I dislike the idea of muscular toddlers running around ingame. It makes no sense and is immersion breaking to me.
As a ten year old Kaelar would be able to slash a grown up Niküa in two with a sword. So they would just have gone extinct long ago. You can't swing a weapon or draw a bow with such tiny limbs. And neither magic nor firearms existed on sanctus to make them able to develop or fight off the other races whatsoever.
We already got 2 beefy races with the ren'kai and dunir.
I think their bodytypes should match their lifestyle. Why would they become smaller rather than taller and Why would they stay as bulky even if they aren't digging holes and mining ore anymore.
Their faces do look nice they way they are though.
I like the models in this thread and the models presented in the livestream. I do not want this race to be limited to the standard Tolkien dwarf look (like the Dunir). As a person who regularly plays small races, I would also like the option, through customization, not through model limits, to make mine look more like a tiny human than a stocky dwarf. I disagree with the argument that all dwarves need to look the same - there is clearly some opportunity for creativity in this race and I am quite happy that skinnier, less hairy options are being explored.
I was expecting to see some Niküa dwarves with a bit more of Vietnam / Indonesia / Philippines flair.
I see you guys so far are showing more pacific Islander style. Will there be more variations?
Yea when I read that this race had Polynesian influences I was expecting a more Southeast Asian look. The bald model on stream looked a lot closer to what I was expecting than this does, so hopefully they can change the models to be closer to that idea.
Overall though I do like the smaller, hobbit-like appearance. I think it adds needed body type/height variety into the racial selections.
Edit: To get more specific, I was expecting a more Samoan/Hawaiian/Maori appearance and this model looks more African/African-American. I think the former fits in more with the lore and description on the wiki and would make more sense, and also just would make for a much cooler island dwarf.
Hmm.... That's not the image they showed on the livestream. I had a fairly clear reaction based on the livestream in a different thread. I will put it at the end of this post because I still feel like it's a bit relevant.
This updated image is.... Better to be sure. It certainly is hitting more polynesian bells in my head. Not that there was a problem with the one on stream not looking polynesian. I hope with sliders the one on stream was possible. But this is much more the 'baseline I had in mind.' There are a few things I feel it currently lacks however.
If the stream image and this image are taken in composite, with the one on stream being seen as the 'body sliders minimized' and this is in the middle. I think I can work with that.
The legs continue to feel off and artificially small. It's not that I don't want this current appearance to be possible. They just currently feel like you could tip them over easily. I think most of this would be small tweaks done by sliders so I would hesitate to suggest any changes to the model you currently posted relative to the legs. When you have a 'clothed' version I think I'll be able to tell a bit better.
As for what I want from the female version?
I still highly recommend looking at Priscilla Tuala-Fata's work as she is one of the more famous female samoan body builders and I know how important reference images can be for 3d modeling.
I imagine her body type would easily suit to Nikuan over all in terms of proportions. Honestly I had thought the female Dunir was Nikuan until Margret clarified. I think the current female Dunir looks slightly less trapezoidal than ideal. The thinner shoulders and rectangular shape suit Nikua better. Good luck with the task of differentiating the two female dwarven races.
Other than that, I guess I don't have much more to say. The updated picture fixed a lot of my critiques. If you haven't seen my previous post please check below as I have a lot of reference images that I still think are quite useful to refining the different options I'd like to see possible. Keep up the great work.
The above images are what should be the Nikua's guiding principle. I think that the Nikua need a little more dwarfishness in their silhouette compared to what we saw this stream. They look more pygmy and less polynesian in terms of proportions.
A polynesian body building competition above gives you a pretty good example ofthe range im talking about. Convert that to the short dwarf model you currently have a. Make them slightly taller and a bit thicker over all. If the dunir are trapezoid, I would like to see a Nikua range between the current thin rectangle (the second to last guy on the right in my pic) and a much wider rectangle (guy on far right.) That range was what the concept art led me to believe would be possible range wise, but right now that doesnt feel possible without maxing out all the sliders. Making them more halfling would make that range impossible.
Over all I am mostly patient here. You all did a fantastic job with Dunir. I have confidence you can get Nikua just right. I hope my above references help.
Edit: here is a less bodybuilder focused image I feel does a good job of showing the range I am talking about as well.
What if they were somewhere between the size of a dwarf and a human - (like teen ager height) and sleek muscled lean mesomorph types that looked like great swimmers - I don’t feel like their build and shape matches that of a sea faring race - a south east asian or Polynesian look would be really cool
I imagined this race being slim, much like gnomes in wow. this just looks like a brown version of the other dwarves, I think they should be skinnier and taller than the other dwarves.
I like the designe so far, but maybe tone the musle a bit down. In Most Fantasy storys dwarf are to dense / heavy for their size to swimm. If the Nikua are a coastal race, biologicaly not being Abel to swimm seems like a terrible prerequesit for seefarers.
I much prefer shorter legs actually. Definitely need a bigger butt as base model. I can definitely see the polynesian aspect and I like it. There is something slightly off though. Maybe it's the muscles? Will need to sleep on it
What do you like about the current art direction of this race?
Polynesian vibes. Like the bone hair ornament. Is there anything you dislike about the art direction for this race, and why?
Atm it feels like a tiny human. Perhaps it could use some more distinctive features.
love it! if we can also make them a little more chubby and add maori tattoos that would be amazing! but I already love the design! all races are looking awesome!
The Niküa race seems to resemble the Dünir race based on height and body shape however they do have a more tribal look to them which leaves me wondering what their background would be based on game Lore.
Not sure if there is some relation to the two races and later on took separate paths and evolved with slight differences.
Good observation This is essentially exactly the case. Both races are Dwarves. Specifically, they're Dünzenkell Dwarves. You can read more about them here, on the wiki
I love the direction of the Niküa. If you're going for that Polynesian vibe, perhaps an option for the epicanthic fold for the eyes ("Asian eyes") could be cool.
I adore the textures on those dreadlock and I hope you offer a large amount of ways they're tied up, cause it's going to make a for a lot of cool characters running around
It's hard to say without seeing a full range of customization options but I definitely think the Nikua are missing some style element.
Maybe something lore-based? For example, if the Nikua value craftsmanship so highly then why is this character wearing fairly rudimentary adornments? Perhaps these options should be more finely crafted.
This is a huge thought right here, my suggestion is Niküa gain more physical alterations like piercings and adornments as they age/gain prestige! The best crafters deserve the best product, maybe even enchanted piercings?!
If the Nikua are representative of gnomes or halflings, I think that there should be a discrepancy in height between the Dunir and the Nikua. Maybe have the average height difference be like 6 inches? Otherwise I really like the look of the Nikua being different from a traditional dwarf.
What do you like about the current art direction of this race?
The skin color, hair, and hair details
Is there anything you dislike about the art direction for this race, and why?
Looks too much like Dunir, i get they are kinda alook alike, but i would never expect nikua (A sea/water race) to be stout and bulky, i would have expected a more atheltic look, with a v chest, small above hips and down to strong legs. If it was truly a halfling like a frodo it looks fine for that, obviously the one pictured has a islander look. Right now i can't distinguish dunir from nikua, im just confused by a islander looking version. I think the base model needs better distinguishing traits. Dwarfs, stout all around, makes sense.. a islander type version i wouldnt image the mid section to be so stout or stout period really, no one is getting stout like a bulky bodybuilder from surfing alone or rowing. In my eyes, doesnt make sense. I think like others have said, they should be slightly taller then the dunir but definitely not human height.
What are your thoughts on what was shown during the livestream for the Niküa race?
I agree, he looks like a gnome.
I would make the legs a little longer, almost proportional, so they look like smaller humans rather than gnomes but still smaller than Dunirs, something like the pigmy tribes of africa but more muscular and less proportional. Also hawaiian or fish/fish scale inspired tattoos or face tattoos resembling Tiki masks.
After consulting with my indigenous friend, I've made a paint over of the current model and included my own character fanart and some references. Since Nikua are heavily inspired by Polynesian culture, I've focused in on some Maori customs, specifically the 'Ta Moko'. Indigenous people don't often have beards, so I feel like the current Nikua model isn't reading too much like a pacific islander. I think the Ta Moko should be the Nikua's equivalent of a beard, considering the tattoos are specifically designed for each person to tell important information about them as a person, and are usually focused around the chin and mouth area. I've also changed the body proportions, and changed some of the features to read more as a indigenous islander such as the hair texture. I hope you consider my feedback and I hope this is helpful!
After consulting with my indigenous friend, I've made a paint over of the current model and included my own character fanart and some references. Since Nikua are heavily inspired by Polynesian culture, I've focused in on some Maori customs, specifically the 'Ta Moko'. Indigenous people don't often have beards, so I feel like the current Nikua model isn't reading too much like a pacific islander. I think the Ta Moko should be the Nikua's equivalent of a beard, considering the tattoos are specifically designed for each person to tell important information about them as a person, and are usually focused around the chin and mouth area. I've also changed the body proportions, and changed some of the features to read more as a indigenous islander such as the hair texture. I hope you consider my feedback and I hope this is helpful!
That fixes a lot of small things that were less apparent to me. This reads a lot more dwarf to me but nothing like Dunir. Also it fixes my issue with the legs hands down.
I am less sure if you can get the 'gnomelike' model we saw on stream with sliders if this were the starting point, where as the current screenshots in op definitely could. I definitely want the current screen shot to be in range of what is possible with customization. It's a difficult balance.
I'd be ok with tattoos but only if they consulted actual maori people on what they are comfortable with and what would make a good representation. I'd also still like facial hair options.
After consulting with my indigenous friend, I've made a paint over of the current model and included my own character fanart and some references. Since Nikua are heavily inspired by Polynesian culture, I've focused in on some Maori customs, specifically the 'Ta Moko'. Indigenous people don't often have beards, so I feel like the current Nikua model isn't reading too much like a pacific islander. I think the Ta Moko should be the Nikua's equivalent of a beard, considering the tattoos are specifically designed for each person to tell important information about them as a person, and are usually focused around the chin and mouth area. I've also changed the body proportions, and changed some of the features to read more as a indigenous islander such as the hair texture. I hope you consider my feedback and I hope this is helpful!
This is awesome dude! Definitely the right direction - I hope Intrepid takes a good look at your post.
I'm absolutely in love with the hair style, texture and skin tone on this model. I even dig the body hair. I've never seen ethnic cultures represented like this in an mmorpg. Thank you so very much!
I want to second all of the suggestions about tattoos. They are a very important element of Polynesian culture. Literally the perfect opportunity for you to further distinguish the Nikua from the Dunir. Give us a huge variety to pick from and make them customizable. It would be super cool to have one specific race with significantly more unique tattoo options as a defining part of its character creation.
Comments
As a ten year old Kaelar would be able to slash a grown up Niküa in two with a sword. So they would just have gone extinct long ago. You can't swing a weapon or draw a bow with such tiny limbs. And neither magic nor firearms existed on sanctus to make them able to develop or fight off the other races whatsoever.
We already got 2 beefy races with the ren'kai and dunir.
I think their bodytypes should match their lifestyle. Why would they become smaller rather than taller and Why would they stay as bulky even if they aren't digging holes and mining ore anymore.
Their faces do look nice they way they are though.
Yea when I read that this race had Polynesian influences I was expecting a more Southeast Asian look. The bald model on stream looked a lot closer to what I was expecting than this does, so hopefully they can change the models to be closer to that idea.
Overall though I do like the smaller, hobbit-like appearance. I think it adds needed body type/height variety into the racial selections.
Edit: To get more specific, I was expecting a more Samoan/Hawaiian/Maori appearance and this model looks more African/African-American. I think the former fits in more with the lore and description on the wiki and would make more sense, and also just would make for a much cooler island dwarf.
This updated image is.... Better to be sure. It certainly is hitting more polynesian bells in my head. Not that there was a problem with the one on stream not looking polynesian. I hope with sliders the one on stream was possible. But this is much more the 'baseline I had in mind.' There are a few things I feel it currently lacks however.
If the stream image and this image are taken in composite, with the one on stream being seen as the 'body sliders minimized' and this is in the middle. I think I can work with that.
The legs continue to feel off and artificially small. It's not that I don't want this current appearance to be possible. They just currently feel like you could tip them over easily. I think most of this would be small tweaks done by sliders so I would hesitate to suggest any changes to the model you currently posted relative to the legs. When you have a 'clothed' version I think I'll be able to tell a bit better.
As for what I want from the female version?
I still highly recommend looking at Priscilla Tuala-Fata's work as she is one of the more famous female samoan body builders and I know how important reference images can be for 3d modeling.
I imagine her body type would easily suit to Nikuan over all in terms of proportions. Honestly I had thought the female Dunir was Nikuan until Margret clarified. I think the current female Dunir looks slightly less trapezoidal than ideal. The thinner shoulders and rectangular shape suit Nikua better. Good luck with the task of differentiating the two female dwarven races.
Other than that, I guess I don't have much more to say. The updated picture fixed a lot of my critiques. If you haven't seen my previous post please check below as I have a lot of reference images that I still think are quite useful to refining the different options I'd like to see possible. Keep up the great work.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=Yhr9WpjaDzw
Agreed!
Butt sliders FTW!
I much prefer shorter legs actually. Definitely need a bigger butt as base model. I can definitely see the polynesian aspect and I like it. There is something slightly off though. Maybe it's the muscles? Will need to sleep on it
Polynesian vibes. Like the bone hair ornament.
Is there anything you dislike about the art direction for this race, and why?
Atm it feels like a tiny human. Perhaps it could use some more distinctive features.
I was thinking they should be either slimer (due to the less strenous beachlife) or extra thicc (for the same reason and for more Polynesian flavor).
Good observation
I adore the textures on those dreadlock and I hope you offer a large amount of ways they're tied up, cause it's going to make a for a lot of cool characters running around
https://youtube.com/watch?v=Yhr9WpjaDzw
This is a huge thought right here, my suggestion is Niküa gain more physical alterations like piercings and adornments as they age/gain prestige! The best crafters deserve the best product, maybe even enchanted piercings?!
The skin color, hair, and hair details
Is there anything you dislike about the art direction for this race, and why?
Looks too much like Dunir, i get they are kinda alook alike, but i would never expect nikua (A sea/water race) to be stout and bulky, i would have expected a more atheltic look, with a v chest, small above hips and down to strong legs. If it was truly a halfling like a frodo it looks fine for that, obviously the one pictured has a islander look. Right now i can't distinguish dunir from nikua, im just confused by a islander looking version. I think the base model needs better distinguishing traits. Dwarfs, stout all around, makes sense.. a islander type version i wouldnt image the mid section to be so stout or stout period really, no one is getting stout like a bulky bodybuilder from surfing alone or rowing. In my eyes, doesnt make sense. I think like others have said, they should be slightly taller then the dunir but definitely not human height.
What are your thoughts on what was shown during the livestream for the Niküa race?
I agree, he looks like a gnome.
But for the Niküa I actually really liked the skinnier, basically a small human/elf like appearance from the Beastmasters of Niküa cosmetics pack
That fixes a lot of small things that were less apparent to me. This reads a lot more dwarf to me but nothing like Dunir. Also it fixes my issue with the legs hands down.
I am less sure if you can get the 'gnomelike' model we saw on stream with sliders if this were the starting point, where as the current screenshots in op definitely could. I definitely want the current screen shot to be in range of what is possible with customization. It's a difficult balance.
I'd be ok with tattoos but only if they consulted actual maori people on what they are comfortable with and what would make a good representation. I'd also still like facial hair options.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=Yhr9WpjaDzw
This is awesome dude! Definitely the right direction - I hope Intrepid takes a good look at your post.
I won't use them because they aren't my cup o tea
But I love them
They are cool and I can't wait to see them