I think another important thing to consider is you only need to caravan if your are moving your materials from point a to b, in most instances people will likely start gathering and focusing on resources centralized to their primary node, meaning they wont need to caravan at all.
My biggest worry is caravans in general. It seems like the economy is very important in AoC and caravans are going to be the main driver behind it. From what I understand players could theoretically stunt a nodes growth or inhibit a siege by stopping caravans. I fear that this will cause the game to become a caravan babysitting/camping game, or that everyone will find it so tedious they will just ignore the system all together.
When you want to make a merchant run given the lack of fast travel you will be making the journey from a-b regardless so using the caravan and timing it with a few friends or mercs will be a part of the rp aspect or you can brave it alone. I don't think there will be many instances when you will be simply sending caravans across the world unattended and if you are you accept that risk, unless you are gathering far from home and stockpiling in a nearby node, but even then it would make sense to escort the resources home when you are done your gathering.
As for raiding caravans to prevent a node leveling or important siege equipment from arriving I think that is actually a tactic that should be encouraged. imagine 4/5 metropolis have been made and you and another t5 node are nearing the final stretch it would be silly to simply let resources get to your rival city have supplies arriving consistently you should be actively working to undermine them. For sieges it seems obvious to me that you would need to defend those en route, why would I let someone bring a trebuchet to my doorstep when I can destroy it in open pvp with no corruption risk. As well as undermine the enemy siege in the process.
I think caravans will likely be far less frequent then you fear I think well likely see early on smaller caravans then as nodes develop people organize larger scheduled caravan runs which promise safety and consistency, as well as smaller runs which try to out race these large slow runs. Or see guilds take on the role of Caravan Guard where for a fee they'll escort your goods if you need to keep gathering or working away from home
This is a great comment!
Like others have said, it's hard to make a judgment until it can actually be played and experienced first-hand.
As this comment states, there are plenty of reasons for the system to exist and thrive. The example of two nodes battling for supremacy is a great example of why the caravan system adds fantastic depth to the node system. Really, they complement each other well.
Of course, once we get feedback on the system during testing, there are elements to it that may adapt and change ^_^
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ILLPeonUMember, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
My biggest concern in general is how the market will work, they claim we will make much more money by delivering goods from far away into nodes that are void of such materials. That won't stop players from constantly undercutting prices into the ground and undervalue the whole concept of the caravan system, especially if you get charged silver by placing items on the market before they sell. IE: Place large bulk pay 5g, get undercut right away, nothing sells, lose 5g , still sitting on inventory.
Players are our own worst enemies when it comes the the economy. We must figure out a way to have some sort of minimum price that a product can fall to.
TwitchTV Streamer: The Hidden Dagger Inn Saturday's 5:00 PM Cst
I think another important thing to consider is you only need to caravan if your are moving your materials from point a to b, in most instances people will likely start gathering and focusing on resources centralized to their primary node, meaning they wont need to caravan at all.
My biggest worry is caravans in general. It seems like the economy is very important in AoC and caravans are going to be the main driver behind it. From what I understand players could theoretically stunt a nodes growth or inhibit a siege by stopping caravans. I fear that this will cause the game to become a caravan babysitting/camping game, or that everyone will find it so tedious they will just ignore the system all together.
When you want to make a merchant run given the lack of fast travel you will be making the journey from a-b regardless so using the caravan and timing it with a few friends or mercs will be a part of the rp aspect or you can brave it alone. I don't think there will be many instances when you will be simply sending caravans across the world unattended and if you are you accept that risk, unless you are gathering far from home and stockpiling in a nearby node, but even then it would make sense to escort the resources home when you are done your gathering.
As for raiding caravans to prevent a node leveling or important siege equipment from arriving I think that is actually a tactic that should be encouraged. imagine 4/5 metropolis have been made and you and another t5 node are nearing the final stretch it would be silly to simply let resources get to your rival city have supplies arriving consistently you should be actively working to undermine them. For sieges it seems obvious to me that you would need to defend those en route, why would I let someone bring a trebuchet to my doorstep when I can destroy it in open pvp with no corruption risk. As well as undermine the enemy siege in the process.
I think caravans will likely be far less frequent then you fear I think well likely see early on smaller caravans then as nodes develop people organize larger scheduled caravan runs which promise safety and consistency, as well as smaller runs which try to out race these large slow runs. Or see guilds take on the role of Caravan Guard where for a fee they'll escort your goods if you need to keep gathering or working away from home
This is a great comment!
Like others have said, it's hard to make a judgment until it can actually be played and experienced first-hand.
As this comment states, there are plenty of reasons for the system to exist and thrive. The example of two nodes battling for supremacy is a great example of why the caravan system adds fantastic depth to the node system. Really, they complement each other well.
Of course, once we get feedback on the system during testing, there are elements to it that may adapt and change ^_^
100% I can't make a judgement until I see it and experience it. I love the idea of caravans, what they bring to the game and value a well thought out implementation.
At present, and based on what's been shared, I can only speculate what may or not happen, given all the moving parts. Id say most of the concern likely revolves around the use of personal caravans, as that, on the surface, results in the largest direct personal loss to a player, perceived as a loss of time invested.
If not done so already, it is a mecessity to figure out how to create a need for caravans to be used as opposed to not, in a manner that is useful and fun, and to generate scenarios where there is a need to raid caravans, also useful and fun. I can come up with many from whats been shared, although I think some tweaks are required.
I personally feel capturing a caravan and hauling it off for your own is a better alternative than destroying it and getting a portion of the loot. Now the guy who's caravan was attacked has a chance to retake it.... I also feel the goods being transported, should the caravan be destroyed, should remain where they are, requiring another caravan to arrive to pick it up, with a percentage of goods being destroyed. Furthermore, if you intend to fully destroy whats on a caravan, you should have the option to burn the loot pile afterwards.
I actually would not mind an exploration of removing the whole system from the game and replacing it with things like mount upgrades that make it visually obvious that someone is a trader. Then that person can hire people to protect them or the guild can allocate members to be protectors of guild merchants.
^ This is essentially what a caravan is though...
Ashes is intended to be a social game, you will have to strategize with your friends/guild mates to plan when to send out your caravan. This is something I am looking forward to.
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akabearMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Wonder if you will be able to schedule caraven sending.. ie schedule an after peak player count delivery?_
My biggest worry is caravans in general. It seems like the economy is very important in AoC and caravans are going to be the main driver behind it. From what I understand players could theoretically stunt a nodes growth or inhibit a siege by stopping caravans. I fear that this will cause the game to become a caravan babysitting/camping game, or that everyone will find it so tedious they will just ignore the system all together. I really don't want this game to become a caravan simulator. I actually would not mind an exploration of removing the whole system from the game and replacing it with things like mount upgrades that make it visually obvious that someone is a trader. Then that person can hire people to protect them or the guild can allocate members to be protectors of guild merchants. This would leave the importance of trade value to the player. Right now the caravan system feels too complex and tedious while also being so important you have to interreact with it even if you don't want to, which has been a problem with many systems in other MMO games.
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DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
I think another important thing to consider is you only need to caravan if your are moving your materials from point a to b, in most instances people will likely start gathering and focusing on resources centralized to their primary node, meaning they wont need to caravan at all.
My biggest worry is caravans in general. It seems like the economy is very important in AoC and caravans are going to be the main driver behind it. From what I understand players could theoretically stunt a nodes growth or inhibit a siege by stopping caravans. I fear that this will cause the game to become a caravan babysitting/camping game, or that everyone will find it so tedious they will just ignore the system all together.
When you want to make a merchant run given the lack of fast travel you will be making the journey from a-b regardless so using the caravan and timing it with a few friends or mercs will be a part of the rp aspect or you can brave it alone. I don't think there will be many instances when you will be simply sending caravans across the world unattended and if you are you accept that risk, unless you are gathering far from home and stockpiling in a nearby node, but even then it would make sense to escort the resources home when you are done your gathering.
As for raiding caravans to prevent a node leveling or important siege equipment from arriving I think that is actually a tactic that should be encouraged. imagine 4/5 metropolis have been made and you and another t5 node are nearing the final stretch it would be silly to simply let resources get to your rival city have supplies arriving consistently you should be actively working to undermine them. For sieges it seems obvious to me that you would need to defend those en route, why would I let someone bring a trebuchet to my doorstep when I can destroy it in open pvp with no corruption risk. As well as undermine the enemy siege in the process.
I think caravans will likely be far less frequent then you fear I think well likely see early on smaller caravans then as nodes develop people organize larger scheduled caravan runs which promise safety and consistency, as well as smaller runs which try to out race these large slow runs. Or see guilds take on the role of Caravan Guard where for a fee they'll escort your goods if you need to keep gathering or working away from home
This is a great comment!
Like others have said, it's hard to make a judgment until it can actually be played and experienced first-hand.
As this comment states, there are plenty of reasons for the system to exist and thrive. The example of two nodes battling for supremacy is a great example of why the caravan system adds fantastic depth to the node system. Really, they complement each other well.
Of course, once we get feedback on the system during testing, there are elements to it that may adapt and change ^_^
i certainly agree that the caravan system is a great addition to the Node and Castle Systems.
My primary concern would be in regards to personal caravans and their lack of usage we will see in the game.
It just doesnt seem like increased carrying capacity would ever offset the increased risk of being attacked.
In a world ruled by scarcity (as Steven has mentioned), why should the benefit of a personal caravan ever be based on carrying capacity? Rare Materials will be so rare, that you never get enough to fill up a caravan. Common Materials would still require dozens of hours to farming to get enough materials to make a caravan worthwhile. Who is gonna mine rocks for 50+ hours to then make a caravan?
So far, i just dont see the why anybody would want to use a personal caravan to transport goods. How they are meant to get enough materials to fill it (without the base inventory being excruciatingly small) and what the purpose of personal caravans would be, if they wont be used in the first place.
I understand your worry, but I think until we see the caravan system in action, its too soon to call for complete changes.
I think the whole Gathering/Processing/Crafting/Caravan system looks interesting, and I hope it works, but seems so complicated that I wonder if it could fall apart in practicality.
For example:
Since we have to choose to be only a Gatherer, Processor, or Crafter; I can see a huge bottle-neck in the early start of the game for both Processors and Crafters since they cannot gather their own materials.
I feel what is going to happen is that once the game starts, EVERYONE will be gatherers at first since there will be no supply of materials to process or craft with, then after a few weeks/month or so, some will likely break off into processing once their is supply up. Oh but then either the nodes will need to be leveled up and have processing equipment OR those players have to have a freehold (Which is hard to get). Then once processed materials are readily available will others go into crafting.
ALL of that is only if you can switch between gathering/processing/crafting on one character. If not, then you will have crafters and processors sitting around for a while, twiddling their thumbs until gathered mats start coming in from the gatherers.
Then you have the risk of carrying gathering materials on you, or in a caravan...
Its a pretty interesting system and I do hope it works well. I just see that there is a chance for it to not work out like the developers are hoping since there are soooo many moving parts to the system.
I don't think so. Once the game STARTS, there will be no auction houses, just a bunch of people forming groups to help each other out. I imagine since in the first day there will be an encampment that we'll see people processing materials from the getgo.
Correct me if i'm wrong, but I think the basic level processing stations are available right away, they just upgrade in ability with things like freeholds. Not necessarily their ability to process certain goods, rather the amount of goods that you can throw in and how fast it processes it. This is what I remember Steven saying at least. I'd imagine this same thing applies to crafting. This all seems like a very rookie mistake in game development if they didn't design the system like this, which i really doubt considering what I've heard from Steven.
I see crafters and processors twiddling their thumbs for maybe a couple hours after launch. Which I doubt will really aggravate enough people that planned on going processing or crafting to switch to gathering, but i could be wrong lol.
I think another important thing to consider is you only need to caravan if your are moving your materials from point a to b, in most instances people will likely start gathering and focusing on resources centralized to their primary node, meaning they wont need to caravan at all.
My biggest worry is caravans in general. It seems like the economy is very important in AoC and caravans are going to be the main driver behind it. From what I understand players could theoretically stunt a nodes growth or inhibit a siege by stopping caravans. I fear that this will cause the game to become a caravan babysitting/camping game, or that everyone will find it so tedious they will just ignore the system all together.
When you want to make a merchant run given the lack of fast travel you will be making the journey from a-b regardless so using the caravan and timing it with a few friends or mercs will be a part of the rp aspect or you can brave it alone. I don't think there will be many instances when you will be simply sending caravans across the world unattended and if you are you accept that risk, unless you are gathering far from home and stockpiling in a nearby node, but even then it would make sense to escort the resources home when you are done your gathering.
As for raiding caravans to prevent a node leveling or important siege equipment from arriving I think that is actually a tactic that should be encouraged. imagine 4/5 metropolis have been made and you and another t5 node are nearing the final stretch it would be silly to simply let resources get to your rival city have supplies arriving consistently you should be actively working to undermine them. For sieges it seems obvious to me that you would need to defend those en route, why would I let someone bring a trebuchet to my doorstep when I can destroy it in open pvp with no corruption risk. As well as undermine the enemy siege in the process.
I think caravans will likely be far less frequent then you fear I think well likely see early on smaller caravans then as nodes develop people organize larger scheduled caravan runs which promise safety and consistency, as well as smaller runs which try to out race these large slow runs. Or see guilds take on the role of Caravan Guard where for a fee they'll escort your goods if you need to keep gathering or working away from home
This is a great comment!
Like others have said, it's hard to make a judgment until it can actually be played and experienced first-hand.
As this comment states, there are plenty of reasons for the system to exist and thrive. The example of two nodes battling for supremacy is a great example of why the caravan system adds fantastic depth to the node system. Really, they complement each other well.
Of course, once we get feedback on the system during testing, there are elements to it that may adapt and change ^_^
100% I can't make a judgement until I see it and experience it. I love the idea of caravans, what they bring to the game and value a well thought out implementation.
At present, and based on what's been shared, I can only speculate what may or not happen, given all the moving parts. Id say most of the concern likely revolves around the use of personal caravans, as that, on the surface, results in the largest direct personal loss to a player, perceived as a loss of time invested.
If not done so already, it is a mecessity to figure out how to create a need for caravans to be used as opposed to not, in a manner that is useful and fun, and to generate scenarios where there is a need to raid caravans, also useful and fun. I can come up with many from whats been shared, although I think some tweaks are required.
I personally feel capturing a caravan and hauling it off for your own is a better alternative than destroying it and getting a portion of the loot. Now the guy who's caravan was attacked has a chance to retake it.... I also feel the goods being transported, should the caravan be destroyed, should remain where they are, requiring another caravan to arrive to pick it up, with a percentage of goods being destroyed. Furthermore, if you intend to fully destroy whats on a caravan, you should have the option to burn the loot pile afterwards.
The wiki states caravans have ONE HUNDRED times the carrying weight of a person. Now my guess is they have fine tuned the system well enough that you are going to need to transport 100 times the carrying weight of a person to another node quite frequently to progress it.
The alternative is using 10 mules or 100 people. I think it's very possible people will opt into using mules and people instead of caravans most of the time, given the likely usual dramatic decrease in loss if some shitheads decide to come raid your supply line. Given of course that your mules or people all take different paths.
I do really like the Idea of being able to capture a caravan though, I think that ones a no brainer. And with a 100 times the carrying weight of a person, the things dropped from a destroyed caravan will naturally require a caravan to pick up, or 10 mules, or a 100 players, or 1 player making a 100 trips, or 2 players... you get the point lol.
I think another important thing to consider is you only need to caravan if your are moving your materials from point a to b, in most instances people will likely start gathering and focusing on resources centralized to their primary node, meaning they wont need to caravan at all.
My biggest worry is caravans in general. It seems like the economy is very important in AoC and caravans are going to be the main driver behind it. From what I understand players could theoretically stunt a nodes growth or inhibit a siege by stopping caravans. I fear that this will cause the game to become a caravan babysitting/camping game, or that everyone will find it so tedious they will just ignore the system all together.
When you want to make a merchant run given the lack of fast travel you will be making the journey from a-b regardless so using the caravan and timing it with a few friends or mercs will be a part of the rp aspect or you can brave it alone. I don't think there will be many instances when you will be simply sending caravans across the world unattended and if you are you accept that risk, unless you are gathering far from home and stockpiling in a nearby node, but even then it would make sense to escort the resources home when you are done your gathering.
As for raiding caravans to prevent a node leveling or important siege equipment from arriving I think that is actually a tactic that should be encouraged. imagine 4/5 metropolis have been made and you and another t5 node are nearing the final stretch it would be silly to simply let resources get to your rival city have supplies arriving consistently you should be actively working to undermine them. For sieges it seems obvious to me that you would need to defend those en route, why would I let someone bring a trebuchet to my doorstep when I can destroy it in open pvp with no corruption risk. As well as undermine the enemy siege in the process.
I think caravans will likely be far less frequent then you fear I think well likely see early on smaller caravans then as nodes develop people organize larger scheduled caravan runs which promise safety and consistency, as well as smaller runs which try to out race these large slow runs. Or see guilds take on the role of Caravan Guard where for a fee they'll escort your goods if you need to keep gathering or working away from home
This is a great comment!
Like others have said, it's hard to make a judgment until it can actually be played and experienced first-hand.
As this comment states, there are plenty of reasons for the system to exist and thrive. The example of two nodes battling for supremacy is a great example of why the caravan system adds fantastic depth to the node system. Really, they complement each other well.
Of course, once we get feedback on the system during testing, there are elements to it that may adapt and change ^_^
100% I can't make a judgement until I see it and experience it. I love the idea of caravans, what they bring to the game and value a well thought out implementation.
At present, and based on what's been shared, I can only speculate what may or not happen, given all the moving parts. Id say most of the concern likely revolves around the use of personal caravans, as that, on the surface, results in the largest direct personal loss to a player, perceived as a loss of time invested.
If not done so already, it is a mecessity to figure out how to create a need for caravans to be used as opposed to not, in a manner that is useful and fun, and to generate scenarios where there is a need to raid caravans, also useful and fun. I can come up with many from whats been shared, although I think some tweaks are required.
I personally feel capturing a caravan and hauling it off for your own is a better alternative than destroying it and getting a portion of the loot. Now the guy who's caravan was attacked has a chance to retake it.... I also feel the goods being transported, should the caravan be destroyed, should remain where they are, requiring another caravan to arrive to pick it up, with a percentage of goods being destroyed. Furthermore, if you intend to fully destroy whats on a caravan, you should have the option to burn the loot pile afterwards.
The wiki states caravans have ONE HUNDRED times the carrying weight of a person. Now my guess is they have fine tuned the system well enough that you are going to need to transport 100 times the carrying weight of a person to another node quite frequently to progress it.
The alternative is using 10 mules or 100 people. I think it's very possible people will opt into using mules and people instead of caravans most of the time, given the likely usual dramatic decrease in loss if some shitheads decide to come raid your supply line. Given of course that your mules or people all take different paths.
I do really like the Idea of being able to capture a caravan though, I think that ones a no brainer. And with a 100 times the carrying weight of a person, the things dropped from a destroyed caravan will naturally require a caravan to pick up, or 10 mules, or a 100 players, or 1 player making a 100 trips, or 2 players... you get the point lol.
My issue lies with what players are allowed to carry on their person. Or in their mules backpacks.
Size should matter.
If you want to carry 200 flower petals, that seems like a resource that is more easily carried around in large quantities and not too heavy to shove in your backpacks. Herbalism would be one of those skills that you likely wouldnt need a caravan for, ever.
For stone, various sized deposits should determine how large of a chunk of stone you can haul away in your backpack or in backpacks on your mule...caravans should absolutely 100% be required to transport large quarry stones. Chop it into smaller pieces later in your shop if you need smaller chunks for something, or leave it larger for wall/building construction. I personally find it odd if massive walls are constructed out of a 100000000 tiny pieces of stone, harvested by millions of player trips to the quarry. Its like we are using concrete as opposed to sectioning out a large portion of stone and shipping that back.
Not only would deposits of certain rare materials be valuable, but this would also add in an additional value, due to the scarity of the deposit size. If the only deposit large enough is between 2 nodes, but several small deposits are near, and each node requires larger chunks of that deposit to progress, you'd have to fight over that deposit.
Same can be done with trees and their size. Especially if they have a life cycle and we can harvest them at various periods of their growth cycle.
Smaller items requiring smaller pieces of material types can be carried on you...but the big stuff should require caravans. So its a little iffy for me when it seems like you can just make a lot of trips solo, or with your mule, to accomplish the same as a caravan, if its based on quantity alone.
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akabearMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
edited September 2022
Breaking the caravan threat down, say:
2-3min for player and/or caravan to travel between nodes
Random spawn starting position to give head start
30sec to1min for pvp group to find a caravan providing a group is out there on the ready already.
Then the window for pvp will be 90sec to 2min before the caravan reaches its final destination
Short event
Does not sound like much of a gauntlet run..
If any of above is even vaguely close, it feels like it will be luck rather than good management that a group out to take out a caravan will be around in time.
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akabearMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Perhaps only the longer runs will be wrought with threat
2-3min for player and/or caravan to travel between nodes
Random spawn starting position to give head start
30sec to1min for pvp group to find a caravan providing a group is out there on the ready already.
Then the window for pvp will be 90sec to 2min before the caravan reaches its final destination
Short event
Does not sound like much of a gauntlet run..
If any of above is even vaguely close, it feels like it will be luck rather than good management that a group out to take out a caravan will be around in time.
Should also account for time of day and location of the inital caravan start and finish position - if a massive guild is also doing the caravan. there are several more factors to.
2-3min for player and/or caravan to travel between nodes
Random spawn starting position to give head start
30sec to1min for pvp group to find a caravan providing a group is out there on the ready already.
Then the window for pvp will be 90sec to 2min before the caravan reaches its final destination
Short event
Does not sound like much of a gauntlet run..
If any of above is even vaguely close, it feels like it will be luck rather than good management that a group out to take out a caravan will be around in time.
it takes 3.5 Minutes Mounted from side of a node to side of a neighbouring node
it takes 5 Minutes Mounted from center of a node to center of the neighbouring node
Considering, that they hinted at mounts being 50-70% faster than you are on foot and the caravans being as fast as people on foot or slower (judging from past videos).
It would take between 5 and 5.67 Minutes for a caravan to travel from the edge of one node to the edge of the neighbouring node (which might be built out or not).
um while moving from node from the center of a node a to let's say node B if you were mounted
it would take you roughly uh three and a half minutes or so,
I'm sorry, actually, take you five minutes from Center to center, from side to side it would take you about three and a half minutes
I'm just worried that caravans won't be useful ENOUGH to be a common occurance. I mean, cities/nodes need certain ones for maintenance/upkeep/advancement - but how often can we really expect to see them, otherwise?
How often will it be that vital for a merchant to pick up THAT BIG of a stack of materials in one town that it will be worth the risk of running a small caravan to move the goods to their home town, as opposed to making several trips with a smaller load on your back?
I think this depends on players. Tier 1 and Tier 2 resources will probably not be very valuable.
I would be tempted to carry Tier 1 even alone if I have my own caravan, instead of making the same trip 10 times with a mule. But should I do that? Maybe it's not worth paying the price for higher safety.
But if I have Tier 4 resources...
If people know each-other and I have the reputation of making high quality gear, I don't want to get the reputation that I am also using my mule to transport Tier 4 resources to save money.
What if the caravan drivers themselves leak the information to bandits?
If I have the gold to buy Tier 4 resources to fill a caravan, resources which due to their rarity might come from many different players, I'll pay for the caravan too and add the price to the final product. Or I will not buy from that node if I cannot afford the caravan.
Alternatively, if I have good connections, maybe those bandits will bring me the Tier 4 resources. And those bandits will not want to see me running with a mule between nodes either.
September 12. 2022: Being naked can also be used to bring a skilled artisan to different freeholds... Don't summon family!
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akabearMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
2-3min for player and/or caravan to travel between nodes
Random spawn starting position to give head start
30sec to1min for pvp group to find a caravan providing a group is out there on the ready already.
Then the window for pvp will be 90sec to 2min before the caravan reaches its final destination
Short event
Does not sound like much of a gauntlet run..
If any of above is even vaguely close, it feels like it will be luck rather than good management that a group out to take out a caravan will be around in time.
it takes 3.5 Minutes Mounted from side of a node to side of a neighbouring node
it takes 5 Minutes Mounted from center of a node to center of the neighbouring node
Considering, that they hinted at mounts being 50-70% faster than you are on foot and the caravans being as fast as people on foot or slower (judging from past videos).
It would take between 5 and 5.67 Minutes for a caravan to travel from the edge of one node to the edge of the neighbouring node (which might be built out or not).
um while moving from node from the center of a node a to let's say node B if you were mounted
it would take you roughly uh three and a half minutes or so,
I'm sorry, actually, take you five minutes from Center to center, from side to side it would take you about three and a half minutes
Ah.. was hoping someone would step in with fuller info.. now if the potential engagement period extends to min 5 ish min.. then still short but more of a risk/reward venture
Ah.. was hoping someone would step in with fuller info.. now if the potential engagement period extends to min 5 ish min.. then still short but more of a risk/reward venture
That is just from node to node. The trip might be long. How long will you wait before you start the next segment of the trip?
September 12. 2022: Being naked can also be used to bring a skilled artisan to different freeholds... Don't summon family!
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akabearMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Yeah.. good point.. I hope there are lesser needs from adjacent nodes and more distant needs at the ends of the map encouraging longer ventures to pass goods to and from the far reaches
I would also hope the cost to launch a caravan remains the same or even costs more from lower level nodes to make a single longer journey a lot more enticing/ rewarding than a string of single node to node runs.
Or even things like npc guards you attach to your caravan journey be a 1 time use.
Comments
This is a great comment!
Like others have said, it's hard to make a judgment until it can actually be played and experienced first-hand.
As this comment states, there are plenty of reasons for the system to exist and thrive. The example of two nodes battling for supremacy is a great example of why the caravan system adds fantastic depth to the node system. Really, they complement each other well.
Of course, once we get feedback on the system during testing, there are elements to it that may adapt and change ^_^
Players are our own worst enemies when it comes the the economy. We must figure out a way to have some sort of minimum price that a product can fall to.
https://youtube.com/@TheHiddenDaggerInn
100% I can't make a judgement until I see it and experience it. I love the idea of caravans, what they bring to the game and value a well thought out implementation.
At present, and based on what's been shared, I can only speculate what may or not happen, given all the moving parts. Id say most of the concern likely revolves around the use of personal caravans, as that, on the surface, results in the largest direct personal loss to a player, perceived as a loss of time invested.
If not done so already, it is a mecessity to figure out how to create a need for caravans to be used as opposed to not, in a manner that is useful and fun, and to generate scenarios where there is a need to raid caravans, also useful and fun. I can come up with many from whats been shared, although I think some tweaks are required.
I personally feel capturing a caravan and hauling it off for your own is a better alternative than destroying it and getting a portion of the loot. Now the guy who's caravan was attacked has a chance to retake it.... I also feel the goods being transported, should the caravan be destroyed, should remain where they are, requiring another caravan to arrive to pick it up, with a percentage of goods being destroyed. Furthermore, if you intend to fully destroy whats on a caravan, you should have the option to burn the loot pile afterwards.
^ This is essentially what a caravan is though...
Ashes is intended to be a social game, you will have to strategize with your friends/guild mates to plan when to send out your caravan. This is something I am looking forward to.
i certainly agree that the caravan system is a great addition to the Node and Castle Systems.
My primary concern would be in regards to personal caravans and their lack of usage we will see in the game.
So far, i just dont see the why anybody would want to use a personal caravan to transport goods. How they are meant to get enough materials to fill it (without the base inventory being excruciatingly small) and what the purpose of personal caravans would be, if they wont be used in the first place.
I don't think so. Once the game STARTS, there will be no auction houses, just a bunch of people forming groups to help each other out. I imagine since in the first day there will be an encampment that we'll see people processing materials from the getgo.
Correct me if i'm wrong, but I think the basic level processing stations are available right away, they just upgrade in ability with things like freeholds. Not necessarily their ability to process certain goods, rather the amount of goods that you can throw in and how fast it processes it. This is what I remember Steven saying at least. I'd imagine this same thing applies to crafting. This all seems like a very rookie mistake in game development if they didn't design the system like this, which i really doubt considering what I've heard from Steven.
I see crafters and processors twiddling their thumbs for maybe a couple hours after launch. Which I doubt will really aggravate enough people that planned on going processing or crafting to switch to gathering, but i could be wrong lol.
The wiki states caravans have ONE HUNDRED times the carrying weight of a person. Now my guess is they have fine tuned the system well enough that you are going to need to transport 100 times the carrying weight of a person to another node quite frequently to progress it.
The alternative is using 10 mules or 100 people. I think it's very possible people will opt into using mules and people instead of caravans most of the time, given the likely usual dramatic decrease in loss if some shitheads decide to come raid your supply line. Given of course that your mules or people all take different paths.
I do really like the Idea of being able to capture a caravan though, I think that ones a no brainer. And with a 100 times the carrying weight of a person, the things dropped from a destroyed caravan will naturally require a caravan to pick up, or 10 mules, or a 100 players, or 1 player making a 100 trips, or 2 players... you get the point lol.
My issue lies with what players are allowed to carry on their person. Or in their mules backpacks.
Size should matter.
If you want to carry 200 flower petals, that seems like a resource that is more easily carried around in large quantities and not too heavy to shove in your backpacks. Herbalism would be one of those skills that you likely wouldnt need a caravan for, ever.
For stone, various sized deposits should determine how large of a chunk of stone you can haul away in your backpack or in backpacks on your mule...caravans should absolutely 100% be required to transport large quarry stones. Chop it into smaller pieces later in your shop if you need smaller chunks for something, or leave it larger for wall/building construction. I personally find it odd if massive walls are constructed out of a 100000000 tiny pieces of stone, harvested by millions of player trips to the quarry. Its like we are using concrete as opposed to sectioning out a large portion of stone and shipping that back.
Not only would deposits of certain rare materials be valuable, but this would also add in an additional value, due to the scarity of the deposit size. If the only deposit large enough is between 2 nodes, but several small deposits are near, and each node requires larger chunks of that deposit to progress, you'd have to fight over that deposit.
Same can be done with trees and their size. Especially if they have a life cycle and we can harvest them at various periods of their growth cycle.
Smaller items requiring smaller pieces of material types can be carried on you...but the big stuff should require caravans. So its a little iffy for me when it seems like you can just make a lot of trips solo, or with your mule, to accomplish the same as a caravan, if its based on quantity alone.
- 2-3min for player and/or caravan to travel between nodes
- Random spawn starting position to give head start
- 30sec to1min for pvp group to find a caravan providing a group is out there on the ready already.
- Then the window for pvp will be 90sec to 2min before the caravan reaches its final destination
- Short event
Does not sound like much of a gauntlet run..If any of above is even vaguely close, it feels like it will be luck rather than good management that a group out to take out a caravan will be around in time.
Should also account for time of day and location of the inital caravan start and finish position - if a massive guild is also doing the caravan. there are several more factors to.
your math is off @akabear
it takes 3.5 Minutes Mounted from side of a node to side of a neighbouring node
it takes 5 Minutes Mounted from center of a node to center of the neighbouring node
Considering, that they hinted at mounts being 50-70% faster than you are on foot and the caravans being as fast as people on foot or slower (judging from past videos).
It would take between 5 and 5.67 Minutes for a caravan to travel from the edge of one node to the edge of the neighbouring node (which might be built out or not).
The information on the wiki is incorrect, in case you have used that values.
Source:
55:45 - 56:05
Transcript:
I would be tempted to carry Tier 1 even alone if I have my own caravan, instead of making the same trip 10 times with a mule. But should I do that? Maybe it's not worth paying the price for higher safety.
But if I have Tier 4 resources...
If people know each-other and I have the reputation of making high quality gear, I don't want to get the reputation that I am also using my mule to transport Tier 4 resources to save money.
What if the caravan drivers themselves leak the information to bandits?
If I have the gold to buy Tier 4 resources to fill a caravan, resources which due to their rarity might come from many different players, I'll pay for the caravan too and add the price to the final product. Or I will not buy from that node if I cannot afford the caravan.
Alternatively, if I have good connections, maybe those bandits will bring me the Tier 4 resources. And those bandits will not want to see me running with a mule between nodes either.
Ah.. was hoping someone would step in with fuller info.. now if the potential engagement period extends to min 5 ish min.. then still short but more of a risk/reward venture
Or even things like npc guards you attach to your caravan journey be a 1 time use.