Greetings, glorious adventurers! If you're joining in our Alpha One spot testing, please follow the steps here to see all the latest test info on our forums and Discord!
Options
Using Advenced AI in Ashes of creation ( NO not ChatGTP )
Dreugui
Member
Hi,
First, I'm not asking to Integrates ChatGPT in the game. ( but yea i'm talking about AI of that level )
In the recent years, IAs have become quit big and divers, maybe enough to be a part of games. Some AIs have been release to the public and can now be executed in personal computer ( meaning no leak of information possible, no delay etc. ) BUT it still need a lot of resource to function, resource that could be difficult for personal usage but easier and available on server.
Example :
- AI could generate dynamic quest more precise, and specific (including, dialog, target, reward). no need to create yourself 500 quest that may never appear.
- could manage faction of NPC globally with advanced choice.
And specifically for AoC , be a part of the system that rule and drive the world ( the event system ).
My question is : dose it have been envisioned, or is it still a technology to recent and unstable to be integrated. to much work for not enough benefit ? ( simple AI are still relevant ? ).
it's just a thought of me, ( could be because I watched to many video about AI
) And you, what do you think ?
First, I'm not asking to Integrates ChatGPT in the game. ( but yea i'm talking about AI of that level )
In the recent years, IAs have become quit big and divers, maybe enough to be a part of games. Some AIs have been release to the public and can now be executed in personal computer ( meaning no leak of information possible, no delay etc. ) BUT it still need a lot of resource to function, resource that could be difficult for personal usage but easier and available on server.
Example :
- AI could generate dynamic quest more precise, and specific (including, dialog, target, reward). no need to create yourself 500 quest that may never appear.
- could manage faction of NPC globally with advanced choice.
And specifically for AoC , be a part of the system that rule and drive the world ( the event system ).
My question is : dose it have been envisioned, or is it still a technology to recent and unstable to be integrated. to much work for not enough benefit ? ( simple AI are still relevant ? ).
it's just a thought of me, ( could be because I watched to many video about AI
) And you, what do you think ? Sorry for my english. French here !
0
Comments
However they have stated that they specifically will not utilize procedural quest.
The only truly next-gen games will be ones which have advanced AI built into their games. This will solve the current generation's games' problem which is great graphics but average gameplay at best.
Sadly I do not think this is possible for Ashes right now. It's been in work for like almost 10 years now. Barely is getting into alpha 2 next year. Starting to develop something as ground-breaking as advanced AI and building it into the would probably take another 10 years lmao.
It's sad but true. AoC would have been a epic game 5-10 years ago. But now it'll beat all other MMORPGs at best and at worst I see it as being just as good as other top tier MMORPGs of it's era.
A.I. just this year has hit a remarkable milestone in terms of functionality. So basically AoC is too late into it's development to start building it in and comically it's at the same time too early in it's start of development to be able to utilize A.I. because I think A.I. will be well-developed enough after 5-10 more years to be able to be used to create truly incredible games.
I am all for this idea but it's undoable unless we stall this project for another 10 years imo. And if we do that then this game will officially beat all other games in terms of scope-creep rating.
Sure you can use AI to create dialogs, quest lines, etc., but that isn't nearly as time consuming as other parts of the game. Developing the software that takes care of all the dynamic events and systems in Ashes is what has high complexity and it's time consuming. However, after 5+ years of development, I expect most systems to be nearly finished because they are the foundation of the game. Regardless, most if not all systems are automated and some may have some intelligence integrated to them, you just might not hear the buzzword AI being used.
Besides being scope creep, it's also probably a waste of time to refactor code for the sake of using AI before launch, unless it's revolutionary - and it isn't yet. If they want to make use of AI to improve the code for future development, improve specific systems, etc., do that after launch.
well, you would have to create the nlp ai first (and make it so it understands English + whatever other language the game will have), then train it to learn the lore of the game, and make quests and dialogues based on that lore. they would also have to learn the personality of the characters who are talking to you and create responses that go accordingly to their personality. and you need to test, make sure things are coherent, etc, etc.
it would probably take much longer to do something like that than to manually write the quests and dialogues, although it could pay off and reduce work few years in the future.
Actually all the "train" IA to learn English and such are already done. ( I said integrate IA not create one, In Computer science the primary option is to NEVER redo what as already been done before and potientialy better than what you would do ) . And my point is, theoretically you could give ALL the lore + all NPC ( with their personality, behavior and such ) and It could pretty much "simulate" everything. ( i'm talking about the 4.0, the 3.5 is not enough powerful ) But then again, it the DEBUT of IA, it the "start" of the technology.
1. DAMN, I didn't think you could use IA to detect cheating server end, It could actually be a better way, than client end. potentially less vulnerable and more accurate AND ! you don't bother the user with HEAVY soft ant-cheat that slow the PC.
2. yes, that was what I was thinking, technically NPC have been directed by "IA" from 30 years, but now we're talking about "reel" IA. and it's sad that, maybe Ashes Of creation was developed "too early". I mean you imagine ? in the future if you integrate an IA in a game with enough "liberty" you could have game like we see in manga/manhwa ( without the deep dive, just the quest / NPC etc. ).
I was asking because the game is "still" in beta and maybe, yes it's too "late" too integrate an IA like that. BUT you could make the game in a way that you could integrate it later. the more you think of it early the more you can prepare for it.
The kickstarter was in 2017 and they had a crew of 20ish devs until like 2021 jsyk
However, I don't think Ashes will be the game that relies on AI to drive the gameworld and quest system. That will still be curated content designed and polished by human hand, even if a lot of it is AI generated.
I am sure we'll see some crazy AI driven MMORPGs in the future though. They can probably be created by relatively small teams. Who knows, maybe someone will create an AI based Game Creator, where you simply add keywords and shortly after you have a finished game based on those keywords. No developers needed.
I think we will see a day when some games, perhaps MMOs and especially possibly indie MMORPGs use AI to develop certain aspects like writing and quest design.
As for Ashes of Creation, we currently don't have plans to use tools like ChatGPT to fully write or develop, or procedurally-generate quests. Though, our team is always looking at new technologies that make sense to implement for Ashes of Creation
it's not the point here. we're talking about the possibility that with an IA, you could do MORE. IA is a TOOL to be used. you don't just put the IA there, and it'll "magically" do everything ( not now at least ^^ ) .
AND by the way IA by DEFINITION, it's goal is to IMITATE a "human" behavior ... what do you think "control" NPCs
IA can be modeled, optimized, customized, to be driven pretty accurately for some task.
example : there is already an APP that use ChatGPT, to "talk" with NPC. and it's pretty dam good. you give ChatGPT the mentality and background of the character and it can simulate a dialogue with you like it was really it.
On another side ( could be seen as "dark" or "inappropriate" ). some people "successfully" adapted chatGPT to simulate desisted person. ( could be "good" could be "bad" , depending your view ). but basically. the point is, where you are limited by time, and possibility. with IA you could basically have a "real" conversation with an NPC ( more so if you add an IA that convert you mic to writing, and another to covert the writing to audio to talk back - the 2 exist already by the way ). and that is something I don't think any dev could do with IA. it's basically the liberty of an TTRPG, in a video game. and I think it's a possible future.
Not for Ashes Of creation, not now maybe never, but how know the future, maybe in 10 years , the game would be so successful they roll in money and the IA is more developed, that they would integrate it in the game ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
It would be extremely difficult to create your chatbot instead of using something like ChatGPT. Detecting RMT or bots could be tacked on later as long as there’s sufficient logging put in now. First step would be to label what a bot or RMT looks like.
Indeed it will.
However, before large scale adoption really takes off, someone needs to make specific tools that incorporate AI. An NPC generator for Unreal that uses AI is going to be far easier for a game developer to use than trying to use ChatGPT in it's current state to do that same task, for example.
absolutely. professional VAs and quest/dialog writers are gonna have to collab and figure out the right core prompts to use to generate quality products. Then, incorporating either random generation or a template to generate a "character" to which you can quickly add attributes, in order to create specific NPCs, would be important to implement.
I'd actually be more inclined to think AI tech would be incorporated in to existing tools for game. I wouldnt expect a developer to be interacting with ChatGPT (or other LLM AI) itself, but rather a tool made specifically for game design using AI. I'd expect such a tool to be more tuned for this kind of thing as well.
Using AI in the form it's in now isnt exactly an efficient workflow, not for game development.
I think chat gpt 4 in its current state is quite close in its ability to support and do it well, though an optimized version for specific jobs would definitely be preferable. Outside of chat gpt though people already do specific training for their needs/wants for things like art and voices so I would expect nothing less.
It isn't just optimized versions, it also needs to be siloed.
SORRY ! IA is AI , it's my fault, it's just in my native language the letter are reverse, and I forgot to invers it !
ty