Glorious Alpha Two Testers!

Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.

Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.

Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.

Will there be consumable ammo

First post and much respect to the team. Thank you for endeavoring to make such a game. Now to my question.

Will there be consumable ammo for rangers or other classes or perhaps ships with the potion launcher?
Will this improve stats while using them? Will classes be able to craft them?

Thanks!
«1

Comments

  • AzheraeAzherae Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Generally no.

    There may be quivers which do not explicitly have any arrow count in them, for special effects and possibly stat increases.

    This link to the wiki page is probably the most helpful, few paragraphs in.
    ♪ One Gummy Fish, two Gummy Fish, Red Gummy Fish, Blue Gummy Fish
  • TyranthraxusTyranthraxus Member, Alpha Two
    @Azherae is correct. SS has directly commented on this before, and he just doesn't consider it a "fun" element of a game.

    Same applies to his comments on "retrievable ammo"; there won't be.



  • RazThemunRazThemun Member, Alpha Two
    From my understanding there will not be.

    What would be nice is if you had unlimited ammo of one kind. But there were other kinds you could purchase to do different things. Such as a fire arrows, arrows that explode, etc. Yes they could just build the abilities in. But by needing to purchase people would need to be more selective in when they use them as opposed to spamming the ability.
  • VeeshanVeeshan Member, Alpha Two
    edited October 2023
    You may need ammo for naval since i beleive AA had cannon balls ammo to use ship cannons so it might go that way since AA the biggest inspiration when it comes to naval content.
    But atm it seems like no there no consumable ammo atm atleast in regards to bows.
  • GrappLrGrappLr Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Here's my personal take on this: Ammo isn't particularly fun, it just isn't.

    But one thing they could do, if they wanted to give the feel of different "ammo type" is make quivers an item slot. Quivers would come "pre packed" with certain arrow types. So for example, you could farm for a "fire arrow quiver", etc. That way, there could be more than 1 type of "ammo", without the need for an "ammo" slot.
  • VeeshanVeeshan Member, Alpha Two
    GrappLr wrote: »
    Here's my personal take on this: Ammo isn't particularly fun, it just isn't.

    But one thing they could do, if they wanted to give the feel of different "ammo type" is make quivers an item slot. Quivers would come "pre packed" with certain arrow types. So for example, you could farm for a "fire arrow quiver", etc. That way, there could be more than 1 type of "ammo", without the need for an "ammo" slot.

    i personally think they should reserver this for naval combat and have unique ammo that you can load if u have it when your on the cannon like bola shot or fire bomb or anti infantry. Its easy to do cause when ur on a cannon you can get a new hot bar 1 or left click can be normal attack and 2-0 can be unique ammo
  • GrappLrGrappLr Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Veeshan wrote: »
    GrappLr wrote: »
    Here's my personal take on this: Ammo isn't particularly fun, it just isn't.

    But one thing they could do, if they wanted to give the feel of different "ammo type" is make quivers an item slot. Quivers would come "pre packed" with certain arrow types. So for example, you could farm for a "fire arrow quiver", etc. That way, there could be more than 1 type of "ammo", without the need for an "ammo" slot.

    i personally think they should reserver this for naval combat and have unique ammo that you can load if u have it when your on the cannon like bola shot or fire bomb or anti infantry. Its easy to do cause when ur on a cannon you can get a new hot bar 1 or left click can be normal attack and 2-0 can be unique ammo

    Sure, that works for cannons. Can also work for quivers. Can be for both or neither as well.

    Adding more complexity to builds at a certain point is unnecessary. It could very well be the case that build diversity will be so high, that adding the option for "different" ammo is just unnecessary at that point.

    Can't know until we've felt out the classes, augments, etc.
  • VeeshanVeeshan Member, Alpha Two
    edited October 2023
    the issue with quivers is lets say there 10 ammo that needs 10 different buttons to use now thats 10 more action slots taken up and so on yo swap ammo.
    Crowfall had quivers that made arrows have a different effect/weapon dmg type which could work
    Blunt quiver - could stun and did bludgeoning
    Slashing - Bonus dmg when target low hp, slashing dmg
    Piecing- Bleeds and piercing dmg
    fire - burn and fire dmg
    ice - chance to root and ice dmg

    I think this is fine for customisation but i dont think we should be doing say BG3 where there a bunch of ammo type and u need to click to use it it just gonna fill hot bars and shit up and not worth the hassle to juggle ammo.
  • GrappLrGrappLr Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited October 2023
    Veeshan wrote: »
    the issue with quivers is lets say there 10 ammo that needs 10 different buttons to use now thats 10 more action slots taken up and so on yo swap ammo.
    Crowfall had quivers that made arrows have a different effect/weapon dmg type which could work
    Blunt quiver - could stun and did bludgeoning
    Slashing - Bonus dmg when target low hp, slashing dmg
    Piecing- Bleeds and piercing dmg
    fire - burn and fire dmg
    ice - chance to root and ice dmg

    I think this is fine for customisation but i dont think we should be doing say BG3 where there a bunch of ammo type and u need to click to use it it just gonna fill hot bars and shit up and not worth the hassle to juggle ammo.

    Oh, you misunderstand my suggestion!

    I meant more like:

    1. Quiver of Frozen Wrath
    2. Quiver of Fiery Wrath

    Quiver 1 adds a frost effect. Quiver 2 adds a burning effect.

    Basically, no such things as arrows. But the attribute of the quiver effects your arrows! The quiver is an equipment slot that effects your projectiles, that serves basically as arrows without needing "ammunition count". Make sense?
  • VeeshanVeeshan Member, Alpha Two
    well thats same thing as what i said could work with crowfall quivers which change dmg type and gave effect chance, but the effect chance they could also just add to bows in regard to proc effect.
  • GrappLrGrappLr Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Veeshan wrote: »
    well thats same thing as what i said could work with crowfall quivers which change dmg type and gave effect chance, but the effect chance they could also just add to bows in regard to proc effect.

    I just think it's a more elegant solution to the immersion idea of "where are my arrows coming from".
  • I honestly prefer archers to to carry their own ammo and different types but I can see why they would want avoid that based on design. To me it's like planning out your encounter or adventure. In many games archer based classes just end up becoming bow casters (magic abilities channeled through bows, arrows, bolts etc).
  • SolvrynSolvryn Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    First post and much respect to the team. Thank you for endeavoring to make such a game. Now to my question.

    Will there be consumable ammo for rangers or other classes or perhaps ships with the potion launcher?
    Will this improve stats while using them? Will classes be able to craft them?

    Thanks!

    No.

    Most people don't know how to manage resources and consumables properly.
  • Mages use mana. Mana potions are like ammo to them. Just that they drink the ammo before they spit it out through their staff.
    Or maybe we should be call them energy drinks and let archers use them too, to be able to shoot arrows?
  • TyranthraxusTyranthraxus Member, Alpha Two
    Raven016 wrote: »
    Mages use mana. Mana potions are like ammo to them. Just that they drink the ammo before they spit it out through their staff.
    Or maybe we should be call them energy drinks and let archers use them too, to be able to shoot arrows?

    Red Bull gives you arrows?



  • Raven016 wrote: »
    Mages use mana. Mana potions are like ammo to them. Just that they drink the ammo before they spit it out through their staff.
    Or maybe we should be call them energy drinks and let archers use them too, to be able to shoot arrows?

    Red Bull gives you arrows?




    Without it you should not be able to do this...

    https://youtu.be/0257a-goFwE?t=962

    ... and I see no arrow when he zooms in

    https://youtu.be/0257a-goFwE?t=823
  • edited October 2023
    @Raven016 it's a WIP and early alpha. I believe they mentioned that they were working on fixing that. That does not reflect final product obviously.

    what's interesting is they are discussing about the empowering of abilities and charged shots for greater output variables. We may even see those arrows appearance change relatively to the empowerment degree.
  • @Raven016 it's a WIP and early alpha. I believe they mentioned that they were working on fixing that. That does not reflect final product obviously.

    what's interesting is they are discussing about the empowering of abilities and charged shots for greater output variables. We may even see those arrows appearance change relatively to the empowerment degree.
    Wiki states that

    All archetypes use mana to varying degrees.[3][4]

    Even pure melee players use mana to manipulate The Essence for their extraordinary abilities.[6]

    Sitting increases mana regeneration while out of combat.[2][7][1]


    They could balance the regeneration to be slow enough to make sitting needed if you run out of mana potions.
    That would make potions needed all the time. You would take a stack with you when leaving a city.
    It is just a visual representation if you carry arrows or potions in your inventory. The concept can end up similar.
  • Raven016 wrote: »
    @Raven016 it's a WIP and early alpha. I believe they mentioned that they were working on fixing that. That does not reflect final product obviously.

    what's interesting is they are discussing about the empowering of abilities and charged shots for greater output variables. We may even see those arrows appearance change relatively to the empowerment degree.
    Wiki states that

    All archetypes use mana to varying degrees.[3][4]

    Even pure melee players use mana to manipulate The Essence for their extraordinary abilities.[6]

    Sitting increases mana regeneration while out of combat.[2][7][1]


    They could balance the regeneration to be slow enough to make sitting needed if you run out of mana potions.
    That would make potions needed all the time. You would take a stack with you when leaving a city.
    It is just a visual representation if you carry arrows or potions in your inventory. The concept can end up similar.

    true. The same can be literally said about any resource bar.
    Stamina is a resource bar, mana is a resource, energy is a resource bar. They're just coloured differently with a different name but essentially have the same purpose.

    They do have plans for potions and what not but the goal is to not make the game a potion chugger. So there will more than likely be limitations and restrictions on use to prevent this. I think there was mention of it recently in one of the stream but I currently at the moment can not remember exactly which one or time stamp. It's been a question since the first combat reveal many have been wondering about.

    Consumables come in many form but I believe the context is more specifically to ammo types such as armour piercing arrows. This could also be integrated as mentioned I believe by the devs in the type of quiver one may equip to augment abilities but I may be mistaken on that.

    One thing I liked in SWTOR was the items essentially were interchangeable with augment slots for improvement. Maybe we will see something similar where it could be as simple as an enchant will augment an empowered ability to act more like an armour piercing round opposed to having them as a carried consumable? Could even just be a specific passive or active too.
  • VaknarVaknar Member, Staff
    Wooo! \o/ welcome to the forums and great first post!

    Like @Azherae , @Tyranthraxus and others have mentioned, Steven did chat about bows and ammo not too long ago, which can be found on that wiki link!

    Don't let that stop you from discussing that, though ;)

    Do you like games that have ammo? Why or why not?

    What about ammo do you think would add to or diminish your experience in-game? :)
    community_management.gif
  • hanoldbuddyhanoldbuddy Member, Alpha Two
    Vaknar wrote: »
    Wooo! \o/ welcome to the forums and great first post!

    Like @Azherae , @Tyranthraxus and others have mentioned, Steven did chat about bows and ammo not too long ago, which can be found on that wiki link!

    Don't let that stop you from discussing that, though ;)

    Do you like games that have ammo? Why or why not?

    What about ammo do you think would add to or diminish your experience in-game? :)

    WootWoot! a message from the staff!

    I was thinking maybe for ships ammo might be something to consider. Maybe they have a limited supply so that they run out and then must board the enemy, but I could see this as only viable in PvP and maybe not PvE as the ship would probably need to still fire on the Kraken cause not everyone is a ranged character. It's easy to just wipe it away and say no ammo that fixes a lot of problems, but the complexity you are building with the game intrigues me to think of how ammo would work. Not that I have a solution. The benefit of ammo would really have to be worthwhile to justify adding that extra layer of complexity, tediousness of making it, and sucks to not have it to the game. I want to stop making the argument for it though because I'm not sure i believe in the fight for having ammo. If it could be implemented correctly though, i think it'd add another layer of welcomed complexity to this already beautify complex game. I've been telling all my friends about it since I saw that watch party on reddit go crazy when Alpha 2 was announced for 2024. That was my introduction to Ashes. I've never seen excitement like that for a game, and now I'm excited!
  • @hanoldbuddy That's a good point about stock piling the naval ships with additional ammo especially if the different class of ships play integral roles while on the seas.

    https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Ships

    It definitely would seem like a frigate would be outgunned by a galleon with ship size, weapons and crew. I definitely agree for naval PvP or Raids on how it would add more depth and complexity to the raid with ideal preparations and resource management.

    Curious what kind of variables will affect the naval ships based on weight and if things like wind direction play a more significant role.
  • Vaknar wrote: »
    Do you like games that have ammo? Why or why not?

    What about ammo do you think would add to or diminish your experience in-game? :)

    Given that
    Items made for final consumption are not dropped, such as consumable items created by the Cooking and Alchemy professions.[24]
    Arrows would just take inventory space.
    Having potions for all classes is acceptable. But I would prefer more potion types.
  • CawwCaww Member, Alpha Two
    ammo counts suck....
  • ArnasPanikaArnasPanika Member
    edited October 2023
    Loved buying arrows for 1h/2h/3h worth of farm (depending on where the party will go hunting), loved crafting arrows of materials found in the world, because it was cheaper than buying from other players/crafters or shops, loved stock pilling the warehouse with arrows to be ready for tomorrow's farm and thinking that I won't need to care for ammo tomorrow, because I'm preparing in the evening. Loved realizing that arrows are gone but the mob is still not dead and figuring out how not to die, trying to run and ask for help from other players or having a dagger in inventory, equipping it and finishing the mob and thinking I have to be more aware of how many arrows are left next time before starting a farm/grind/leaving the city. Loved that arrows did weigh a lot and I had to think about inventory management as well (maybe to leave some more potions in warehouse/bank while having a longer farm out of city).
  • CROW3CROW3 Member, Alpha Two
    As a ranger, when I'm out of arrows, my overall effectiveness decreases significantly compared to other non-ammo based classes (such as fighters). So if you're going to implement separate ammo, a few suggestions for QoL:
    1. Allow ammo to be stacked to something like 1-2k to avoid extra ammo taking up too many pack spaces
    2. Allow basic ammo (i.e. wood arrows) to be easily crafted in the wilds
    3. Add a clear indicator of ammo left in my inventory next to ammo slot in the char sheet (so as my bag sizes increase I have an at-a-glance view of where I stand

    I don't want an ammo to be a leash limiting exploration because I need to go back to town to buy arrows.
    AoC+Dwarf+750v3.png
  • CROW3 wrote: »
    As a ranger, when I'm out of arrows, my overall effectiveness decreases significantly compared to other non-ammo based classes (such as fighters). So if you're going to implement separate ammo, a few suggestions for QoL:
    1. Allow ammo to be stacked to something like 1-2k to avoid extra ammo taking up too many pack spaces
    2. Allow basic ammo (i.e. wood arrows) to be easily crafted in the wilds
    3. Add a clear indicator of ammo left in my inventory next to ammo slot in the char sheet (so as my bag sizes increase I have an at-a-glance view of where I stand

    I don't want an ammo to be a leash limiting exploration because I need to go back to town to buy arrows.

    Fair would be also non-ammo based classes (such as fighters). to have to sharpen their swords.
    And tanks to repair their armor.
    I am not sure players will like depending on artisan classes while they farm.
  • Nova_terraNova_terra Member, Alpha Two
    Raven016 wrote: »
    CROW3 wrote: »
    As a ranger, when I'm out of arrows, my overall effectiveness decreases significantly compared to other non-ammo based classes (such as fighters). So if you're going to implement separate ammo, a few suggestions for QoL:
    1. Allow ammo to be stacked to something like 1-2k to avoid extra ammo taking up too many pack spaces
    2. Allow basic ammo (i.e. wood arrows) to be easily crafted in the wilds
    3. Add a clear indicator of ammo left in my inventory next to ammo slot in the char sheet (so as my bag sizes increase I have an at-a-glance view of where I stand

    I don't want an ammo to be a leash limiting exploration because I need to go back to town to buy arrows.

    Fair would be also non-ammo based classes (such as fighters). to have to sharpen their swords.
    And tanks to repair their armor.
    I am not sure players will like depending on artisan classes while they farm.

    Fully personal opinion but basic ammos almost never read well into anything other than survival crafting games. I totally love the ideas of quivers with CDs or even making quivers something like "for the next 3 minutes your arrows deal cold damage and do 1.1x damage" and making those consumables for a bit of a power spike or something but having to lug around 4000 arrows or constantly having to make sure you are stocked and what that would mean for spellcasters/melee martial classes ends up being something a bit tedious.
  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    We don't want separate ammo or the need to sharpen weapons thanks. This isn't a survival game.
    2a3b8ichz0pd.gif
  • Mag7spyMag7spy Member, Alpha Two
    I honestly don't understand why people want to layer random repetitive things that don't' enhance any kind of gameplay.

    Like they are out here being like "Guys lets make this game bad for no reason."
Sign In or Register to comment.