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📝Dev Discussion #59 - Utility Skills 🧗♀️
Glorious Ashes community - it's time for another Dev Discussion! Dev Discussion topics are kind of like a "reverse Q&A" - rather than you asking us questions about Ashes of Creation, we want to ask YOU what your thoughts are.
Our design team has compiled a list of burning questions we'd love to get your feedback on regarding gameplay, your past MMO experiences, and more. Join in on the Dev Discussion and share what makes gaming special to you!
Dev Discussion - Utility Skills
What utility skills do you feel are most important? Are there certain scenarios that should require specific ones?
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People should enjoy something extra, and with a large variety you avoid dictating the meta.
Sometimes combat related, but not necessary:
Knocking targets of walls/high places with a push or a sparta kick. That would make for some satisfying gameplay.
Discovering extra loot from either the environment or from the mobs
Unique weapons or consumable access
Unique npc gameplay (rogue/theft, ranger/hunting payments, tank/reputation, fighter and cleric quests access for something beneficial)
Special terrain traversing methods for alternative solutions
One group buff (not tied to being a support class)
Proficiency in mounts or ships or caravans or property
Unique raid mechanic activation. Not all classes. Maybe one or two, and not all raids. Example: vs humanoid raid -> fighter challenge for a quick duel sequence which if successful it would benefit the group. Something as simple as a Dynasty Warriors simultainous attack weapon-clash wherein the fighter and the boss engage in a bit of a showdown
Triggered ultimates that the character performs during combat, out of the players control and only once in a while, based on invisible, conditional timer. An epic oh shit moment.
Alternative stances for some performed actions (aoe, cc, dot) for 1 class.
Mob weakness detection skills similar to L2s warrior selfbuffs dragon weakness detection, beast weakness detection, animal weakness detection, etc etc etc.
A magical light skill: For a support class (bard, clerics) to use in really dark caves and illuminate while the party grinds
A player tracking skill: A divination skill (cleric maybe) that could track players. A skill like this is important because of the nature of open-world PVP with virtually no fast travel. Being able to track enemies (regardless of corruption) and even maybe corrupted players without the bounty hunter system is important IMO.
In the same vein: A stealth-related skill to make it harder for people to track you (ranger and rogue maybe).
Detect magic: A skill that could be used by magical archetypes to identify magical secret passages, invisible treasures, and so on.
A ship tracking skill: Used to track other ships on the open ocean. Could be implemented as a ship skill.
Lockpicking: Classic rogue utility skill.
Create basic food and water: Basic support skill (bard, clerics) to help health and mana regen in situations where you can't go back to a tavern and get more food
These are the ones that come off the top of my head right now, but I'm sure there is a lot of inspiration to be taken from DND and Pathfinder utility spells.
I would love to have each archetype have a situational advantage in some situations based on their utility spells, making them unique and valuable even outside of combat. IMO you should create as much reliance on other archetypes as you can out of combat, but not to the point where these archetypes' advantages trivialize the situation. Some examples: Treasure hunting, world exploration, player and vehicle tracking, clearing world traps and obstacles and questing discovery.
Would like to see archetype utility skills implemented in various aspects of the game. For example a caravan or boat driven/owned by a tank has more hit points. One driven by a cleric has a shorter cooldown or more effectiveness on its heal. Rogue, the vehicle isn’t visible until x amount of meters, etc etc.
Passive archetype utilities like this can feel very rewarding and gives weight to player choice and group composition.
I think anything that ultimately allows one to interact with the world around them is awesome; such as pathfinding or clearing poisonous gas. Considering that Ashes intends to be player-driven, having an arsenal to choose from would lend a hand to unique builds and use cases.
I would like to see the secondary being able to offer interesting new options or augments to utility skills for the primary class.
It would boil down to the archetype that the player is and how it would benefit them. Some rogues can lockpick in games, pickpocket, or otherwise, but I don't think that too much should be invested into this concept. Allowing certain classes like rogues to have abilities that help them gain better access to a loot table may be seen in some players' eyes as unfair. Though, if there is counterplay to that, such as allowing lockpicks to be sold which offer the same service of a rogue, just at a lesser chance maybe to balance things out, then I am in support of such existing in Verra.
Are there certain scenarios that should require specific ones?
Yes, I actually think one of the most amazing utility skills I came across was where archers had an incredibly awesome ability to shoot a sticky light arrow to the ceiling of a cave, illuminating the game. I would 5000% LOVE abilities like that which add a layer of immersion into the game. Mages who could toss an orb of light to the top of the ceiling also to brighten cave rooms, etc, maybe make it graphically look unique to mages apart from the Bow-users sticky light arrow.
I definitely believe that if attention is to be made in utility, it would have to be polished very well and exciting, graphic wise.
Nice wiki drop! A helpful link for those who may be unfamiliar with the system
Without a list of options, we can still brainstorm possibilities! Your response is a good example of exactly that! Examples from other games might be a good way to get the ball rolling on what is possible!
There are a few ideas that we've shared before, which some will already be aware of, which can be found here: https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Utility_skills
1. Intimidate - Enemies that are below your level won't attack you without provocation. (passive)
2. Cushioned fall - You take reduced fall damage. (passive)
3. Momentum - You get ramping movement speed when running in a straight line. (active ability)
4. Helping hand - You can throw a party member a few meters in any direction. (active ability)
5. Juggernaut - You cannot be slowed by difficult terrain. (passive)
Non-Combat
Cartography / Treasure Hunting
Lockpicking
Illumination Spell and/or Toss Torch
Surveying
Climb Wall (Castle Siege)
Tracking (Player and/or Monster)
Hide (Not Stealth, you can't move)
Detect Hidden
Detect Magic
Dwarf Toss
Camping
Non-Combat ish
Group Run Speed Aura / Song
For example, Ranger has the ability to hide traps, maybe in combination with a Mage the trap can create an explosion. Another thing that comes to my mind is to use Bard to create that kind of synergies with their music.
Vision, light, movement, orientation... There are a lot of points that I would love to see in different archetypes. And I agree that it helps to feel very proud of your class if you can make things happen apart of doing damage or healing.
I will be editing the post with more examples but here you have some:
Another idea that came to my mind is that some utility skills can be restricted to specific consumable items that should be created with artisanship skills. So maybe with your professions you can cover some weak points that your archetype or class may have.
https://discord.gg/MZwMe38qSG
Here are examples:
Detect, Appraise, Bluff (for NPC chats), Disable trap, Heal (skill) with bandage, Intimidate (for NPC), Listen (for rumors),Lore (help with puzzles if they are present in the game),Open lock, Perform(?...a way for Bard to earn money by playing music in towns? class specific), Persuade (for NPCs, dialogue option), Pick pocket, Search (? frisking NPCs), Set trap, Spot (for detecting enemies, outline with glow), Use magic device (use of magic items that arent really weapons?), Animal handling (for taming). There are loads of them in DND games...
Now you can take use all skill and form all sorts of utility items, skill checks, abilities etc.
Hunter having a flare arrow that it can shoot up in the sky to reveal its location or even help with stealth detection.
Mage or cleric having a ball of light that follows them and illuminates the area.
Detecting. Doors, more loot that isn't located in chest, but in hidden compartments, in furniture.
Smoke bombs, smoke signals, flashbombs
Traps that are meant to harm, but more like detection device. Like a string attached to a bell that shows the enemy location when they pass through it. Maybe pair it with Detection skill mentioned +Detect skill check determines from how long of a distance can you hear it.
Use of terrain as utility. For example, you could make some rocks moveable at the top of the canyon, so you can block the road before caravans pass. Maybe you need combination of Detection to locate movable rocks + an item (crowbar) and maybe (this might be too much) a strength requirement.
Grappling hooks. Not usable if you are above certain weight. Maybe only useable if you are agile enough too.
Shovels for digging treasure, graves and maybe even trenches.
Summoning players skill specific to a class. Warlocks in wow could summon players with the help of other players.
Ritual of Summoning
Level 33 warlock ability
30 yd range
5% of base mana
2 min cooldown
Channeled
Begins a ritual to create a summoning portal, requiring the caster and 2 allies to complete. This portal can be used to summon party and raid members.
Parkour type of skill only available to agile classes that unlocks a new type of movement. Sure, other classes should be able to climb on the buildings, but you can expect some warrior in a full plate to do flips on rooftops. Same goes for fall damage, climbing down ladders ( rogues should be able to just slide down)...
Mages using elemental magic used for combat as utility. Lets say there is an ice wall or a frozen door preventing you from going forward. Well, mage could just cast something like cone of fire and unfreeze it.
Long story short, there shouldn't be only utility skills present in the game, but utility items, utilized environment etc.
I would also like to see some other forms of teleportation. So far I really love the mage blink, I would like to see some delayed teleportation, meaning you dissapear from the world and you reappear somewhere else but after some time (something like 2,3 seconds) so for example you could dodge some long casting spells like the mages frozen meteors (idk the name)
This skill could be nicely done as level 1 would have no teleportation and you just dissapear, level 2 would give you slight teleport ability (meaning moving from A to
I really like buffs that affect whole group, in Aion the class Chanter had different mantras that were like passive buffs and they affected all friendly in certain radius. Some affected crit chance, physical def, mana restoration, HP restoration and my favourite was affecting speed of walking/running.
This made that class really fun to play and I would love to see something similar in AoC
Raid boss areas: This is excellent flavor and should not be a problem for a raid group of 40 players. If Intrepid wanted to go the extra mile, then they could allow mages to recreate and channel to maintain a barrier (with a limited hp pool) that blocks other players from accessing the room during the fight.
Dungeon areas: I think Arcane Eye would be acceptable to access an optional boss, but not for the main bosses in a dungeon. If a mage is valuable to a small group and worth searching for one, then it should be because the encounter demands it, not simply to gain access.
Open world exploration/secrets: I think this is where the most value for an ability like Arcane Eye would be. This is optional content that is a form of lore puzzle-solving and having a high requirement (like a certain archetype to unlock the next step) is totally fine and is part of the challenge. If you make this type of secret finding too easy, then players will solve it in no time.
In conclusion, during large raids or in secret-solving, requiring a certain class utility is just fine. In small groups, I think it's more appropriate to limit this requirement to bonus content like a treasure chest room.
What would be disastrous is if every group always needed a diverse complement of archetypes because the majority of content is locked behind everyone's utility skills. These skills should be designed thoughtfully to amplify the experience, not sprinkled throughout the entire game.
'Tank':
Used to 'Aura that intimidates a specific enemy type' (this is more of a flavored DPS thing). This isn't really a Utility Skill since it IS for combat and doesn't prevent aggro, but the other main Tank in FFXI (historically) does actually have the 'lowers aggro range'. It's personal only.
I don't feel the above works particularly well in Ashes.
I'd prefer something fall damage related on this or the Rogue. I can't think of anything else that won't be pigeonholing other than 'Aura that reduces aggro for whole group within range'.
'Cleric':
Used to Concealment and limited Teleportation magic.
The latter doesn't work in Ashes much, the former was just a way to save money or delve for longer than planned.
I'd prefer some Generic (at start) Blessing that maybe becomes specialized based on Augments, or something that changes specific hostile/neutral NPCs in the world to neutral/friendly. Ability to interact with specific shrines and whatnot is ok.
Fighter:
Used to, nothing in particular.
Would prefer: see Tank. I guess since base stats are determined by Archetype, Strength or Speed 'feats' such as carrying two crates instead of one, boosting party members over some obstacle wall before climbing over themselves, etc.
Mage:
Used to different teleportation options.
That doesn't work in Ashes.
Would prefer interacting with magical devices and doors, and in the open world, I'd prefer they had the Concealment Magic in Ashes.
Rogue:
Used to lockpicking and a movespeed increase.
Wouldn't like the second in Ashes.
Fine with just the first, though.
Bard:
Used to nothing specific, they can make noise on demand. Whee.
Not sure how that matters in Ashes.
No suggestions, I'll remind my group's Bard to think on it.
Ranger:
Used to Enemy Tracking (wide Scan)
This was 'annoying' enough in the latter parts of FFXI to be given to everyone, but they still keep the superior version, at least.
I don't mind this, though. Terrain movespeed bonuses are nice but often 'not good enough' or 'unbalanced' based on a bunch of stuff.
Summoner:
Used to auras emitted from their Summon, but most of these are Combat related.
No opinion on this in Ashes.
I've got no suggestions that fit Ashes, particularly because I'm used to the idea that they can do a bit of everything so defining it feels weird.
Also, they need to be balanced really good.
Reading the wiki links i saw something along the lines of " rogue has invisibility and ranger has hound that detects that". Cool, i guess, the ranger cancels the rogue, but they arent balanced at all. What is the use of the hound except detect sneaky rogue? For invisibility, there are tons of uses, but to dedicate a full utility skill on another class just to detect that sneaky rogue feels bad.
I would say each class needs to have an "active" utility and a "counter" utility. The active one would be "offensive" (like the rogue's invisibility) and the counter one is "defensive" (the hound). That way, you can use the active one when you want to, for example, attack a caravan, and use the counter one when you are moving along with the caravan.
But this then brings the questions, would every counter ability defeat every active ability? I honestly dont know what to say here.
The other way to do it, and it might be better tbh, is to have utility skills be just utility, with no use in combat at all (so no invisibility). This way, there dosent need to be a this rock-paper-hound thing going on at all times. Utility should be utility. The fighter can lift a rock blocking the way , the mage can repair a broken bridge in a dungeon , the cleric shines light around them to see better.
TLDR, utility skills should have either no impact on PvP at all, or give every class the same PvP utility (like, everyone gets a dash, thats utility i guess), or create this complex offensive-defensive utility system that needs to be super balanced to be fair in PvP
Bard plays a tune that reaches allies in a cone and negates or reduces the next instance of damage.
Mage, a primarily backline caster may have an aoe group teleport.
Ranger, breaks crowd control of all allies hit by the rangers next ability.
Y'know, borderline game breaking combat utilities that keeps combat very dynamic and abilities that must be employed strategically.
-Abilities to counter vision impairments caused by mist or darkness, or even to enhance vision range
-Skills to navigate slippery, slowing, or damaging surfaces
-Techniques to deal with doors and locks efficiently
-Ways to detect and disarm traps
-Skills for breathing underwater or swimming faster
-Abilities like slow fall, levitation, or reduced fall damage
-Improved jumping, climbing, or running speed
-Techniques to distract patrolling mobs
-Reducing aggro range against specific types of enemies
-Skills to track specific types of enemies or players, similar to 'Track Humanoid/Undead/Beast' and 'Mind Vision' from World of Warcraft
-Tools to help others reach inaccessible places, like a character with special climbing abilities dropping a rope for others
I can also imagine abilities creating these environmental challenges:
-Skills to create vision impairments or slippery/slowing surfaces
-Increased aggro range against players (for certain mob types)
-Abilities that make tracking harder or even impossible
-Locking doors
Misc:
-Abilities to prevent or partially repair equipment damage
-Providing additional information about enemies, such as their resistances and weaknesses, akin to the Analyze skill of the Gandalf-like class in LOTRO
Examples of skills I would like to see:
Mage - Teleport/Warp. I played a game years ago called Final Fantasy XI and Black Mages had two spells one was "Escape" and the other was called "Warp" iirc. Essentially what they did was escape would teleport the whole party outside of a dungeon. Warp was a single target spell but it did the same thing. In terms of use you could explore a dungeon or zone and instead of backtracking or having to use your hearthstone, you could just take the whole party out of the dungeon that way. It was good in "Oh $hit!" situations too if you bit off more than you could chew as well.
Rogue: Lockpicking - straightforward ability to open chests/doors etc. This could open up new paths through a dungeon or additional loot
Summoner: Summon Light Elemental - An easy way of creating light in a dark zone or at night so the party can better see
Summon party: Think Warlock Summoning Portal from WoW - You, with the help a couple of other party members, can summon people to your location
Cleric: Sanctification - Cleansing any poisons, corruption, or magical traps in an area
Ranger: Tracking - They can track the location of mobs (see numbers, names, locations, movement) in a certain range. This could be used to target certain nortorius monsters or to scout ahead and make sure you're not walking into a trap.
Fighter: This one is tougher. Perhaps an examine-type ability. The fighter is able to use insight to see the weaknesses or resistances of mobs to add in party strategy.
Tank: Sacrifice - Tank can sacrifice themselves to place a barrier around 1 other player that makes them immune to damage but unable to act for the rest of the fight. This would mainly be for certain wipe situations and be used on a cleric so they can resurrect the party instead of everyone having to return to their rez point.
Bard: Slowfall - Bard can sing a song that allows the party to take no falling damage. If there is verticality built into raids or dungeons or alternate pathing you could use this to escape a losing battle, ambush players/mobs, or just traverse a zone.
This class should be so full of utility it's actually hard to think of skills that would be active skills for them.
I like this idea. In Tibia we had multiple utility items like shovels to dig entrances to hidden caves, pickaxes to break some rocks blocking paths, vials to scoop up different liquids and solve puzzles, ropes to get out of caves and to higher elevations, machetes to cut some bushes and open paths, and many profession tools.
Using these tools allowed people to explore the world and find hidden caves and dungeons, new quests and treasures, and many more. To this day people are still finding new places and quests and there are still some mysteries left, because of how in-depth it is.
If people want to see an example of top tier world exploration and questing, they should look into tibia, best in those regard IMO.
What utility skills do you feel are most important?
Ideally, none of them should be "most important", right? The idea is to have a wide array of utility skills that are useful in different ways. Skills for traversal, information gathering, opening paths, alternate quest progression, and any other fun and flavorful ideas y'all can come up with.
Are there certain scenarios that should require specific ones?
No. There should be multiple ways to solve any scenario, with different utility skills or just with basic mechanics and some creativity. It sucks to be locked out of content just because you don't have the right archetype in your group. Or it becomes an arbitrary checklist to make sure you have one of each.
Bard: Show Time, reduces cooldowns by 15%, and increases mana regeneration by 25%, and increases basic attack speed by 15%
Cleric: Boon of Devotion, increases healing received by 10%, and reduces damage received when below 50% max health by 10%
Fighter: Glorious Boon, 5% crit chance, and 10% increased healing, shielding and damage to characters above 50% max health
Mage: Boon of Enlightenment, 10% more max mana, spell crit chance (effects healing spells), and mana regeneration
Ranger: Boon of Freedom, 10% more movement speed, chance to resist loss of control effects, and physical crit chance
Rogue: Boon of Opportunity, 20% increased damage healing and shielding to characters below 50% max health
Summoner: Channeler's Boon, 10% less chance to be crit
Tank: Defender's Boon, 5% increased max health, 10% physical armor, 10% spell armor, and 2% less damage taken
People love when they have something extra, and with a large variety of these abilities you avoid dictating the meta.
While we are here, I will mention that a Grandmaster Alchemist finding a secret entrance that was hidden behind an overgrowth by knowing that a certain combination of herbs that grow nearby will clear the overgrowth... is also cool. And it does not need to be common at all.
In the end it is usually the output balance that dictates the meta.
So you can go a bit wild when it comes to the utility skills.
Utility skills should give you the opportunity to move spotlight to your character,
or at least have the oh that is cool moment.
Something *unique* that your class combination brings to the table.
Even a combination of two utility skills that if paired up correctly, will allow you to do something no other class can even come close to.
I am a big fan of faster games. So in my eyes even the slowest class should have access to limited movement utility in the form of spells or consumables. Both in {skills} and out of combat.
Generally utility skills should be as powerful as they are niche.
If an utility skill works in 50% of the situations you will encounter, it should be weaker than the utility skill that works only in 20%.
Of course there are exceptions, for example a class which strengths are in the adaptability of their utility skills or kit, which is why I said in *Generally*.
Have fun with utility skills, there are some must haves, but reward being prepared for those odd situations of facing multiple caster mobs, or saving one minute of a dungeon by being able to pickpocket a key from a hidden compartment, that maybe is not always available.
Mobility is fun. Being not able to play your character is not.
Every player created CC should have a solution.
Kheil, out. And i wish you all a Happy new year. :
Things like smoke bombs, invisibility spells/cloaks/potions, illusions, clouds of fog, etc. Any way that can be used to conceal/obfuscate players when farming, running caravans, during combat, or war.
Things like levitate or grappling hooks can be fun.
I’d say anything you can do to make defending/attacking caravans fun is good.
For example if a rogue throws a grapple hook, a 'dumb' skill would only ever pull the rogue to the target location. But! A smart skill might check the target, and act accordingly. Grappling a wall would pull the rogue to it, grappling a smaller enemy might pull it to the rogue, a larger enemy might pull the rogue to the enemy, a held item might be yanked, etc etc. The new Zelda games on the Switch really come to mind, where they created a game physics that didn't dictate outcomes but rather interactions. Fun augments might allow for a DnD style 'rope trick' where the rogue throws it straight up in the air where the hook freezes, allowing the rogue to climb up out of melee range as a desperate escape or to jump to higher areas/areas that lacked line of sight from the ground.
Another example might be a mage that casts a light spell. If it simply illuminates the area around the mage, that's not very impressive. If instead the mage creates an orb of light that trails a selected target, either its self or an ally/enemy, now there's an interesting and dynamic mechanic at work. Mayhaps the orb is a touch slower than the player's movement. If the player is running around in circles, its not such an issue, but if they need to run away now the orb will struggle to keep up and mayhaps expires early when it gets too far from its target. Imagine in PvP a mage casting light on a rogue who might then now stealth but still be locatable for AOE attacks because of their illustrious minder, but could haul ass away to outrun the orb and be free to stealth. Or the rogue or an ally casts darkness on the rogue to cancel out the orb. For bonus points let the mage be able to pick the color of the orb, with an augment or some such. Now what could have been a simple torch like spell has multiple uses (also party targeting!) depending on the situation and cleverness of the player.
Ultimately, these skills shouldn't be a boring tax required to cross certain geographical, political, or inter-social tollbooths out in the world.
I'd suggest this is important enough to be across the board, rather than restricted to a few archetypes.
I would say there should be a torch item that can do the same but with more limitations: You need to spend gold to buy it or craft it, it should get exhausted and it should illuminate less than a skill.
https://discord.gg/MZwMe38qSG