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To get the quickest updates regarding Alpha Two, connect your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Racial Augments
arkileo
Member, Founder, Kickstarter, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
I will preface by acknowledging that we haven't heard anything about racial augments in a long time, and that Steven has expressed a desire for your race choice to not be motivated by gameplay effects. This sort of suggests that racial augments are a thing of the past. But I like the idea of them, with a caveat.
Racial augments, in my opinion, would provide an interesting bit of flavor to your race choice, but I agree that racial abilities in their traditional implementation coupled with min/max culture tends to funnel players into picking the race with the "best" racial(s).
Vanilla WoW had this problem especially with its priest class, where specifically a dwarf priest was pretty unambiguously the best healer priest choice because they were to only ones to get access to the fear ward ability, something very very useful in certain encounters. But with WoW Classic's Season of Discovery, priest racials are still learnable by the race that they belong to, but with the addition that the ones from different races are available via quests from their respective races. The quests themselves are underwhelming, boiling down to "go talk to this guy" to learn the ability, but I think the idea is solid.
So here's my proposal for Ashes:
Each race has unique augments unlocked at some point by default by members of that race, for example maybe Py'rai get a level 10 augment that can be applied to CC abilities called "Constricting Vines," causing vines to grasp the target's feet, adding a 0.5 second root to the ability effect. Py'rai would gain this augment automatically at level 10, but all the other races would need to complete a quest in order to unlock it. This quest line would be available from Py'rai nodes of a certain level, and would be an exploration of Py'rai culture. Maybe the player would need to complete a certain hunt, or perform some kind of rite, culminating in the player unlocking that augment for use.
Under this system, it would probably be better to call them "Cultural Augments" than "Racial Augments."
Racial augments, in my opinion, would provide an interesting bit of flavor to your race choice, but I agree that racial abilities in their traditional implementation coupled with min/max culture tends to funnel players into picking the race with the "best" racial(s).
Vanilla WoW had this problem especially with its priest class, where specifically a dwarf priest was pretty unambiguously the best healer priest choice because they were to only ones to get access to the fear ward ability, something very very useful in certain encounters. But with WoW Classic's Season of Discovery, priest racials are still learnable by the race that they belong to, but with the addition that the ones from different races are available via quests from their respective races. The quests themselves are underwhelming, boiling down to "go talk to this guy" to learn the ability, but I think the idea is solid.
So here's my proposal for Ashes:
Each race has unique augments unlocked at some point by default by members of that race, for example maybe Py'rai get a level 10 augment that can be applied to CC abilities called "Constricting Vines," causing vines to grasp the target's feet, adding a 0.5 second root to the ability effect. Py'rai would gain this augment automatically at level 10, but all the other races would need to complete a quest in order to unlock it. This quest line would be available from Py'rai nodes of a certain level, and would be an exploration of Py'rai culture. Maybe the player would need to complete a certain hunt, or perform some kind of rite, culminating in the player unlocking that augment for use.
Under this system, it would probably be better to call them "Cultural Augments" than "Racial Augments."
3
Comments
Example: you are a Kaelar but the RenKai npc wants you to kill thirty level 55+ Kaelar mobs/npcs and then get a uncommon drop from a particular group based Boss that is also Kaelar. Or perhaps from a RenKai-traitor group based Boss. Just to switch out your racial augments. Then he will allow you to pay to swap out one of yours for one from his race. Once. But repeatable.
If you really want it, you can go get it.
They are, but it does seem as if the current plan is to do away with racial differentiators other than aesthetics.
Racial augments haven't been mentioned for years, and in that time Steven has mentioned that background choices in Ashes will function much the same as racial traits in other games.
So, the best assumption to make is that we don't have confirmation either way - though it does appear as if Steven wants racial choice in Ashes to be almost completely about aesthetics.
In other words, I don't buy into the popular definition of "best."
It's just how you like to play.
They can partly negate the need to balance it heavily by not locking you into one choice in the first place.
What would make you like the background system more? Perhaps besides simply less of a mechanical importance?
Also, awesome thought-starter in your OP
I have two ideas:
1. Have the benefits of the background earnable by everyone. Hard to say without knowing what the background system entails, but say you can pick the "Soldier" background, representing your past life on Sanctus. As a result of this choice, you start with a sword, shield, heavy armor, and a few free points in your active block skill tree. These benefits would be regardless of your archetype choice, and since they're all things technically available to everyone, it isn't locking you into anything. I think this would be the simplest way to implement a fair background system, and give players a jump start into their playstyle of choice. It's kind of boring though.
2. Make the benefits of the background only relevant early in the game. These could be exclusive things to that background, like maybe the "Priest" background gives you a trinket that can be used to give a flat shield. As you level it would become less and less useful. Or even an augment, something that doesn't scale well but is useful early on, maybe the "Cultist" background grants an augment that causes an ability to heal you for 20hp when that ability causes a killing blow. Useful early on for sustain, but such a paltry number by higher levels that it won't be useful anymore. Narratively, it would be like symbolizing your character moving on from their old life and embracing the magic Verra has granted them when you finally replace that augment or trinket.
I personally am a fan of Uniqueness. And by this i mean: if a class or race have X skill or augment, then no other class or race should have the same. And also tbh racial abilities should be things that make sense for the particular racial. For example the Ren Kai beliefs are Honor. Power. Tranquility. So some power boost augment would not be appropriate for another race which beliefs are completely different.
So i think that every race should have unique augments that cant be taken by other races.
And to solve the problems the OP introduced by his comment - AOC can provide racial change option.
For example once every 3 months PER ACCOUNT, you get chance to change 1 character race (months you didnt buy game time subscription dont count). This way it wont be abused by constant race swaps, but still if you think you made mistake by choosing particular race you will be able to fix the problem by time.
Or it can be once per character. So once you reach max level you get free race change for this character. You use it however or whenever you want, but you wont get second race change for this character ever.
Yeah, but what if I don't want to change my race? What if I like the look of the one I already am? The problem as I see it is that a mechanical choice is tied to an aesthetic one.
I dont see what you trying to point out.. If you dont want to change your race then you dont change it. And the free change chance stays till at 1 moment after for example 5 years you decide that you want to change it.
Or you mean you want to have access to Augment X from particular race while playing other race because of the aesthetics? For this as i said - I dont think its lore accurate to put race that is more into peace or traditions and ect to be able to use abilities for race that is more into POWER. It doesnt make sense for all races to have same augments or abilities when the race lore is completely different.
And if you are into aesthetics then you should be into Lore as well.. Or this is just me? In my experience there are players that will pick race for best skill, and people who will pick race fore the looks and lore. But havent heard of those who want the looks without any care for the lore
Especially when it comes to Backrounds - which might not be about Race at all.
We'll have to learn more details about the current vision for Racial Augments.
The backgrounds are about how the race lived, what places they inhabited, how they survived. And this shapes the race and the things they should excel in. If 1 race have survived by being hunters trough generations, then the race skills/augments should reflect this. And it wont make sense for other race that were farmers for example to have the same skill.
I will racially/culturally "augment" my Dwarv-Ladies Beard' (lol) to be like a "Magic Ward" - like it happened to "Senshi" from Dungeon Meshi.
The amazing Chef/Cook who always got drips/splashs of "fat" into his Beard when he was grilling something and it turned his Beard into a Shield against magic.
Advantage : +90% reduced Damage from ALL Scources/Attacks/Spells of Magic.
Disadvantage : +90% reduced "Healing" as well
Since pretty much ALL of our Abilities in Verra will be Essence-based - this would be quite the funny AND chaotic Augmentation.
I am aware some People would say this is overpowered. And others would see it as what it is. A goofy State/Augmentation useful mostly for fooling around.
✓ Occasional Roleplayer
✓ Kinda starting to look for a Guild right now. (German)
Steven's examples were:
"I'm an Orphan who was raised in the Temple"
"I'm a Street Urchin."
Like Dygz said, the racial differences are more culture than physical attributes. Everyone is basically a human of a different size/color/ear shape.
The things you describe also sound cultural. Why can't a Py'Rai learn and embrace Ren'kai traditions? Learn the way they live, and in doing so gain the skills/augments that the culture provides?
I mean...there are clear physical differences across the Races of Verra. To say the only difference between them should be cultural is a bit of a reach. Big buff Ren Kai at a glance would clearly be physically stronger than the lithe looking Elf races. While on the other hands the elves look more likely to be more agile.
What is wrong with the concept of racial augment physical trait differences between clearly physically different races in a game?
Sure there are physical differences that you could use for augments, I'm just saying that they're more culturally distinct than physically distinct. Not that there's a total absence of physical distinctiveness.
My opposition to physical trait augments is that they're harder to justify a means for other races to earn them if such a system existed.
I mean, I personally disagree with allowing different races to use other racial traits simply because it takes away significance of choice. Whats so special about the dwarfs racial traits if any other race can also use it? It makes the decision of choosing a race exponentially less important. And while I dont necessarily prioritize immersion, it would definitely be immersion breaking seeing an orc with dwarf or elf traits, even just culturally.
WDYM by this? All races are definitely not Human variations. You want to say that orcs, elfs, dwarfs and even tulnar are human variations?
Let me give you example: (wont use Humans for the example coz this will be racism): So you have Black bears, White bears, Brown bears which live in different places, eat different foods, the weather they live in is different. And you want to tell me that all those 3 types of bears are the same? and each can do what the other can? And this is when all are BEARS! So Kaelar will be a lot different from Vaelune which are the 2 human races. Let alone orcs elfs and dwarfs.
The way you live shapes what you are. Live organisms adapt to the environment to survive. Thats why in every climate zone you see completely different organisms. And dont get me wrong. I by this i dont mean that if you live like a fish from birth that you will become fish till you get old. This is evolution which is slow process and takes many generations for the adaptation to happen.
Taurens got their annoying stamp which barely did anything but was a good spell interrupter.
If you were Alliance, you would never try to stun an Orc in PvP due to their insane stunresist, you chose another Horde fighter instead.
Forsaken could nom nom corpses and heal up with it.
Trolls had a funny racial too which was super strong or weak according to situation.
Humans had an incredibly useful ability to spot "invisible" Rogues & Druids every 3 minutes or so.
Dwarfenpriests had the Fear Ward. ( LoL )
Nightelves can still turn invisible to this day and get the first hit in very often.
Male Gnomes still look so ugly that looking at them feels like you were punished even if you kill them in PvP.
Ah yes. Good times... when I still cared about the game.
This isn't a dig on Intrepid's race design. These are celebrated fantasy races and I wouldn't want it any different.
The point I'm trying to make is that their key differences are cultural. The identity of a Ren'kai is centered around honor, power, and tranquility. These are cultural ideals, not physical traits. That I know of, there's no reason Kaelar Kevin couldn't live among the Ren'kai and adopt ideals of honor, power, and tranquility. If a Ren'kai's racial abilities/augments were centered around honor, power, and tranquility, which I think they should be if they exist, then it stands to reason that Kaelar Kevin would be able to learn these racials too, given sufficient effort.
Stats are different than Backgrounds.
Stats are also different than Racial Augments.
But... we still have to learn the current status of Racial Augments.
It's a Dev decision.
(I think even Tulnar are technically humanoid.)
Fair points but in my opinion it's a bit of a cop out to wave it away with that reasoning.
It really does come down to if devs want racials to be more important or less important in regards to permanence of decisions.
I'd argue my stance saying that just like choosing your class for it's abilities, a race choice should be a similar importance of choice.
While in a more "casual" approach to game design, some players will see that as forcing decisions on themselves for the sake of the meta.
As super-f~in annoying Tauren and ESPECIALLY Orc-Racial was in WoW-Vanilla, giving the Horde a very strong and huge Ability to push forward depending on the competence of the Horde-Players,
jeah that was something else.
That was something else ENTIRELY !! When Nightelves had the strongest Stealth and could even turn invisible no matter the Class in different Situations,
Humans could spot these ever-annoying, ever-lurking and sneaking Forsaken-Rogues best,
and Dwarf-Priests had a Middlefinger against this constant Fear-Spam for a somewhat decisive Moment and as a Forsaken you could eat humanoid Corpses - which was awesome and even cool for gruesome Roleplay.
It was awesome. Just awesome.
✓ Occasional Roleplayer
✓ Kinda starting to look for a Guild right now. (German)
Looks can tell a lot about a specie. Like the green skin is something you wont find on mammals, but is very common on cold-blooded animals. This may imply that the green orcs are connected with water and may even find difficulties controlling their body temperature, which may cause them to take more dmg from cold or fire sources.
If i follow your example - Gorillas are humans also right? just more furry no other differences right? When we are at it Pandas look like some dna modified humans right? What about prehistorical humans? They have no differences with modern humans right?
Honestly you make 0 sense at all. 0 base knowledge about the world.
If they were all humanoids then they would be sub races of the Human race. not Elf or dwarf race. And while we are at it - Yes even different races of humans nowadays have big differences that are not just looks,
But ofc the differences between human races in real world is not that great since we all eat the same foods, study same subjects, work similar jobs (talking about a race, not individuals here), So our way of life is not that different. And even so there are huge differences between the races