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Alpha Two Phase II testing is currently taking place 5+ days each week. More information about testing schedule can be found here
If you have Alpha Two, you can download the game launcher here, and we encourage you to join us on our Official Discord Server for the most up to date testing news.
đź“ť Dev Discussion #71 - Spells & Abilities âš”
Dev Discussions are an opportunity to join in on player discussions about topics that Intrepid Studios want to hear your thoughts on. This is less about asking us questions, and more about us asking YOU the questions! If you do have questions about Ashes of Creation, keep an eye our social media channels for our monthly livestreams, check out the Ashes of Creation community wiki, or try the #questions channel in Discord!
In this thread, we’ll be discussing:
Dev Discussion - Spells and Abilities
What is the best ability or spell you’ve used and why? Which spells or abilities stand out the most to you from games you’ve played in the past? What made them special to you?
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Comments
Overwatch:
Reinhardt/Brigitte Shield:
These abilities stand out because they are basically extra resources that you have to carefully manage. These shields have their own health bar, which have a slow regen that ramps up over time when not in use. If the shields health bar drops to 0, then the shield temporarily breaks, and has a cooldown until it can be used again, making you more vulnerable. Even though blocking is a universal skill in ashes, I believe that a skill like this would help the tanks blocking capability shine.
League of Legends:
Taric Ult:
This ability can be simplified into a delayed invincibility for yourself and your party. When you cast the ability, it takes a couple seconds to take effect, and then prevents the targets from taking damage for a couple seconds. This encourages careful planning, and allows the tank to provide value to their whole group. In PvP, it can cause people to need to divert their attention to the tank in order to cancel the ability, and in PvE, it can allow the Tank to block powerful AoE mechanics if timed well.
Camille/J4 Ult:
These abilities create terrain/barriers around the user, preventing their target from escaping if they are close to the caster. This is a powerful control tool, and I imagine it could work well as a spec to the current Wall ability.
Orianna Ult:
This ability creates a "suction force" around the caster, pulling targets toward them. This is a very satisfying ability to land, and would act as a clumping tool for the tank, allowing the tank to assist their group who will be casting AoE abilities.
Nasus Abilities:
All of Nasus's abilities are very satisfying to use. His Wither spell causes the target to slow their movement and attack speed. His Spirit Fire spell shreds the targets armor. His ult is a stat steroid for his health, armor, and magic resist, and also increases his character size. His Wither feels fun to use, as it is a powerful control tool, and minimizes the chance for enemies to escape. Spirit Fire feels very impactful, as it allows Nasus to perform some extra damage, even though he is a tank. It also gives the Tank more value to the group, as it would allow other martial DPS classes to take advantage of the armor shred. Finally, the ult is the ability that stands out to me the most, as it makes the Tank feel like a true raid boss, especially with the character size increase.
Smite:
Ares: No Escape:
The reason this ability stands out is because it puts the tank at the focal point, and allows the team to follow up on the tanks actions, making them feel like a play maker.
Marks need to be more powerful if our class is going to revolve around it.
No hate here- only hoping it gets better!
In overall terms, personally, I've been enjoying Fireball and Conflagrate a lot. Fireball is simple but the visuals are solid and the roar followed by the explosive whump of the impact are good, and it being a very damage-heavy single target ability means that if it does crit, it's going to crit big. That plus a good setup for feeding into Conflagrate means a satisfying hit from the Fireball into seeing great big chunks of HP getting ripped off mobs by Conflagrating.
As far as complaints could go, I very strongly wish that it was possible to customize the appearance of debuffs on enemy portraits so that it would be easier to track, or at the very least that personally applied debuffs were visible. It would additionally be nice to see some form of extra clarity in how Burning works with the different damage percent amounts for different abilities and how they work with burn being a stackable debuff. That said, overall visibility of debuffs on enemies feels like it's currently lacking and can get very cluttered quickly, and the ability to set certain debuffs to be larger or take priority in the listing would be incredibly useful.
I am not certain that I have any one favorite spell but what I do really like is how the mage spells play off each other with the various elements. It is refreshing to set up combinations based on different status effects for additional damage where we are not just mindlessly spamming a skill without having to think.
I've played many games, and Warrior (Fighter) was always the kind of frontline character that might solo most of the content, relying on potent damage, mobility and defence. They rarely excel in either, but won't be toppled easily by others. The best representation was the ability of warrior to wield dual-wielded and dual swords, changing their attacks based on the type of weapon. It might even be one type of weapon; just split it into two parts. That was epic. Like Varian Wrynn in WoW, for supreme example, so to say.
Still, as I only play Fighter in Alpha Two, I might point out that the class is too squishy here for its role. I believe a Fighter should be a frontline warrior who is feared (in close quarters) by all.
And Blood Fusion shows that, albeit partially and somewhat imbalanced against large crowds, but otherwise with little use considering its CD.
Currently, it is just a lifesteal-based class that can do little compared to other DPS. The spin attack isn't exactly satisfying for me, even if it's kind of a canon in RPG.
Half of the warrior kit seems disjointed, and only bleeding + bloodfusion seems viable. I think it's just one extreme.
The attack that reaches you regardless of distance, even if they're supposed to be melee, makes a form of Celesity, for example, even less viable.
I can see the potential, though, so keep it up.
Perfect class skills for Trickster or Charlatan in AoC.
Two things comes to mind. Lost Ark. The spells felt big, powerful, and they were beautiful. Even if an attack isn't strong, it can still feel epic to use. As a mage I actually like sticking to one element (Fire) instead of being forced into all the elements. That's just not the immersion I enjoy most of the time.
Seperately from flashy fire magic spells, Functionally something I like is DoT and Consume DoT spells. D3 Witch Doctor you could apply lots of DoT and then consume them to do all the damage at once and Nuke. It's such a awesome feeling. And if you don't Nuke, things still die their slow DoT deaths while you kite. GW2 also does DoTs well where something like the Necro can apply all the DoTs instead of just one type. Seeing your enemies health bar filled up with DoTs and ailments always feels so good and watching those little tics fly by the tens or hundreds.
I usually main a mage in every game I play and personally I prefer AOE and utility. I dislike spamming fireball or one single spell. Using multiple elements/ Arcane would be preferred based on visuals etc.
Not one single ability comes to mind, but visually how I could imagine a mage and what it would look and feel like is best shown through Dragons Dogma 1/2.
The lightning spells feel and sound crisp in the mages arsenal, they feel very mage like. Except for ball lightning it does good damage and isn't a bad spell, but it lacks the crisp sounds and visuals and precision that the other lightning effects have.
Which spells or abilities stand out the most to you from games you’ve played in the past?
EQ1 Necromancer - Darkness spells i.e. "clinging" or clawing darkness", the visuals were subtle"darkness binding the feet and streaming off of the eyes. The effects were fantastic, and in PvP it reduced vision and snared the target.
DAoC Runecaster - "Pulsing Blade Turn" or pbt for short, pbt would form a translucent golden bubble around all party members every approximately 8-10 seconds that would deflect the next melee or ranged attack the visuals on it were top notch, similar to shell, and it added a layer of utility to a DPS class that promoted class diversity in groups.
WoW - Death Knight, "Defile" - an ape of unholy energy that grows in size for every tick it hits someone in it. It was both a devastating attack from a boss, and fun being able to cast it as a player. Having an ability that was exclusively from a boss in the previous expansion was so much fun, too bad they ruined the combat and talents in wow.
What made them special to you?
Darkness spells were an essential part of the necromancers identity, they helped snare and control mobs in the battlefield allowing the necromancer to really shine in what they were designed to do, do just enough DMG to heal themselves control the mobs and allow their pet to be a major part of their identity.
Pulsing Blade Turn allowed a high hitting (mage) DPS to provide utility to groups against melee centric enemies and negate damage, but as the buff didn't stack it promoted build and group diversity. (Rogues had attacks to pierce PBT negating the effect from stealth)
Defile is just an all around iconic effect it is the antithesis of the holy ground. It spreads like a disease and the visuals while subtle give a sense of creeping decay. The spell it's self was rather weak because of the combat changes applied in the game, but could be combined with a snare or debuffs to increase potency.
My top played game for last year in play time was bauldurs gate 3, and I have around 800 hours. Some of my favorite spells in there were:
Wall of Ice: (it lasted 60s (10 turns)) and did damage/crowed control/area control
Misty Step (positioning) You can teleport yourself to anywhere unobstructed you can see within range.
Favorite from FFXIV was back when I used to play about 10 years ago, one of the mage classes had it. It was sort of like a bink out of existence and into the aether (or something like that) for about 2 seconds, and during that time you couldnt be snared or take damage (or be targeted). It lead to some super clutch saves on boss mechanics and in close fights where you could time it just right to avoid the hit. It would also separate the good ones from the mid when it came to damage avoidance.
From Dark Arisen:
https://dragonsdogma.fandom.com/wiki/High_Bolide
Meteor shower!!
Flourish. Beautiful skill, ties togheter the skill tree. Flexible, double usage, istant cast, weaves togheter with other skills, doesn't cost points to take. Brilliant design.
In phase 1 I've played mage.
I liked Hoarfrost very much, because synergy is more important than damage imho, long range, istant cast
* chef's kiss *
CLICCA QUI PER UNIRTI ALL'ORDINE
Favorite spell in ashes - Tank reflect. Especially with the added knockdown. I love that it requires knowledge of enemy kit.
Dragon's Breath, could even branch into 2 options, one doing something like procing aoe conflag on burning targets and then the other making it a cc ability but losing most of its damage
Overall, a lot of the class mobility skills feel really good
Ball lightning I know its super popular but it feels incomplete like it needs destination when you cast and dissipate after reaching it. You kinda just send it out to the great beyond, like im pretty sure no class has a spell that goes out as far as ball lightning.
Rune of Power, amazing, love to see a talent that reduces the effect or duration to make it mobile.
I'm sure it's in the works but, some classes lack any sort of kick for casts outside of hard cc or weapon procs. Could be intended not sure, slumber works but something like a counter spell would be nice.
(Firestarters hurt)
Got a boosted bard on the test before p2 and the amount of depth in that class already at 1-25 is insane whoever developed it fucking cooked.
I'm not sure which class can utilize this mechanic, im thinking summoner, ranger or mage. it would be cool that a class doesnt really have many AOE spells but can deal a lot of AOE dmg through the infection.
Not an ability, and hopefully I'm talking about intentional movement design but I really love how if you jump roll, you get a super fluid animation that gives extra distance. I love the dodge rolling in the game.
I love mobility, being slippery - playing chess matches in combat basically. However, having too many movement abilities results in need for gap closers, and then combat suffers for any class that doesn't have them. So definitely agree they should be super limited, and longer CD abilities.
I like the animation of the ranger's disengage - it looks cool to use, and looks even cooler to see someone use it.
For AoC best spell I have used is probably Prismatic Beam. Its very versatile, making you choose what is best for given moment, its visually poping and has great synergy with your whole kit.
Which spells or abilities stand out the most to you from games you’ve played in the past?
For other games I especailly ones focused on party play probably whole Ragnarok Online has great set of spells for every class allowing you to spec to different builds, preparing you for different encounters and keeping your spells very in line of your class perserving its identity.
What made them special to you?
Its great how everything work together there, everyone has their role in a party and you aren't locked to one, each class by respecing can be used to something else but not to ridiculous degeree.
What would be your perfect spell system?
What AoC has is a great start but I would love to introduce some twists and turns for spells. Like modify slots? Runes that would change how your spell works, that could have different rarities. For example Multiply Fire rune that could be slotted to fireball that would make it split into multiple fireballs or even Fire Rain that would change the spell from beeing cast from in front to be directed on the ground and make it rain
Ride the Lightning, a movement ability for Elementalist in GW2. I liked it just cause it was a really good mobility spell, fast and responsive, does a little damage. And crucially, it could be used with or without a target, so you can get max distance without a target, or quickly gap-close and stop at the target. Worked really well in action-camera mode.
Afflatus Misery, an instant-cast nuke for White Mage in FFXIV. Everybody loves this ability. It's just a really chunky nuke, that you are rewarded with after using 3 "Afflatus" heals. I have to explain a little though... Because of FFXIV's heavy focus on DPS and GCD economy, it normally feels bad to waste time with GCD heals, and other healers try to stick with oGCDs instead, when possible. But WHM, being the simplest healer, has two core healing spells on the GCD (Afflatus Solace and Afflatus Rapture), which they use all the time. And this was the devs solution to allow WHM to cast those GCD heals and still get damage out of it. So basically, Afflatus Misery makes the healing kit feel more satisfying, despite being a super simple nuke on it's own. Also, did I mention it feels really chunky? (Good visuals and sound effect are important. For all of these. Of course.)
Honorable mention to the dozens of other "finisher" abilities you get as a reward for doing a rotation correctly. It's a good paradigm. Never gets old.
The best...
https://throneandliberty.gameslantern.com/skills/chaotic-shield
Why:
I play archetypes in gaming where perfect awareness, positioning and reactions are required but have relatively big payoffs.
This is the best MMO version of it, for me, because it expanded so much beyond what I could do with https://ffxiclopedia.fandom.com/wiki/Utsusemi while still giving much of the same feeling (relative to what the game's base gameplay is)
This single, perfectly designed skill allows me to tank all the same 'single target melee' enemies, frontline against many bosses that rely on attritive 'chunk damage' flows, surprise enemies in PvP with complex strategies involving restoring my teammates, accelerate entire damage structures, and feel the active version of 'managing shadows'. I could go on about the nuances of Chaotic Shield for hours.
Which spells or abilities stand out the most to you from games you’ve played in the past?
For this question I should clarify that when I think 'stand out' I am not referring to 'things that I have mentally slotted as 'personal' archetypal skills. MMOs abilities are, after all, just designers finding ways to provide people with expressions of things they already 'see themselves doing' for the imaginative. Most people of a particular archetype seek the same sorts of things across many games, etc, to the point where I think a really fleshed out game that has been allowed to have a lot of options/complexity will contain almost all of it.
For MMOs, for me, this is now Throne and Liberty, and FF11 also gets to share that spot for much the same reason. You could 'take TL's combat design' and 'put it into FF' and I would not need to change anything. Even MMOs can't let me have everything though (well, until TL, now I can), for that, you have to go to very specific implementations of Pathfinder (or custom TTRPGs) or reference this movelist (I don't suggest doing that) and then add healing to all of it:
https://wiki.gbl.gg/w/Under_Night_In-Birth/UNI2/Seth
So, with all that preamble, moving on to 'things I find interesting and impactful that aren't mostly just the MMO versions of stuff I play everywhere else:
https://ffxiclopedia.fandom.com/wiki/Auspice
Would take as long to explain as Chaotic Shield, honestly.
https://ffxiclopedia.fandom.com/wiki/Trick_Attack
Knowing how and when to use this, combined with the fact that you can use it on any melee damage instance, has a specific feeling to it that is incredibly hard to replicate outside of something in Monster Hunter World that is also borderline impossible to explain.
(honestly everything past here is again, just 'stuff I do in other games, but these ones are listed because within the game they are from, they're 'defining', i.e. I could not play the way I want without them but they're not just super obvious)
https://armoredcore.fandom.com/wiki/Rockets
Specifically the ECM ones. This obviously isn't an MMO spell/ability but as noted, they're all the same to me. The ECM rockets debuff your opponent's ability to lock onto you, which makes you somewhat immune to missiles and makes targeting with most weapons meaningfully harder if you are fast. Same thing in Elite Dangerous as an 'augment' on my Plasma Accelerator.
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Larcenous_Strike
It's in the name.
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Basilisk_Venom
Same but moreso.
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Distracting_Daggers
Another reward for prediction ability and timing, in TL and FF I have to work harder for this and perfectly time a Sleep skill/spell, which I don't prefer at all.
I can't really think of more, probably because I specialize in 'having a lot of tools that must be used/timed perfectly', but the tools themselves are simpler and therefore convergent design does the rest.
What made them special to you?
Obviously the answer is 'I like what they do', and I don't think there's any way to justify that other than 'I'm me, so I like things that are me-like'. But I do have a deeper answer.
A child playing pretend (or an adult, we don't discriminate here, obviously) has a specific perception of themselves, and in an RPG, (TTRPGs are probably the best starting point) want to visualize themselves doing specific things. Setting aside all the 'I want to be powerful' and 'I don't want to lose/be mocked' decisions, if the game offers a path to that style, they take it, they become comfortable, they enjoy it. (there are some that like to be everything and play a lot of alts, I don't have any useful opinion on that).
Tabletop games with high flexibility, Trading Card games with high flexibility, Action RPGs with high flexibility, MMORPGs with high flexibility... they're all the same in the end:
Find the path to being the thing,
Make do when the game doesn't allow a part of it,
Rejoice in the feeling of expression,
Lament when your self has been designed in a weak form,
Or for others when you have been designed in too strong a form,
The Night Blade wanders, the Basilisk's Venom cleaves,
The Moonlight breath of the Draconic High Priestess,
Brings solace or death.
-Reaper form (Necromancer) and the whole skillset while its active.
-Core Mesmer abilities
-Soulbeast pet mechanics, which I would leave if you ever decide to add Druids(Shapeshifters) as augment.
-Spellbreaker's Full Counter ability
-Core Guardian Hammer abilities-Glacial Blow, Mighty Blow and Banish when used in conjunction with each other.
2. World of Warcraft
-Shaman Totems. Creates a very unique playstyle and fun playstyle.
-Shapeshifting as an ability is fun, but I would leave that just in case you want to give us Druid class in distant future.
-Entire WoTLK's paladin skills set. Feeling of using Hammer of Wrath as a finisher is unmatched.
-Hunter's Feign Death. Beauty of it is that whomever targets you, stops targeting you.
-Mind Control. Hilarious if used properly....
-Penance is a nice offensive/healing spell.
-Army of the Dead
-Warlock's pet Succubus, Seduction spell
Frankly, WoW utility spells is where you get most of your class identity and that uniqueness makes them fun (Water Walking, Water Breathing, Eagle Eye, Far Sight, Slow Fall, Ritual of Summoning, Portals). You feel needed.
3. Black Desert
Beast Master/Tamer abilities that you share with your pet.
4. If you really want some unique and fun abilities, you should look at MOBA's.
For example,
I love Janus abilities from Smite that turn your damaging spells into portal...
Ratatoskr ult
Dota 2, Juggernaut, Omnislash is extremely satisfying to see
Dota 2, Ball Lightning, Storm Spirit
Dota 2, Pangolier, Swashbuckle. Perfect for your Duelist class
Dota 2, Spectre, Spectral Dagger (After effects are interesting)
Dota 2, Faceless Void, Chronosphere
LoL, Fiora, Riposte ability. Perfect for your Duelist class