The system is almost a copy of L2's with some changes to fix what he saw were issues with its system. If you want a comparison, it's going to be like L2.
Why are you asking if it's going to be like other games when there is one it's copying?
1: Most of the Lead devs from 2017-2021 came from SOE/Daybreak/EQ/EQ2.
And it seemed likely they would want to retain the MMORPG players who play on EQ/EQ2 PvE-Only servers but are OK with some PvP. I'm not aware of Steven hiring devs who worked on Lineage 2.
2: The Node system seemed to me to be a simplified version of EQNext’s StoryBricks.
And with so many IS devs from SOE/Daybreak/EQ/EQ2, again, it seemed likely they would want to retain the MMORPG players who play on EQ/EQ2 PvE-Only servers but are OK with some PvP and who were interested in EQNext.
3: On the EQNext Forums, we never learned what the plan was to get PvPers and PvEers to be content playing on the same servers before EQNext became vaporware. Steven’s answer was that Corruption should work because it is a harsher form of Karma.
4: I don't think I've ever heard Steven or anyone else reference L2 when discussing Nodes or Sieges.
When L2 gamers discuss L2 in relation to Ashes, it is typically comparing Corruption to Karma.
5: I think Liniker is correct in saying that Steven referenced EvE and ArcheAge enough in 2017 and early 2018 for me to wonder if Ashes is intended to be as PvP-centric as those games.
Again... the only thing I know about L2 is that L2 players say that Corruption is harsher than Karma and Karma worked well enough to curtail PKing in L2 that PvP should feel comfortable for any player doesn't hate PvP so much they never want to experience PvP.
I know that EvE and ArcheAge are too PvP-centric for me. Which is why I asked for a comparison for the games I know something about. But, notice the first question I asked was for Steven to name some games that are a "murderbox" (his term).
He said that sometimes Lineage could be a murderbox, but Ashes should not be as much of a murderbox as L2 due to Corruption.
6: Steven has never said, AFAIK, "Ashes is basically just a copy of L2. We are making Ashes for the gamers who loved L2, just Corruption is a bit harsher. If you didn't like the adrenaline rush of L2, you probably won't like Risk v Reward of Ashes."
7: I was not asking Steven to compare systems. I was asking Steven to compare how prevalent PvP was expected to be.
Yes. What he provided is the answer to what L2 gamers considered to be the problem with PvP in L2 - too much PKing. But I did not ask Steven to compare the amount of PKing in Ashes with the amount of PKing in EvE and ArcheAge and L2.
If memory serves, you were(maybe still are?) a game developer (QA?). You should know that where the developers came from means nothing. Steven was not from daybreak. He is the product owner, the one that decides what they are developing.
When it comes to game comparisons, think of it from his perspective though, he plays games with pvp and notices the differences. You have played none of the games you asked him to compare his game to so you don't understand the differences. Since he knows the differences, he is hesitant to say it will be like either of those games because of how his game will be different.
Yes, it's not a copy of L2 but it's also not a copy of Eve or archeage. That said, when talking about the PVP system, the system you seem to be most worried about, it's closest to what they have in L2 so if you really need to compare, it's probably where you should look.
The PvP depends on how corruption is balanced.
When Alpha 2 ends, it could be harsh.
The game could be closer to PvE than PvP.
Actually I find it quite unlikely Steven to start with a harsh corruption and to make it more lenient toward the end of Alpha, to encourage PvP everywhere.
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DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
edited August 2023
Um…
1: Steven is not a game dev.
2: Steven hired a bunch of leads from EQ/EQ2.
So, while one person hired might not make a difference. I expect a bunch of devs as leads on a game in the same game genre to be interested in retaining the playerbase that worked on their previous game.
3: Ashes Nodes system seems like a simplified version of EQNext.
4: I don’t know anything about L2, so I cannot think of Ashes from the perspective of L2 gamers.
5: Steven answered my question well enough in 2018. At that time, Ashes game design did not have any permanent zones that auto-flag to (Corruption-free) FFA PVP.
The moment Steven announced, a year ago, that they made a significant change to the game design - adding the Open Seas as a permanent zone that auto-flags to (Corruption-free) FFA PVP, I placed Ashes in the same category as EvE Online and ArcheAge.
That change occurred after the EQ/EQ2 leads left IS and a year after Steven began acting as Lead Game Designer.
Which is OK.
But when people ask why were you thinking you might play after launch right up until the announcement of the Open Seas - that’s the answer.
6: Also, after the EQ/EQ2 Leas devs left IS and Steven took over as Lead Game Designer is when Steven began to, more and more, stress the adrenaline rush of Risk v Reward being tied to every aspect of the game, rather than discussing Meaningful Conflict.
Meaningful Conflict is a hype for me.
Obsession with Risk v Reward is anti-hype for me.
7: If you look at the Wiki, you will see now that it says EvE Online and ArcheAge and L2 are inspirations for Ashes, so I’m not sure why it would be surprising for me to ask Steven to compare the levels of PvP he hopes Ashes will have with the levels of PvP in those games.
8: If Ashes did not have so many Lead devs from EQ/EQ2 and if Steven had always been the Lead Game Designer and if the Node system did not seem to be a simplified version of EQNext’s StoryBricks, I would have had 0 interest in backing the Ashes Kickstarter.
(I also notice that we’ve had no updates on Nodes since the EQ/EQ2 left IS and that our new info on Nodes will be coming a few months after another EQ/EQ2 dev becomes Lead Game Designer.
Which could be coincidence, but again makes it seem to me that the Nodes system is a simplified version of StoryBricks.)
Working on one type of mmo does not dictate those people are not keen to work on a mmorpg that targets a different type of audience. How do you know they had no ambition to do to in the first place but corpo's didn't think that type of project would generate money and now it is their chance to do so. Or hearing Steven's vision were on board with it to begin with.
We are playing with a lot of assumptions they want to make the same game....That is more in lines with pantheon on being the same type of game.
Another thing... we are going back to this convo again. Based on the years Steven has been working he is a game developer now...trying to argue he isn't is silly when that is the job he is doing and his creative vision. If you want to argue he bought himself in, or he lacks 15 years experience before you can judge him as a experienced game developer you are free to do that. If you look at lead positions you can see some suggest having 8 years experience in the field give or take. AoC has been in development for about 7 years as far as we know. To say he isn't a developer you are saying he hasn't spent time growing and learning through the years of the project and as well not taking an active role int he development based on being a creative director. @Dygz.
We are long fast saying if he is or isn't the work is showing, what matters is the success and overcoming the experience one lacks with the issue that can come up.
To use another example on this gate keeping mentality (most likely stuff you don't watch) we have youtube boxers that are fighting professional fighters. They have been doing it for around 5 years and some people say they aren't fighters while doing the spot and taking it seriously and winning such fights. Simply because someone started in a certain position/ profession does not mean they aren't what they are doing if they are taking it seriously and producing content. At a certain point you do have to respect the work someone is putting in, as a professional that is something you should definitely understand, and also see the passion going into it.
"On the other hand it is a little curious to get rid of the team that is uniquely expert in making Fable, and then try and make Fable. Fable is a weird game, and a tough one to deconstruct for a new team. That said, the team in question is very talented, and I'm sure they'll do a fantastic job."
From the article.
Microsoft does this often. It has gone well precisely once, and that was debatable.
"On the other hand it is a little curious to get rid of the team that is uniquely expert in making Fable, and then try and make Fable. Fable is a weird game, and a tough one to deconstruct for a new team. That said, the team in question is very talented, and I'm sure they'll do a fantastic job."
From the article.
Microsoft does this often. It has gone well precisely once, and that was debatable.
My hot take here is therefore 'RIP Fable'.
Im not even trying to talk about fable i was just suing it as an example lmao. Im guessing the game was close to your heart when you were younger?
"On the other hand it is a little curious to get rid of the team that is uniquely expert in making Fable, and then try and make Fable. Fable is a weird game, and a tough one to deconstruct for a new team. That said, the team in question is very talented, and I'm sure they'll do a fantastic job."
From the article.
Microsoft does this often. It has gone well precisely once, and that was debatable.
My hot take here is therefore 'RIP Fable'.
Im not even trying to talk about fable i was just suing it as an example lmao. Im guessing the game was close to your heart when you were younger?
You guess a lot.
If you haven't realized by now, I study games. I study them very hard. I ask that you try to consider that when talking to me, if possible. It may help you to not make unnecessary assumptions about my feelings or reasonings.
"On the other hand it is a little curious to get rid of the team that is uniquely expert in making Fable, and then try and make Fable. Fable is a weird game, and a tough one to deconstruct for a new team. That said, the team in question is very talented, and I'm sure they'll do a fantastic job."
From the article.
Microsoft does this often. It has gone well precisely once, and that was debatable.
My hot take here is therefore 'RIP Fable'.
Im not even trying to talk about fable i was just suing it as an example lmao. Im guessing the game was close to your heart when you were younger?
You guess a lot.
If you haven't realized by now, I study games. I study them very hard. I ask that you try to consider that when talking to me, if possible. It may help you to not make unnecessary assumptions about my feelings or reasonings.
Assuming you care, that is.
Have you played fable, what ones did you play. Did you enjoy the gameplay, did your enjoy the story. Were you younger when you played the game, or did you only play it later?
Everyone makes assumptions in appearance, in emotion, in words. That should not be a surprise, we have our thoughts with out outlook. Through disccusion things become more clear. So i will still have my assumptions when interaction with people, does not mean I'm going to stick to them no matter what, as they will grow and change through talking / interaction.
"On the other hand it is a little curious to get rid of the team that is uniquely expert in making Fable, and then try and make Fable. Fable is a weird game, and a tough one to deconstruct for a new team. That said, the team in question is very talented, and I'm sure they'll do a fantastic job."
From the article.
Microsoft does this often. It has gone well precisely once, and that was debatable.
My hot take here is therefore 'RIP Fable'.
Im not even trying to talk about fable i was just suing it as an example lmao. Im guessing the game was close to your heart when you were younger?
You guess a lot.
If you haven't realized by now, I study games. I study them very hard. I ask that you try to consider that when talking to me, if possible. It may help you to not make unnecessary assumptions about my feelings or reasonings.
Assuming you care, that is.
Have you played fable, what ones did you play. Did you enjoy the gameplay, did your enjoy the story. Were you younger when you played the game, or did you only play it later?
Everyone makes assumptions in appearance, in emotion, in words. That should not be a surprise, we have our thoughts with out outlook. Through disccusion things become more clear. So i will still have my assumptions when interaction with people, does not mean I'm going to stick to them no matter what, as they will grow and change through talking / interaction.
"On the other hand it is a little curious to get rid of the team that is uniquely expert in making Fable, and then try and make Fable. Fable is a weird game, and a tough one to deconstruct for a new team. That said, the team in question is very talented, and I'm sure they'll do a fantastic job."
From the article.
Microsoft does this often. It has gone well precisely once, and that was debatable.
My hot take here is therefore 'RIP Fable'.
Im not even trying to talk about fable i was just suing it as an example lmao. Im guessing the game was close to your heart when you were younger?
You guess a lot.
If you haven't realized by now, I study games. I study them very hard. I ask that you try to consider that when talking to me, if possible. It may help you to not make unnecessary assumptions about my feelings or reasonings.
Assuming you care, that is.
Have you played fable, what ones did you play. Did you enjoy the gameplay, did your enjoy the story. Were you younger when you played the game, or did you only play it later?
Everyone makes assumptions in appearance, in emotion, in words. That should not be a surprise, we have our thoughts with out outlook. Through disccusion things become more clear. So i will still have my assumptions when interaction with people, does not mean I'm going to stick to them no matter what, as they will grow and change through talking / interaction.
Not everyone.
Im more curious about the first question about fable.
*small chance not everyone but it be a very very rare case. When you look at someone their personality, what they are wearing, how they act, how they speak. For your mind to have 0 thoughts on people you would have to be a bit broken. First impression aren't everything but they mean a lot, and also why they are weighed heavily on business level interactions, someone could see you and already judge they might not like you.
"On the other hand it is a little curious to get rid of the team that is uniquely expert in making Fable, and then try and make Fable. Fable is a weird game, and a tough one to deconstruct for a new team. That said, the team in question is very talented, and I'm sure they'll do a fantastic job."
From the article.
Microsoft does this often. It has gone well precisely once, and that was debatable.
My hot take here is therefore 'RIP Fable'.
Im not even trying to talk about fable i was just suing it as an example lmao. Im guessing the game was close to your heart when you were younger?
You guess a lot.
If you haven't realized by now, I study games. I study them very hard. I ask that you try to consider that when talking to me, if possible. It may help you to not make unnecessary assumptions about my feelings or reasonings.
Assuming you care, that is.
Have you played fable, what ones did you play. Did you enjoy the gameplay, did your enjoy the story. Were you younger when you played the game, or did you only play it later?
Everyone makes assumptions in appearance, in emotion, in words. That should not be a surprise, we have our thoughts with out outlook. Through disccusion things become more clear. So i will still have my assumptions when interaction with people, does not mean I'm going to stick to them no matter what, as they will grow and change through talking / interaction.
Not everyone.
Im more curious about the first question about fable.
*small chance not everyone but it be a very very rare case. When you look at someone their personality, what they are wearing, how they act, how they speak. For your mind to have 0 thoughts on people you would have to be a bit broken. First impression aren't everything but they mean a lot, and also why they are weighed heavily on business level interactions, someone could see you and already judge they might not like you.
You've already managed to indicate to me that even beginning to have this conversation will just lead to you jumping to conclusions at nearly everything I say and me needing to clarify it over and over which isn't my vibe for today.
Therefore this post is backhanded 'courtesy', to let you know that I'm not going to continue, nor answer your question (the latter being entirely because I'm spiteful and I get easily irritated by your way of interacting).
"On the other hand it is a little curious to get rid of the team that is uniquely expert in making Fable, and then try and make Fable. Fable is a weird game, and a tough one to deconstruct for a new team. That said, the team in question is very talented, and I'm sure they'll do a fantastic job."
From the article.
Microsoft does this often. It has gone well precisely once, and that was debatable.
My hot take here is therefore 'RIP Fable'.
Im not even trying to talk about fable i was just suing it as an example lmao. Im guessing the game was close to your heart when you were younger?
You guess a lot.
If you haven't realized by now, I study games. I study them very hard. I ask that you try to consider that when talking to me, if possible. It may help you to not make unnecessary assumptions about my feelings or reasonings.
Assuming you care, that is.
Have you played fable, what ones did you play. Did you enjoy the gameplay, did your enjoy the story. Were you younger when you played the game, or did you only play it later?
Everyone makes assumptions in appearance, in emotion, in words. That should not be a surprise, we have our thoughts with out outlook. Through disccusion things become more clear. So i will still have my assumptions when interaction with people, does not mean I'm going to stick to them no matter what, as they will grow and change through talking / interaction.
Not everyone.
Im more curious about the first question about fable.
*small chance not everyone but it be a very very rare case. When you look at someone their personality, what they are wearing, how they act, how they speak. For your mind to have 0 thoughts on people you would have to be a bit broken. First impression aren't everything but they mean a lot, and also why they are weighed heavily on business level interactions, someone could see you and already judge they might not like you.
You've already managed to indicate to me that even beginning to have this conversation will just lead to you jumping to conclusions at nearly everything I say and me needing to clarify it over and over which isn't my vibe for today.
Therefore this post is backhanded 'courtesy', to let you know that I'm not going to continue, nor answer your question (the latter being entirely because I'm spiteful and I get easily irritated by your way of interacting).
Mu.
I know you are pretty emotionally charged in a negative aspect, against my own questions that are more trying to understand certain things about your point of view since I feel like I'm looking at a shell. The only way to peak inside is to ask questions and understand you better in some discussions.
Though I guess it is hard to get past the negative aspect and sit down and talk about things. I have a lot of thoughts going constantly about this disccusion, and about you. Understanding my thoughts if they are right or wrong and growing them with better understanding of the real you is interesting to me.
My questions were pretty neutral though as it was about whole heartedly understanding your view on the game and your reasoning for things. I don't see any reason to not answer.
The issue with what want is the rewards. Not only is there no risk in the rewards but more importantly, by being easier to acquire (because of the decreased risk), It devalues all the rewards in the world, especially those with less power and/or value.
Pvp has no rewards on it's own. All the rewards from it come from what you choose to fight over so by devaluing the rewards from the world, you are devaluing the PVP.
To be honest, I disagree with your entire premise here.
The value of any reward in the game is directly tied to the time spent to get it including any PvP, not just on the PvP.
I'm not sure what you mean. You seem to be implying that the more time it takes to get something, the more value it has which is false. Yes, more valuable things usually take longer to acquire but the more time it takes to acquire something doesn't increase it's value. If i auto-attack a boss to death, it's not going to drop more valuable loot because i took longer to kill it.
While this is true, it is also true that if I fight you for a boss, it isnt going to drop better gear. It may be that if I fight you for it, you dont get any gear and I do, but if you just auto attack a boss you wont get any either.
Again, time is the only thing players put in to an MMO, this is the baseline. You need to put time in to getting geared up, time in to learning your class, your role in a raid, and the encounter itself, then you can spend time working to kill the encounter.
If I am working on an open world encounter and you are trying to stop me, you are spending your time in order to prevent me getting the rewards I was after by spending my time on that boss.
If I go out harvesting and you attack me, you are risking your time via PvP and potential corruption in order to take the results of the time I spent harvesting.
Spending time on something isnt always a guarantee, but time is the only thing we have to spend.
If I take something from you in PvP, you have three options to get it back. Spend time fighting me for it, spend time earning gold to buy it, or spend time to get a new one.
It literally all comes down to spending time.
That doesnt mean we can increase our rewards for time spent by working slowly, all that amounts to is an inefficient use of time.
Yes but you kind of jumped past my point in my original reply. As you pointed out, PvP can add time to an encounter which is something you don't have to worry about in an instance. This means the rewards from instances are easier to get when compared to open-world items so people are going to go after the instanced rewards and ignore any rewards in the world that are as good or less powerful than them. Not good if there are a few pieces of instanced content that invalidate almost everything in the world.
Right, so in the past I have gone incredibly in depth on how I would add instanced raid content to Ashes. I've done this several times, going back several times.
I assumed you'd read that, obviously not.
Two key points to make.
First, best in slot items in Ashes (or the components to make them) need to come from open world encounters, ideally encounters in battlegrounds so players hav e no need to worry about corruption.
Thus, if a guild wants best in slot items, they need to learn how to compete to get them. You cant learn how to do this in an instance, so if all you do is instanced content, you are opting out of the best gear in the game.
Second, while P vP does not happen within the I stance, I have always said it needs to be a part of the equation. When you consider players logging on for the nights raidng up until the guild has an equitable item, there are plenty of other opportunities to add PvP that arent just the actual fight.
My preferred method for this is for the encounter to drop components that then need to be transported via the caravan system. This then puts the guild at risk of losing those components ( and thus the fruits of the thousands of combined hours put in) to anyone organized enough to take it.
Just to add to that, my suggestion also contains the notion that once a raid mob like this is killed (an ev en I expect to happen 3 or 4 times a week at the absolute most), there is a server wide announcement of the fact.
So basically, force the guild to put their loot in a slow moving, vulnerable caravan, and then tell the whole server that it's happening.
"On the other hand it is a little curious to get rid of the team that is uniquely expert in making Fable, and then try and make Fable. Fable is a weird game, and a tough one to deconstruct for a new team. That said, the team in question is very talented, and I'm sure they'll do a fantastic job."
From the article.
Microsoft does this often. It has gone well precisely once, and that was debatable.
My hot take here is therefore 'RIP Fable'.
Im not even trying to talk about fable i was just suing it as an example lmao. Im guessing the game was close to your heart when you were younger?
You guess a lot.
If you haven't realized by now, I study games. I study them very hard. I ask that you try to consider that when talking to me, if possible. It may help you to not make unnecessary assumptions about my feelings or reasonings.
Assuming you care, that is.
Have you played fable, what ones did you play. Did you enjoy the gameplay, did your enjoy the story. Were you younger when you played the game, or did you only play it later?
Everyone makes assumptions in appearance, in emotion, in words. That should not be a surprise, we have our thoughts with out outlook. Through disccusion things become more clear. So i will still have my assumptions when interaction with people, does not mean I'm going to stick to them no matter what, as they will grow and change through talking / interaction.
Not everyone.
Im more curious about the first question about fable.
*small chance not everyone but it be a very very rare case. When you look at someone their personality, what they are wearing, how they act, how they speak. For your mind to have 0 thoughts on people you would have to be a bit broken. First impression aren't everything but they mean a lot, and also why they are weighed heavily on business level interactions, someone could see you and already judge they might not like you.
You've already managed to indicate to me that even beginning to have this conversation will just lead to you jumping to conclusions at nearly everything I say
"On the other hand it is a little curious to get rid of the team that is uniquely expert in making Fable, and then try and make Fable. Fable is a weird game, and a tough one to deconstruct for a new team. That said, the team in question is very talented, and I'm sure they'll do a fantastic job."
From the article.
Microsoft does this often. It has gone well precisely once, and that was debatable.
My hot take here is therefore 'RIP Fable'.
Im not even trying to talk about fable i was just suing it as an example lmao. Im guessing the game was close to your heart when you were younger?
You guess a lot.
If you haven't realized by now, I study games. I study them very hard. I ask that you try to consider that when talking to me, if possible. It may help you to not make unnecessary assumptions about my feelings or reasonings.
Assuming you care, that is.
Have you played fable, what ones did you play. Did you enjoy the gameplay, did your enjoy the story. Were you younger when you played the game, or did you only play it later?
Everyone makes assumptions in appearance, in emotion, in words. That should not be a surprise, we have our thoughts with out outlook. Through disccusion things become more clear. So i will still have my assumptions when interaction with people, does not mean I'm going to stick to them no matter what, as they will grow and change through talking / interaction.
Not everyone.
Im more curious about the first question about fable.
*small chance not everyone but it be a very very rare case. When you look at someone their personality, what they are wearing, how they act, how they speak. For your mind to have 0 thoughts on people you would have to be a bit broken. First impression aren't everything but they mean a lot, and also why they are weighed heavily on business level interactions, someone could see you and already judge they might not like you.
You've already managed to indicate to me that even beginning to have this conversation will just lead to you jumping to conclusions at nearly everything I say
Surely not Mag!
He would never do that...
This comment is ironic since you take your assumptions as fact
The issue with what want is the rewards. Not only is there no risk in the rewards but more importantly, by being easier to acquire (because of the decreased risk), It devalues all the rewards in the world, especially those with less power and/or value.
Pvp has no rewards on it's own. All the rewards from it come from what you choose to fight over so by devaluing the rewards from the world, you are devaluing the PVP.
To be honest, I disagree with your entire premise here.
The value of any reward in the game is directly tied to the time spent to get it including any PvP, not just on the PvP.
I'm not sure what you mean. You seem to be implying that the more time it takes to get something, the more value it has which is false. Yes, more valuable things usually take longer to acquire but the more time it takes to acquire something doesn't increase it's value. If i auto-attack a boss to death, it's not going to drop more valuable loot because i took longer to kill it.
While this is true, it is also true that if I fight you for a boss, it isnt going to drop better gear. It may be that if I fight you for it, you dont get any gear and I do, but if you just auto attack a boss you wont get any either.
Again, time is the only thing players put in to an MMO, this is the baseline. You need to put time in to getting geared up, time in to learning your class, your role in a raid, and the encounter itself, then you can spend time working to kill the encounter.
If I am working on an open world encounter and you are trying to stop me, you are spending your time in order to prevent me getting the rewards I was after by spending my time on that boss.
If I go out harvesting and you attack me, you are risking your time via PvP and potential corruption in order to take the results of the time I spent harvesting.
Spending time on something isnt always a guarantee, but time is the only thing we have to spend.
If I take something from you in PvP, you have three options to get it back. Spend time fighting me for it, spend time earning gold to buy it, or spend time to get a new one.
It literally all comes down to spending time.
That doesnt mean we can increase our rewards for time spent by working slowly, all that amounts to is an inefficient use of time.
Yes but you kind of jumped past my point in my original reply. As you pointed out, PvP can add time to an encounter which is something you don't have to worry about in an instance. This means the rewards from instances are easier to get when compared to open-world items so people are going to go after the instanced rewards and ignore any rewards in the world that are as good or less powerful than them. Not good if there are a few pieces of instanced content that invalidate almost everything in the world.
Right, so in the past I have gone incredibly in depth on how I would add instanced raid content to Ashes. I've done this several times, going back several times.
I assumed you'd read that, obviously not.
Two key points to make.
First, best in slot items in Ashes (or the components to make them) need to come from open world encounters, ideally encounters in battlegrounds so players hav e no need to worry about corruption.
Thus, if a guild wants best in slot items, they need to learn how to compete to get them. You cant learn how to do this in an instance, so if all you do is instanced content, you are opting out of the best gear in the game.
Second, while P vP does not happen within the I stance, I have always said it needs to be a part of the equation. When you consider players logging on for the nights raidng up until the guild has an equitable item, there are plenty of other opportunities to add PvP that arent just the actual fight.
My preferred method for this is for the encounter to drop components that then need to be transported via the caravan system. This then puts the guild at risk of losing those components ( and thus the fruits of the thousands of combined hours put in) to anyone organized enough to take it.
Just to add to that, my suggestion also contains the notion that once a raid mob like this is killed (an ev en I expect to happen 3 or 4 times a week at the absolute most), there is a server wide announcement of the fact.
So basically, force the guild to put their loot in a slow moving, vulnerable caravan, and then tell the whole server that it's happening.
Yeah, low risk.
Yes, we have had similar conversations and i disagreed with you on this in the past.
Have nothing against the your idea. If there was a situation where the content wasn't as guaranteed and you had to do something like pay resources to enter, I think that would be a way to balance it against other open-world content.
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DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Working on one type of mmo does not dictate those people are not keen to work on a mmorpg that targets a different type of audience. How do you know they had no ambition to do to in the first place but corpo's didn't think that type of project would generate money and now it is their chance to do so. Or hearing Steven's vision were on board with it to begin with.
We are playing with a lot of assumptions they want to make the same game....That is more in lines with pantheon on being the same type of game.
A lot of assumptions??? Assumption is too strong of a word.
Also, you are rephrasing most of what I said.
1: There were several lead EQ\EQ2 devs on the IS dev team.
2: The Node System seems to me to be a simplified version of EQNext Storybricks.
3: At the time, Steven said that Ashes would release before 2020.
I want to support the EQ/EQ devs I befriended while following EQNext.
And I Want to support devs who are working on systems I consider to be similar to Storybricks.
So, I chose to back the Ashes Kickstarter. And I still support Ashes of Creation for the first two reasons.
I was always skeptical about whether or not I would play.
There seemed to be a farily high probability that Ashes would be too PvP-centric for me, so...
The first questions I asked Steven when he first appeared on the Ashen Forge were designed to get him to compare his goals for PvP in Ashes compared to the PvP in games I consider to be too PvP-centric for me to play.
He answered the questions in 2018 in a manner that led me to believe my playstyle was part of the target audience.
In 2021, after those EQ/EQ2 devs left IS and Steven took over as Lead Game Designer, he made significant changes to the game design that now cause me to believe my playstyle is not part of the target audience.
I have no clue what you mean by, "They had no ambition to do so in the first place but corpos didn't think that type of project would generate money..." is intended to mean. What is "it"?
We are long past saying if he is or isn't the work is showing, what matters is the success and overcoming the experience one lacks with the issue that can come up.
What matters most is whether Steven can continue to fund the development and inspire the game devs he hired to release the MMORPG of his dreams.
We agree.
To use another example on this gate keeping mentality (most likely stuff you don't watch) we have youtube boxers that are fighting professional fighters. They have been doing it for around 5 years and some people say they aren't fighters while doing the spot and taking it seriously and winning such fights.
Except it's been 5+ years and... Steven hasn't won any fights yet.
So, when he is talking about his thoughts on how to win a professional fight...
Especially when he's talking about how quickly he will be able to win a fight...
"After I go on the updated Keto diet, I will quickly be prepared for my next fight."
In this analogy, I have successfully won several fights and it's easy for me to know that that updated Keto diet is unlikely to get him into fighting shape as easily and as quickly as he thinks.
I have no clue what you mean by, "They had no ambition to do so in the first place but corpos didn't think that type of project would generate money..." is intended to mean. What is "it"?
Same way blizzard changed directions as a company to chase profit at the loss of creative freedom. That kind of concept.
I'm not really going back to that conversation since you have no clue what you're talking about.
I do know what I'm talking about, that is why you skipped the entire point.
Except it's been 5+ years and... Steven hasn't won any fights yet.
He hasn't released a finished product, but things have been continuing and gaining / holding interest in the project. It doesn't take away from the growth and experience that will make him more effective at what he does.
You are giving vibes of gate keeping again, if you spend a good chunk in his role as developer he is one, you can simply say he isn't as experienced as most and the project will have issues because of it. Think you are losing track of the years gone into the product and chalking it up as meaningless experience.
Even if the product didn't get released it is still experience. That would be like telling devs o your product was cancelled you have no experience so you aren't a developer. You can link the same logic to an unreleased game based on the years it takes to make these kinds of things.
So again he is a developer, did he used his money to get into a higher position than most people, ya sure that is just life though. But simply being in a position doesn't guarantee an amazing game, either does throwing tons of money but the more money you have and time you spend, the better chance you have to make the project succeed.
To add because i think a long disccusion on this is almost pointless.
@Dygz Do you think he works and does his job, his job being a creative director over the game AoC over the past serval years. If he works and you view him working that means is is a game developer.
Normally that answer to that would be yes so he would be a game developer else if no it be viewed he doesn't do anything.
The only other answer i can see you trying to go is that he is a creative director so it doesn't count as a game developer since he can be a creative director for any other medium the same way. But that angle wouldn't be true to me.
What is your reasoning he isn't a developer with the active work he is doing so i can better understand what angle you are trying to come from.
Do you think he works and does his job, his job being a creative director over the game AoC over the past serval years. If he works and you view him working that means is is a game developer.
Steven is a gamer who has the funds and the managerial skills to hire competent, experienced game devs to create the MMORPG of his dreams. And I have a reasonable amount of faith in his fundraising skills and managerial skills to think it's more likely than unlikely that he will be able to eventually release the game and keep it running for several years. And gamers with his playstyle will love it.
You can label him whatever you want.
But, he is still very inexperienced as a game dev - even after 5+ years as Creative Director of IS.
Which is why it's imperative that he hire an experienced Lead Game Designer. Which he did.
Normally that answer to that would be yes so he would be a game developer else if no it be viewed he doesn't do anything.
What you think is normal is irrelevant.
What I mean when I say Steven is not a game dev and what you think I mean when I say Steven is not a game dev are not the same thing.
And what you think I mean is irrelevant.
The only other answer i can see you trying to go is that he is a creative director so it doesn't count as a game developer since he can be a creative director for any other medium the same way. But that angle wouldn't be true to me.
I'm not surprised by your limited thinking.
And I don't really care what would be true to YOU.
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DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
The issue with what want is the rewards. Not only is there no risk in the rewards but more importantly, by being easier to acquire (because of the decreased risk), It devalues all the rewards in the world, especially those with less power and/or value.
Pvp has no rewards on it's own. All the rewards from it come from what you choose to fight over so by devaluing the rewards from the world, you are devaluing the PVP.
To be honest, I disagree with your entire premise here.
The value of any reward in the game is directly tied to the time spent to get it including any PvP, not just on the PvP.
I'm not sure what you mean. You seem to be implying that the more time it takes to get something, the more value it has which is false. Yes, more valuable things usually take longer to acquire but the more time it takes to acquire something doesn't increase it's value. If i auto-attack a boss to death, it's not going to drop more valuable loot because i took longer to kill it.
While this is true, it is also true that if I fight you for a boss, it isnt going to drop better gear. It may be that if I fight you for it, you dont get any gear and I do, but if you just auto attack a boss you wont get any either.
Again, time is the only thing players put in to an MMO, this is the baseline. You need to put time in to getting geared up, time in to learning your class, your role in a raid, and the encounter itself, then you can spend time working to kill the encounter.
If I am working on an open world encounter and you are trying to stop me, you are spending your time in order to prevent me getting the rewards I was after by spending my time on that boss.
If I go out harvesting and you attack me, you are risking your time via PvP and potential corruption in order to take the results of the time I spent harvesting.
Spending time on something isnt always a guarantee, but time is the only thing we have to spend.
If I take something from you in PvP, you have three options to get it back. Spend time fighting me for it, spend time earning gold to buy it, or spend time to get a new one.
It literally all comes down to spending time.
That doesnt mean we can increase our rewards for time spent by working slowly, all that amounts to is an inefficient use of time.
Yes but you kind of jumped past my point in my original reply. As you pointed out, PvP can add time to an encounter which is something you don't have to worry about in an instance. This means the rewards from instances are easier to get when compared to open-world items so people are going to go after the instanced rewards and ignore any rewards in the world that are as good or less powerful than them. Not good if there are a few pieces of instanced content that invalidate almost everything in the world.
Right, so in the past I have gone incredibly in depth on how I would add instanced raid content to Ashes. I've done this several times, going back several times.
I assumed you'd read that, obviously not.
Two key points to make.
First, best in slot items in Ashes (or the components to make them) need to come from open world encounters, ideally encounters in battlegrounds so players hav e no need to worry about corruption.
Thus, if a guild wants best in slot items, they need to learn how to compete to get them. You cant learn how to do this in an instance, so if all you do is instanced content, you are opting out of the best gear in the game.
Second, while P vP does not happen within the I stance, I have always said it needs to be a part of the equation. When you consider players logging on for the nights raidng up until the guild has an equitable item, there are plenty of other opportunities to add PvP that arent just the actual fight.
My preferred method for this is for the encounter to drop components that then need to be transported via the caravan system. This then puts the guild at risk of losing those components ( and thus the fruits of the thousands of combined hours put in) to anyone organized enough to take it.
Just to add to that, my suggestion also contains the notion that once a raid mob like this is killed (an ev en I expect to happen 3 or 4 times a week at the absolute most), there is a server wide announcement of the fact.
So basically, force the guild to put their loot in a slow moving, vulnerable caravan, and then tell the whole server that it's happening.
Yeah, low risk.
Yes, we have had similar conversations and i disagreed with you on this in the past.
Have nothing against the your idea. If there was a situation where the content wasn't as guaranteed and you had to do something like pay resources to enter, I think that would be a way to balance it against other open-world content.
Having content guaranteed is literally the point.
If I cant tell my guild we have content in Ashes, we will play a game in which we do.
The resource payment concept you have there is already taken by the need to repair gear. Keep in mind, top end content should require 500+ attempts- that means repairing 8,000+ deaths worth of gear damage before the first kill.
Gear repair in Ashes costs resources, thus a resource cost is already being paid.
Do you think he works and does his job, his job being a creative director over the game AoC over the past serval years. If he works and you view him working that means is is a game developer.
Steven is a gamer who has the funds and the managerial skills to hire competent game devs to create the MMORPG of his dreams. And I have a reasonable amount of faith in his fundraising skills and managerial skills to think it's more likely than unlikely that he will be able to eventually release the game and keep it running for several years.
You can label him whatever you want.
But, he is still very inexperienced as a game dev - even after 5+ years as Creative Director of IS.
Which is why it's imperative that he hire an experienced Lead Game Designer. Which he did.
Normally that answer to that would be yes so he would be a game developer else if no it be viewed he doesn't do anything.
What you think is normal is irrelevant.
What I mean when I say Steven is not a game dev and what you think I mean when I say Steven is not a game dev are not the same thing.
And what you think I mean is irrelevant.
The only other answer i can see you trying to go is that he is a creative director so it doesn't count as a game developer since he can be a creative director for any other medium the same way. But that angle wouldn't be true to me.
I'm not surprised by your limited thinking.
And I don't really care what would be true to YOU.
Your post seems pretty passive aggressive rather than have a decent conversation you went instant to the insulting route. "I'm not surprised by your limited thinking."
I'm thinking to think how to respond at the moment, I'm not going to go the insulting or equal giving back route though.
I will say you went from saying he isn't a game developer to saying he has limited experience between 5-6 years. As you would agree he is a game developer by that statement but the argument would be about he lacks experience which no one is going to say anything about.
If you mean something you should express it and show your professionalism over being passive aggressive. If you want people to understand your take you need to be able to communicate that or that gets us no where.
This thread is steering away from its original purpose. Please keep conversations constructive, and be well unto one another.
It's generally not awesome to commandeer a thread for personal arguments that are generally irrelevant or not conducive to the overall conversation. Those can be had in DMs. I'd prefer not to close this thread or issue warnings because there are meaningful conversations to be had
This thread is steering away from its original purpose. Please keep conversations constructive, and be well unto one another.
It's generally not awesome to commandeer a thread for personal arguments that are generally irrelevant or not conducive to the overall conversation. Those can be had in DMs. I'd prefer not to close this thread or issue warnings because there are meaningful conversations to be had
This thread is steering away from its original purpose. Please keep conversations constructive, and be well unto one another.
It's generally not awesome to commandeer a thread for personal arguments that are generally irrelevant or not conducive to the overall conversation. Those can be had in DMs. I'd prefer not to close this thread or issue warnings because there are meaningful conversations to be had
Thanks, all
This is your strongest reply to a topic yet. I think as we get deeper in development there needs to be more order in topics. Also the official Dev Feedback threads dont need people quoting one another, rather just straight, direct answers to the Dev positions.
Comments
If memory serves, you were(maybe still are?) a game developer (QA?). You should know that where the developers came from means nothing. Steven was not from daybreak. He is the product owner, the one that decides what they are developing.
When it comes to game comparisons, think of it from his perspective though, he plays games with pvp and notices the differences. You have played none of the games you asked him to compare his game to so you don't understand the differences. Since he knows the differences, he is hesitant to say it will be like either of those games because of how his game will be different.
Yes, it's not a copy of L2 but it's also not a copy of Eve or archeage. That said, when talking about the PVP system, the system you seem to be most worried about, it's closest to what they have in L2 so if you really need to compare, it's probably where you should look.
When Alpha 2 ends, it could be harsh.
The game could be closer to PvE than PvP.
Actually I find it quite unlikely Steven to start with a harsh corruption and to make it more lenient toward the end of Alpha, to encourage PvP everywhere.
1: Steven is not a game dev.
2: Steven hired a bunch of leads from EQ/EQ2.
So, while one person hired might not make a difference. I expect a bunch of devs as leads on a game in the same game genre to be interested in retaining the playerbase that worked on their previous game.
3: Ashes Nodes system seems like a simplified version of EQNext.
4: I don’t know anything about L2, so I cannot think of Ashes from the perspective of L2 gamers.
5: Steven answered my question well enough in 2018. At that time, Ashes game design did not have any permanent zones that auto-flag to (Corruption-free) FFA PVP.
The moment Steven announced, a year ago, that they made a significant change to the game design - adding the Open Seas as a permanent zone that auto-flags to (Corruption-free) FFA PVP, I placed Ashes in the same category as EvE Online and ArcheAge.
That change occurred after the EQ/EQ2 leads left IS and a year after Steven began acting as Lead Game Designer.
Which is OK.
But when people ask why were you thinking you might play after launch right up until the announcement of the Open Seas - that’s the answer.
6: Also, after the EQ/EQ2 Leas devs left IS and Steven took over as Lead Game Designer is when Steven began to, more and more, stress the adrenaline rush of Risk v Reward being tied to every aspect of the game, rather than discussing Meaningful Conflict.
Meaningful Conflict is a hype for me.
Obsession with Risk v Reward is anti-hype for me.
7: If you look at the Wiki, you will see now that it says EvE Online and ArcheAge and L2 are inspirations for Ashes, so I’m not sure why it would be surprising for me to ask Steven to compare the levels of PvP he hopes Ashes will have with the levels of PvP in those games.
8: If Ashes did not have so many Lead devs from EQ/EQ2 and if Steven had always been the Lead Game Designer and if the Node system did not seem to be a simplified version of EQNext’s StoryBricks, I would have had 0 interest in backing the Ashes Kickstarter.
(I also notice that we’ve had no updates on Nodes since the EQ/EQ2 left IS and that our new info on Nodes will be coming a few months after another EQ/EQ2 dev becomes Lead Game Designer.
Which could be coincidence, but again makes it seem to me that the Nodes system is a simplified version of StoryBricks.)
Working on one type of mmo does not dictate those people are not keen to work on a mmorpg that targets a different type of audience. How do you know they had no ambition to do to in the first place but corpo's didn't think that type of project would generate money and now it is their chance to do so. Or hearing Steven's vision were on board with it to begin with.
We are playing with a lot of assumptions they want to make the same game....That is more in lines with pantheon on being the same type of game.
Another thing... we are going back to this convo again. Based on the years Steven has been working he is a game developer now...trying to argue he isn't is silly when that is the job he is doing and his creative vision. If you want to argue he bought himself in, or he lacks 15 years experience before you can judge him as a experienced game developer you are free to do that. If you look at lead positions you can see some suggest having 8 years experience in the field give or take. AoC has been in development for about 7 years as far as we know. To say he isn't a developer you are saying he hasn't spent time growing and learning through the years of the project and as well not taking an active role int he development based on being a creative director. @Dygz.
We are long fast saying if he is or isn't the work is showing, what matters is the success and overcoming the experience one lacks with the issue that can come up.
To use another example on this gate keeping mentality (most likely stuff you don't watch) we have youtube boxers that are fighting professional fighters. They have been doing it for around 5 years and some people say they aren't fighters while doing the spot and taking it seriously and winning such fights. Simply because someone started in a certain position/ profession does not mean they aren't what they are doing if they are taking it seriously and producing content. At a certain point you do have to respect the work someone is putting in, as a professional that is something you should definitely understand, and also see the passion going into it.
Truly we are in the darkest timeline.
?
From the article.
Microsoft does this often. It has gone well precisely once, and that was debatable.
My hot take here is therefore 'RIP Fable'.
Im not even trying to talk about fable i was just suing it as an example lmao. Im guessing the game was close to your heart when you were younger?
You guess a lot.
If you haven't realized by now, I study games. I study them very hard. I ask that you try to consider that when talking to me, if possible. It may help you to not make unnecessary assumptions about my feelings or reasonings.
Assuming you care, that is.
Have you played fable, what ones did you play. Did you enjoy the gameplay, did your enjoy the story. Were you younger when you played the game, or did you only play it later?
Everyone makes assumptions in appearance, in emotion, in words. That should not be a surprise, we have our thoughts with out outlook. Through disccusion things become more clear. So i will still have my assumptions when interaction with people, does not mean I'm going to stick to them no matter what, as they will grow and change through talking / interaction.
Not everyone.
Im more curious about the first question about fable.
*small chance not everyone but it be a very very rare case. When you look at someone their personality, what they are wearing, how they act, how they speak. For your mind to have 0 thoughts on people you would have to be a bit broken. First impression aren't everything but they mean a lot, and also why they are weighed heavily on business level interactions, someone could see you and already judge they might not like you.
You've already managed to indicate to me that even beginning to have this conversation will just lead to you jumping to conclusions at nearly everything I say and me needing to clarify it over and over which isn't my vibe for today.
Therefore this post is backhanded 'courtesy', to let you know that I'm not going to continue, nor answer your question (the latter being entirely because I'm spiteful and I get easily irritated by your way of interacting).
Mu.
I know you are pretty emotionally charged in a negative aspect, against my own questions that are more trying to understand certain things about your point of view since I feel like I'm looking at a shell. The only way to peak inside is to ask questions and understand you better in some discussions.
Though I guess it is hard to get past the negative aspect and sit down and talk about things. I have a lot of thoughts going constantly about this disccusion, and about you. Understanding my thoughts if they are right or wrong and growing them with better understanding of the real you is interesting to me.
My questions were pretty neutral though as it was about whole heartedly understanding your view on the game and your reasoning for things. I don't see any reason to not answer.
Right, so in the past I have gone incredibly in depth on how I would add instanced raid content to Ashes. I've done this several times, going back several times.
I assumed you'd read that, obviously not.
Two key points to make.
First, best in slot items in Ashes (or the components to make them) need to come from open world encounters, ideally encounters in battlegrounds so players hav e no need to worry about corruption.
Thus, if a guild wants best in slot items, they need to learn how to compete to get them. You cant learn how to do this in an instance, so if all you do is instanced content, you are opting out of the best gear in the game.
Second, while P vP does not happen within the I stance, I have always said it needs to be a part of the equation. When you consider players logging on for the nights raidng up until the guild has an equitable item, there are plenty of other opportunities to add PvP that arent just the actual fight.
My preferred method for this is for the encounter to drop components that then need to be transported via the caravan system. This then puts the guild at risk of losing those components ( and thus the fruits of the thousands of combined hours put in) to anyone organized enough to take it.
Just to add to that, my suggestion also contains the notion that once a raid mob like this is killed (an ev en I expect to happen 3 or 4 times a week at the absolute most), there is a server wide announcement of the fact.
So basically, force the guild to put their loot in a slow moving, vulnerable caravan, and then tell the whole server that it's happening.
Yeah, low risk.
He would never do that...
This comment is ironic since you take your assumptions as fact
Yes, we have had similar conversations and i disagreed with you on this in the past.
Have nothing against the your idea. If there was a situation where the content wasn't as guaranteed and you had to do something like pay resources to enter, I think that would be a way to balance it against other open-world content.
Also, you are rephrasing most of what I said.
1: There were several lead EQ\EQ2 devs on the IS dev team.
2: The Node System seems to me to be a simplified version of EQNext Storybricks.
3: At the time, Steven said that Ashes would release before 2020.
I want to support the EQ/EQ devs I befriended while following EQNext.
And I Want to support devs who are working on systems I consider to be similar to Storybricks.
So, I chose to back the Ashes Kickstarter. And I still support Ashes of Creation for the first two reasons.
I was always skeptical about whether or not I would play.
There seemed to be a farily high probability that Ashes would be too PvP-centric for me, so...
The first questions I asked Steven when he first appeared on the Ashen Forge were designed to get him to compare his goals for PvP in Ashes compared to the PvP in games I consider to be too PvP-centric for me to play.
He answered the questions in 2018 in a manner that led me to believe my playstyle was part of the target audience.
In 2021, after those EQ/EQ2 devs left IS and Steven took over as Lead Game Designer, he made significant changes to the game design that now cause me to believe my playstyle is not part of the target audience.
I have no clue what you mean by, "They had no ambition to do so in the first place but corpos didn't think that type of project would generate money..." is intended to mean. What is "it"?
I'm not really going back to that conversation with you since you have no clue what you're talking about.
What matters most is whether Steven can continue to fund the development and inspire the game devs he hired to release the MMORPG of his dreams.
We agree.
Except it's been 5+ years and... Steven hasn't won any fights yet.
So, when he is talking about his thoughts on how to win a professional fight...
Especially when he's talking about how quickly he will be able to win a fight...
"After I go on the updated Keto diet, I will quickly be prepared for my next fight."
In this analogy, I have successfully won several fights and it's easy for me to know that that updated Keto diet is unlikely to get him into fighting shape as easily and as quickly as he thinks.
Same way blizzard changed directions as a company to chase profit at the loss of creative freedom. That kind of concept.
I do know what I'm talking about, that is why you skipped the entire point.
He hasn't released a finished product, but things have been continuing and gaining / holding interest in the project. It doesn't take away from the growth and experience that will make him more effective at what he does.
You are giving vibes of gate keeping again, if you spend a good chunk in his role as developer he is one, you can simply say he isn't as experienced as most and the project will have issues because of it. Think you are losing track of the years gone into the product and chalking it up as meaningless experience.
Even if the product didn't get released it is still experience. That would be like telling devs o your product was cancelled you have no experience so you aren't a developer. You can link the same logic to an unreleased game based on the years it takes to make these kinds of things.
So again he is a developer, did he used his money to get into a higher position than most people, ya sure that is just life though. But simply being in a position doesn't guarantee an amazing game, either does throwing tons of money but the more money you have and time you spend, the better chance you have to make the project succeed.
@Dygz Do you think he works and does his job, his job being a creative director over the game AoC over the past serval years. If he works and you view him working that means is is a game developer.
Normally that answer to that would be yes so he would be a game developer else if no it be viewed he doesn't do anything.
The only other answer i can see you trying to go is that he is a creative director so it doesn't count as a game developer since he can be a creative director for any other medium the same way. But that angle wouldn't be true to me.
What is your reasoning he isn't a developer with the active work he is doing so i can better understand what angle you are trying to come from.
You can label him whatever you want.
But, he is still very inexperienced as a game dev - even after 5+ years as Creative Director of IS.
Which is why it's imperative that he hire an experienced Lead Game Designer. Which he did.
What you think is normal is irrelevant.
What I mean when I say Steven is not a game dev and what you think I mean when I say Steven is not a game dev are not the same thing.
And what you think I mean is irrelevant.
I'm not surprised by your limited thinking.
And I don't really care what would be true to YOU.
OK. Sure, you win.
Back to Ignore.
Having content guaranteed is literally the point.
If I cant tell my guild we have content in Ashes, we will play a game in which we do.
The resource payment concept you have there is already taken by the need to repair gear. Keep in mind, top end content should require 500+ attempts- that means repairing 8,000+ deaths worth of gear damage before the first kill.
Gear repair in Ashes costs resources, thus a resource cost is already being paid.
Your post seems pretty passive aggressive rather than have a decent conversation you went instant to the insulting route. "I'm not surprised by your limited thinking."
I'm thinking to think how to respond at the moment, I'm not going to go the insulting or equal giving back route though.
I will say you went from saying he isn't a game developer to saying he has limited experience between 5-6 years. As you would agree he is a game developer by that statement but the argument would be about he lacks experience which no one is going to say anything about.
If you mean something you should express it and show your professionalism over being passive aggressive. If you want people to understand your take you need to be able to communicate that or that gets us no where.
It's generally not awesome to commandeer a thread for personal arguments that are generally irrelevant or not conducive to the overall conversation. Those can be had in DMs. I'd prefer not to close this thread or issue warnings because there are meaningful conversations to be had
Thanks, all
Thanks 😊
This is your strongest reply to a topic yet. I think as we get deeper in development there needs to be more order in topics. Also the official Dev Feedback threads dont need people quoting one another, rather just straight, direct answers to the Dev positions.