Best Of
Re: Risk, Reward, Difficulty & FUN: What Intrepid is Missing
Right, but...
I'm saying that it's not really a matter of whether you're skilled at PvP...
It's really a matter of whether it's the type of activity you want to do or like to do.
Kinda like eating fish eyes - I don't care how good it might taste - I really don't even like the taste. I also don't like raw tomatoes, but on a sub sandwich it's OK if they're covered up enough by a bunch of other stuff.
Among people I know and know of you are an absolute minority.
I'm not discounting what you're saying, I'm just clarifying that I was talking about a different demographic.
"People who don't PvP because PvP is difficult" and/or "People who do PvP, but would not do crafting in a game where being able to make White Joker was the base requirement for crafting."
Azherae
1
Re: Risk, Reward, Difficulty & FUN: What Intrepid is Missing
I mean - even in D&D, I don't like the idea of having to kill a bunch of stuff to Level. I prefer to avoid killing stuff as much as possible. And I hated when we basically had to convert Treasure into XP in order to Level.I don't think we want PvP dumbed down to the level that they tend to dumb down crafting 'so that the PvErs can do everything in the game too'. That hasn't worked out well for any of my preferred games so far...
It's not very heroic to have to steal treasure and kill everything in sight.
I don't even like for NPCs and mobs.
I especially don't want to be killing other players. And I don't want to be stealing stuff from other players, either.
The Stealth and Garrote animations were so over-the-top and visceral in KOA: Reckoning that I loved Pickpocketing and slitting the throats of mobs and NPCs in that game, but... I think I still would not want to do that to players.
No reason to "dumb-down" PvP.
For me, the devs would have to find a way to provide a more meaningful motivation besides killing players for Loot. Sieges are intriguing, but even then I prefer to focus on indirect PvE objectives rather than direct combat.
This isn't quite what I meant.
I'll demonstrate by giving the 'crafting formula' for my Legend of Mana main weapon 'White Joker'. Understanding it is not required:
IshePlatinum Knife
Base stats: POW 37, Elements none
1 - Spiny Carrot
2 - ShadeSilver 1S, 1U - 42 POW
3 - Mercury 2S, 1U Shade 44 POW
4 - UndineSilver 3S, 2U Witch, Shade
5 - Mercury 3S, 3U Undine, Witch, Shade
6 - Mercury 3S, 4U Witch, Undine, Witch
7 - Acid 3S, 5U Witch, Undine, Witch
8 - ShadeGold 4S, 5U Witch, Witch, Undine
9 - Mercury 5S, 5U Shade, Witch, Witch
10- Glow Crystal 6S, 5U Witch, Shade, Witch
11- UndineSilver 6S, 5U Nymph, Witch, Shade
12- Mercury 6S, 6U Undine, ---, Witch
13- Glow Crystal 6S, 6U Witch, Undine, Witch
14- Mercury 6S, 6U Nymph, Witch, Undine
15- ShadeSilver 6S, 6U Witch, Nymph, Witch
16- Sulphur 7S, 6U Shade, Witch, --- (changed from #5 onward)
17- Cornflower 7S, 6U, 1W Shade, Witch, ---
18- Cornflower 7S, 6U, 2W, Shade, Witch, ---
19- WispSilver 7S, 6U, 3W, Sorcerer, Shade, Witch
20- Sulphur 7S, 6U, 4W, Wisp, Sorcerer, Shade
21- FireStone 7S, 6U, 4W, Sorcerer, Wisp, Sorcerer
22- Acid 7S, 6U, 5W, Sorcerer, Wisp, Sorcerer
23- Chaos Crystal 7S, 6U, 5W, Salamander, Sorcerer, Wisp
24- Sulphur 7S6U, 5W1F, Ancient Moon, Salamander, Sorcerer
25- Acid 7S6U, 5W2F, Ancient Moon, Salamander, Sorcerer
26- Acid 7S6U, 5W3F, Ancient Moon, Salamander, Sorcerer
27- Acid 7S6U, 5W4F, Ancient Moon, Salamander, Sorcerer
28- FireStone 7S6U, 5W4F, Sorcerer, Ancient Moon, Salamander
29- Mercury 7S6U, 5W4F, Salamander, Sorcerer, Ancient Moon
30- Glow Crystal 7S6U, 5W5F, Witch, Salamander, Sorcerer
31- Mercury 7S6U, 5W5F, Nymph, Witch, Salamander
32- Undine Gold 7S7U, 5W4F, Witch, Nymph, Witch
33- Wisp Gold 7S7U, 5W3F, Undine, Witch, Nymph
34- Sulphur 7S7U, 6W2F, Wisp, Undine, Witch
35- Glow Crystal 7S7U, 6W1F, Sorcerer, Wisp, Undine
36- Sulphur 7S7U, 6W1F, Nymph, Sorcerer, Wisp
37- Wisp Silver 7S7U, 6W1F, Sorcerer, Nymph, Sorcerer
38- Ender (note that Rocket Papaya don't Dawnbreak so you can add Tower and then one more Glow Crystal
This is one of the methods to get the outcome I want on this dagger.
It only works on this material.
If I make the dagger out of a different material I need a different formula to get a similar outcome. If I wanted a dagger with slightly different elemental damage I need a different material and a different formula.
If I wanted a sword of the same material I have to come up with a new formula from scratch because the skill empowerment for swords has to happen at stage 28 (I think, but maybe I'd come up with a way to do it earlier).
Combat can be like the above in terms of sequences/synergies, etc. Some games, it is. Compare that to normal game crafting:
"Gather 4-8 things and shove them together". If PvP was 'get your build and then hit a button to see if you win', more people would be good at it.
Azherae
1
Re: what is going on with this project
Foundations are the important part to get right.
Vertical slices are great for showing what foundations are intended for.
If you want to build a single dungeon in an MMO you need a fair few things to be working correctly.
If you want to be able to build 40 dungeons in an MMO you need many things to be working correctly. But the quality of each of the 40 can be shown off using the single.
Eventually when the foundation is sturdy enough, the next 60 dungeons are either 'trivial' or 'easy to use as testbeds for entirely new things', and then if the new thing doesn't work out you dial back the scope of the dungeon and accept 'standard' instead of 'groundbreaking' and people still have content.
Same goes for classes, biomes, story.
Last I checked, when I killed mobs I got exp, and even the Nodes got exp. Most of the concerns in the OP, many of us also have, but are largely in the 'what's done is done' stage. The Devs there now are doing good work, so there's nothing to 'hold them accountable' for.
Vertical slices are great for showing what foundations are intended for.
If you want to build a single dungeon in an MMO you need a fair few things to be working correctly.
If you want to be able to build 40 dungeons in an MMO you need many things to be working correctly. But the quality of each of the 40 can be shown off using the single.
Eventually when the foundation is sturdy enough, the next 60 dungeons are either 'trivial' or 'easy to use as testbeds for entirely new things', and then if the new thing doesn't work out you dial back the scope of the dungeon and accept 'standard' instead of 'groundbreaking' and people still have content.
Same goes for classes, biomes, story.
Last I checked, when I killed mobs I got exp, and even the Nodes got exp. Most of the concerns in the OP, many of us also have, but are largely in the 'what's done is done' stage. The Devs there now are doing good work, so there's nothing to 'hold them accountable' for.
Azherae
4
Re: Nodes and guards in a world of magic (huge desire of mine)
Arya_Yeshe wrote: »How do you justify guards that are stoic and robotic in their behavior? Touché.
Not really. But i think i get your Point.
" PERFECT " Guards are unrealistic. And the Guards are pretty much behaving "perfectly right now".
There IS - NO - "perfect" Person.
People can get corrupt.
People can abuse their Power.
The Townsguard is a "Force". Hired Muscle and Readiness to use force.
Such a thing can bring the Temptation of abusing the Power given.
Guards must be checked and supervised if they are working as intended.
Arya_Yeshe wrote: »I thin k guards have to be a bit more human: flawed, relatable, and part of the living world. This will adds depth to the game and-
I get it.
Aszkalon
1
Lawless Zone Alternative
I crashed out after the stream due to my vehement hate of lawless zones, but that is obviously not constructive, so instead, here's a suggestion for an alternative.
I'm still suggesting that majority of the pvp for content should be delivered through guild wars, because majority of people will be in guilds, but this suggestion would allow for others to participate too, cause guilded people would be running around flagged up.
I suggest designing the wars inside out. Instead of their target being just another guild, make the war related to the content. POIs will have quests and NPCs related to them. Make those NPCs know the respawn window of the biggest thing in the POI and/or have a quest related to the POI as a whole. The big target would require a higher wardec cost, while the general POI contest wardec could be cheaper, but with a more limited potential list of targets.
The guild that's present at the POI within the respawn window can declare war on several other guilds right on the spot, by using an item they get from npc/quest. Those items are limited in use by power differences between warring guilds, by POI's value, lvl of content, etc etc. They also have prerequisite costs related to them, either by doing something for the POI's node or by going through a guild-quest.
Using those items creates several "monuments", around the POI, that can be activated by the wardec targets. These monuments enable certain mechanics on the boss or around the POI in the vicinity of the wardeccing guild. These could range from environmental hazards to full boss buffs with adds and stuff.
If a single guild becomes a target of several such wardecs, they get the right to use secret passages through the POI (these could be tunnels, invisible paths on top of walls, secret doors that only they could open, etc).
If the game registers massive acitivity of players, with several warring guilds active in the POI - the entire place becomes a last man standing arena, with all monuments activated and external entrances only being open one-way and single-use, so anyone who dies within the POI can resurrect outside and re-enter the location once (could be several times, but that's up to testing).
Once only one guild remains - the boss' spawn timer could be shortened or the spawn itself started, but with the place on lockdown, this boss would now be stronger (+the monument activation effects).
To me THIS sounds like a PvX encounter, where people on all sides agree to participate, where random people who're still inside the dungeon could still remain there, but would be in great danger because high player activity has "awakened the eeeeevil". And hell, you could even have extra rewards related to monument activation, so that everyone in the POI gets the appropriate lvls of risk/reward balancing.
The guilds could also pre-load on those items, for the POIs of their interest, on their own time and then use them at proper and opportune moments. No randomness, no genocide, just goal-based cost-paid player-driven activities.
And this is just a random idea that I came up with right on the spot. Obviously it's not ideal and it's nowhere near balanced. But it's also obviously way more complex than just "duhhh, pvp zone, duuuhhh", so it'd require a ton of coding, quest/event hooks, environment design/layout, mob AI and pathing, proper anti-zerg mechanics, proper boss design - all with, ideally, ONLY GEAR DECAY AS DEATH PENALTIES. People would have already paid to participate in the war and there'd be a lock out, so there's no damn reason to make players lose even more stuff!!
I bet there's like 10 other equally as in-depth and interesting (and more) ideas out there - all infinitely better than fucking lawless zones.
I'm still suggesting that majority of the pvp for content should be delivered through guild wars, because majority of people will be in guilds, but this suggestion would allow for others to participate too, cause guilded people would be running around flagged up.
I suggest designing the wars inside out. Instead of their target being just another guild, make the war related to the content. POIs will have quests and NPCs related to them. Make those NPCs know the respawn window of the biggest thing in the POI and/or have a quest related to the POI as a whole. The big target would require a higher wardec cost, while the general POI contest wardec could be cheaper, but with a more limited potential list of targets.
The guild that's present at the POI within the respawn window can declare war on several other guilds right on the spot, by using an item they get from npc/quest. Those items are limited in use by power differences between warring guilds, by POI's value, lvl of content, etc etc. They also have prerequisite costs related to them, either by doing something for the POI's node or by going through a guild-quest.
Using those items creates several "monuments", around the POI, that can be activated by the wardec targets. These monuments enable certain mechanics on the boss or around the POI in the vicinity of the wardeccing guild. These could range from environmental hazards to full boss buffs with adds and stuff.
If a single guild becomes a target of several such wardecs, they get the right to use secret passages through the POI (these could be tunnels, invisible paths on top of walls, secret doors that only they could open, etc).
If the game registers massive acitivity of players, with several warring guilds active in the POI - the entire place becomes a last man standing arena, with all monuments activated and external entrances only being open one-way and single-use, so anyone who dies within the POI can resurrect outside and re-enter the location once (could be several times, but that's up to testing).
Once only one guild remains - the boss' spawn timer could be shortened or the spawn itself started, but with the place on lockdown, this boss would now be stronger (+the monument activation effects).
To me THIS sounds like a PvX encounter, where people on all sides agree to participate, where random people who're still inside the dungeon could still remain there, but would be in great danger because high player activity has "awakened the eeeeevil". And hell, you could even have extra rewards related to monument activation, so that everyone in the POI gets the appropriate lvls of risk/reward balancing.
The guilds could also pre-load on those items, for the POIs of their interest, on their own time and then use them at proper and opportune moments. No randomness, no genocide, just goal-based cost-paid player-driven activities.
And this is just a random idea that I came up with right on the spot. Obviously it's not ideal and it's nowhere near balanced. But it's also obviously way more complex than just "duhhh, pvp zone, duuuhhh", so it'd require a ton of coding, quest/event hooks, environment design/layout, mob AI and pathing, proper anti-zerg mechanics, proper boss design - all with, ideally, ONLY GEAR DECAY AS DEATH PENALTIES. People would have already paid to participate in the war and there'd be a lock out, so there's no damn reason to make players lose even more stuff!!
I bet there's like 10 other equally as in-depth and interesting (and more) ideas out there - all infinitely better than fucking lawless zones.
Ludullu
2
Re: Where is the soul
The true character of this game is many systems and years away....
I assume late 2027 at earliest - and i am "NOT" saying that Sir Steven and his Crew are making slow Progress. I am kind of excited that apparently to about the Start of Phase Three,
most of the Western Continent will be ready already - won't it ? But i know that there is still S~OOOOOO much more left to add - and that does not even include Quests in all the Area's. Or Quest-Chains. Or Events. Or corrupted Areas.
Or Weather-Effects. Or the four different "Seasons" with their Weather-Effects. Or the Oceans. Or the Underground. Plus the Archetypes are not yet complete.
Still much, much to do. This is why i keep saying this is still "relatively early Alpha 2".
Aszkalon
1
