Best Of
Re: [Feedback Request] Alpha Two Citadel of the Steel Bloom & Firebrand Preview | August Livestream
It is my hope that this is an example of a low level boss encounter, most mechanics shown were either heal/gear checks after the damage goes out that you cannot avoid, or dont stand in the bad stuff.
I am very pleased with the way players must watch boss animations to see what move is coming next. But I also hope for more complex mechanics to arrive in the future.
Things targeting a random player that requires nearby players to stack together to soak damage.
Things requiring players with different magic effects applies to them to run together to cleanse each other (think of a player on fire, and a freezing player needing to go meet to cleanse, or they take continuous dot damage)
Maybe a immolation effect, setting players on fire until they can jump into water.
The complexity of ideas you can add is infinite. I am just hoping for more interaction in the encounter besides heal/gear checks, and dont stand in bad. I am not saying the things I saw were bad, they are necessary parts of a fight, I just want more mental engagement in encounters.
I am of the opinion that hard bosses should not really be cleared on the first encounter. Players must repeatedly challenge a boss to solve the mechanics. After the mechanics are understood, and shared around forums or internet even, other teams might conceivable be able to clear it on the first try if they study... but even then there is a difference between knowing how a mechanic works and being able to solve it in execution.
I am very pleased with the way players must watch boss animations to see what move is coming next. But I also hope for more complex mechanics to arrive in the future.
Things targeting a random player that requires nearby players to stack together to soak damage.
Things requiring players with different magic effects applies to them to run together to cleanse each other (think of a player on fire, and a freezing player needing to go meet to cleanse, or they take continuous dot damage)
Maybe a immolation effect, setting players on fire until they can jump into water.
The complexity of ideas you can add is infinite. I am just hoping for more interaction in the encounter besides heal/gear checks, and dont stand in bad. I am not saying the things I saw were bad, they are necessary parts of a fight, I just want more mental engagement in encounters.
I am of the opinion that hard bosses should not really be cleared on the first encounter. Players must repeatedly challenge a boss to solve the mechanics. After the mechanics are understood, and shared around forums or internet even, other teams might conceivable be able to clear it on the first try if they study... but even then there is a difference between knowing how a mechanic works and being able to solve it in execution.
Taerrik
1
Re: Resurrection during combat
It takes like 10 seconds. In a PvP encounter thats like 10 min. If you waste 10 seconds rezzing someone you have already lost the fight, so I think it's pretty balance.
Also the rezzed players comes back with like 10% hp and without mana, that means that even rezzed theyre still useless.
So I think it's a pretty dope solution considering when you die you have to walk back a lot!
Also the rezzed players comes back with like 10% hp and without mana, that means that even rezzed theyre still useless.
So I think it's a pretty dope solution considering when you die you have to walk back a lot!
Re: [Feedback Request] Alpha Two Citadel of the Steel Bloom & Firebrand Preview | August Livestream
Thank you for the stream and hard work. I have mixed feelings this time around. Some things I liked. Some I didn't. And some made me concerned.
- The dragon model is not unique, but I still fancied it. I still think wings and some movements need more love and attention. It's a huge creature, and its attacks must have more impact, especially tail swipes and landing moves. Behavior before the engagement needs more love. Eating grass is cool, but standing still all this time is not. Move around a little, glare at neraby players, breathe fire menacingly?
- Dragon abilities. I dont want to talk about numbers and damage because these things will be dealt with during alpha.
Burning spots on the ground look unfinished. Players stading in the zone should get ramping up burning that needs to be cleansed either by cleric, potion, or selfbuff. This burning should have distinctive visuals so that clerics can react in time. Secondly, burning ground under water without the latter boiling and evaporating looks strange to say the least.
Only one wave of adds for a raid boss is unserious. And it occurs only on low HP. I think it is reasonable to add one more wave at, say, 70% so that players would get punished for unsuccessful elimination.
A linear attack from above is not scary at all. Animation is great, but impact is pitiful. It is a move with long preparation. Those who fail to get out of the way should be severely debuffed or instakilled.
Ground circles of fire are okay. Maybe rump up the casting speed and radius the lower the dragon's health drops?
Bite and claw attacks seem very repetitive. Easy job for a tank. Maybe give the dragon some lethal moves? Standing up on two legs and crushing down with x3 damage? Add some delayed bites with prone effect if unblocked?
Fire breath. Like other moves, it needs to be more complex. From the stream, I got to the conclusion that it is undodgeble on long distances. And this is great because long-range characters are rarely punished. Hmmm. Maybe give the dragon an indication that it is preparing a fire breath attack. For example, the scales on its belly or neck start to glow with red/orange. Now players are aware that a big move is coming and can use defensive abilities or shields to mitigate damage. In compensation add a stun or burning debuff to fire breath.
Overall right now this dragon feels like childsplay mechanically wise. And im not saying that a midlevel raid boss should be extra complex with precision positioning, lightspeed reactions, gear fireresist management, timegates, enragement, and so on...just...add some teamwork, add actual punishment for mistakes.
- People already mentioned lightning and dust. I agree
- Loot. This is where I am VERY concerned. First of all, as I said many times, full item drops ruin economy and craft. Why can't bosses and raid bosses drop unique mats and recepies? Right now you are separating crafting from raiding. This is bad. Why can't this big dragon drop lots of scales, several fangs, horns, meat, heart, essence, and claws? Noooo, it drops shields, armor, and weapons out of its belly (or ass). Does it have iron deficiency? Poor thing.
Even if the development team is hellbent on fullitem drop couple of trinkets for a 40 player raid is laughable.
- Some other thoughts.
I assume Steven was in godmode.
Resurection with a less than 10-minute cooldown is unacceptable.
Path to the ritual site and the channeling are extra easy and repetitive. Add some action. Add unique mobs that reduce the channeling progress. Make enemy archers focus the ghost. Mix in some special effects or cast made by demon. Because right now this part looks uninspired and dull. Im sorry.
- The dragon model is not unique, but I still fancied it. I still think wings and some movements need more love and attention. It's a huge creature, and its attacks must have more impact, especially tail swipes and landing moves. Behavior before the engagement needs more love. Eating grass is cool, but standing still all this time is not. Move around a little, glare at neraby players, breathe fire menacingly?
- Dragon abilities. I dont want to talk about numbers and damage because these things will be dealt with during alpha.
Burning spots on the ground look unfinished. Players stading in the zone should get ramping up burning that needs to be cleansed either by cleric, potion, or selfbuff. This burning should have distinctive visuals so that clerics can react in time. Secondly, burning ground under water without the latter boiling and evaporating looks strange to say the least.
Only one wave of adds for a raid boss is unserious. And it occurs only on low HP. I think it is reasonable to add one more wave at, say, 70% so that players would get punished for unsuccessful elimination.
A linear attack from above is not scary at all. Animation is great, but impact is pitiful. It is a move with long preparation. Those who fail to get out of the way should be severely debuffed or instakilled.
Ground circles of fire are okay. Maybe rump up the casting speed and radius the lower the dragon's health drops?
Bite and claw attacks seem very repetitive. Easy job for a tank. Maybe give the dragon some lethal moves? Standing up on two legs and crushing down with x3 damage? Add some delayed bites with prone effect if unblocked?
Fire breath. Like other moves, it needs to be more complex. From the stream, I got to the conclusion that it is undodgeble on long distances. And this is great because long-range characters are rarely punished. Hmmm. Maybe give the dragon an indication that it is preparing a fire breath attack. For example, the scales on its belly or neck start to glow with red/orange. Now players are aware that a big move is coming and can use defensive abilities or shields to mitigate damage. In compensation add a stun or burning debuff to fire breath.
Overall right now this dragon feels like childsplay mechanically wise. And im not saying that a midlevel raid boss should be extra complex with precision positioning, lightspeed reactions, gear fireresist management, timegates, enragement, and so on...just...add some teamwork, add actual punishment for mistakes.
- People already mentioned lightning and dust. I agree
- Loot. This is where I am VERY concerned. First of all, as I said many times, full item drops ruin economy and craft. Why can't bosses and raid bosses drop unique mats and recepies? Right now you are separating crafting from raiding. This is bad. Why can't this big dragon drop lots of scales, several fangs, horns, meat, heart, essence, and claws? Noooo, it drops shields, armor, and weapons out of its belly (or ass). Does it have iron deficiency? Poor thing.
Even if the development team is hellbent on fullitem drop couple of trinkets for a 40 player raid is laughable.
- Some other thoughts.
I assume Steven was in godmode.
Resurection with a less than 10-minute cooldown is unacceptable.
Path to the ritual site and the channeling are extra easy and repetitive. Add some action. Add unique mobs that reduce the channeling progress. Make enemy archers focus the ghost. Mix in some special effects or cast made by demon. Because right now this part looks uninspired and dull. Im sorry.
Re: Feels Like a Cash Grab!
Honestly, it feels like you guys are trying to cash in early on the hype AoC has generated over the years. If you wanted more players to test your game, there were plenty of ways to do that without charging $100+ just to playtest. I get that you're not a big-budget AAA studio, but these Alpha 2 keys feel pretty scummy, especially coming from a company that was started because MMORPGs were full of these exact kinds of scummy moves.
For those who want to defend this $100+ alpha access, go ahead—give me a solid reason. Right now, it feels like, "Hey, let's make some quick cash off of these desperate MMO players. Hahaha!" (cue Steven laughing maniacally).
And to the inevitable "yOu dOnT hAvE to support this, plenty of good games out there" crowd, let me just say: I've watched every single livestream since the Unreal 5 reveal, spent way too much time on the wiki, and haunted the Discord like a ghost. Also, let's be real most games out there suck.
Finally, I think only Phase 3 keys should've been sold, and they should've been cheaper, or at least bundled with something that gives access to the betas too.
This, I've said it before, these guys are milking players, think they know there is tons of money to be made by pushing back the release as well, they can get another 100 sets out, bought by god knows how many people.
Thing is MMO players are so desperate for a game, they willing to forgive, or turn a blind eye to anything, and you will always get the unscrupulous jumping in to take advantage, yes looking at you AoC
I have zero trust in these guys what so ever.
then why are you posting a recruitment thread?
why are you here?
if you are mad about this and have zero trust, then I hope you are also mad at every fast food place in the world for using the color red on their logo, or at anyone who offers discounts or coupon codes, or any way to sell at all.
Depraved
1
Re: Feels Like a Cash Grab!
This, I've said it before, these guys are milking players, think they know there is tons of money to be made by pushing back the release as well, they can get another 100 sets out, bought by god knows how many people.
Thing is MMO players are so desperate for a game, they willing to forgive, or turn a blind eye to anything, and you will always get the unscrupulous jumping in to take advantage, yes looking at you AoC
I have zero trust in these guys what so ever.
I can understand the whole Comment. However ... ...
What harmed my Ability to trust a little bit - is this cold, calculated " When do i shit into People's Expectations WHEN for the best Moment to do so ? " - from dear Sir Steven himself.
We were told for over half a Year that the Alpha Two would come in Quarter Three of 2024. And in September 2023 it was announced that it will come in 2024.
Now i am kinda aware of what is going on. People started to get more and more butthurt when the Game didn't release in the likes of November 2021.
What i don't know is - > did Sir Steven and his mighty Crew ever told People before :
" Ey Yo, dear Fans. We are developing an Engine that will EEEAAASILY TAKE until the Month of May 2024 or the likes to become functioning/stable enough - so that we can put "MASSIVE" in MMO back ?!? "
Probably not, right ?
So the cold Calculations began in Sir Steven's Head and the Heads of his mighty Crew ... ... ... ... "WHEN" to announce an Alpha Two ? Before People let the Game ULTIMATELY die - in their minds and hearts ?
Yikes !! September 2023. We pushed it now for a while already since late 2021 - hopefully this is not to late to make People come back - despite them probably being pissed off as hell now.
Then the "Quarter Three" Announcement in around December(?) 19th(ish?) ... ... ... ... ... gotta keep counting on People's desperate Hope and Copium. And the ones who developed a rightful Hatred for the likes of Activision Lizzard and other, incompetent or arrogant Companies. (lol)
Oh sheesh. June is here. And the Codings take their sweet time as always.
Oh, sh~eeesh. July is here. And the Codings take their sweet time as always.
Oh, DAMN. August is here - aaannnd ... ... ... ... ... okay it is still taking forever. Better say now that we need to delay it once again, before People get anymore pissed off in the coming Weeks where they have waited even longer when hearing the next Delay.
And - HEEREE - WEE - AAARE. (lol)
I see the "fine, barely existing Test-Weekends" as a tiny Delay as well. Hell i as someone who wants to play a Summoner one Day in the future in case i will still be alive when Ashes launches,
have to wait for May 1th in 2025 or more until i can finally even just "test" my already favourite Archetype then.
Sir Steven and his mighty Crew are carefully balancing the Weights. Butthurt versus Hope. Hope versus Butthurt.
When to announce what or anything at all ?!? - and when to kick People into the nuts with admitting that there need to be Delays still ?
There is a Reason i can forgive anything, despite feeling so betrayed and thrown under the Bus at times.
" GOOD - things - TAKE - time. "
And since i just know Ashes of Creation aspires to be a VEERY good MMO Game - and i hear from time to time again that not th~aaaat many People work on it at dear Intrepid,
i just have no Choice but to accept the facts that everything is - as it is.
And all the "SCAM !! SCAM!!"-Cry'ers will never shut up anyways. It is their Life-work, hell - there REASON FOR EXISTENCE to behave like annoying Adult-Children throwing a Temper-Tantrum in the (virtual) Streets of the Internet - screeching and trashing around everytime something is not going according to their will.
I bet most of these People have no Idea how tough coding and programming an MMO can be.
Aszkalon
1
Re: Consternation surrounding the 8x8 Class system and how to move forward.
Steven didn't say anything in his recent response that we didn't already know.Yea I think the 'STFU and wait' crowd has just been temporarily silent due to being proven wrong.
There is no new info from him that he hasn't said years ago.
Dygz
1
Re: Feels Like a Cash Grab!
Honestly, it feels like you guys are trying to cash in early on the hype AoC has generated over the years. If you wanted more players to test your game, there were plenty of ways to do that without charging $100+ just to playtest. I get that you're not a big-budget AAA studio, but these Alpha 2 keys feel pretty scummy, especially coming from a company that was started because MMORPGs were full of these exact kinds of scummy moves.
For those who want to defend this $100+ alpha access, go ahead—give me a solid reason. Right now, it feels like, "Hey, let's make some quick cash off of these desperate MMO players. Hahaha!" (cue Steven laughing maniacally).
And to the inevitable "yOu dOnT hAvE to support this, plenty of good games out there" crowd, let me just say: I've watched every single livestream since the Unreal 5 reveal, spent way too much time on the wiki, and haunted the Discord like a ghost. Also, let's be real most games out there suck.
Finally, I think only Phase 3 keys should've been sold, and they should've been cheaper, or at least bundled with something that gives access to the betas too.
Of course part of it is wanting cash games cost a lot to make! I am sure they have had wishful thinking or suddenly they want to add more stuff that goes off budget. Look at sony spending 200 million on that dumpster fire concord or GTA 6 from what i have read is at somewhere between 1.3 to 2 Billion to make so far. Also UE5 takes a cut of games made with it so who knows what Intrepid has to pay especially if they have 100k people running around on persistant servers even if they are alpha 2.
More to the point of a 100 dollars it is a filter to screen out those who are serious and those who are not plain and simple! I am not saying that people who can't afford the 100+ are not serious but money is the easiest, quickest and cheapest way to filter.
Zehlan
2
Re: Simple question. Do you want Ashes to succeed, or fail?
Ludullu_(NiKr) wrote: »
If you can't get it, I have extra beta keys from Kickstart and I could gift you one.
Hey just a shot in the dark but if you still have that code I'd really like it. I missed the last package window by a week and now keys are two weeks later entry
Re: Consternation surrounding the 8x8 Class system and how to move forward.
Yea I think the 'STFU and wait' crowd has just been temorarily silent due to being proven wrong.
Buy the way Azherae, I'd like to keep getting yor input on the class fantasies thread.
Idk why you think anyone has been proven wrong, its not worth it investing energy into people that don't know what they are talking about.
Mag7spy
2
Re: Consternation surrounding the 8x8 Class system and how to move forward.
Ok, none of this seems to indicate the thing I'm asking for.
My group thanks you for the response though.
Keep in mind that even though everyone knows the class fantasy for Rogue and we saw a demo of the class fantasy for Rogue/Ranger in 2017, we still have not seen an Alpha Showcase for Rogue in 7 years and Rogue won't be ready for the start of Alpha 2.
I played a Ranger in the first playable demo for Ashes at Pax West 2017. The devs have known the class fantasy for Ranger for 7 years, but still took them that long to implement Ranger as playable in the game.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qKzAOQKCelk&t=101s
And, in turn, for all those who may not see why I disagree with Dygz on this, it's a perception thing.
Dygz believes class fantasy things are known, and we should wait. I believe that Toast did not intend to just 'boost engagement' or 'have the community chat' in the three separate class-related Dev Discussion threads made since 2020.
It probably comes down to the differences in our views of development, both our personal experiences, and our perceptions of Intrepid's methods. The reason for my question was that sometimes, Dygz, being my senior on these forums, can point to things that I'm unaware of to indicate the basis of the perspective.
Mine are here. (Intrepid probably does not want you necro-ing these threads, we have enough on the matter right now)
Azherae
1