Best Of
Re: PvE difficulty or a lack thereof
This is why I liked FFXI, you needed a party with a good comp to efficiently grind xp. you either learned how to play and gear yourself properly or loose whatever xp you worked for
Apok
2
Re: World boss and greater loot drop idea/discussion
Regarding some crafted stuff with the boss loot.
There was a old game about 20 years ago I don't know if anyone still remembers because its launch was so horrible. Age of Conan.
One of the most sought after swords in the game was something that you got from one of the Raid bosses. However you didn't just kill the boss and collect loot and boom you have the sword.
No, you had to have a crafter leveled of the right kind.
You had to have THAT crafter get the recipe from another boss somewhere else.
You had to have THAT crafter get the ingredients from another separate boss elsewhere for that craft.
And then the best part, during the the boss fight, there was a specific mechanic happening where the boss was channeling magic against the raid. It was a tricky thing to do but you could utilize things in the room to use that boss mechanic to power up and activate a magical crafting station.
And that was the only time and place you could craft that item, and it was not a simple matter to do so either.
Have someone standing still in the middle of a rage inducing raid fight, other people working to activate and keep active the crafting station, and the craftsman hastily trying to complete the craft.
It was kind of cool.
There was a old game about 20 years ago I don't know if anyone still remembers because its launch was so horrible. Age of Conan.
One of the most sought after swords in the game was something that you got from one of the Raid bosses. However you didn't just kill the boss and collect loot and boom you have the sword.
No, you had to have a crafter leveled of the right kind.
You had to have THAT crafter get the recipe from another boss somewhere else.
You had to have THAT crafter get the ingredients from another separate boss elsewhere for that craft.
And then the best part, during the the boss fight, there was a specific mechanic happening where the boss was channeling magic against the raid. It was a tricky thing to do but you could utilize things in the room to use that boss mechanic to power up and activate a magical crafting station.
And that was the only time and place you could craft that item, and it was not a simple matter to do so either.
Have someone standing still in the middle of a rage inducing raid fight, other people working to activate and keep active the crafting station, and the craftsman hastily trying to complete the craft.
It was kind of cool.
Taerrik
1
Re: World boss and greater loot drop idea/discussion
A good concept as your effectivly chaining together yet more consequencies of the event.
Note that you should be including all types of Gatherables and thus proffessions and they could be dispersed over time.
Chopping up the Dragon directly could be the work of Hunters immediatly following its death.
After the body rots the Dragons bones remain and need to be mined the next day.
Exotic Herbs grow from the ground the dragons blood has watered in subsequent days, etc.
Basically the kill spot could be pushing out distinct waves of resources over time each bringing different gatherers.
Note that you should be including all types of Gatherables and thus proffessions and they could be dispersed over time.
Chopping up the Dragon directly could be the work of Hunters immediatly following its death.
After the body rots the Dragons bones remain and need to be mined the next day.
Exotic Herbs grow from the ground the dragons blood has watered in subsequent days, etc.
Basically the kill spot could be pushing out distinct waves of resources over time each bringing different gatherers.
Lodrig
1
Re: Loot System Changes
The everyone gets a trophy crowd is gonna be disappointed.
As long as intrepid enforces in chat agreed upon loot rules it'll be fine. Don't play with people you don't trust or better yet join a guild.
So me taking 2ish hours of my time to prep for a fight and being a key asset in winning that fight would still constitute "a everyone gets a trophy" mindset? You are not using that terminology correctly.
No, it will not be fine. This game will be limited to guilds already formed in other MMOs transfering over. Which is fine if this game can survive with only those numbers.
Players like me, and the majority of the thread, know that taking loot power out of other players hands and into the game itself is what is best for a healthy and good community. Why? Because at the end of the day if everyone in a group invested a significant amount of time and effort, they actually do deserve to be rewarded, by the game and not some sweat.
Games with these mechanics have the healthiest communities. Games without have garbage communities from a Macro scale. If your in the sweaty guild, especially at the top, its probably great and all the lackeys have Stockholm syndrome from fiending over loot, so it probably all feels great to them too. Outside of that, garbage.
The only reason the old style MMOs survived is because that's all we had. That isn't the case anymore. New players WILL get frustrated and WILL leave the second they need to answer to some other player for loot and gear.
Someone else said something that this game is more focused on social implications or something? Guess what, I'm not going to want to attribute to anything if I need to ask for it from another player and run the risk of not getting what I want due to another players decision. Especially after I already committed a lot of my time and effort into a fight or event. I earned it, and so did everyone else.
At the end of the day, Intrepid can do what they see fit but I won't play it and that is OK. However, loot systems are important and other players, especially new ones, will also not tolerate it.
Mdini
3
Re: [Feedback Request] Alpha Two Citadel of the Steel Bloom & Firebrand Preview | August Livestream
Thought the dungeon looked like fun, slow intentional pulls were good, enjoy the fact that every pull requires some work, not just pull and destroy in seconds. Lighting and visuals look great, but maybe turn down the god rays slightly.
Firebrand fight was very interesting and fun to watch. Hoping that the fight will actually last longer than it did, think it was a very short boss fight, especially considering during release there will be a very large amount of people going for it and not just the one raid. If you are the initial raid fighting the boss and are attacked by another raid trying to steal it, is there a timer for the health regen of the boss? Is the idea to balance defending our kill and defending against the attackers?
Also agree with some of the things mentioned before that when he lands I would expect some ground shaking or knees bending by the dragon. Also, some slight AOE indicators, and more tactical aspects to the fight, wind gust from the wings causing a stagger or knockback, maybe rear up on his hind legs and stomp down to cause damage/knockdown to the close range attackers, would like to see more things to dodge and pay attention to. Overall, I thought it looked great, looking forward to testing soon.
Firebrand fight was very interesting and fun to watch. Hoping that the fight will actually last longer than it did, think it was a very short boss fight, especially considering during release there will be a very large amount of people going for it and not just the one raid. If you are the initial raid fighting the boss and are attacked by another raid trying to steal it, is there a timer for the health regen of the boss? Is the idea to balance defending our kill and defending against the attackers?
Also agree with some of the things mentioned before that when he lands I would expect some ground shaking or knees bending by the dragon. Also, some slight AOE indicators, and more tactical aspects to the fight, wind gust from the wings causing a stagger or knockback, maybe rear up on his hind legs and stomp down to cause damage/knockdown to the close range attackers, would like to see more things to dodge and pay attention to. Overall, I thought it looked great, looking forward to testing soon.
_k00k_
1
Re: Vassal resentment
after today's podcast. I am 100% one of the petty & vindictive people that won't accept being a vassal no matter what the reward structure looks like. the thought of someone else being in an inherently better position than me (if not mechanically then prestige wise) is something I tend to act in resentment of. I would rather do everything to tear down the owning node than join it in any capacity.
there are absolutely going to be people like that in the game.
now that being said. we have not actually tried the vassal system at all. but what are the community's initial view on it?
it seems to me that a lot of people are having a gut reaction to immediately want to rebel but are there some who see this in a more optimistic light?
I am curious, and this goes for @Ludullu_(NiKr) as well, is there no reward structure that would have you be happy living in a vassal node?
Let's say you get access to all the services of your parent node anyway, even if for a few of them you have to travel 5 minutes to get there, and you get an extra 5% boost to XP and gold that the parent citizens don't get. Just as an example where game-mechanically you are better off in the vassal node than if you were to make that node the parent node.
Is there any point where you would be happy being the vassal? Or does the pride aspect mean more than anything else?
Nerror
2
Re: PvE difficulty or a lack thereof
Players need to change their mindset to open world adventure mmo. They need to stop using words like PvE and PvP.
You need to craft gear to completent you class to respond to all enemies, and succeed in it's dual function, eg mage, dps while killing mobs and bosses, nuker when targeting players.
The difficulting setting of PvE is a false premise if you dont take in account the chances that you would face hostile players and so you need to conserve your MP and skill cooldowns.
The joy perhaps that AoC is aimng for isnt whether you have fun killing mobs with a fun rotation but rather if you and your group master the game and achive your goals, and impose your will on none allied guilds and nodes.
Dont expect the challenge and satisfaction of games that sell currated instanced encounters full of intense mechanics like wow and Tera, dont expend Souls Like mob complexities and dont expect Tekken like combat seen in ESO and BDO.
Those games lack in the variety of things that mmos should design well:
Adventuring questing
Raiding
Sieging and guild wars
Duels and small scale encounters
Crafting and economy
You need to craft gear to completent you class to respond to all enemies, and succeed in it's dual function, eg mage, dps while killing mobs and bosses, nuker when targeting players.
The difficulting setting of PvE is a false premise if you dont take in account the chances that you would face hostile players and so you need to conserve your MP and skill cooldowns.
The joy perhaps that AoC is aimng for isnt whether you have fun killing mobs with a fun rotation but rather if you and your group master the game and achive your goals, and impose your will on none allied guilds and nodes.
Dont expect the challenge and satisfaction of games that sell currated instanced encounters full of intense mechanics like wow and Tera, dont expend Souls Like mob complexities and dont expect Tekken like combat seen in ESO and BDO.
Those games lack in the variety of things that mmos should design well:
Adventuring questing
Raiding
Sieging and guild wars
Duels and small scale encounters
Crafting and economy
Re: Is there a problem for solo players
AirborneBerserker wrote: »Really?AirborneBerserker wrote: »First there is no reason to assume most people are in guilds given most MMO players are solo, meaning at best your looking at 50% of people being in guilds.
Where are they?
I often literally go months in an MMORPG without seeing a non-guilded character that is above level 10.
Are you talking about this game?
No, I'm talking about almost any MMORPG.
I almost never see unguilded players out running content. There are a few around town - mostly low level shit-talking alts.
The notion that half of MMORPG players are unguilded is kind of a wild claim, tbh.
Noaani
3
Re: [Feedback Request] Alpha Two Citadel of the Steel Bloom & Firebrand Preview | August Livestream
How do you feel about the Citadel of the Steel Bloom & Firebrand Preview?
The fog, dust, bloom, and sunrays were far too rampant and too extreme. They need to be dialed back as it makes it impossible to see anything.
Is there anything in particular you’re excited or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Citadel of the Steel Bloom & Firebrand Preview?
I'm concerned about the lack of contesting parties being shown, since this is a PvX game. What happens if another group comes and fights you during the event? I think this is an important part of the game that needs to be represented in the streams.
I thought the part where the NPC was walking to the altar was a bit undercooked. You want this to be a memorable character, not just a moving jpg. I think in general, the Citadel was not showcased in a very flattering way. I think it would have been a good idea for Steven to hop on a flying mount for a couple seconds to give an aerial view of the dungeon.
I also think Firebrand shouldnt just be sitting idle after spawning in and flying down, but I guess that was likely just for the stream. He should have playful idle animations, sleeping animations, nesting animations, etc.
Firebrand Mechanics:
I thought the first phase of Firebrand was a little lacking mechanics wise, but I think it picked up a lot during the second phase. I really liked the flame devouring mechanic that buffs his damage, but also saw someone mention a mechanic where Firebrand could trap someone in a ball of flame and devour them if the group doesnt perform an action (maybe a DPS check or some other thing).
I also think that a prevalent problem with the mobs and bosses in ashes is they don't do anything EXCEPT damage or applying debuffs. I would expect things like the tail swipe to launch players out of position if they are hit. I would expect slam moves to knock people down. I would expect roaring attacks to silence people.
Are there similar areas or enemies you’ve seen in other games that you like or dislike? If so, please explain!
Placidusax from Elden Ring: https://youtu.be/Xc5jJvPOeWo
Bayle from the Elden Ring DLC: https://youtu.be/ZY3yT174dGg
The fog, dust, bloom, and sunrays were far too rampant and too extreme. They need to be dialed back as it makes it impossible to see anything.
Is there anything in particular you’re excited or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Citadel of the Steel Bloom & Firebrand Preview?
I'm concerned about the lack of contesting parties being shown, since this is a PvX game. What happens if another group comes and fights you during the event? I think this is an important part of the game that needs to be represented in the streams.
I thought the part where the NPC was walking to the altar was a bit undercooked. You want this to be a memorable character, not just a moving jpg. I think in general, the Citadel was not showcased in a very flattering way. I think it would have been a good idea for Steven to hop on a flying mount for a couple seconds to give an aerial view of the dungeon.
I also think Firebrand shouldnt just be sitting idle after spawning in and flying down, but I guess that was likely just for the stream. He should have playful idle animations, sleeping animations, nesting animations, etc.
Firebrand Mechanics:
I thought the first phase of Firebrand was a little lacking mechanics wise, but I think it picked up a lot during the second phase. I really liked the flame devouring mechanic that buffs his damage, but also saw someone mention a mechanic where Firebrand could trap someone in a ball of flame and devour them if the group doesnt perform an action (maybe a DPS check or some other thing).
I also think that a prevalent problem with the mobs and bosses in ashes is they don't do anything EXCEPT damage or applying debuffs. I would expect things like the tail swipe to launch players out of position if they are hit. I would expect slam moves to knock people down. I would expect roaring attacks to silence people.
Are there similar areas or enemies you’ve seen in other games that you like or dislike? If so, please explain!
Placidusax from Elden Ring: https://youtu.be/Xc5jJvPOeWo
Bayle from the Elden Ring DLC: https://youtu.be/ZY3yT174dGg
Re: will this game ever launch
we all respect the hard work the team is putting in and we understand that development can take time, however at some point we need to start asking the questions and stop using this as the narrative. Everybody here loves how ambitious the project is and stevens vision but i think its about time intrepid stop treating the people funding this project like we are naive children
there are a a hardcore group of intrepid fans that make any negative post on the forums almost obsolete because every time one is made they rush to intrepid's defense like intrepid is developing the cure for cancer.
its about time that intrepid start answering the real questions we have and stop beating around the bush, every single live stream at this point feels like we are watching a bunch of politicians, and every question chosen for the ama's are just the select few that can be answered without giving out any information.
we need to stop using '' what other company is this transparent '' as a defensive mechanism because that can only go so far when you realize that that this game has been funded through the community following the project, obviously we understand that steven has put in his personal funds but also steven will be the one that benefits once the game is complete, i think we are in the ball park of what 40+ million dollars funded by the community on pre order packs and keys, so obviously the company should be transparent that is expected at this point..
120$ for an alpha 2 key is ridiculous, AAA games are selling finished games for less than this, and as we all know steven's background in sales, stating '' don't buy this if you are looking for a finished game '' but then adding FOMO elements to packages, just contradict each other, furthurmore everyone that got FOMO'd into buying A2 for 250$ when packages were apparently ending and then bringing them back for half the price should be borderline illegal,
i have heared you are saying this is not a game and then saying that it is a game within the same sentence whilst delivering your '' dont buy this if you want to play a full game speech '' at this point we all know what you are doing, the packs are a cash grab and if you need cash be transparent about it.
it also needs to be said that intrepid are stating in the livestreams that they NEED testers yet putting it behind a paywall is just insane, atleast pay the people testing for you with in game time or embers or something
now for the real questions, i personally believe that the game is looking great, i love the visuals and i think that what we have seen has come a long way, but what we have seen is probably 1/10th of what is planned, and we are 8 years into development, we have continuously missed without fail every deadline intrepid has ever given us, the character creator was suppose the be released before A2 when A2 had a Q3 release date, and this is not a direct quote but something along the lines was said that it was basically finished, yet we have only ever seen the same two models over and over again, all models look basically the same on the live streams, the dwarf looks terrible, yet we have videos two years old of the character creator pretty much being fleshed out
its been stated A2 will last a year + from the real release of pretty much Q3 2025, so i would guess that with the way development goes over at intrepid we will have a 9 month delay from A2 to the betas and then they will drag out with missed timelines just like the previous A1/A2, we have waited 3 years for A2 since A1 and the one thing that was promised '' a persistent up time until launch '' has also been removed, you can spin it however you want but people bought in with expectations that A2 would be up 24/7 from release and that is the way that it was sold to us
we have still not seen
any secondaries
Naval content
nodes higher than level 3
16/18 biomes?
the rogue
the summoner
bounty hunting
duels
monster coins
the list goes on and on and would take me to long to type out, the content planned for A2 sounds good on paper, when you deep dive into every system announced realistically its very lackluster and will most likely have a content drought a week or two in.
after alpha 2 we are most likely going to be 11-12 years into development, thats 1/3rd or more of most of our lives, there are people that have purchased packs here expecting to play in 2020 like it was stated in the kickstarter that are no longer with us due to dying of old age before this game was released, this is not shade its just facts,
intrepid you can develop the most beautiful game in the world and show us tiny portions of this during the live stream but it all means nothing if the game never gets past development, as someone that did purcahse into the game and did so to support the company and vision '' i will add i don't regret this decision '' but i will be honest its time that we would like to see where all our money has gone, 40 million dollars plus in crowd funding its about time you are open with us and give us a real time line or road map, as the latest live stream was just a kick in the face to anyone that has really been following this project
im ready for all the hate this post will get and for the intrepid hardcore fans to come out of the woodwork to defend their Messiah, but you know what i don't care.
I'll take the bait. The game is progressing nicely. No complaints about the timeline. You mention, and then agree with the ambition of the project, but then want it faster. You can't have both.
The monetization, is talked about in 9 other topics on the first page of this forum.
Time table wise, we will have to wait as they make something good. We can see the effort and progress, so it's not like they are sitting on their hands. What else do you want?
"Are we there yet?"
No, we are not there yet.
yes i would like it done faster, its crazy that this has become the narrative to make people look bad by wanting this, we are 40 million dollars plus in donations to this game so yes after 8 years i would like the game to be past A2 by now, when we are still 4-5 years + from a release from what i can see
There were clearly challenges and meaningful changes that needed to happen.
There may be more. Intrepid is a small studio in a specific sense, even now. They're barely growing out of it.
You get updates every month, and you, yourself, have almost always been positive or mostly-positive toward the updates. Steven has never done this before, and that means he has to be given some leeway to make mistakes, change his mind on things, etc.
In the meantime, if you show your support for the ideas of Ashes, other games will come. They will be reminded of the old days when those ideas still had a foothold and they will start to put them back into their MMORPGs.
Just play those games until Ashes comes out.
I'm not trying to 'apologize' for things like the AMA Livestream, I didn't like it either, but what's the point of the negativity toward the game itself?
If you rag on Steven, he will probably face that, but 'it's time to see where our money has gone'... just assume that what you see is what they have managed so far, and if you're super disappointed by that, then... what?
"You're slow and you're making mistakes!" changes nothing.
i agree he has never done this before, but you know what he has done? Sales, and many of them, and what he is doing with the A2 keys is straight cringe and steven should know better,
Chicago
1