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Re: Loot System Changes
Players can also to be kicked out from the group before the looting starts.
That is not a good thing
A guild need to fill to manage a raid.
They invite a couple of players, just to kick them before loot starts to ensure the guild gets the loot.
Or any raidleader really who want to make sure his competition is gone before the loot, so he kicks everyone who might need on the same drops.
don't group with that guild then ;3
Thank you for demonstrating the point. These sort of loot systems discourage players from assisting each other because the game enables very easy, unpunished ways for the group lead to screw people over.
you are only thinking about the immediate consequences, not future ones. A system like that promotes good behavior. this isn't a game where you will be running instances 24/7 and using cross server queues to go into them and never see the same person again (or be stuck with them). you can literally choose who you play with. play wit the good people. your actions have consequences. ruin your reputation in a server and you are doomed.
I’m thinking of the overall social atmosphere the game will create if these sort of loot systems are the norm. It’s not about immediate consequences, it’s about how players will not be encouraged or want to cooperate with others because the systems at play are designed to not reward them.
You are vastly overestimating how much influence a reputation will have when the large guilds most likely to abuse these systems are already set up to have immense influence over castles/nodes/etc. Most of the community will just shrug and tell slighted players the same thing: ‘well, that’s on you for not picking a group better’ as if it were their fault some people decided to be an ass.
As for the other portion of your post, if 1000 people show up to nuke a lvl25 dragon, I would first expect the dragon to scale up significantly so it doesn’t just fall over like a sack of flour.
Secondly, many games use some kind of metric to grant looting rights in the event of zerging like that. Whether that’s a fixed amount of damage done, time engaged with the boss, average threat held, healing done, damage mitigated, buffs contributed etc, would be up to the devs, but contributors to a fight should all be rewarded in some way even if it’s only crafting materials they’ll then have to take to a node and craftsperson to turn into something actually useful.
again, different game. the game promotes not doing shitty things like that to other people because of the social consequences. it promotes good behaviour. you do that to most people who play ow pvx games and you get perma camped out in the open world, for example. cant do that when you are in instance queues 24/7.
2nd point. raid wont scale depending amount of players., confirmed by steven. all contributors shouldn't be rewarded. as you said, other games do that, not ashes. not everybody is a winner here ;3
Social consequences should exist in addition to gameplay mechanics that minimize abuse potential rather that enable it. They are not a replacement for mindful reward systems, if they even work at all, which they're definitely not going to when that big toxic guild owns a castle or node. Good luck blacklisting the Patron Guild of the economic node.
Also, link the source for that change in raid approach, because it would be, in no uncertain terms, extremely idiotic to not have a scale-up mechanic on open world bosses.
Not a single person here is after an easy street farming experience, but everyone deserves to be rewards for taking on and defeating challenging content at risk of their time, gear degradation, PvP and PvE death penalties. I'm in full favor of instituting merit requirements to get looting rights as I said before, but that should be handled by the game, not by other players.
Players have proven many a time that they cannot responsibly handle those player-controlled loot systems.
Caeryl
4
Re: Menacing Melody is WAY too over-powered
10% of 10 is 1.10% is 10%
10% of 1000 is 100.
Since the cost of running the melody is the same, the actual value of it is based on how much damage you are already doing. However, the thing to keep in mind is that even this isn't necessarily true - if you are against an encounter that you already have enough DPS present to defeat, all that melody does is save a little bit of time - and it will be less time saved than the run speed boost.
Again, there are indeed times when that 10% damage boost will be clutch. There are also, however, many times when it won't be.
Also everything have a counter. We just don't know what that is. All the base classes have not even dropped. I also think clerics and Bards will be the first targets in every encounter.
Re: Menacing Melody is WAY too over-powered
10% of 10 is 1.10% is 10%
10% of 1000 is 100.
Since the cost of running the melody is the same, the actual value of it is based on how much damage you are already doing. However, the thing to keep in mind is that even this isn't necessarily true - if you are against an encounter that you already have enough DPS present to defeat, all that melody does is save a little bit of time - and it will be less time saved than the run speed boost.
Again, there are indeed times when that 10% damage boost will be clutch. There are also, however, many times when it won't be.
Noaani
1
Re: Boneworking
I agree. We need more gothic items. Drink from a skull like Conan did
I knew You would like his Comment. .
This is the right Time to ask for something like this and make Suggestions. Alpha Two is drawing closer and we should mention it while it is still early in the Day/Year.
Aszkalon
2
Re: Menacing Melody is WAY too over-powered
This is what will be balanced in A2. I'm sure all sorts of things will be adjusted.
Re: Loot System Changes
George_Black wrote: »You mentioned the two systems going against the intended design of the economy, caravan systems, in depth crafting, importance of freeholds (which brings back the value of property as more than just RP decorating contests that nobody cares for and wont visit your house anyway). And on top of it some people call the alternative (the old school) nostalgia or labelling it mean spirited designed to punish participants.
You want all players to receive loot and you want AH? So you want the economy to be reduced to a cheaper than previous listing peanut gains competition since the markets will be flooded with the participation trophy loot?
So basically gear will be so easily accessible that there wont be a need to craft and equip characters, they can just bare with the loot gear for the next few levels, avoid spending time in gathering processing crafting and all the indepth meaningful mmo designed gameplay, since, know, there will be cheap gear in the AH for the next few levels and we can make this whole mmo into yet another race to the max level.
Yes, there isnt much thought going into these possitions and when they are countered the default action is to go into victimhood, and derail the topic to a back and forth of "you dont know what you are talking about" making it hard for anybody tasked with gathering feedback to bother clicking on the next page.
AoC will be complex because it wants to bring back quality mmo gameplay as opposed to instant gratification and 0 challenge designs.
These proposals wont work.
I personally don’t think the system is designed to punish players, I think the intention is good hearted but short sighted and could be better. I refer to it as nostalgic because it doesn’t exist in modern gaming and has been replaced with different and better working systems. I do think the design encourages bad actors to act bad with no downside other than the fictitious fear that you’ll become blacklisted. If you’ve ever played EQ1 or EQ2 you would quickly realize there are entire guilds that take pride in ninja looting and screwing people over that say it’s just “roleplay”.
All of the MMOs mentioned in this thread with updated looting systems - FFXIV, ESO, Guild Wars 2, etc have thriving economies, meaningful crafting, challenging PvP, open world bosses, raids, flourishing auction houses / markets. Rushing to max level or end game is a personal choice rather than a game design flaw as long as there’s enough engaging content throughout. Keep in mind, not everyone wants to chop wood, gather berries or craft.
The point I’m trying to make is that you may be overvaluing the current loot system’s importance to the overall quality of the economy and undervaluing the unintended consequences of it. We’re looking for a middle ground that allows the devs to review our suggestions and implement them into the game the way they see fit and best. The end goal is to take the control of loot away from the individual player and in the control of the game itself. We do not want someone else deciding whether we are rewarded or not.
Most of the people posting in this thread have been open minded and accepting of different ideas from their experiences with other games, not derailing. Considering AoC is being created by devs whose backgrounds extend across all of the aforementioned games and more, it makes perfect sense to have this conversation. So let’s have it now before it’s too late!
Kleptix
3
Re: Just dropped the $120
I honestly have not been following for a long time, always been intrigued by it. They seem to really have their act together and transparent. I told myself never again, after Star Citizen, but I truly want to support this team and the game just looks to be everything that I could hope for.
Just dropped the $120
Been lurking for a time here, finally had to pull the trigger on this one. Wishing you guys the best in the development cycles. See you in November!
Re: What are your 'class fantasies' for the 64 classes
Bard/Tank - Sirens are able to produce such aluring performances that enemies at short range are compelled to follow the Siren in a trance state for a limited distance. So long as the tranced arn't attacked they will stop attacking and can be lead away. In this way they controls and nulifies enemy aggression while providing a way to pull apart enemy groups.
I think the arguments will play one part of that. The Bards damage shield, also skill that do things like adding a HP container incress etc. Augmented with Tank could shorten the cast time on these skills. Make them add 10% more buffing.
Couple this with Weapons and armour types. Could make a Bard that players in the thick of the frount line. Buffing to help mitigate damage of that frount line. Helping push that front line forward towards victory.
I say this because it was mentioned that the A2 players are really enjoying how weapons and armor types have added allot of depth to their classes and changing their play style. We are only starting to scratch the surface of what makes a class.
Given that armore/weapon flexibility is universal, and should stay that way for all classes. I don't generally feel the need to address it in a class fantasy unless their is a specific interaction. For example Paladins getting a bonus to shield blocking as a class feature. I want to keep even thouse to a minimum so as not to create a defacto 'mandatory' equipment pattern, in the case of Paladins their shielding is so Iconic that it's ok, the same way Rangers kinda are mandated to use bows.
With regard to the Bard/Tank I wanted to focus on the concept of a 'Mezmerizer Tank', aka one which achives the goal of Tanking by stopping attacks from being made rather then taking the attacks. Such a class COULD be built with heavier armor but they dont need to be.
My dream build. My wife loves playing a mage and setting the world on fire. I like to find ways to complement her play style. To tank for her or doing more damage or just keeping her alive.
Ashes makes me able to do all these things in my favorite class, the Bard.
My hopes are this: will post my second build I want later.
First, Bard/Bard. For grouping and raiding. Backline Brad focused or lowering cast time, mana regen, CC package roots, snares and sleeps to keep forces off the casters. Also boosting the Bards run buffs to also help with mobility. This Bard would take a hit in not healing healing would take a slight hit, trading sme of the HP regen to add a split on that song 1/2 to healing and 1/2 for mana regen that stacks with the mana regen song.
I would build this with light armour for the augments for speed. And a ranged wand, book for keeping up with DPE that the Casters and Rangers all at max distance that I am supporting.
I like the idea of Bard/Bard being able to reduce friendly skill cooldowns, it is a universally useful benifit and the kind of thing that can make a doubledown class feel unique from the base archetype, a 'capstone' kind of ability which don'st just feel like being a few levels higher.
Another thing, remember how everyone kept saying that playing 2 melodies at a time ok but 3 would be REALLY cool. I guarantee you that's gonna be an augment and Bard/Bard is the logical class to get it. So you can probably run movement speed, healing and mana regen all at the same time.
Lodrig
1