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Re: Loot System Changes
George_Black wrote: »I am finding it a bit interesting that Intrepid and loot systems in AoC has revived this debate. Is this a case where bringing back that nostalgia is counterproductive to development?
I seem to have this opinion that recent MMO's have solved all these problems. And playing those as someone aware of all those systems. I was a bit taken by surprise when I would receive some loot from a raid boss. I guess it is kind of the Diablo-esque style where a chest drops and everyone with loot rights gets a pull at it.(I mean the loot mechanic, not the number of items that drop or table roll RNG chances and percentages)
The interesting thing about this, I think auction house and player trading completely solves the problem. As I have picked up loot in other games, first waiting for a minute for someone to lambast me for looting. Just to have found something that looks high value but not useable by my character.
Even player trading does not seem mainstream any longer. Where recent experience is that I should not even try to trade, even within my guild. They just tell me don't waste your time or my time. Just go put it on the auction house. Or in Ashes case I guess just go put out my player shop shingle for a while, good loot should sell pretty easily. Poor loot, well just becomes deconstruct for mats.
So I wonder, what is the appetite for guilds to have to manage loot distribution via their own rules? And what is the reason that a guild want to have that level of control on distribution of loot?
You mentioned the two systems going against the intended design of the economy, caravan systems, in depth crafting, importance of freeholds (which brings back the value of property as more than just RP decorating contests that nobody cares for and wont visit your house anyway). And on top of it some people call the alternative (the old school) nostalgia or labelling it mean spirited designed to punish participants.
You want all players to receive loot and you want AH? So you want the economy to be reduced to a cheaper than previous listing peanut gains competition since the markets will be flooded with the participation trophy loot?
So basically gear will be so easily accessible that there wont be a need to craft and equip characters, they can just bare with the loot gear for the next few levels, avoid spending time in gathering processing crafting and all the indepth meaningful mmo designed gameplay, since, know, there will be cheap gear in the AH for the next few levels and we can make this whole mmo into yet another race to the max level.
Yes, there isnt much thought going into these possitions and when they are countered the default action is to go into victimhood, and derail the topic to a back and forth of "you dont know what you are talking about" making it hard for anybody tasked with gathering feedback to bother clicking on the next page.
AoC will be complex because it wants to bring back quality mmo gameplay as opposed to instant gratification and 0 challenge designs.
These proposals wont work.
There is nothing quality or complex about outdated and thoughtless systems. The only thing the current loot system encourages is artificial challenges and frustration for everyone that is not the guild leader and his top 3 or 4 lackeys.
The challenge should be in the content itself (i.e. the battles), if that is done right then the reward after should not have any weight on "instant gratification". How could you say there was instant gratification after having to put in an hour or two of prep, and completing a hard event or boss fight?
What you are saying makes absolutely no sense, unless.... If the content stinks, then sure create artificial challenges like having to deal with loot systems that favor sweats.
Mdini
5
Re: Is there a problem for solo players
Wall of text. I read about four paragraphs and I don't understand what you're saying versus the title of your thread.
I will say this there will be a solo aspect of this game. But don't expect every class to be able to solo well. Those that desire solo play can pick classes that will accommodate that. Much like in EverQuest back in 1999 if you wanted to solo you played a mage a necromancer an enchanter a bard. Other classes could solo to some degree. But you will see many teams of just two or three people doing stuff together and if you want to get real content done you will need a balance team
I will say this there will be a solo aspect of this game. But don't expect every class to be able to solo well. Those that desire solo play can pick classes that will accommodate that. Much like in EverQuest back in 1999 if you wanted to solo you played a mage a necromancer an enchanter a bard. Other classes could solo to some degree. But you will see many teams of just two or three people doing stuff together and if you want to get real content done you will need a balance team
Re: Loot System Changes
I agree. There is absolutely no reason that every participant of a raid doesn't leave in some fashion stronger or better. As cool as that dragon fight looked, as soon as I saw the loot system, I immediately was reminded of every spoiled instance of having to work with toxic guild leaders, greedy players who had clout, ninja looters, selfish players to get the gear I wanted or needed.[/quote]
there is a reason. it's not the nature of the open world boss and the game. so if you bring 1000 players to kill the boss, everyone should geet something, or only the 40 who had loot priority?
this isn't a game where everybody wins all the time and plenty of people like that. instance dungeons might be more of your thing.
edit: everybody remember this isn't the final loot system or rewards .-.[/quote]
I hear what your saying to an extent. I also do not want things to be to the point where it feels meaningless. But the challenge should be in the content itself not social structures governed by sweaty Guild leaders and all of their lackeys.
Being blocked from loot by "the sweats w loot priority" or anyone else taking loot that you have a right to just because they can is only adding artificial challenges and frustration.
So yes, if it takes 40 people 2 hours of prep and 30mins of a hard fought fight, that likely has a timer on it, to kill a Mob, they all should get something that makes them feel empowered.
And the 2 or 4 scrubs that had to be backpacked? They will likely be either educated or blacklisted.
We realize it's not set in stone and that's why we are voicing our opinions now....
there is a reason. it's not the nature of the open world boss and the game. so if you bring 1000 players to kill the boss, everyone should geet something, or only the 40 who had loot priority?
this isn't a game where everybody wins all the time and plenty of people like that. instance dungeons might be more of your thing.
edit: everybody remember this isn't the final loot system or rewards .-.[/quote]
I hear what your saying to an extent. I also do not want things to be to the point where it feels meaningless. But the challenge should be in the content itself not social structures governed by sweaty Guild leaders and all of their lackeys.
Being blocked from loot by "the sweats w loot priority" or anyone else taking loot that you have a right to just because they can is only adding artificial challenges and frustration.
So yes, if it takes 40 people 2 hours of prep and 30mins of a hard fought fight, that likely has a timer on it, to kill a Mob, they all should get something that makes them feel empowered.
And the 2 or 4 scrubs that had to be backpacked? They will likely be either educated or blacklisted.
We realize it's not set in stone and that's why we are voicing our opinions now....
Mdini
1
Re: Loot System Changes
George_Black wrote: »No. It goes against the philosophy of competitiveness. I dont know how you cant see that.
What's more rare, something that drops once at a time or something that drops x20 at a time?
What would create more contest? What would make for a healthier economy?
Do you know what percentage loot table means ? The same item won't drop 20x at a time if there is 1% chance of it dropping. Lots of MMOs have this system like Guild Wars 2 and it doesn't break the economy at all.
I'm sure you're the one that will complain if you never get any drop because your supposedly 'guild mates' take all the loot. The system I'm suggesting isn't about competitiveness or anything else, it's just to be fair for those who took the risk of fighting and succeeded doing so.
I never realized how Guild Wars 2 ran their loot system. I'm for a system that is similar to this. Since everything isn't soul bound, even if I get an item I can't use or don't want, I could trade it or sell/buy for the item I wish I got.
With their current system, everyone will need/greed as much as they can to resell or trade on every item they are able to.
Mdini
4
Re: Loot System Changes
Just make a loot individual with % chance of dropping each item and a world loot where all players fight for that loot so everyone is happy. Must not be that hard to implement ?
Re: Loot System Changes
I might normally feel really unhappy about any job being able to loot stuff they cant use
But since the vast majority of gear is market based, it means I can also grind money in my downtime and just buy it.
Meaning I can run both the content to work towards what I want, and just farm and buy it.
I would hope the few instances of soulbound stuff are already so rare that they arent expected parts of normal wear gear, but that goal gear, the thing that keeps you playin a game because there is always more to get.
But since the vast majority of gear is market based, it means I can also grind money in my downtime and just buy it.
Meaning I can run both the content to work towards what I want, and just farm and buy it.
I would hope the few instances of soulbound stuff are already so rare that they arent expected parts of normal wear gear, but that goal gear, the thing that keeps you playin a game because there is always more to get.
Taerrik
1
Re: Kicker starter backer gets screwed
Back in 2017 when kickstarter was active a 100$ backer got phase two beta but now you can buy with the same $ alpha? If this is the case why not give all kickstarters $100 or more alpha test as well considering backers help push the game forward. Just seems unfair that for $100 backer gets beta and $100 from store gets alpha.
100 USD back then are worth more than 100 USD now. so even though both cost 100, your 100 were more valuable back then and you got things for them.
Depraved
1
Re: Kicker starter backer gets screwed
Back in 2017 when kickstarter was active a 100$ backer got phase two beta but now you can buy with the same $ alpha? If this is the case why not give all kickstarters $100 or more alpha test as well considering backers help push the game forward. Just seems unfair that for $100 backer gets beta and $100 from store gets alpha.
You aren't just buying alpha access u have months of game time and tons of cosmetics. The Alpha key is mainly what you get with the current keys they are selling which its value is much lower then the package you bought.
Mag7spy
2
Re: Will AOC allow third party addons? (ie like wow)
No.
As much as they can manage to police them or discussion about them, they will do that.
As much as they can manage to police them or discussion about them, they will do that.
Azherae
3
Re: Will AOC allow third party addons? (ie like wow)
Addons will not be supported in Ashes of Creation.
The game will be designed in a way that addons will not be a requirement.
The game will be designed in a way that addons will not be a requirement.
Rym
3