Best Of
Re: Instanced Content Should Not Offer Power Gains
Disagree.
Instanced content should also give you meaningful rewards, including gear or materials that are necessary for crafting that gear.
I know your point was specifically against power gains, and not meaningful rewards in general.
In my opinion, instanced content should still provide some level of gear that won't make you useless. It doesn't have to be on the same level as the gear you get from open-world content, or crafted gear.
It could be your starting "endgame" set of gear, which you will replace in a few weeks with better gear you get from open world, or just the materials required for crafting some specific lower level gear (that maybe has no upgrade paths toward something better).
Your 2nd and 3rd points just don't make any sense. Third point especially, because those games are just not like what Ashes is aiming to be, because those games are heavily focused on instanced content, while Ashes will not be, even if it's 20% of all content in game. Open-world in Ashes will not be less meaningful, because all the events are going to happen there, from world bosses, to dungeons, caravans, naval content, OW events in general, etc.
Just because 20% of content is going to be instanced, doesn't mean all of that instanced content will provide power gains.
Just like in most instances, I'd just point out a certain game that a certain important person here has played.
Archeage.
Archeage had instanced dungeons, and they were somewhat of an important part of the game, whether that's for early end-game sets of gear, later for farming mats for gear upgrades, with library especially, or some unique weapons / pieces of gear that certain classes might want to go for.
I have never felt it took away anything from the open-world. It actually added something else to do, something different, which was just as fun.
So in my opinion, more content, and more different content is always welcome. I just do not see it being such a big deal as you are making it out to be, and if anything it can actually help the game attract more people, and give people more content to enjoy the game for longer, so they get bored of doing the same thing every day.
You need to make it worthwhile to do the instanced content though, because if the rewards are not there, or if they are not deemed important by players, then simply players won't do that content.
Instanced content should also give you meaningful rewards, including gear or materials that are necessary for crafting that gear.
I know your point was specifically against power gains, and not meaningful rewards in general.
In my opinion, instanced content should still provide some level of gear that won't make you useless. It doesn't have to be on the same level as the gear you get from open-world content, or crafted gear.
It could be your starting "endgame" set of gear, which you will replace in a few weeks with better gear you get from open world, or just the materials required for crafting some specific lower level gear (that maybe has no upgrade paths toward something better).
Your 2nd and 3rd points just don't make any sense. Third point especially, because those games are just not like what Ashes is aiming to be, because those games are heavily focused on instanced content, while Ashes will not be, even if it's 20% of all content in game. Open-world in Ashes will not be less meaningful, because all the events are going to happen there, from world bosses, to dungeons, caravans, naval content, OW events in general, etc.
Just because 20% of content is going to be instanced, doesn't mean all of that instanced content will provide power gains.
Just like in most instances, I'd just point out a certain game that a certain important person here has played.
Archeage.
Archeage had instanced dungeons, and they were somewhat of an important part of the game, whether that's for early end-game sets of gear, later for farming mats for gear upgrades, with library especially, or some unique weapons / pieces of gear that certain classes might want to go for.
I have never felt it took away anything from the open-world. It actually added something else to do, something different, which was just as fun.
So in my opinion, more content, and more different content is always welcome. I just do not see it being such a big deal as you are making it out to be, and if anything it can actually help the game attract more people, and give people more content to enjoy the game for longer, so they get bored of doing the same thing every day.
You need to make it worthwhile to do the instanced content though, because if the rewards are not there, or if they are not deemed important by players, then simply players won't do that content.
iccer
2
Re: Instanced Content Should Not Offer Power Gains
Correct me if I am wrong but there is not only power gain from instanced PvE (which to my understanding is done for more carefully orchestrated story events) but also for PvP already in the form of Castle and Node Sieges. Pillaging a Node or becoming King of the Castle and its 3 Castle Nodes plus loot sounds like quite the power gain to me, just not exclusively in combat power, right?
So having such specific events occur in instances might be due to: Simply not being possible in an open world (in a technical or an organisational way) or in case of a node siege because that would just ruin the idea of node siege in general with infinite players being able to join randomly... and primarily on the attacking side skewing the balance heavily in one direction disincentivizing defenders to show up.
He's confirmed there will be power rewards in discord. Recently.
The quote was pointing out that most power comes from PvP systems, which is true. There’s nothing wrong with all content types providing rewards.
Keep the power in the open world where both pvp and pve occur simultaneously (PvX)
The vast majority of all types of power gain is in the open world. I'm still not understanding how you've come to the conclusion that 20% of all content being instanced would in any way tip the balance negatively when open world content is by and large the most important sort of power available in the game.
Some bits of gear and gold don't mean anything in the face of controlling a Castle or a Metro node
Avalanches start off as a single flake of snow. I don't want any power from PvE or PvP instancing. If I had my actual way, there would be no instancing at all.
Mostly because I prefer to preserve the integrity of the game instead of giving people an in to start demanding more instanced content.
The appeal of Ashes is that it's going to be seamless, open world with inherent risk. I am against anything that mars that integrity in the slightest. I prefer not to have instancing, but since it will be in the game, rewarding bragging rights and vanity seem like an apt reward; but keeping the power out of it.
Arena PvP will be instanced and has rewards planned already, namely Mayoral control in military nodes.
PvE instances as they've been described are just locked rooms at the end of an otherwise open dungeon, which are necessary to implement fine-tuned mechanics during a fight, and also aren't risk-free.
There aren't going to be queue-in dungeons or fast travel, so even reaching the point of being able to initialize an instanced fight is by definition a PvX experience. You quite literally cannot have both free-for-all PvP and a precision-demanding combat encounter unless TTK is adjusted so that an enemy player could be focused down from 100-0 instantly on sight to prevent them from sabotaging a clear. It's very easy to ruin a run on accident, even easier to do it on purpose.
Caeryl
1
Re: [Feedback Request] Alpha Two Citadel of the Steel Bloom & Firebrand Preview | August Livestream
PS.:
I would like to see more/longer PoVs of other players. Yes, its funny to see Steven stumbling around but it gets old real quick. Proper gameplay of people who know how to play the class is far more interesting than Steven playing tourist, even when they die because they made a mistake or something.
I dont want to offend or anything, but its something that I roled my eyes at months ago, maybe even years. Now it starts to annoy, especially after the bard showcase.
I would like to see more/longer PoVs of other players. Yes, its funny to see Steven stumbling around but it gets old real quick. Proper gameplay of people who know how to play the class is far more interesting than Steven playing tourist, even when they die because they made a mistake or something.
I dont want to offend or anything, but its something that I roled my eyes at months ago, maybe even years. Now it starts to annoy, especially after the bard showcase.
Legi
1
Re: Loot System Changes
Let's not forget the biggest issue with the need greed system.
That one guy that keeps forgetting to click, in every, single instance.
That one guy that keeps forgetting to click, in every, single instance.
Re: Instanced Content Should Not Offer Power Gains
Imo instanced content should give power gains depending on what you have at that time.
Its totally fine when you can obtain decent gear from instanced content, be it PvE or PvP, it just shouldnt be the best gear you can obtain and it should take some grinding to get it. Grinding that takes a considerable amount of time or luck.
I believe that this is actually needed especially as a "catchup mechanic" when newer players cant farm certain items to craft their gear or dont have access to worldbosses because of political/tyrannical structures on their server.
Sure, you can always argue that you just need to farm gold to buy the item from a crafter, but that is pretty dull for alot of people.
Its totally fine when you can obtain decent gear from instanced content, be it PvE or PvP, it just shouldnt be the best gear you can obtain and it should take some grinding to get it. Grinding that takes a considerable amount of time or luck.
I believe that this is actually needed especially as a "catchup mechanic" when newer players cant farm certain items to craft their gear or dont have access to worldbosses because of political/tyrannical structures on their server.
Sure, you can always argue that you just need to farm gold to buy the item from a crafter, but that is pretty dull for alot of people.
Legi
2
Re: Instanced Content Should Not Offer Power Gains
Pretty sure we will get resources and materials from Instances, rather than Gear.
Even if Gear can be obtained there, there's no reason it has to be BiS Gear.
Also, power gains don't always have to be vertical; they could also be horizontal.
Seems like we should hope that horizontal power gains derived from Instances fit thematically.
Even if Gear can be obtained there, there's no reason it has to be BiS Gear.
Also, power gains don't always have to be vertical; they could also be horizontal.
Seems like we should hope that horizontal power gains derived from Instances fit thematically.
Dygz
1
Re: What surprised you in the FireBrand fight?
I'b be more surprised if the brought the egg home and cooked it XD
Mag7spy
1
Re: [Feedback Request] Alpha Two Citadel of the Steel Bloom & Firebrand Preview | August Livestream
the mechanics and attacks are great, but the fight is just WAY too easy... make the flying fire breath one shot people, the charged AoE fire blast one shot, and then we will have a challenging boss
without one shot mechanics this is just going to get rolled through by organized groups
without one shot mechanics this is just going to get rolled through by organized groups
Liniker
2
Re: Instanced Content Should Not Offer Power Gains
Correct me if I am wrong but there is not only power gain from instanced PvE (which to my understanding is done for more carefully orchestrated story events) but also for PvP already in the form of Castle and Node Sieges. Pillaging a Node or becoming King of the Castle and its 3 Castle Nodes plus loot sounds like quite the power gain to me, just not exclusively in combat power, right?
So having such specific events occur in instances might be due to: Simply not being possible in an open world (in a technical or an organisational way) or in case of a node siege because that would just ruin the idea of node siege in general with infinite players being able to join randomly... and primarily on the attacking side skewing the balance heavily in one direction disincentivizing defenders to show up.
He's confirmed there will be power rewards in discord. Recently.
The quote was pointing out that most power comes from PvP systems, which is true. There’s nothing wrong with all content types providing rewards.
Keep the power in the open world where both pvp and pve occur simultaneously (PvX)
The vast majority of all types of power gain is in the open world. I'm still not understanding how you've come to the conclusion that 20% of all content being instanced would in any way tip the balance negatively when open world content is by and large the most important sort of power available in the game.
Some bits of gear and gold don't mean anything in the face of controlling a Castle or a Metro node
Avalanches start off as a single flake of snow. I don't want any power from PvE or PvP instancing. If I had my actual way, there would be no instancing at all.
Mostly because I prefer to preserve the integrity of the game instead of giving people an in to start demanding more instanced content.
The appeal of Ashes is that it's going to be seamless, open world with inherent risk. I am against anything that mars that integrity in the slightest. I prefer not to have instancing, but since it will be in the game, rewarding bragging rights and vanity seem like an apt reward; but keeping the power out of it.
Arena PvP will be instanced and has rewards planned already, namely Mayoral control in military nodes.
PvE instances as they've been described are just locked rooms at the end of an otherwise open dungeon, which are necessary to implement fine-tuned mechanics during a fight, and also aren't risk-free.
There aren't going to be queue-in dungeons or fast travel, so even reaching the point of being able to initialize an instanced fight is by definition a PvX experience. You quite literally cannot have both free-for-all PvP and a precision-demanding combat encounter unless TTK is adjusted so that an enemy player could be focused down from 100-0 instantly on sight to prevent them from sabotaging a clear. It's very easy to ruin a run on accident, even easier to do it on purpose.
Unfortunately, it does exist, I don't like that either. However, there's very little direct player power involved in those systems.
That's the thing, you can have a precision demanding PvE encounter, an open world dungeon can be designed well enough to where that encounter can be defended from PvP incursions enough for the encounter to be completed. I'm sure most players cannot complete the content, that's actually perfectly acceptable to me, then it should create a drive for mastery.
I think the problem here is that maybe the average raiders aren't actually capable of defending their kill and would require PvPers in their guild to aid them, (which is how you will secure open world encounters already). But more so at this point, it seems like instancing is just for the sake of being inconvenienced - like it always has been.
Instancing exists so that developers can craft highly demanding, high precision fights where the boss is meant to be the challenge. Those cannot exist alongside active ongoing PvP because then all that precision is worthless if one single person gets in to troll.
It just means there will be no actually high-end PvE encounters, because the devs would be stuck having to account for it being possible while other groups come in to sabotage the raid, and that’s just dull.
Your assumption that they can coexist in the same encounter is fundamentally flawed.
Caeryl
2
Re: What surprised you in the FireBrand fight?
While there were no surprises for any experienced or semi-experienced MMO player in that dragon fight, Steven sometimes presents things as if the target audience are new players to the genre as well. For someone who hasn't fought a dragon, or boss in general, sure, it might be a little surprising with some of the attacks or adds that give a soft-rage buff to the boss. I am guessing that's the lens it was intended to be viewed through.
Nerror
2