Best Of
Re: Instanced Content Should Not Offer Power Gains
Correct me if I am wrong but there is not only power gain from instanced PvE (which to my understanding is done for more carefully orchestrated story events) but also for PvP already in the form of Castle and Node Sieges. Pillaging a Node or becoming King of the Castle and its 3 Castle Nodes plus loot sounds like quite the power gain to me, just not exclusively in combat power, right?
So having such specific events occur in instances might be due to: Simply not being possible in an open world (in a technical or an organisational way) or in case of a node siege because that would just ruin the idea of node siege in general with infinite players being able to join randomly... and primarily on the attacking side skewing the balance heavily in one direction disincentivizing defenders to show up.
He's confirmed there will be power rewards in discord. Recently.
The quote was pointing out that most power comes from PvP systems, which is true. There’s nothing wrong with all content types providing rewards.
Keep the power in the open world where both pvp and pve occur simultaneously (PvX)
The vast majority of all types of power gain is in the open world. I'm still not understanding how you've come to the conclusion that 20% of all content being instanced would in any way tip the balance negatively when open world content is by and large the most important sort of power available in the game.
Some bits of gear and gold don't mean anything in the face of controlling a Castle or a Metro node
Avalanches start off as a single flake of snow. I don't want any power from PvE or PvP instancing. If I had my actual way, there would be no instancing at all.
Mostly because I prefer to preserve the integrity of the game instead of giving people an in to start demanding more instanced content.
The appeal of Ashes is that it's going to be seamless, open world with inherent risk. I am against anything that mars that integrity in the slightest. I prefer not to have instancing, but since it will be in the game, rewarding bragging rights and vanity seem like an apt reward; but keeping the power out of it.
Arena PvP will be instanced and has rewards planned already, namely Mayoral control in military nodes.
PvE instances as they've been described are just locked rooms at the end of an otherwise open dungeon, which are necessary to implement fine-tuned mechanics during a fight, and also aren't risk-free.
There aren't going to be queue-in dungeons or fast travel, so even reaching the point of being able to initialize an instanced fight is by definition a PvX experience. You quite literally cannot have both free-for-all PvP and a precision-demanding combat encounter unless TTK is adjusted so that an enemy player could be focused down from 100-0 instantly on sight to prevent them from sabotaging a clear. It's very easy to ruin a run on accident, even easier to do it on purpose.
Unfortunately, it does exist, I don't like that either. However, there's very little direct player power involved in those systems.
That's the thing, you can have a precision demanding PvE encounter, an open world dungeon can be designed well enough to where that encounter can be defended from PvP incursions enough for the encounter to be completed. I'm sure most players cannot complete the content, that's actually perfectly acceptable to me, then it should create a drive for mastery.
I think the problem here is that maybe the average raiders aren't actually capable of defending their kill and would require PvPers in their guild to aid them, (which is how you will secure open world encounters already). But more so at this point, it seems like instancing is just for the sake of being inconvenienced - like it always has been.
Instancing exists so that developers can craft highly demanding, high precision fights where the boss is meant to be the challenge. Those cannot exist alongside active ongoing PvP because then all that precision is worthless if one single person gets in to troll.
It just means there will be no actually high-end PvE encounters, because the devs would be stuck having to account for it being possible while other groups come in to sabotage the raid, and that’s just dull.
Your assumption that they can coexist in the same encounter is fundamentally flawed.
Caeryl
2
Re: What surprised you in the FireBrand fight?
While there were no surprises for any experienced or semi-experienced MMO player in that dragon fight, Steven sometimes presents things as if the target audience are new players to the genre as well. For someone who hasn't fought a dragon, or boss in general, sure, it might be a little surprising with some of the attacks or adds that give a soft-rage buff to the boss. I am guessing that's the lens it was intended to be viewed through.
Nerror
2
Re: Instanced Content Should Not Offer Power Gains
Yea this whole thread looks like its motivated by PvP elitists who demand that thouse filthy PvE's not get any gear that could possibly threaten their betters with.
Lodrig
1
Re: Down time and res, can more classes have this skill?
This is what you call streamlining, it makes a lot of modern games suck which is why this game got backed in the first place
Apok
3
Re: What surprised you in the FireBrand fight?
to me as an experienced raider it seemed very straight forward but when I take into account that this is only a level 25 raid boss I'm quite impressed. the difficulty seems to be above what I'm used to for such a low level.
they have said that they are making ashes a relatively hard MMO. and from what I saw today I am overjoyed that they seem to be living up to that promise.
I also really enjoyed the model and animations of Firebrand. personally I'd like the boss to operate at a higher pace. but I'm sure I'll get plenty of hectic high paced fights at higher levels so I'm not fussed about it.
they have said that they are making ashes a relatively hard MMO. and from what I saw today I am overjoyed that they seem to be living up to that promise.
I also really enjoyed the model and animations of Firebrand. personally I'd like the boss to operate at a higher pace. but I'm sure I'll get plenty of hectic high paced fights at higher levels so I'm not fussed about it.
Kyskei
1
Re: What surprised you in the FireBrand fight?
My surprise was there’s a young dragon who has an egg that’s been trapped for 1000 years. How exactly old is a young dragon???
As for expecting more from the Citadel, they did state at the beginning that it was the end of the event.
As for expecting more from the Citadel, they did state at the beginning that it was the end of the event.
Re: What surprised you in the FireBrand fight?
Nothing surprised me. It was a basic, classic dragon. The only thing that could have potential is the "he hits the bigger gatherings of people more often", but imo even that is a super basic mechanic that should be in every damn game.
NiKr
1
Re: What surprised you in the FireBrand fight?
For me: i was surprised that clerics can spam revives. Like WTF... Steven spent more time resurrecting players than healing. This was real BS.
Resurrect should have like 30 min cd, maybe some talent can make it have 2 charges.
Or it should have no cd but cost 70% of max mana.
If you want more resurrects - put resurrect on Bards. But like in 40 man party you should have like max 10 revives. In this fight we saw like 50 resurrects.
Else the dragon fight was good.
From the citadel i was expecting more. Like the Ancient in the end should be some kind of boss fight.
There should be traps that the fire elements put in the citadel where they can for example reduce healing, stun, or stuff like this.
Maybe put a fire wave moving from the entrance forward that forces everyone to move forward, Getting in touch with the fire wave is instant kill.
Steven had god mode on so he didnt die and had infinite everything so people could view the content + so they didnt wipe.
Mag7spy
1
Re: What surprised you in the FireBrand fight?
For me the Dragon waiting patently for a bunch of humans to attack it first, rather then aggressivly attacking anyone in the area would certainly surprize me if a real dragon behaved like that. I kind of expect a dragon to be atleast as much of a jerk as the average open world pvper.
So im guessing all mobs need to be attacking everything on sight sense it knows its going to be attacked. So technically if you go into a camp the entire camp should zerg people?
Sometimes i here these kinds of suggestions and they don't seem akin to a mmorpg.
Even in dragons dogma dragons don't attack you instantly just being in sight in far distance.
Mag7spy
1
Re: What surprised you in the FireBrand fight?
Everything done from the dragon was expected, when i think of a dragon its hard to be really surprised since people know what to expect from them. Its good they have the dragon seeming to use some magic which make me think dragons dogma
It doesn't mean its bad of course even more so if you are looking at the level of that kind of boss fight.
When i think Elden ring bayle doesn't do anything special and just does dragon stuff but its very epic feeling to me atleast. But at the same time i don't expect a young dragon to be bringing super epic end game raid boss vibes. Their dragon looked amazing but do to the terming with it being a young dragon i expect other color variants and such and not fully akin to a unique dragon.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1v_Qp8Xn0m8
*edit of course there are tons of cool things you could add to the fight, but I feel atm we are mainly going to be seeing introduction level bosses (that will have more heavy on the side of gear check difficulty) then more complex mechanics.
Imo there should prob be a few more stronger attacks that it doesn't use very often which will lean towards being able to wipe out zergs (if it uses it more often). And having player bodies making it more difficult to get around and dodge the attack.
It doesn't mean its bad of course even more so if you are looking at the level of that kind of boss fight.
When i think Elden ring bayle doesn't do anything special and just does dragon stuff but its very epic feeling to me atleast. But at the same time i don't expect a young dragon to be bringing super epic end game raid boss vibes. Their dragon looked amazing but do to the terming with it being a young dragon i expect other color variants and such and not fully akin to a unique dragon.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1v_Qp8Xn0m8
*edit of course there are tons of cool things you could add to the fight, but I feel atm we are mainly going to be seeing introduction level bosses (that will have more heavy on the side of gear check difficulty) then more complex mechanics.
Imo there should prob be a few more stronger attacks that it doesn't use very often which will lean towards being able to wipe out zergs (if it uses it more often). And having player bodies making it more difficult to get around and dodge the attack.
Mag7spy
1