Glorious Alpha Two Testers!
Alpha Two Phase III testing has begun! During this phase, our realms will be open every day, and we'll only have downtime for updates and maintenance. We'll keep everyone up-to-date about downtimes in Discord.
If you have Alpha Two, you can download the game launcher here, and we encourage you to join us on our Official Discord Server for the most up to date testing news.
Alpha Two Phase III testing has begun! During this phase, our realms will be open every day, and we'll only have downtime for updates and maintenance. We'll keep everyone up-to-date about downtimes in Discord.
If you have Alpha Two, you can download the game launcher here, and we encourage you to join us on our Official Discord Server for the most up to date testing news.
Best Of
Re: More Lawless Areas? or Just Flag/War/Red PK ?
STOP WITH THE FUCKING LAWLESS ZONES FFS. The fucking open sea change will become the biggest damn mistake of a design shift in AoC's history, I think. Because it has drawn all the "I want to kill everyone all the time" crowd into the game.
I played L2, that had a very similar flagging system to Ashes. I also played on servers that had "lawless zones", because private server admins thought it could be a cool addition. You know what would happen on literally every damn server? Those zones would be constantly overtaken by the strongest sweatiest players. And locked down, so that these players become even stronger.
And all of that happened in a game where death only came with negative xp penalty, which was even smaller in the lawless zones. ASHES HAS FUCKING LOOT ON DEATH. And yall want to add these zones to the most profitable locations, on top of that. It's asinine to believe that the game will have anywhere near a healthy population, with that kind design. Even those L2 servers barely survived, because even the super filtered hardcore population of L2 (who are waaaaaay more willing to suffer through endless pvp than majority of future Ashes players) still couldn't put up with that kind of design for too long.
Ashes is already built on the principle of "strong are strong and weak are weak". Yet people just keeeeep pushing it everfuther into the "endless snowball" area, where the strong will simply be gods, while the weak will simply leave. Like, the P2 situation with legendary mats was the greatest indication of exactly that. Sweaty hardcore players found the best way of becoming super strong. They then monopolized the fuck out of that way. Became literaly one-shot gods and the rest of the players left.
Lawless zones will accomplish the exact damn thing. So stop with this bullshit and just ask for proper corruption balancing and much better war design. Though either of those things should came later on in the alpha BECAUSE WE DON'T HAVE THE BASIC STUFF STILL. Where's the dynamic gridding that would help with assessing your pvp situation? Where's node growth that's meant to layer mob lvls, instead of having a fucking thmepark layout of pve strength? Where's summoner and the npc AI required for it? Where's proper crafting cycles w/o full fucking items in the mob loot lists? Where's proper loot list distribution and gear type design that allow people to NOT farm the exact same spot for all of their needs?
Once we get AT LEAST all of that basic shit in the game - then we can start talking about what kind of pvp gameplay loops we gotta have around it. And supposedly we'll be getting it before/at, now delayed, P3 - so just, please, shut the hell up about the god damn lawless zones and wait a bit more.
K, thx, bye
I played L2, that had a very similar flagging system to Ashes. I also played on servers that had "lawless zones", because private server admins thought it could be a cool addition. You know what would happen on literally every damn server? Those zones would be constantly overtaken by the strongest sweatiest players. And locked down, so that these players become even stronger.
And all of that happened in a game where death only came with negative xp penalty, which was even smaller in the lawless zones. ASHES HAS FUCKING LOOT ON DEATH. And yall want to add these zones to the most profitable locations, on top of that. It's asinine to believe that the game will have anywhere near a healthy population, with that kind design. Even those L2 servers barely survived, because even the super filtered hardcore population of L2 (who are waaaaaay more willing to suffer through endless pvp than majority of future Ashes players) still couldn't put up with that kind of design for too long.
Ashes is already built on the principle of "strong are strong and weak are weak". Yet people just keeeeep pushing it everfuther into the "endless snowball" area, where the strong will simply be gods, while the weak will simply leave. Like, the P2 situation with legendary mats was the greatest indication of exactly that. Sweaty hardcore players found the best way of becoming super strong. They then monopolized the fuck out of that way. Became literaly one-shot gods and the rest of the players left.
Lawless zones will accomplish the exact damn thing. So stop with this bullshit and just ask for proper corruption balancing and much better war design. Though either of those things should came later on in the alpha BECAUSE WE DON'T HAVE THE BASIC STUFF STILL. Where's the dynamic gridding that would help with assessing your pvp situation? Where's node growth that's meant to layer mob lvls, instead of having a fucking thmepark layout of pve strength? Where's summoner and the npc AI required for it? Where's proper crafting cycles w/o full fucking items in the mob loot lists? Where's proper loot list distribution and gear type design that allow people to NOT farm the exact same spot for all of their needs?
Once we get AT LEAST all of that basic shit in the game - then we can start talking about what kind of pvp gameplay loops we gotta have around it. And supposedly we'll be getting it before/at, now delayed, P3 - so just, please, shut the hell up about the god damn lawless zones and wait a bit more.
K, thx, bye
Ludullu
2
Re: Jumping
No, jumping is fine
Your post is pointless.
If you want to bring some value to the topic, you should explain why jumping is good as it is now. Otherwise, it's just a mindless opinion... Someone might say it's okay, someone might say it's not okay.
excmatt
1
Jumping
Could you consider tying jumping in AoC to stamina, or otherwise find a way to prevent players from jumping constantly and allow it only when necessary? It doesn't look good when characters are jumping all the time like rabbits or monkeys. I can't even imagine what it will be like when there are 100+ people on screen and everyone is jumping… I don't think it should turn into a jumping simulator. what do you think ?
excmatt
3
Re: Constant / Excessive Jumping, and Mitigation
idk whats up with people trying to force others playing the way they think looks cool... just let people jump as much as they want ffs
You might as well bring the stuffertons in, neon bright pink dyes for armors and weapons, modern cosmetics. Let ppl do whatever they want.
Re: The Problem With Ashes of Creation Biomes and More
NW comes out. People yell from the rooftops about how cool it is that every tree is choppable. They yell at Intrepid after A1 only had certain trees choppable. Intrepid make a change in their design and now we can cut down all trees.
Now you can't really have "huge trees that create massive canopies", because cutting them down would directly influence the canopy and would also be a massive hit to the performance, because now instead of a static model (like a passive rock) it's gotta be an interactable thing with falling physics.
Desert nodes don't have any uniqueness to them and no proper integration into their surroundings, because neither of those things have been developed proper yet and they're just in their basic functional states.
There's not enough grass because optimization.
There's not enough unique looks to the POIs because we only have 3 node lvls, no proper weather-based progression and no story arcs (which are now called "M O D U L E S" btw) - all of which are meant to add some visual progression to the entire POI (see Story Arcs showcase around Carphin).
From what I've seen in some videos, Tropics have some kinds of underground caverns that are either icy or full of crystal structures. If that is not both "unique different tropics" and "high phantasy" (i.e. ice in the tropics) - I dunno what is.
Mob variety comes with future development and potentially both node progress and modules.
So now I come back to the gif at the start of this comment. This is still an Alpha. Yes, we're all tired of it being one. Yes, plans were for it to not be one by this point. Yes, delays. Yes, we still got years to go. Yes, it's all bad. No, there's nothing WE can do but wait. Yes, that waiting can come in the form of taking a break from closely following the development and just chilling in some other game (god knows there's fucking thousands of them).
Yes, I know this answer is pointless, overused and annoying. No, there's no better answer for this type of OP, unless you're willing to call devs hacks and scammers (which you, OP, are obviously not).
Ludullu
3
More Lawless Areas? or Just Flag/War/Red PK ?
Lawless Areas vs. Red PK
I know lawless is suppose to be limited to mainly the ocean, but is that what we want? Thoughts?
I’ve been thinking about the Lawless zone system versus the Red PK (flagging) system and wanted to throw some thoughts out there. I really believe there’s a place for both, and that each system brings different value to the game depending on how it’s implemented.
Why Lawless Areas Can Be a Good Thing:
They Give a Reason to Fight Over Spots
Lawless zones could (and should) include top-tier XP and or semi Top-tier loot spots. It adds value to the area and rewards PvP groups who can hold it. This also spreads out the leveling population — groups that don’t want to deal with PvP can choose safe, decent areas, while others can risk it for higher rewards.
Not Everyone Wants Ocean-Only PvP
The ocean content is solid and has a lot of potential, but land-based lawless zones would break up the monotony and offer more variety in PvP encounters — not just sea fights or scheduled wars and people with balls enough to attack back when you flag on them. Maybe even make some POIs/ Side Dungeons Lawless areas?
Spreads PvP Across the Map
Quick PvP Without Guild Politics (or YOLO Going Red)
Sometimes I just want to jump into a fight without declaring war or going red and risking my gear dropping on death. Lawless zones allow for quick action without dragging in your whole guild or committing to the full Red PK path.
The Downside of Lawless Zones:
Zerg Guilds and Gatekeeping
The biggest issue I see is zone-locking. A strong guild can roll in with a full raid group++ and hold down a zone indefinitely, denying content to smaller groups. This kills variety and creates PvP choke points that are more about numbers than skill.
(Current Red system allows zergs to do this too, so…?)
Red PK System – What It Tries to Solve:
The PK system is supposed to add consequences to random killing — it discourages griefing by making you think twice before going red. That’s a good thing in theory, especially for casual players or smaller groups.
But right now it’s not quite there:
Zergs go red without caring about the penalties.
XP debt doesn’t do anything yet.
It’s clunky if you’re just trying to contest a spot or pick a fight with someone out in the world.
I think we need both, and here’s why:
Lawless zones offer an open, risk-based PvP space where rare drops and top XP can be contested without worrying about gear dropping on death. These areas can be high-value, high-conflict zones that create good content organically.
The PK system should exist for personal grudges, high-stakes ganks, or flex PvP — but not be the only option to engage in open-world combat/contest spawns/mats
Ideas for Balance:
Keep a few lawless areas — especially in the ocean or at key choke points between nodes, and maybe certain POIs/side dungeons?
Consider scaling spawn value or adding diminishing returns for zerging lawless areas. Or something. (Death to zergs.)
Tune the PK system so going red is a real choice, not just a mild inconvenience.
Give high-value item drops (like Protector’s Pride or similar) a natural home in lawless zones — make them worth fighting for without needing a war declaration or flagging up red.
TL;DR
If the PK system were truly balanced and meaningful, maybe lawless zones wouldn’t be necessary — but right now, they add fun, risk, and variety to open-world PvP. We just need systems in place to avoid zone-locking and make sure smaller groups still have a shot.
Not being able to contest spawns like Protector’s Pride other then (do more dmg forehead) is very annoying when I know I can wipe the floor with the people "contesting", they are just multi-boxing and many of them XD . This is just an example of a high value item/mount that is not really contestable without going Red and risking gear dropping on death because it is not located within a lawless zone.... I would rather fight a group of 40 for a spawn then not be able to fight a multiboxing camper, at least the 40 players are killable and If I bring my own raid we can then fight over the spawn point without much risk but greater reward?
Currently flagging up on someone and hitting them, hoping they will attack back just isn't it either.
Would love to hear others’ thoughts — do you think lawless zones help or hurt the game overall?
Incase you have not read - https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Lawless_zones
I know lawless is suppose to be limited to mainly the ocean, but is that what we want? Thoughts?
I’ve been thinking about the Lawless zone system versus the Red PK (flagging) system and wanted to throw some thoughts out there. I really believe there’s a place for both, and that each system brings different value to the game depending on how it’s implemented.
Why Lawless Areas Can Be a Good Thing:
They Give a Reason to Fight Over Spots
Lawless zones could (and should) include top-tier XP and or semi Top-tier loot spots. It adds value to the area and rewards PvP groups who can hold it. This also spreads out the leveling population — groups that don’t want to deal with PvP can choose safe, decent areas, while others can risk it for higher rewards.
Not Everyone Wants Ocean-Only PvP
The ocean content is solid and has a lot of potential, but land-based lawless zones would break up the monotony and offer more variety in PvP encounters — not just sea fights or scheduled wars and people with balls enough to attack back when you flag on them. Maybe even make some POIs/ Side Dungeons Lawless areas?
Spreads PvP Across the Map
Quick PvP Without Guild Politics (or YOLO Going Red)
Sometimes I just want to jump into a fight without declaring war or going red and risking my gear dropping on death. Lawless zones allow for quick action without dragging in your whole guild or committing to the full Red PK path.
The Downside of Lawless Zones:
Zerg Guilds and Gatekeeping
The biggest issue I see is zone-locking. A strong guild can roll in with a full raid group++ and hold down a zone indefinitely, denying content to smaller groups. This kills variety and creates PvP choke points that are more about numbers than skill.
(Current Red system allows zergs to do this too, so…?)
Red PK System – What It Tries to Solve:
The PK system is supposed to add consequences to random killing — it discourages griefing by making you think twice before going red. That’s a good thing in theory, especially for casual players or smaller groups.
But right now it’s not quite there:
Zergs go red without caring about the penalties.
XP debt doesn’t do anything yet.
It’s clunky if you’re just trying to contest a spot or pick a fight with someone out in the world.
I think we need both, and here’s why:
Lawless zones offer an open, risk-based PvP space where rare drops and top XP can be contested without worrying about gear dropping on death. These areas can be high-value, high-conflict zones that create good content organically.
The PK system should exist for personal grudges, high-stakes ganks, or flex PvP — but not be the only option to engage in open-world combat/contest spawns/mats
Ideas for Balance:
Keep a few lawless areas — especially in the ocean or at key choke points between nodes, and maybe certain POIs/side dungeons?
Consider scaling spawn value or adding diminishing returns for zerging lawless areas. Or something. (Death to zergs.)
Tune the PK system so going red is a real choice, not just a mild inconvenience.
Give high-value item drops (like Protector’s Pride or similar) a natural home in lawless zones — make them worth fighting for without needing a war declaration or flagging up red.
TL;DR
If the PK system were truly balanced and meaningful, maybe lawless zones wouldn’t be necessary — but right now, they add fun, risk, and variety to open-world PvP. We just need systems in place to avoid zone-locking and make sure smaller groups still have a shot.
Not being able to contest spawns like Protector’s Pride other then (do more dmg forehead) is very annoying when I know I can wipe the floor with the people "contesting", they are just multi-boxing and many of them XD . This is just an example of a high value item/mount that is not really contestable without going Red and risking gear dropping on death because it is not located within a lawless zone.... I would rather fight a group of 40 for a spawn then not be able to fight a multiboxing camper, at least the 40 players are killable and If I bring my own raid we can then fight over the spawn point without much risk but greater reward?
Currently flagging up on someone and hitting them, hoping they will attack back just isn't it either.
Would love to hear others’ thoughts — do you think lawless zones help or hurt the game overall?
Incase you have not read - https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Lawless_zones
zbitango
2
Re: Constant / Excessive Jumping, and Mitigation
What's up with people failing to grasp that to some, needless jumping around looks dumb, and they'd rather have this dumbness limited? We have a beautiful game world, beautifully looking characters, but if the character controls like mario then that's probably not great?idk whats up with people trying to force others playing the way they think looks cool... just let people jump as much as they want ffs
Who cares if you think it looks dumb?
If other people are having fun doing it, you have no say in the matter.
A great looking world is great - but the world only exists for people to have fun in. If people have fun jumping around, then not allowing that fun to happen is a waste of that great game world.
If seeing that is ruining your fun (and wow would that say a lot about you), then what you want to do is find a game that is aiming for realism. As a hint - anything with a fantasy setting probably isn't aiming for realism.
You can't look at this only from one side. Someone who enjoys jumping will support jumping. Someone who doesn’t like it will be against it. The answer should lie somewhere in the middle.
No one wants jumping to be removed completely, and no one wants to stop those who enjoy it from doing it. But if someone is visually bothered by it, you can’t force them to be okay with it and just accept it either.
It’s like if I, as a PvP player, said that I would prefer the penalty for PK (player killing) to be significantly lower or even non-existent. However, many people would complain that they only want PvE, not PvP.
The system was designed in a way to satisfy both sides to a certain degree. So jumping should work in a similar way — if you want to jump just for fun, you should be able to… but for example, jumping could slow down your movement speed.
That way, if you wanted to be efficient, you wouldn’t jump. This would limit jumping significantly without banning it completely for those who simply enjoy doing it for fun.
excmatt
1
Intrepid... Devs.. Steven... Corruption needs to be addressed...
Please, dont make the heart of your community that will be on the Fresh Start and P3, which are the multiple Guilds suffer the PAIN of having to deal mob training as the most effective way of fighting over grind spots during our leveling rush....
Its terrible game design right now dropping 1-3 pieces of GEAR with the first corruption stack its just game breaking for people, and no one with a brain ever goes corrupt - the only times that your logs are recording people being corrupt and dropping gear is either by accident or in many cases due to BUGS that unintentionally flags people, and gets them corrupted making us lose hundreds of hours of progress over a bug...... whyyyyyy
this is just game breaking for your most dedicated testers... and the experience of doing World Bosses when they are not PvP zones and people are talking shit in chat while you can not do nothing about it its also extremely toxic
and I know what people might argue that this gives smaller/casual guilds a chance of doing the content but no, casual guilds do not have a chance of taking world bosses regardless if its a PvP zone or not, because its a DPS dispute and the most geared out guilds will still take them 99% of the time as P1 and P2 showed, so at the end of the day its mainly a PVE-only content for the top guilds that they can not even fight it out, we just try to out-dps each other its very boring...
what happened to the stories of hour-long bosses with guilds fighting each other to contest that steven used to talk about? man that would be AMAZING content....
Open world PvP over grind spots during leveling are also non-existing its mainly just a dispute of who has more patience to out-grief eachother pulling mobs and disrupting until someone gives up.... the meta is learning the best ways to train mobs and hoping the other group gets tired and leaves....
Please Intrepid, developers, Steven, we love the project, and we want to continue putting in thousands of hours to help you build the best game possible, but pls make it more enjoyable for us, consider a very BASIC change for the fresh start and P3 and tune down corruption, get world bosses to be PvP Zones and let your community have the fun PvX experience we are hoping for without all the frustrations mentioned above
@StevenSharif @Roshen
Its terrible game design right now dropping 1-3 pieces of GEAR with the first corruption stack its just game breaking for people, and no one with a brain ever goes corrupt - the only times that your logs are recording people being corrupt and dropping gear is either by accident or in many cases due to BUGS that unintentionally flags people, and gets them corrupted making us lose hundreds of hours of progress over a bug...... whyyyyyy
this is just game breaking for your most dedicated testers... and the experience of doing World Bosses when they are not PvP zones and people are talking shit in chat while you can not do nothing about it its also extremely toxic
and I know what people might argue that this gives smaller/casual guilds a chance of doing the content but no, casual guilds do not have a chance of taking world bosses regardless if its a PvP zone or not, because its a DPS dispute and the most geared out guilds will still take them 99% of the time as P1 and P2 showed, so at the end of the day its mainly a PVE-only content for the top guilds that they can not even fight it out, we just try to out-dps each other its very boring...
what happened to the stories of hour-long bosses with guilds fighting each other to contest that steven used to talk about? man that would be AMAZING content....
Open world PvP over grind spots during leveling are also non-existing its mainly just a dispute of who has more patience to out-grief eachother pulling mobs and disrupting until someone gives up.... the meta is learning the best ways to train mobs and hoping the other group gets tired and leaves....
Please Intrepid, developers, Steven, we love the project, and we want to continue putting in thousands of hours to help you build the best game possible, but pls make it more enjoyable for us, consider a very BASIC change for the fresh start and P3 and tune down corruption, get world bosses to be PvP Zones and let your community have the fun PvX experience we are hoping for without all the frustrations mentioned above
@StevenSharif @Roshen
Liniker
4
Re: More Lawless Areas? or Just Flag/War/Red PK ?
PvE players constantly trying to change any game that designed for or with PvP in mind in basicly every game that comes along, god forbid a game isnt designed as them as the target audience.
PvP players constantly trying to change any game that designed for or with PvE in mind in basicly every game that comes along, god forbid a game isnt designed as them as the target audience.
Works both ways.
Ashes at its core is supposed to be as much about PvE as PvP. PvP is supposed to be a catalyst for change, but building is all about PvE.
There should be more to build than there is to change, as everything changed needs to first be built - thus Ashes should be PvE first, if we have to assume one comes before the other (I don't, I assume they are of equal importance, just pointing out that if Ashes is primarily one, it has to be the one that builds, not the one that changes).
The current state of the game is due to PvP players/posters whining, not PvE players/posters.
The notion in the OP - lawless areas with better rewards all around - will just result in those lawless areas being all about bringing as many people you can and demolishing said lawless areas. That is what any game like Ashes with that content will become.
Realistically, all that needs to be done is the threshold for dropping gear when killed while corrupt needs to be raised a small amount. If players know they can kill one or two players before they risk losing gear, those precious PvP players that don't want that risk should still be able to PvP.
Personally, I think they should stop being so precious, but that is just me. PvP players are such whiners.
Noaani
2
Re: More Lawless Areas? or Just Flag/War/Red PK ?
I'm truly saddened by the fact that as time goes on, I expect we're going to see more and more push for Ashes to be more like this.
"I hate being right."
Every single datapoint I have from every single game that tries to appeal with features that aren't focused on PvP and then provides more 'Lawless Area' style gameplay is that everything goes to shit within 3... MAYBE 4 months.
Except Throne and Liberty, ofc, where you can watch the outcomes of their mistakes within a week or two since the playerbase is large enough to actually see the trends quickly.
So I'll offer the data from that one.
Adding a Lawless Area with a time limit, that was absolutely optional to go to even economically in most ways, plus an item that you could buy to recharge your time (started at 6h weekly) resulted in large guild/group domination of areas.
To put that in perspective, PvP players with 'too much time' literally spent economic progress (which they genuinely didn't make that much of after a while since the price of most easy drops from that zone tanked, as they also would in an Ashes-style economy, even faster) to just keep PvP-ing.
Whether their intent was to lock down the zones or not is not relevant. The explicit aim of giving the time limit was to do a sort of 'soft matchmaking'. Eventually the dominant groups would run out of time and leave, particularly if they were all 'having fun fighting each other' they would be more likely to leave at similar times. This did not happen. I feel that most L2 players could have told them this would not happen. They have since removed the ability to 'Buy more time', which adds a nice soft downward pressure on the problem, but the perceptive outcome lingers (less PvP-casuals willing to engage with the content).
Lawless zones in Ashes are exactly the equivalent of this, but with no real cost, and automatic economic progression that isn't subject to the drag that TL has built into it. I am 100% against the colossal design mistake of 'adding a rewarding Lawless area that is always accessible/always Lawless' in Ashes of Creation.
"I hate being right."
Every single datapoint I have from every single game that tries to appeal with features that aren't focused on PvP and then provides more 'Lawless Area' style gameplay is that everything goes to shit within 3... MAYBE 4 months.
Except Throne and Liberty, ofc, where you can watch the outcomes of their mistakes within a week or two since the playerbase is large enough to actually see the trends quickly.
So I'll offer the data from that one.
Adding a Lawless Area with a time limit, that was absolutely optional to go to even economically in most ways, plus an item that you could buy to recharge your time (started at 6h weekly) resulted in large guild/group domination of areas.
To put that in perspective, PvP players with 'too much time' literally spent economic progress (which they genuinely didn't make that much of after a while since the price of most easy drops from that zone tanked, as they also would in an Ashes-style economy, even faster) to just keep PvP-ing.
Whether their intent was to lock down the zones or not is not relevant. The explicit aim of giving the time limit was to do a sort of 'soft matchmaking'. Eventually the dominant groups would run out of time and leave, particularly if they were all 'having fun fighting each other' they would be more likely to leave at similar times. This did not happen. I feel that most L2 players could have told them this would not happen. They have since removed the ability to 'Buy more time', which adds a nice soft downward pressure on the problem, but the perceptive outcome lingers (less PvP-casuals willing to engage with the content).
Lawless zones in Ashes are exactly the equivalent of this, but with no real cost, and automatic economic progression that isn't subject to the drag that TL has built into it. I am 100% against the colossal design mistake of 'adding a rewarding Lawless area that is always accessible/always Lawless' in Ashes of Creation.
Azherae
2