Greetings, glorious adventurers! If you're joining in our Alpha One spot testing, please follow the steps here to see all the latest test info on our forums and Discord!
Best Of
Re: My PvX != Your PvX
Yeah... it's fun to examine different perspectives.
Especially when trying to figure out "Who in the world would enjoy that?"
Or "How can you not enjoy that?"
PvPers, for some reason, always seem to think that PvEers are seeking help or protection from PvP.
"Oh! I'm just not good at PvP, so if I ask good PvPers to protect me from gankers, I could have tons of fun in this game."
I don't need protection from PvP combat. When I'm in the mood for PvP combat, I don't really care about who wins or who loses.
It's just another activity.
It's a higher challenge activity than I typically prefer because I'm a casual-challenge player and I find mobs to be more predictable and easier to work around than gamers.
I'm OK with that higher challenge activity for about 1-hour out of an 8-hour play session.
And then I need to be able to go back to casual-challenge activities, like peacefully exploring the map and picking flowers for the remaining 7 hours of my game session - without some random gamer deciding for me that I have to jump back into PvP just because they love PvP.
If other gamers are going to be "protecting" me from PvP, I might as well just join in. I'm either in the mood for PvP or I'm not. And, if I'm not, I don't want my friends and other allies around me to be in PvP combat either. I want us to be doing other stuff that is not PvP combat for those 7 hours.
This is like saying to me - hey, if you don't like nuts in your chocolate chip cookies, NiKr will bite all of the nuts out of the cookies for you and then you can eat the remnants.
Like, no thank you. I will just find some chocolate chip cookies that don't have nuts baked in. It's OK.
PvP Sieges were fun in Alpha One. Because I was able to choose when to participate and when not to rather than some other gamer making that decision for me. Same would be true for Caravans.
I don't need bodyguards - I just prefer to play MMORPGs where I have full control over when I participate in PvP and when I don't, rather than that being decided by some other gamer.
I would have similar issues if another gamer could force me to pick flowers when I'm not in the mood to pick flowers. Or someone could force me to Craft Weapons when I'm not in the mood to Craft Weapons.
Especially when trying to figure out "Who in the world would enjoy that?"
Or "How can you not enjoy that?"
PvPers, for some reason, always seem to think that PvEers are seeking help or protection from PvP.
"Oh! I'm just not good at PvP, so if I ask good PvPers to protect me from gankers, I could have tons of fun in this game."
I don't need protection from PvP combat. When I'm in the mood for PvP combat, I don't really care about who wins or who loses.
It's just another activity.
It's a higher challenge activity than I typically prefer because I'm a casual-challenge player and I find mobs to be more predictable and easier to work around than gamers.
I'm OK with that higher challenge activity for about 1-hour out of an 8-hour play session.
And then I need to be able to go back to casual-challenge activities, like peacefully exploring the map and picking flowers for the remaining 7 hours of my game session - without some random gamer deciding for me that I have to jump back into PvP just because they love PvP.
If other gamers are going to be "protecting" me from PvP, I might as well just join in. I'm either in the mood for PvP or I'm not. And, if I'm not, I don't want my friends and other allies around me to be in PvP combat either. I want us to be doing other stuff that is not PvP combat for those 7 hours.
This is like saying to me - hey, if you don't like nuts in your chocolate chip cookies, NiKr will bite all of the nuts out of the cookies for you and then you can eat the remnants.
Like, no thank you. I will just find some chocolate chip cookies that don't have nuts baked in. It's OK.
PvP Sieges were fun in Alpha One. Because I was able to choose when to participate and when not to rather than some other gamer making that decision for me. Same would be true for Caravans.
I don't need bodyguards - I just prefer to play MMORPGs where I have full control over when I participate in PvP and when I don't, rather than that being decided by some other gamer.
I would have similar issues if another gamer could force me to pick flowers when I'm not in the mood to pick flowers. Or someone could force me to Craft Weapons when I'm not in the mood to Craft Weapons.
Dygz
1
Re: My PvX != Your PvX
Don't worry, Dygz. " I " am not done with You even if Others choose to ignore You. Sometimes our Arguments are just to interesting - as i am always curious about other Points of View and You personally always deliver nicely and give me some good Information any some time.
Sometimes i am not sure however if You are just plain unsatisfied with the Nature of the Game or not. Lets say our Conversations never get old, which is kind of nice.
Does it sound weird when i say - > i bet not even the MOST PvE-loving kind of Player, who i will see in the World of Verra, will ever be done and start loathing the Game when sometimes PvP happens to him/her ?
Might be just me - but i think People will rather easily accept the State of Being in Verra. Also i can for the Life of mine not imagine that Nobody will ever think of asking People for Aid and Help as PvP-styled Bodyguards whenever they want to for Example farm something in the Wilderness.
Aszkalon
1
Re: My PvX != Your PvX
I wouldn't phrase it as worse - it's a more significant and impactful change for my playstyle. Yes.Open seas change was a fairly controversial one. And with Dygz being quite far on the anti-forced-pvp scale (pretty much at the extreme end of it tbh) - to him that change was even worse than for others.
I mostly agree with being on the extreme end of anti-forced-pvp.
But, I'd say the actual extreme end would not be OK with the Corruption concept at all.
Ha! Well, the first thing I do with each alt is explore as much of the map as possible.We also don't know how hard it'll be to cross the seas w/o dying. And with Dygz also being an avid RPer, I'd imagine he'd prefer to explore on his main character, rather than make 2 dudes on 2 continents (and this doesn't even count the island exploration).
So, I would likely have more than two alts on two continents. And they would all need to be able to traverse the entire map with no permanent zones that auto-flag for Corruption-free PvP.
If I were going to truly play and pursue progression paths.
Yeah. I'm not really motivated at all by Risk v Reward, like Steven is.And there's also the super vague and nebulous reason for seas being pvp of "the content is worth the risk", so in theory an explorer would want to see that kind of content for themselves. And with the entire seas being pvp - ya can't really do that, especially considering the potential costs of water mounts/ships.
And as such, when you look at the game overall (because you're interested in exploring all of it) - the game has turned into a murderbox. And you say it yourself, the seas could theoretically draw a lot of the pvpers unto themselves, which would then make those seas even more of an "instakilled" location.
I do enjoy objective-based PvP, like Sieges and Caravans - which I equate with Meaningful Conflict due to the Kickstarter video.
Murderbox is really Steven's term, but when I try to apply that term to MMORPGs... I first think of:
ShadowBane, then the naval battles in ArcheAge and then the PvP-intense zones of EvE (Null Sec?).
The moment I understand that the gameplay will be similar to the naval battles of ArcheAge, I know I'm not in the target audience.
In the EQNext Forums 10 years ago, we were trying to figure out how the devs were planning to get all the players who typically play EQ on PvE servers to be OK with playing on the server as gamers who play EQ on PvP servers. The devs never gave us a hint of what their actual plans were for that.
The quickest way to get PvPers temporary bans would be for the PvEers to offer a suggestion for a viable compromise (PvEers should be able to travel The Open Seas with a PvE-Only flag).
The PvPers would be all, "WTF?? No efffing way would we ever accept that shit!! That's not a effing compromise."
The quickest way to get PvEers temporary bans would be for the PvPers to offer a suggestion for a viable compromise (PvEers should just not travel to The Open Seas if they don't want to PvP. There's no reson to be in a PvP area if you don't want to PvP. Just being there is auto-consent.).
The PvEers would be all, "WTF?? No efffing way would we ever accept that shit!! That's not a effing compromise!"
I'm not butt hurt about the change because it makes total sense to me that a gamer with Steven's playstyle would consider that to be a resonable addition to a "PvX".
It was just kinda surprising to be on board for 5 years and then suddenly realize I'm actually not in the target audience.
In the meantime, plenty of other MMORPGs that are less PvP-centric than I consider Ashes to now be have now popped onto the horizon. Especially looking forward to Ghost right now.
And then, it's really cool that PvP fans have an MMORPG, like Ashes, with even more PvP than originally designed, rather than typical decimation to PvP that as happening over the last few years - like with New World.
Ha! Speaking of surprising realizations...
All through college, I considered myself to be GenX. I think right around 2000 is when I learned that I'm actually the final year of Boomer. My friend who hates chocolate is 6 months older. She still refuses to accept that we are Boomers and not GenX.
Dygz
1
Re: Average mob TTK
Time to kill is extremely important imo. The time to kill during the commission showcase seemed great to me for a solo. I also loved that manna maintenance was an issue. I love when each generic mob has to be respected and perceived as a threat similar to how the mob killed Steven with its whirlwind. Nothing needs to be Elden ring difficulty but a ttk a little too high is better than one too low. If you want players to group up like MMOs should encourage, you need high difficulty or at minimum high ttk. Content or adventuring that mayyybe the player could do solo , but the mob is difficult enough or has high enough ttk that it will be tedious without a companion.
Re: What is the PURPOSE of a 'trash mob', to you?
Responding directly to the OP here:
Where I've seen some helpful trash mobs is leading up to some boss fights. I've always liked when these creatures replicate boss abilities or mechanics, or a simplified version of them. I've found that it helps build muscle memory for when it's time to interact with that boss. Sometimes that's the only way my guildies will bother learning the mechanics 🙃
Does anybody else see these mechanics, or find them helpful in MMOs and/or RPGs that you enjoy?
Honestly no, usually the mobs themselves seem more like place holders for the most part. Eve is the only one I can think of that had common mobs that use mechanics resembling what players, and more difficult mobs, would toss at you.
If you guys were to implement smaller versions of boss mechanics, and really lean into it for the common stuff, it would be fantastic.
I'm sure other games may have tried something similar in the past but the mobs themselves were usually not impactful enough to be noticeable.
Diamaht
1
Re: a curious thought i had about demons/ a demonic augment
also i will say that i do hope they release more racial skins for demons but just not the kickstarter backer ones not even cause i dislike them but because i stand by stevens 'people having shit you cant get anymore and just had to be there for' mentality ESPECIALLY for an mmo because it gives people reason to want to look for new shit in the game each and every day so they can find the cool shit and get the stuff that you just have to be there for
Animikii
1
Re: a curious thought i had about demons/ a demonic augment
daveywavey wrote: »Well, there are demons, of sorts. I just dunno if they're the kind you're thinking of:
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Demons
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Demon_skin
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Demonic_Offering_Aegis
both a yes and no with like this is what i was thinking on the demon front but than on the player side, i was think more like these sorta monsters possessing people and either granting them powers or ya know, the whole dragon style 'never let the bard near it' type thing if ya know what i mean......
Animikii
1
Re: [EU] Nephilim [PVX] [18+] [Semi Hardcore] [Competitive] [Close Knit Community]
Been here for almost 2 years now, joining is still one of the best decisions I have made
Re: My PvX != Your PvX
It's not about what my hopes were, though. I didn't hope for anything... I asked Steven to describe the Ashes PvP system so I could ascertain if it's an MMORPG with PvP that I would enjoy playing or if it's too PvP-centric for me. Steven answered one way in 2018 that I accepted. And then added a feature which contradicts that answer in 2022.Chill everyone can have their hopes on what they thought the game might be. And be disappointed when it turns it that isn't the case.
I agree it was pretty clear if we go off assumptions on what you would generally expect. Though since it is in development its harder for people to have as clear of a vision what the game will be like with less information out there. It leaves more to ones imagination to fill in the blanks. Though as more of the game is developed it paints a much more clear picture without as much guess work.
I didn't leave anything to my imagination and there was not "less information".
I asked Steven directly. He answered. And then added a significant change to the design in 2022 that pushed me out of the target audience.
I'm not at all disappointed by that.
I think it's a great addition for PvPers. It's just a ruleset that I don't like to play.
But, I didn't leave anything to guess work. I asked Steven specific questions.
And the answer to a key question changed significantly in 2022.
Everything is subject to change.
When i mean guess work knowing that AoC has pvp in it, it is fair to think like most games with pvp there will be other avenues to pvp they had not discussed yet or finalized yet. Meaning while things can change they still need to finish the game and more things could be added.
IE open seas in this case, we still lack understanding of node / guild war decs (OWpvp without corruption), potential open dungeon pvp, the pvp they added to nodes when it is destroyed not controlled by corruption.
So, even though corruption has a significant impact on general PvP, based on my observations with AoC over time, I believe there are still numerous ways to engage in PvP without it significantly hindering someone due to corruption.
That is why also when they said you could go out of your way to avoid pvp, my understanding was you would really have to go out of your way. Be it leaving a node + guild if it is dec'd, avoiding areas set as open pvp (be it dungeons, node destruction, open seas), etc. Unless you are prepared to do some pvp and want it.
I'll agree with you on AoC being more centric pvp, that is why I'm interested in the game and look forward to see how they make it feel like PvX. I get why people don't like that title though cause really there isn't a pvx mmorpg. Most have just had garbage pve and the focus was pvp.
Mag7spy
1
Re: Fundamental problem with MMOs I want Ashes to Avoid
I love vertical progression. Being rewarded for your time and effort feels great. If I get rekt by someone who is higher level and has better gear than me, then I have a reference for what can be achieved, and I can work towards and look forward to becoming stronger myself. In an RPG, skill should be an important, but not the sole factor determining the outcome of a fight.
hleV
2