Best Of
Re: What is the advantage of choosing the same archetype as class?
The short answer is we don't know yet. But IMHO that's a good thing because it means we have an opportunity to advocate for the implementation of a better system.
Personally, I think it makes sense for the double-down archetypes to provide advantageous stat distributions. The original idea for archetypes (I don't know if this is still the case) was that your stats would be modified by your archetype. For example;
Fighter: +20% STR/-30% INT/+0% AGI/+10% CON
Ranger: -20%STR/10%INT/+20% AGI/-10% CON
If you go RANGER/FIGHTER your stats now look like this;
Strider: +10%STR/-30%INT/+20%Agi/+0%CON
But if you go RANGER/RANGER your stats look like this;
Hawkeye: -20%STR/+20%INT/+30%AGi/-20%CON
So you take on bigger penalties to the stats you don't really use as a Ranger, but in return you gain a bigger bonus to the stats that you really want. If you want to play the quintessential Ranged Ranger, the Hawkeye gives you ultra-specialization at the cost of durability and utility.
However, if you want to play a hybrid Ranger that has some ability to dish out damage in melee and is a little more durable, the Strider still gives you a better stat spread for building that type of character.
And I, in turn, will disagree with this one.
I don't think that stat distributions are the way to go here, even if they're easier to understand, because they're not as controllable, and they're 'too easy to understand' in a way that would probably be either misleading or meta.
But, with the current combat style of Ashes, I can see why it might be difficult to actually use the doubled-down augments properly.
I'll continue to hope that specialization can be achieved in the same way that we've seen in the past, where empowerment against defenses is the thing you get, making the character more consistent at doing the single thing they want to do against varying targets.
Stat buffing doesn't innately do this, and in my opinion/experience, often fails terribly at it, leading to unpleasant (imo) gameplay.
Azherae
1
Re: What is the advantage of choosing the same archetype as class?
WumpusAmungus wrote: »What is the advantage of choosing the same archetype as class ?
Probably stronger Abilities of your same, original Archetype/Class.
Probably better/longer-lasting/superior Stealth as a Rogue,
probably better/stronger/further Shots as a Ranger,
probably being EVEN MORE tanky/sturdy as a Tank,
probably slice and dice even more capable as a Fighter or a Rogue, (<- DoubleRogue is "Assassin")
More blinking/teleporting as a Mage ? Faster Casting-Time ? Cooldowns reduced how often You can spam an Icy-Storm, thicc Fireballs - or Lighting-Spells ??
Strongest Heals ever as a Cleric who choose Cleric as secondary Archetype as well ??
I could imagine that it enhances and strengthens what You already have.
Aszkalon
1
Re: What is the advantage of choosing the same archetype as class?
You get the 4 augment options to apply to your skills.
I've said for a long time that I think trying to make augments for a secondary archetype that are good for both applying to that same base archeype AND onto others will not be feasable and that augment sets will need to be customized to each of the 64 classes. While this would SEEM like a lot more work it's really not. The same number of Skill/augment combinations still exist.
I've said for a long time that I think trying to make augments for a secondary archetype that are good for both applying to that same base archeype AND onto others will not be feasable and that augment sets will need to be customized to each of the 64 classes. While this would SEEM like a lot more work it's really not. The same number of Skill/augment combinations still exist.
Lodrig
1
Re: Fixing the Class system
I think the overall takeaway here is that players WANT unique and flavorful multi-classes and there is serious doubt whether or not the augment system can deliver on that front
Not 'can'. Just 'will'.
We are not lacking the idea that it can be done, we're lacking proof.
We're not really even lacking 'proof that it can be done', we have that across many games that have done it. What we lack is 'proof that Intrepid specifically can do it'.
And since the biggest concern is almost always that it won't feel unique or flavorful enough, the issue usually boils down to people wanting 'very heavy uniqueness' which is not a thing that was promised nor a thing that most people explain that they want.
If Tank/Bard and Tank/Tank achieve the same thing a lot of the time but the details differ, the only thing that matters is if Tank/Bards feel like they are doing what they expect Tank/Bard to do, not 'how unique it is from Tank/Tank'.
If it doesn't seem to be working out, as you have shown, everyone will yell at them until they fix it to work. And a lot of those people will be able to point to really precise stuff and say 'make it work like this'.
Azherae
6
Re: Consternation surrounding the 8x8 Class system and how to move forward.
While a Fighter who previously trained as a Cleric may have powerful heals in his spellbook, he can only cast one or two of them before his -50% mana pool runs out. Conversely a Cleric who previously trained as a Fighter has access to the powerful Windbeast attack , but its damage will be limited by the Clerics -20% strength modifier. However once a player has mastered both Cleric and Fighter and assumed the role of Paladin they suddenly find they have the right modifiers to use ALL of their skills in conjunction while also gaining powerful Paladin only abilities like Magic Wall which is the only ability in the game that reduces incoming Magic Damage to the entire party.
Sounds kinda rough. Like gameplay would be anemic before you unlock Paladin? And then when you unlock it, suddenly you become OP because you can use the best spells from both classes with no downside?
In any case, I think AoC is correctly trying to make the base classes as fun as possible (even at low levels), and then the subclasses/augments are used to shift the outputs of those base classes/abilities. It's not quite as flavorful this way, but it is much easier to balance and probably much faster to develop, and the gameplay should still be fun enough.
But I agree, they really should have done a better job communicating the design to players. It's not really 64 "classes" as they call it. It's 8 classes, each with 8 specs. Apologies for the food metaphor, but the 8 specs are just sauces to put on the underlying meat (class) which stays the same.
Leonerdo
2
Re: Money spent on game already BY YOU!
€0.
I have high hopes in Intrepid, and I find their offers very fair (especially the Kickstarter offers - The Founder pack for Alpha 2 with the 3 subscription months on top of it seemed super efficient at $150.)
But I already burnt over 200€ into Camelot Unchained in 2013, so I told myself I'd just let Ashes prove itself ready to launch on its own, then I can still reward them with subscriptions.
I also don't have any time for Alpha testing this semestre, and I want to upgrade my PC as late as necessary, so the development delays really work out for me, so I have time to save up and focus on studying.
I do hope to join Beta in order to get familiar with the game and my guild before launch.
I have high hopes in Intrepid, and I find their offers very fair (especially the Kickstarter offers - The Founder pack for Alpha 2 with the 3 subscription months on top of it seemed super efficient at $150.)
But I already burnt over 200€ into Camelot Unchained in 2013, so I told myself I'd just let Ashes prove itself ready to launch on its own, then I can still reward them with subscriptions.
I also don't have any time for Alpha testing this semestre, and I want to upgrade my PC as late as necessary, so the development delays really work out for me, so I have time to save up and focus on studying.
I do hope to join Beta in order to get familiar with the game and my guild before launch.
Re: Removing Waypoints During Questing: A More Immersive Exploration?
I don't agree with you and it's not about giving an epic character to quests that aren't worth it. I mean if in the quest you are told the villagers are to the west next to a house, is it so difficult for you to go west and find these villagers by yourself? Do you need a waypoint to find your way and prevent yourself from getting lost?
Re: Money spent on game already BY YOU!
$0
Which is not surprising, since I'm not going to spend more than $50 up front on a game anyways, especially if I don't even get to play it.
I also am probably not going to be able to play the game for another 4 years, or however long it takes for it to release, so I don't see any point in spending money. Sure, supporting development, and what not, but I simply don't have money to waste, and they've said they don't need the money.
I'm also a huge opponent of pre-ordering games, because in most cases it's stupid to do so, unless you've already played a version of that game previously, and you know what to expect.
I also feel my experience might be "ruined" if I played the game in a half-finished state first, so I just want to go in when the game is actually somewhat finished (probably around closed/open beta).
Which is not surprising, since I'm not going to spend more than $50 up front on a game anyways, especially if I don't even get to play it.
I also am probably not going to be able to play the game for another 4 years, or however long it takes for it to release, so I don't see any point in spending money. Sure, supporting development, and what not, but I simply don't have money to waste, and they've said they don't need the money.
I'm also a huge opponent of pre-ordering games, because in most cases it's stupid to do so, unless you've already played a version of that game previously, and you know what to expect.
I also feel my experience might be "ruined" if I played the game in a half-finished state first, so I just want to go in when the game is actually somewhat finished (probably around closed/open beta).
iccer
1
Re: Money spent on game already BY YOU!
No one knows the real numbers but some people have have done things like look up the average rent where they are. Checking how many staff and cost for their roles. Some guess that Steven has spent about 40 mill and take in another 45 mill. But take all that with a large grain of salt. Most expensive MMO was KToR. At 200 mill. It you don't count SC.
Why do people always rush to talk nonsense, I did not ask for the overall figure, I asked what each person had spent, and that they do know!!!
Nemeses
2
Money spent on game already BY YOU!
Love to know what people have already spent on all these little things they keep releasing I get the feeling they making more money now, than a lot of released MMOs do.
So if its not to personal. drop a ball park figure! of what you have spent (added, not what's everyone has spent, what you personally have spent, thought that was clear, obviously not from the answers)
I would say if you not actually going to answer the question, don't post, but no chance of that, people love getting their 2 pennies in! ( no pun intended)
PLEASE READ & UNDERSTAND THE QUESTION BEFORE REPLYING
So if its not to personal. drop a ball park figure! of what you have spent (added, not what's everyone has spent, what you personally have spent, thought that was clear, obviously not from the answers)
I would say if you not actually going to answer the question, don't post, but no chance of that, people love getting their 2 pennies in! ( no pun intended)
PLEASE READ & UNDERSTAND THE QUESTION BEFORE REPLYING
Nemeses
1