Best Of
Re: Fixing the Class system
So it was just weapons? Because I'd imagine that a fighter/tank would have more CCs and might even need a shield for some effects (though I personally highly doubt this), while a fighter/bard (or maybe fighter/summoner) would specialize in buffs/spirits.George_Black wrote: »Monk and gladiator? Hand to hand martial artist and a a weapons specialist?
A tank that has debuff augments from a bard (something similar to SK) would be treated differently to a tank who took healing augments from a cleric (TK).
This would be even more supported by the fact that we won't be able to have all of our abilities at the same time, cause there's not enough points for all of them, which lets Intrepid to design some abilities to be closer to some class augments.
And all of this talk about how classes feel and stuff comes down to visuals and lore. And both of those things can be easily made for Ashes classes, in order to differentiate them more from each other.
Wanting limited gear usability is wanting a different game. I keep talking about class gameplay exactly because it's the only thing that could be used as an argument against AoC's system, except so far I haven't seen a response that would prove that Intrepid's design can't provide a set of distinct classes.
It'll sure as hell provide more choice and variance to the player than games like L2 did. And it'll decrease the amount of people that stop being able to play the game once the meta shifts away from their preferred class.
Re: Alpha 2 Access
Will those of us that are kickstarter backers receive invites to Alpha 2 without having to purchase these new advertised keys?
I’m all for using the hype to generate more funds, but want to make sure those of us that have been supporting since 2017 are still being thought of.
no need to purchase the new keys.
Sinder
1
Re: Seasons and their meaning.
I agree that 2 weeks might be a bit too short for, I'd double it to 4 weeks.
Though I wouldn't go as far as saying that seasons currently make "no" sense.
Though I wouldn't go as far as saying that seasons currently make "no" sense.
Kilion
1
Re: Fixing the Class system
And how is this any different from "duelist is a gimp class" in L2? Or "why pick anyone but SH, if you wanna mage, cause SH has the highest m.atk and cast speed can be maxxed out either way"? Or elven templar being disregarded in majority of parties with a tank.George_Black wrote: »other non viable options (which are not classes, despite having a title), will go out the window.
All games with classes that compete for the same role will have classes that are "worse" than others in the game's meta. Ashes will not be any different from that, because this is inevitable. But what Ashes will be different at is the fact that if you chose the role of a tank for yourself - you'll still be able to play your main character if your chosen class has fallen out of meta, as opposed to your guild telling you "go make an alt, cause your class (that you literally cannot chage) is useless to us right now".
Re: Fixing the Class system
How is Dualist's ranged skill any different from Tyrant's ranged skill? Only visuals, right? But they're 2 different classes stemming from the fighter archetype.George_Black wrote: »You get to use the fighter skills, augment them with a secondary combo but you are still a Fighter.
You have the gameplay mechanic of the melee dps and pvp brawler. You dont have a class identity, skill distinction and lore behind it, like we had in L2.
How exactly would Ashes be any different here? We'll have the base of the fighter, with the skills that represent that archetype, and then we'll be modifying those skills with visuals (supposedly) and even effects.
That is my point here. OP is worried about naming schemes of stuff that's only marginally different from one another. And this is not even considering that each class supposedly comes with 4 augment schools (though rn I think it'll only be 2 specials schools and 2 generalized per class). And depending on how those schools can be applied to our skills - there's a chance that AoC's classes will have more differences than L2's did.
Like, the 3 elemental mages of L2 barely differed from one another, even though they were supposedly "3 different classes". Same shit with the 3 different archers. Same shit with tanks. Same shit with summoners. They all had several different classes, but at their core they were barely different.
I'd imagine Steven saw that class design, added the AA's "class combos" (from what I recall of hearing about that system) and came up with the augment system for Ashes. Which is why I'm trying to understand how "a melee class named Fighter", "a melee class called Monk", "a melee class named Dreadnaught" and "a melee class named Duelist" are meant to somehow be different from one another outside of "they use different gear, have different visuals on skills and have different lore".
Because to me that's exactly how it looks. They're all archetypical melee dpsers and all have skills that are really similar in their effects. And that is exactly what Ashes is going for.
Re: Fixing the Class system
Ludullu_(NiKr) wrote: »I'm trying to understand how what the OP wants is in any way different from what Intrepid can already have in the game. If OP's "monk" is the same as L2's Tyrant - that is literally just the fighter but with buffs and fist weapons. So AoC's fighter can just get augments from bard and use daggers or smth (I would also like fist weapons in Ashes, but so far we ain't got any, but that has nothing to do with class skillsets).George_Black wrote: »You dont know the difference between the words class and role?
And if Shaman is something similar to Warcryer or Over - that's just bard/mage, a debuffers with some magical dmg.
But maybe OP's expectations of those classes is somehow drastically different from the stuff I described above, which is why I asked for a clarification.
You wont be able to understand.
You are talking about gameplay. You are not talking about classes.
To make it simple to you, there are no Dark Knights, Necromancers, Paladins, druids, monks in AoC.
There are gameplay options provided (which will be diluded by the unrestricted gear options) and they are narrow.
You get to use the fighter skills, augment them with a secondary combo but you are still a Fighter.
You have the gameplay mechanic of the melee dps and pvp brawler. You dont have a class identity, skill distinction and lore behind it, like we had in L2.
And as soon as the meta hits all those bard/rogue
mage/fighter
Tank/archer
Summoner/fighter and other non viable options (which are not classes, despite having a title), will go out the window.
The game will be better with 15-20 solid classes, with unique skills( some of which can be shared across the board) and lore, and real weapon specilization.
These are classes. These make you say "Yes I play a necromancer."
Whether you are a melee dps or ranged magical dps is irrelevant to class fantasy. They are roles in a group, aimed at succeeding in the game.
Clasees provide you with a sense of fantasy identity and story.
Re: Fixing the Class system
I'm trying to understand how what the OP wants is in any way different from what Intrepid can already have in the game. If OP's "monk" is the same as L2's Tyrant - that is literally just the fighter but with buffs and fist weapons. So AoC's fighter can just get augments from bard and use daggers or smth (I would also like fist weapons in Ashes, but so far we ain't got any, but that has nothing to do with class skillsets).George_Black wrote: »You dont know the difference between the words class and role?
And if Shaman is something similar to Warcryer or Over - that's just bard/mage, a debuffers with some magical dmg.
But maybe OP's expectations of those classes is somehow drastically different from the stuff I described above, which is why I asked for a clarification.
Re: Fixing the Class system
It was a genuine question. I got no clue what you mean by monk or shaman, because I never played/seen what those classes do or how they differ from a melee physical dps and a ranged magic dps.AirborneBerserker wrote: »Your right no differences between those classes at all.
Re: Fixing the Class system
How is monk different from a fighter? How is shaman different from a mage?AirborneBerserker wrote: »Mage, Monk, Fighter, Shaman are all classes. While some of them are similar they all have different playstyles, different armor, different weapons, different spells and abilities.
Re: Fixing the Class system
Personally, I am not commenting much on the class system until we learn what exactly the details of the class system are.