Best Of
Re: [Feedback Request] Alpha Two Citadel of the Steel Bloom & Firebrand Preview | August Livestream
Thought the dungeon looked like fun, slow intentional pulls were good, enjoy the fact that every pull requires some work, not just pull and destroy in seconds. Lighting and visuals look great, but maybe turn down the god rays slightly.
Firebrand fight was very interesting and fun to watch. Hoping that the fight will actually last longer than it did, think it was a very short boss fight, especially considering during release there will be a very large amount of people going for it and not just the one raid. If you are the initial raid fighting the boss and are attacked by another raid trying to steal it, is there a timer for the health regen of the boss? Is the idea to balance defending our kill and defending against the attackers?
Also agree with some of the things mentioned before that when he lands I would expect some ground shaking or knees bending by the dragon. Also, some slight AOE indicators, and more tactical aspects to the fight, wind gust from the wings causing a stagger or knockback, maybe rear up on his hind legs and stomp down to cause damage/knockdown to the close range attackers, would like to see more things to dodge and pay attention to. Overall, I thought it looked great, looking forward to testing soon.
Firebrand fight was very interesting and fun to watch. Hoping that the fight will actually last longer than it did, think it was a very short boss fight, especially considering during release there will be a very large amount of people going for it and not just the one raid. If you are the initial raid fighting the boss and are attacked by another raid trying to steal it, is there a timer for the health regen of the boss? Is the idea to balance defending our kill and defending against the attackers?
Also agree with some of the things mentioned before that when he lands I would expect some ground shaking or knees bending by the dragon. Also, some slight AOE indicators, and more tactical aspects to the fight, wind gust from the wings causing a stagger or knockback, maybe rear up on his hind legs and stomp down to cause damage/knockdown to the close range attackers, would like to see more things to dodge and pay attention to. Overall, I thought it looked great, looking forward to testing soon.
_k00k_
1
Re: Vassal resentment
after today's podcast. I am 100% one of the petty & vindictive people that won't accept being a vassal no matter what the reward structure looks like. the thought of someone else being in an inherently better position than me (if not mechanically then prestige wise) is something I tend to act in resentment of. I would rather do everything to tear down the owning node than join it in any capacity.
there are absolutely going to be people like that in the game.
now that being said. we have not actually tried the vassal system at all. but what are the community's initial view on it?
it seems to me that a lot of people are having a gut reaction to immediately want to rebel but are there some who see this in a more optimistic light?
I am curious, and this goes for @Ludullu_(NiKr) as well, is there no reward structure that would have you be happy living in a vassal node?
Let's say you get access to all the services of your parent node anyway, even if for a few of them you have to travel 5 minutes to get there, and you get an extra 5% boost to XP and gold that the parent citizens don't get. Just as an example where game-mechanically you are better off in the vassal node than if you were to make that node the parent node.
Is there any point where you would be happy being the vassal? Or does the pride aspect mean more than anything else?
Nerror
2
Re: PvE difficulty or a lack thereof
Players need to change their mindset to open world adventure mmo. They need to stop using words like PvE and PvP.
You need to craft gear to completent you class to respond to all enemies, and succeed in it's dual function, eg mage, dps while killing mobs and bosses, nuker when targeting players.
The difficulting setting of PvE is a false premise if you dont take in account the chances that you would face hostile players and so you need to conserve your MP and skill cooldowns.
The joy perhaps that AoC is aimng for isnt whether you have fun killing mobs with a fun rotation but rather if you and your group master the game and achive your goals, and impose your will on none allied guilds and nodes.
Dont expect the challenge and satisfaction of games that sell currated instanced encounters full of intense mechanics like wow and Tera, dont expend Souls Like mob complexities and dont expect Tekken like combat seen in ESO and BDO.
Those games lack in the variety of things that mmos should design well:
Adventuring questing
Raiding
Sieging and guild wars
Duels and small scale encounters
Crafting and economy
You need to craft gear to completent you class to respond to all enemies, and succeed in it's dual function, eg mage, dps while killing mobs and bosses, nuker when targeting players.
The difficulting setting of PvE is a false premise if you dont take in account the chances that you would face hostile players and so you need to conserve your MP and skill cooldowns.
The joy perhaps that AoC is aimng for isnt whether you have fun killing mobs with a fun rotation but rather if you and your group master the game and achive your goals, and impose your will on none allied guilds and nodes.
Dont expect the challenge and satisfaction of games that sell currated instanced encounters full of intense mechanics like wow and Tera, dont expend Souls Like mob complexities and dont expect Tekken like combat seen in ESO and BDO.
Those games lack in the variety of things that mmos should design well:
Adventuring questing
Raiding
Sieging and guild wars
Duels and small scale encounters
Crafting and economy
Re: Is there a problem for solo players
AirborneBerserker wrote: »Really?AirborneBerserker wrote: »First there is no reason to assume most people are in guilds given most MMO players are solo, meaning at best your looking at 50% of people being in guilds.
Where are they?
I often literally go months in an MMORPG without seeing a non-guilded character that is above level 10.
Are you talking about this game?
No, I'm talking about almost any MMORPG.
I almost never see unguilded players out running content. There are a few around town - mostly low level shit-talking alts.
The notion that half of MMORPG players are unguilded is kind of a wild claim, tbh.
Noaani
3
Re: [Feedback Request] Alpha Two Citadel of the Steel Bloom & Firebrand Preview | August Livestream
How do you feel about the Citadel of the Steel Bloom & Firebrand Preview?
The fog, dust, bloom, and sunrays were far too rampant and too extreme. They need to be dialed back as it makes it impossible to see anything.
Is there anything in particular you’re excited or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Citadel of the Steel Bloom & Firebrand Preview?
I'm concerned about the lack of contesting parties being shown, since this is a PvX game. What happens if another group comes and fights you during the event? I think this is an important part of the game that needs to be represented in the streams.
I thought the part where the NPC was walking to the altar was a bit undercooked. You want this to be a memorable character, not just a moving jpg. I think in general, the Citadel was not showcased in a very flattering way. I think it would have been a good idea for Steven to hop on a flying mount for a couple seconds to give an aerial view of the dungeon.
I also think Firebrand shouldnt just be sitting idle after spawning in and flying down, but I guess that was likely just for the stream. He should have playful idle animations, sleeping animations, nesting animations, etc.
Firebrand Mechanics:
I thought the first phase of Firebrand was a little lacking mechanics wise, but I think it picked up a lot during the second phase. I really liked the flame devouring mechanic that buffs his damage, but also saw someone mention a mechanic where Firebrand could trap someone in a ball of flame and devour them if the group doesnt perform an action (maybe a DPS check or some other thing).
I also think that a prevalent problem with the mobs and bosses in ashes is they don't do anything EXCEPT damage or applying debuffs. I would expect things like the tail swipe to launch players out of position if they are hit. I would expect slam moves to knock people down. I would expect roaring attacks to silence people.
Are there similar areas or enemies you’ve seen in other games that you like or dislike? If so, please explain!
Placidusax from Elden Ring: https://youtu.be/Xc5jJvPOeWo
Bayle from the Elden Ring DLC: https://youtu.be/ZY3yT174dGg
The fog, dust, bloom, and sunrays were far too rampant and too extreme. They need to be dialed back as it makes it impossible to see anything.
Is there anything in particular you’re excited or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Citadel of the Steel Bloom & Firebrand Preview?
I'm concerned about the lack of contesting parties being shown, since this is a PvX game. What happens if another group comes and fights you during the event? I think this is an important part of the game that needs to be represented in the streams.
I thought the part where the NPC was walking to the altar was a bit undercooked. You want this to be a memorable character, not just a moving jpg. I think in general, the Citadel was not showcased in a very flattering way. I think it would have been a good idea for Steven to hop on a flying mount for a couple seconds to give an aerial view of the dungeon.
I also think Firebrand shouldnt just be sitting idle after spawning in and flying down, but I guess that was likely just for the stream. He should have playful idle animations, sleeping animations, nesting animations, etc.
Firebrand Mechanics:
I thought the first phase of Firebrand was a little lacking mechanics wise, but I think it picked up a lot during the second phase. I really liked the flame devouring mechanic that buffs his damage, but also saw someone mention a mechanic where Firebrand could trap someone in a ball of flame and devour them if the group doesnt perform an action (maybe a DPS check or some other thing).
I also think that a prevalent problem with the mobs and bosses in ashes is they don't do anything EXCEPT damage or applying debuffs. I would expect things like the tail swipe to launch players out of position if they are hit. I would expect slam moves to knock people down. I would expect roaring attacks to silence people.
Are there similar areas or enemies you’ve seen in other games that you like or dislike? If so, please explain!
Placidusax from Elden Ring: https://youtu.be/Xc5jJvPOeWo
Bayle from the Elden Ring DLC: https://youtu.be/ZY3yT174dGg
Re: will this game ever launch
we all respect the hard work the team is putting in and we understand that development can take time, however at some point we need to start asking the questions and stop using this as the narrative. Everybody here loves how ambitious the project is and stevens vision but i think its about time intrepid stop treating the people funding this project like we are naive children
there are a a hardcore group of intrepid fans that make any negative post on the forums almost obsolete because every time one is made they rush to intrepid's defense like intrepid is developing the cure for cancer.
its about time that intrepid start answering the real questions we have and stop beating around the bush, every single live stream at this point feels like we are watching a bunch of politicians, and every question chosen for the ama's are just the select few that can be answered without giving out any information.
we need to stop using '' what other company is this transparent '' as a defensive mechanism because that can only go so far when you realize that that this game has been funded through the community following the project, obviously we understand that steven has put in his personal funds but also steven will be the one that benefits once the game is complete, i think we are in the ball park of what 40+ million dollars funded by the community on pre order packs and keys, so obviously the company should be transparent that is expected at this point..
120$ for an alpha 2 key is ridiculous, AAA games are selling finished games for less than this, and as we all know steven's background in sales, stating '' don't buy this if you are looking for a finished game '' but then adding FOMO elements to packages, just contradict each other, furthurmore everyone that got FOMO'd into buying A2 for 250$ when packages were apparently ending and then bringing them back for half the price should be borderline illegal,
i have heared you are saying this is not a game and then saying that it is a game within the same sentence whilst delivering your '' dont buy this if you want to play a full game speech '' at this point we all know what you are doing, the packs are a cash grab and if you need cash be transparent about it.
it also needs to be said that intrepid are stating in the livestreams that they NEED testers yet putting it behind a paywall is just insane, atleast pay the people testing for you with in game time or embers or something
now for the real questions, i personally believe that the game is looking great, i love the visuals and i think that what we have seen has come a long way, but what we have seen is probably 1/10th of what is planned, and we are 8 years into development, we have continuously missed without fail every deadline intrepid has ever given us, the character creator was suppose the be released before A2 when A2 had a Q3 release date, and this is not a direct quote but something along the lines was said that it was basically finished, yet we have only ever seen the same two models over and over again, all models look basically the same on the live streams, the dwarf looks terrible, yet we have videos two years old of the character creator pretty much being fleshed out
its been stated A2 will last a year + from the real release of pretty much Q3 2025, so i would guess that with the way development goes over at intrepid we will have a 9 month delay from A2 to the betas and then they will drag out with missed timelines just like the previous A1/A2, we have waited 3 years for A2 since A1 and the one thing that was promised '' a persistent up time until launch '' has also been removed, you can spin it however you want but people bought in with expectations that A2 would be up 24/7 from release and that is the way that it was sold to us
we have still not seen
any secondaries
Naval content
nodes higher than level 3
16/18 biomes?
the rogue
the summoner
bounty hunting
duels
monster coins
the list goes on and on and would take me to long to type out, the content planned for A2 sounds good on paper, when you deep dive into every system announced realistically its very lackluster and will most likely have a content drought a week or two in.
after alpha 2 we are most likely going to be 11-12 years into development, thats 1/3rd or more of most of our lives, there are people that have purchased packs here expecting to play in 2020 like it was stated in the kickstarter that are no longer with us due to dying of old age before this game was released, this is not shade its just facts,
intrepid you can develop the most beautiful game in the world and show us tiny portions of this during the live stream but it all means nothing if the game never gets past development, as someone that did purcahse into the game and did so to support the company and vision '' i will add i don't regret this decision '' but i will be honest its time that we would like to see where all our money has gone, 40 million dollars plus in crowd funding its about time you are open with us and give us a real time line or road map, as the latest live stream was just a kick in the face to anyone that has really been following this project
im ready for all the hate this post will get and for the intrepid hardcore fans to come out of the woodwork to defend their Messiah, but you know what i don't care.
I'll take the bait. The game is progressing nicely. No complaints about the timeline. You mention, and then agree with the ambition of the project, but then want it faster. You can't have both.
The monetization, is talked about in 9 other topics on the first page of this forum.
Time table wise, we will have to wait as they make something good. We can see the effort and progress, so it's not like they are sitting on their hands. What else do you want?
"Are we there yet?"
No, we are not there yet.
yes i would like it done faster, its crazy that this has become the narrative to make people look bad by wanting this, we are 40 million dollars plus in donations to this game so yes after 8 years i would like the game to be past A2 by now, when we are still 4-5 years + from a release from what i can see
There were clearly challenges and meaningful changes that needed to happen.
There may be more. Intrepid is a small studio in a specific sense, even now. They're barely growing out of it.
You get updates every month, and you, yourself, have almost always been positive or mostly-positive toward the updates. Steven has never done this before, and that means he has to be given some leeway to make mistakes, change his mind on things, etc.
In the meantime, if you show your support for the ideas of Ashes, other games will come. They will be reminded of the old days when those ideas still had a foothold and they will start to put them back into their MMORPGs.
Just play those games until Ashes comes out.
I'm not trying to 'apologize' for things like the AMA Livestream, I didn't like it either, but what's the point of the negativity toward the game itself?
If you rag on Steven, he will probably face that, but 'it's time to see where our money has gone'... just assume that what you see is what they have managed so far, and if you're super disappointed by that, then... what?
"You're slow and you're making mistakes!" changes nothing.
i agree he has never done this before, but you know what he has done? Sales, and many of them, and what he is doing with the A2 keys is straight cringe and steven should know better,
Chicago
1
Re: Instanced Content Should Not Offer Power Gains
In a recent Discord discussion, Steven confirmed that the plan for Ashes of Creation includes allowing rewards from 20% of instanced content. While this may seem like a balanced approach, it raises significant concerns about maintaining the integrity of the game’s open-world design.
The moment you introduce power gains from PvE instancing, it sets off a chain reaction that inevitably leads to similar PvP instancing with rewards. This progression is harmful to the game’s open-world experience and its foundational vision.
1) Detracting from the Open-World Experience:
The true strength of Ashes of Creation lies in its commitment to an immersive, open-world environment where players interact dynamically and meaningfully. Introducing instanced content with power gains pulls players away from this shared world, reducing the richness of player interactions and the world itself.
2) The Domino Effect:
Once PvE instancing with rewards is established, there will be pressure to provide comparable PvP instancing with rewards. This further fragments the player base, drawing them into isolated scenarios rather than encouraging them to participate in the larger, open-world environment.
3) Learning from Other Games:
Many MMORPGs, like World of Warcraft, Guild Wars 2, and Elder Scrolls Online, have become "faux open-world" games where instanced content dominates the endgame. These games often favor PvE over PvP, leading to a lopsided experience where PvP is diminished and the open world feels less relevant. Ashes of Creation has the opportunity to avoid this pitfall and offer a truly unique experience.
4)The Potential of Open-World PvE:
There’s a strong argument that the best PvE experiences can and should be open-world. Intrepid Studios has the opportunity to implement creative and innovative solutions, such as multi-tiered open-world dungeons and environments. These could offer high skill ceiling PvE mechanics while maintaining the ever-present risk of PvP. Such content would be reserved for the best players, challenging them to master both the environment and their fellow players in a truly dynamic setting.
Addressing Steven Sharif's Quote:
Steven Sharif stated, "There is more than enough space to fill with regards to reward tables and the open vs instanced content. While the instanced content may not include the added risk of player vs player, it also means that the control setting is higher and capable of involving more rigid gameplay mechanics that can be quite tough and high on the skill ceiling."
While it is true that instanced content allows for more controlled settings and challenging gameplay, this approach risks undermining the core vision of Ashes of Creation. Instead of focusing on instanced content, the game should emphasize creating complex and challenging scenarios within the open world itself. This would keep players engaged with the environment and each other, preserving the risk and dynamic interactions that define the game’s unique appeal.
Conclusion:
To preserve the integrity and appeal of Ashes of Creation, instanced content should be carefully balanced. Power gains should remain tied to the open world, ensuring that players stay engaged with the core vision of the game—an immersive, interconnected world where player interactions and exploration are key. By implementing creative, open-world PvE content with high skill ceilings and maintaining the risk of PvP, Intrepid Studios can deliver a truly unique and dynamic MMORPG experience.
This is one very long slippery slope fallacy with a lot of assertions and nothing connecting them.
Also player housing will have the same effect except on a much larger scale with no power involved.
Also, also, most games have 100% instanced dungeons and raids. Bitching about only getting 80% makes you sound entitled and ungrateful. Be happy with the win. Prioritize the game being great over getting the exact thing you want.
Re: Instanced Content Should Not Offer Power Gains
If you want to be taken seriously in a discussion, don't make numbers up.58 million dollars in ‘85 says otherwise, good is perspective, it’s an all time top selling game.
Super Mario sold over $70 million within the first three months of it's release, in Japan alone. Inflation adjusted, that would come to about $200 million now.
However, I have no idea why you are making up fake numbers for a game in a different genre, on a different platform, from a different millennium. I mean, it's not like you've made an argument with it, you just introduced it falsely stating it was good PvE, then you made up fake sales figures for it.
Honestly, what kind of reaction is it you expect someone to have to that?
Noaani
2
Re: Is there a problem for solo players
I hope this game has some RP servers. I use to run guilds in AoC (Age of Conan) and SWTOR and then tired myself out of hardcore raiding in games like EQ2, FFXI, and WOW. I now am a solo player as I haven't gotten as much time as the youth and I'm fine with that. I plan on doing some RP in this game and i will be mainly based off of being a exiled Paladin living off the lands hiding from the evil powers at hand that ruined my name. That will be my start to the game and I shall go from there. lol
With all of that being said I believe solo players can also have fun in this game as long as you set a goal of what you want to achieve. You can be a crafter and do work for a guild, or you can hire a group to farm mats for you. You can be someone that is a sword for hire. Watching a lot of anime maybe guilds can make quest for solo players to do. Watching this game for a while now it seems like there can be unlimited possibilities as long as players are willing to put in the work and make the game welcoming for everyone of all play styles.
With all of that being said I believe solo players can also have fun in this game as long as you set a goal of what you want to achieve. You can be a crafter and do work for a guild, or you can hire a group to farm mats for you. You can be someone that is a sword for hire. Watching a lot of anime maybe guilds can make quest for solo players to do. Watching this game for a while now it seems like there can be unlimited possibilities as long as players are willing to put in the work and make the game welcoming for everyone of all play styles.
Eastrid
1