Best Of
Re: Steven's response to secondary archetypes
There will always be something considered meta, no matter what you do. They should even out the classes the best they can and then not worry about it. As the game changes and the years go on, every class will have its time in the sun. It's a non issue, and not something you can solve anyway.
With that being a reality, they should give us as much class diversity as they possibly can through the augments. The variations should feel like completely different experiences. That makes for a far better video game than boring, perfect and impossible to achieve balance.
With that being a reality, they should give us as much class diversity as they possibly can through the augments. The variations should feel like completely different experiences. That makes for a far better video game than boring, perfect and impossible to achieve balance.
Diamaht
1
Re: Is there a problem for solo players
AirborneBerserker wrote: »Very few people here look at this game as being unique.AirborneBerserker wrote: »This game isn't as unique as people think it is. They just don't realize it yet.
Most look at it as being similar to either L2 or Archeage, with a few other systems thrown in.
Both of those games were commercially successful, even if their popularity over time doesn't really compare to other contemporary more PvE focused games (L2 vs EQ, Archeage vs ESO - no real contest in either case, at least not in the west).
Yeah people HERE, the problem is the majority of people are not here. They came to the website because they watched a you tube video registered and left. They haven't thought about the game since, and when it launches they will buy a copy of the game without looking into it because you tuber x said it was good 3 years ago.
I'm not sure what point you are trying to make here.
If people form an incorrect opinion on the game specifically because they didn't engage in discussion about the game with others, that is there fault and no one elses.
Yes, some people that put no effort in to understanding a topic usually do have a number of misconceptions about said topic. Why would we discuss anything at all about that here?
Also, you have still not answered the question - which MMORPG is it you have played where your claimed 50%+ people are unguilded? Until you answer that, I have to assume you are just another one of those people that make shit up on the internet to support the ill concieved position they have - and we know it is an ill concieved position because they find themselves needing to make shit up in order to support that position.
Will that change the fact that they will leave the game disgruntled probably leave a negative review? No it wont, and if to many people do that you get no fresh new players because no one wants to play a game with a 30% user score.
WoW (first 2 expansions), EQ2, SWtoR, WildStar, FFXIV, GW2, LotRO, The Secret World, Rift, Fallen Earth (not exactly lots of people playing this), Neverwinter, probably others that I can't remember.
Re: Is there a problem for solo players
Very few people here look at this game as being unique.AirborneBerserker wrote: »This game isn't as unique as people think it is. They just don't realize it yet.
Most look at it as being similar to either L2 or Archeage, with a few other systems thrown in.
Both of those games were commercially successful, even if their popularity over time doesn't really compare to other contemporary more PvE focused games (L2 vs EQ, Archeage vs ESO - no real contest in either case, at least not in the west).
Yeah people HERE, the problem is the majority of people are not here. They came to the website because they watched a you tube video registered and left. They haven't thought about the game since, and when it launches they will buy a copy of the game without looking into it because you tuber x said it was good 3 years ago.
Re: Is there a problem for solo players
bloodprophet wrote: »Why build another?
That is a great question. I will go on a limb and say because Steven has the money and wants to.
Only.....you know because that's is his words. But hey why should a guy get to do what he wants with his money?
GW2 is a complete shit show. I tried for two weeks to like the game before I realized. This is shit and not for me. I uninstalled it and moved on.
What I didn't do was go on their forums and tell them they had to change the game or it would fail and people wouldn't play.
Yeah because making a game more niche doesn't help it succeed. What people are suggesting is make the game less niche. Making it more accessible. So when the game launches more people are satisfied or at the very least not disappointed.
bloodprophet wrote: »Define a clear target audience for me?
So far we see care bears and RP people excited to get in plus all of us that like the idea as given years ago. But it seems to have drawn a wide range of people.
How about PvP in general with a Group focus. I.E. there will be a focus on end game PvP systems for Groups and Guilds, but there will also be stuff for Solo, RP, and Casual people to play, also based around PvP. With high difficulty PvE.
Re: Is there a problem for solo players
bloodprophet wrote: »bloodprophet wrote: »"Caeryl: wrote:Why did we, as young kids, grind our favorite mmos? From what've I've seen/talked about with friends - it's usually cause we were proving ourselves to others (and to ourselves as well). In an mmo you're just a random dude, so if you manage to achieve something big - that's you. You achieved that. And when you're a kid who hasn't achieved shit irl - mmos are a great place to make some achievements.
No bud, that isn’t why people play MMOs. Honestly that would be laughable to hear someone claim playing an MMO was about proving they could do something useful with their time. MMOs are played for fun.
Sorry, but that’s absolutely idiotic.
For some it is. That is how a lot of guys are wired. The thrill of competition. The fight. The chase is all that matters.
This is where the midlife crisis comes from. Guys wake up one day and find they forgot the thrill of the chase. Run off and start doing dumb shit searching for the young man they were. Buy a fast car or go sky diving for the first time.
The fight is the fun. and bragging to your friends about winning or getting stomped in OWPVP the next day is the main reason some guys even log in.
Wanting something fun to do is not ‘proving anything’. It’s competition and a social environment, but no one with a brain thinks they’re proving anything in a video game.
‘Men are hardwired to be stupid batshit idiots at 50’ is also 1) stupid as a premise 2) has nothing to do with MMOs needing to have a clear target audience to engage with all these systems they’re making
Ashes currently doesn’t have a clear audience. It’s not MMO vets, they can’t commit the time required to succeed in Ashes. It’s not the younger players that are familiar with QoL systems Ashes won’t have. It isn’t for cooperative players due to the reward structure within PvX content. We have yet to see any challenging instanced PvE for that demographic. Large scale PvP so far looks like it’ll be a zerg fest which PvP players don’t really enjoy.
So I ask again. Who is Ashes of Creation being designed for?
Myself and Nikr for starters.
What do you consider fun?
Cause so far everything you listed sounds fun to me.
Define a clear target audience for me?
So far we see care bears and RP people excited to get in plus all of us that like the idea as given years ago. But it seems to have drawn a wide range of people.
With how the world is laid out and the servers each server will be different. Some maybe more to your liking then you and Dygz can hang out pick flowers and do Shakespeare in the park.
Zerg fests, unrewarding PvX systems, and a lack of difficult PvE appeal to you? I highly doubt that. Not to mention Nikr is already complaining about citizen choices (something the player has total control over) having consequences for sieges.
I enjoy objective based PvP with some permanence to the consequences, difficult PvE encounters that require a lot of skill and coordination within a group (so far have yet to see any sign this), a strong foundation for crafters to be needed at all levels of gameplay, interconnected PvX systems, and detailed world-building with game systems reflective of it.
Ashes will have a lot of this, but it will also require a high amount of time commitment to do any of it. Easiest example, many people will simply never have the option of participating in a siege because they work during the server prime time, unless they shift to a different regional server that will let them play during that time-zones prime time and suffer the increased latency.
The mechanics as they exist right now aren't conductive to getting MMO vets involved, those who have the nostalgia factor appealing to them.
The current design is structured primarily around players with copious amounts of free time. Teenagers, college students, unemployed, streamers, maybe retired folks.
Ashes isn't a game for everyone, true, but they need to then answer who the game is for. If it's for no-life'ing youngsters, then it's on the right course, but it's going to be very niche in that case, and a niche game doesn't make for '10k per server' and sustaining purely off sub costs.
Caeryl
1
Re: Is there a problem for solo players
Ludullu_(NiKr) wrote: »Yes, yall definitely know other people better than those people know themselves. I'm happy that yall were so self-assured and mentally established when you were young that you didn't need to measure yourselves up against other people. All cool.
Ashes will 100% fail cause casuals and solos won't be getting rewards from bosses, especially considering that casuals and solos won't even play the game because the game has no target audience
All of that is definitely true, factual and will happen
Yes you are not the unique snowflake you think you are. Human motivations are all basically the same. What changes is how you choose to fulfil those motivations. And when those two match up were basically all the same person.
Re: Is there a problem for solo players
bloodprophet wrote: »If single player shared world games like GW2 exist already, why build a other one?
Are we looking for a good MMO or another pretender/clone of something else with no challenge handing out gold stars everytime someone does something?
If Hardcore PvP games that allow guilds to dominate why build another one?
I can say the same thing and it still applies. This game isn't as unique as people think it is. They just don't realize it yet.
bloodprophet wrote: »The alpha 1 out played GW2 and ESO.
Just because the lemmings play enmass does not make it a good game
No but it does make it a profitable. And if you want this game to stick around then you need to think about that. And if your doing 99% of the work to bring in solo and casual PvP players you should probably do that extra 1% and get their money for a while.
bloodprophet wrote: »My only concern here is Steven presented a vision of what he wanted to make. Several thousand people said" That sounds awesome!" And we started following. Even in the early days people have tried to get them to charge it to make it "main stream".
I am not trying to make the game main stream what I personally want is a tiny corner that a lot of players will like which will have some other benefits.bloodprophet wrote: »This is where the midlife crisis comes from. Guys wake up one day and find they forgot the thrill of the chase. Run off and start doing dumb shit searching for the young man they were. Buy a fast car or go sky diving for the first time.
Bro, that is not what mid life crisis' are about. It's about realizing there is more living behind you then in front of you.
Re: Is there a problem for solo players
Ludullu_(NiKr) wrote: »
Ludullu_(NiKr) wrote: »
Your defending a Guild exclusive system, not a group based one. There's a big difference. Think about this; lets say you need to farm one dungeon in particular to get the mats for some set of gear. Guild 1 decides there going to farm that Dungeon for 4 hours on Thursdays, Guild 2 Wednesdays, so on till all 7 days are covered. Now what times are they going to do this? Probably the times that everyone else is on between 6-11pm they have now locked out 60% of the players on the server from ever getting that server while they farm. Not that big a deal once they all have their gear they will stop farming, except they wont because the repair system requires those materials, not to mention they can sell them on the AH.
Ludullu_(NiKr) wrote: »Solos and casuals have the lowest risk.
They are defended by the corruption system.
First of all the corruption system doesn't defend anyone. A defense is a barrier between two things protecting one of those things. Corruption is a punishment system where the punishment is do the thing you were going to do anyways(grind experience). Which isn't a punishment at all. The only way your actually punished is if some other player decides to punish you, and even then there's no guarantee that you will be punished.
That's not including work arounds and trickery to circumvent the system entirely.
Ludullu_(NiKr) wrote: »Why did we, as young kids, grind our favorite mmos? From what've I've seen/talked about with friends - it's usually cause we were proving ourselves to others (and to ourselves as well).
It has nothing to do with proving yourself. You were having fun, its that simple. If you were miserable and couldnt get anything done you would have quit the game in less then a month.
Ludullu_(NiKr) wrote: »Back in late 00s I played L2 with several older dudes who were playing L2 in the exact way I described. They'd log into the game, open a beer and just chill in guild chat while grinding some mobs on the side. And they'd watch huge pvps happening near them, just as entertainment. Those dudes had wives, kids, houses, etc. They were completely satisfied with their life and the game just provided them with a group of people with a similar interest that they could talk to every day. A true social experience.
Yes, back when your options for social media were Facebook and MySpace, and playing games on the internet was novel that worked. Now, there are about10 times the games you can play and if you want to socialize there's about 10,000 apps to do that with.
Re: Is there a problem for solo players
bloodprophet wrote: »"Caeryl: wrote:Why did we, as young kids, grind our favorite mmos? From what've I've seen/talked about with friends - it's usually cause we were proving ourselves to others (and to ourselves as well). In an mmo you're just a random dude, so if you manage to achieve something big - that's you. You achieved that. And when you're a kid who hasn't achieved shit irl - mmos are a great place to make some achievements.
No bud, that isn’t why people play MMOs. Honestly that would be laughable to hear someone claim playing an MMO was about proving they could do something useful with their time. MMOs are played for fun.
Sorry, but that’s absolutely idiotic.
For some it is. That is how a lot of guys are wired. The thrill of competition. The fight. The chase is all that matters.
This is where the midlife crisis comes from. Guys wake up one day and find they forgot the thrill of the chase. Run off and start doing dumb shit searching for the young man they were. Buy a fast car or go sky diving for the first time.
The fight is the fun. and bragging to your friends about winning or getting stomped in OWPVP the next day is the main reason some guys even log in.
Wanting something fun to do is not ‘proving anything’. It’s competition and a social environment, but no one with a brain thinks they’re proving anything in a video game.
‘Men are hardwired to be stupid batshit idiots at 50’ is also 1) stupid as a premise 2) has nothing to do with MMOs needing to have a clear target audience to engage with all these systems they’re making
Ashes currently doesn’t have a clear audience. It’s not MMO vets, they can’t commit the time required to succeed in Ashes. It’s not the younger players that are familiar with QoL systems Ashes won’t have. It isn’t for cooperative players due to the reward structure within PvX content. We have yet to see any challenging instanced PvE for that demographic. Large scale PvP so far looks like it’ll be a zerg fest which PvP players don’t really enjoy.
So I ask again. Who is Ashes of Creation being designed for?
Caeryl
2