Best Of
Re: Loot System Changes
All these proposed "solutions" because some people refuse to take initiative, join a guild, and leave said guild if it doesn't fit their standards.
I can see why you can't find guilds, you're extremely difficult to work with.
What about not wanting easily abused loot systems makes a person hard to work with exactly?
So far no one has had an answer as to why the ‘better’ system is one that has easy and wide reaching abuse potential that ultimately will discourage players from wanting to contest open world PvP bosses, as opposed to a system where the game determines loot allocation, where any ‘abuse’ would be minuscule in scale of affect, and ensures meaningful contributors haven’t wasted their time, effort, and gear degradation they sustained to take on difficult, highly competitive content.
That is not ‘literally every lvl1 who looked at it gets loot’ for those who are still under the warped impression that the choices are either ‘99% of players get shitall’ (because we include the raids that competed and lost) and ‘I get gold just by standing around’.
You have to motivate players to do content and the easiest, fairest way is the have the reward structure handled entirely by the game.
Anything more should not be possible to mandate, and should be something the guild comes together organically to do after the fact. Do need-greed in your group chat, bid in discord, let them swap between each other based on their needs. And for the love of everything good, give us what was promised from world bosses years ago and have the Gathering system integrated into harvesting boss materials.
If the crafting and PvX systems aren’t interconnected anymore, then that’s a big chunk of my personal appeal to Ashes gone.
Caeryl
2
Re: Is there a problem for solo players
I can ignore progression and PvP and Risk v Reward equally well on any server/Realm.bloodprophet wrote: »With how the world is laid out and the servers each server will be different. Some maybe more to your liking then you and Dygz can hang out pick flowers and do Shakespeare in the park.
But, I'm only hanging out because friends I've made on the Forums want me to hang out in game with them.
Carebears won't truly be playing Ashes. There are plenty of other games to play for those who are not in Steven's target audience: Gamers who enjoy EvE, ArcheAge, Lineage 2, Albion.
Dygz
1
Re: Quantity of Abilities
DerToastinator wrote: »In my opinion, anything less than 15 is not enough.
Having played ESO and GW2, that limit your number of abilities, I can only say that it's just not fun at all. I didn't like being limited by the game in that way, at all. You end up having 2-3 main abilities that you spam all the time, with the rest just acting as additional stuff you throw in between depending on situation.
i see you. it can be boring. Although i think its more often that the enemy design is so boring that you dont have anything to do but press your rotation in the right order to stay engaged. I think the enemies play a big roll in making the combat engaging and then you have to see how many or how less diffrent abilities the player can handle without beeing overwelmed or bored.
Im absolutely with you on the talent tree pathing.
However i think they should watch out not to hide other abilities behind one path. I think it just feels bad if you dont like the path but love the ability.
i wasnt comparing them, i was showing of that you can have engaging combat systems with few abilities. I even acknowleged that 4 ablities wouldnt work at all for an mmo^^ V- Rising was my first example and it is very much comparable with an MMO. Yet again, they have very engaging enemy types!
If you want an MMO specific example... Albion Online has 9 Abilities i think and 10k players on the steam servers. It cant be that boring. What im trying to say is, engagement has more to it than more abilityes = less boredom because more to press. Its a tapestry of enemy and ability design. sure, throwing a fireball 20 times a minute just to do dmg is boring. having a fireball every 10 sec that pushes an enemy away from the blast is intresting!
I KNOW you cant fully translate such concepts from other games. That doesnt mean we cant learn from them.
Yep, I guess I'll have to further explain my point later when I get home.
Even Albion Online with 9 abilities is not enough for me. It's not that it's boring, LoL isn't boring with 4 abilities, but it's something that I dislike, and I'll just have to think about it for a little bit to tell you what that exactly is.
And I do agree with your point about engagement and mob design having an impact on this.
We absolutely can learn from other games, LoL is actually great as an example of how to design certain abilities, focused around a certain theme. Also it's a good example for ability design in general, in terms of their mechanics.
iccer
1
Re: Quantity of Abilities
Ah, yeah, I did forget to account for that...
12 is not enough in a game with a lot of CC 'bloat' since you need more buttons for extra CC and CC breaks, so my answer is only relative to my preferred game type where there isn't as much CC or where only certain classes have considerable amounts of it and then have less other abilities.
Exactly.
But also at the same time, 15 would be my bottom limit in that case.
From my experience in Guild Wars 2, a game that also emphasizes skill selection and tactical use, having a more streamlined set of abilities can lead to much deeper and more satisfying gameplay. In GW2, each profession has access to a limited number of skills at any given time, but the depth comes from how those abilities interact with each other and with the environment. The simplicity allows for more focus on strategy, positioning, and timing, rather than just juggling an extensive rotation of abilities.
It's funny, because I had the exact opposite feeling, where it wasn't as satisfying and fun to play, due to being limited in your choice of abilities (especially when they're bound to the weapon selection). I always felt like I needed a few more abilities on my bar. (That could also be due to weapon swap mechanic, ESO had the same problem for me). I'd much rather have all abilities visible and available, rather than swapping through different weapons/skill bars.
With an open-world PvP game like Ashes will be, strategy, positioning, and timing will absolutely play a key part, and you won't just be juggling your abilities like a rotation in PvE raids.
iccer
1
Re: Quantity of Abilities
20 slots on the Hotbar.
Keep in mind that Active Skills can have Augments applied to them.
There are also Weapon Skills.
(And Passive Skills)
How many hotbars will we have? Do you know?
Re: Quantity of Abilities
scottstone7 wrote: »Sorry, I'm a bit confused. Is this not similar if not nearly exactly what is currently planned? Limited number of slots on hot bar, not the 12 you are suggesting but 15-20 isn't bad. Limited skill points available as you level to specialize the abilities you want to customize your character identity and play style. I'm honestly not trying to be rude or dismissive here, I just don't see enough of a difference to be a problem.
If it's the number of keys one has easy access to use during game play, that's down the the personal preference for hardware of said person. I use a 20ish year old mechanical steelseries merc gamer keyboard on my gaming computer, not sure off the top of my head, I think something like 27 common game keys within easy reach not counting movement keys? I've seen people using gamer pads with more than that.
Looking it up... classes with have 20 abilities thats not allot.
Re: Quantity of Abilities
20 slots on the Hotbar.
Keep in mind that Active Skills can have Augments applied to them.
There are also Weapon Skills.
(And Passive Skills)
Keep in mind that Active Skills can have Augments applied to them.
There are also Weapon Skills.
(And Passive Skills)
Dygz
1
Re: Is there a problem for solo players
You can talk a lot the entire day, but you have to define it and write it down.Ludullu_(NiKr) wrote: »How much can they change when every other showcase it's being repeated over and over "this game is not for everyone", "not everyone is a winner in Ashes", "this is an open world pvp game", "only 20% of content is instanced, and majority of that is story-based stuff".
Not every player out there is hyped from AoC, not fully engaged, not fully informed.
If you land on the website, the first slogan is:
"Experience an MMORPG where everything is permanently impacted by your actions – explore, trade, build, and let the world take form."
Or like this?
"Our world structure is dynamic, and built to react to your actions. Cities will rise and fall as you shape the world of Verra. Quests and secrets will unlock as populations gather and their needs grow."
So, so dynamic world (like in 10 other MMOs, cool!) and cool pve questing and secrets (right, exploring! So I wil find treasure chests like in The Witcher Fantasy RPGs, cool!).
The current showcase leads to - correct, PvE content.
All of these points WILL appeal to the (modern) mmo players, independent if the are old-fashioned or modern.
That's what is written and seen on the official webpage.
Perhaps communication, marketing and written statements and slogans should be more precise, more honest and more transparent.
What about...
"Experience an elitist MMORPG where everything is permanently competitive by your actions – invest your time, get stronger, defeat other players and let the world burn in hardcore pvp battles."
Wouldn't this slogan adressing something completely different than exploring, trading and building?
Wouldn't this attract the real target audience to the game and leave out all the others, immediately?
Is this game for casual players, so players that cannot invest 10h per day?
Answer that question within Q&A on the webpage. That's what potential players want to know. It's the core for the attracted veterans, because a veteran means it's no child or teenager, right? Time quota is different for them, but they are NOT the target group at all.
Make clear, as a company and developer, to put your messages right: It's challenging content, but also time consuming one (or not - whatever fits). Can you play 1h in the evening a challenging conent? Of course you can - I did that in WoW over years. It's called arena or mythic dungeons. Time and skill are not absolutely the same aspects, you can be a casual (in time) but veteran (in skill). It also can be de other way: Lot of time but no skill. That's also ok, no offense meant. In large scale pvp games this is more important then skill, because your individual skill is not weightend that much in a 200 vs 200 fight, but it is in a 3v3 fight (which can be done in 5 to 10 minutes).
Are caravans running around for 1h, 2h, 8 hours? How long will a siege take - provide a forecast, Steven for sure has an idea on that (talking "prime time"). And that's one of the main questions for million players out there. Can I play this game in a meaningful way without decreasing my real life because I'm called from a developer that wants to design a game for MMO guys that play these games since decades - so guys that are, alrgiht, decades older nowadays. How can an avarage player, which is listening to that vision and call, play 5h (?) caravan gameplay? 8h sieges?
Of course Stevan and the rest doesn't want to state this truth, because he needs to attract players. He says "it's not for everybody", but he talks to everybody and want to attract everybody - otherwise the statements must be completely different.
If Ashes is a hardcore pvp elitist game surrounding about the wet dream of only having group and raid fights all over the day, then write it down, be transparent, define the target group.
Communicate it that way. Don't talk about "we have maces in our game" for 25min during an August developer stream, but provide statements, in written form, officially on the website, that say something like:
- This is a hardcore group-based pvp game
- This is no MMO for players that prefer and like solo content or rewarding and meaningful content to be done without groups or guilds
- This is a game which needs your highest time investment to get rewards, otherwise you will fall back and thats intented design, because we don't want you to get everything if you are not fully engaged in the game
- This game will not focus on social playing together but fully on fighting against each other and get your fun out of this - the regression of your enemy player is your progression!
- In this game other players will be able to loot certain parts of your loot after killing you so your character will have regression and thats intended design
- In this game you can attack every player at nearly every time, no player can disable this to secure his gameplay
Just examples, it's not my point that all those message are precise, but I'm convinced you got the message.
Then it will NOT appeal to (modern) MMO players. Then it will ONLY appeal to a very, very, very minor playerbase that like this "design".
Write it down. Put it on the website. On the landing page. Get 5 bullet points over there that adress precicsly what game it wants to be and which target group should play it.
No? That's too transparent? Too honest? Too risky? Well, more risk, more reward - right? It would make sure, within a very short time, that only the same players within the same bubble will talk about their MMO without having to discuss other, differentiated feedback with other, more experienced MMO players. Would save some nerves I guess.
Clear statements, transparent communication, clear target audience and thus all those players can, within their bubble and experience out of 2-3 MMOs, talk about design patterns and pillars of a game that advantage elistist players, frequent players and hardcore players, investing 10 hours every day, terminating every other player as identified as bad randoms and enemies, increasing toxic behaviour, envy and resentment because every design, in the end, leads to the situation, that once player or group is getting rewarded due to the loss and defeat of another. Progress for one player means regression for another. And this will only work and will only be accepted by a very, very special target group with very very special mindset and behaviour when it comes to computer games and having fun by playing them by harming other players for the own entertainment.
Ok, this has nothing to do with the topic at all but I'm shocked and that's a pity.$100 for me is a full month of living.
100 Dollar are ~90 Euros. With 90 Euros I'm not surving one day with my family (middle europe). That's a small shopping for general food and some drinks/water.
So, 90 Euros for such a key is like a tiny tiny percentage of ... well, let's stop here, that's not the topic, but if talking about "MMO veterans" I'm convinced that 90 Euros / 100 Dollars are just meaning nothing, this target group (although meanwhile we know: The target group seems to be somewhere else, right?) doestn't care about this peanuts.
To be sure: That's not important or valid for me, I've played on pvp servers (in WoW) so I've got all the big punches there and I'm not afraid of pk-ing and pvp-ing in small and big scale. Additionally I'm a bit pre-informed about AoC (but not satisfied with some aspects, like too time consuming content, like no meaningful possibility to get some stuff done alone/solo if just no group is desired for a 1-2h gameplay on some Sunday evening - but still I'm patient and wait what testing, feedback and future changes/solutions will show so still give it a try), but it's about the general communication and general design of different content areas that firstly seems to attract MMO veterans but after an in depth look you get the truth out of all these social hostile mechanics and way to time-consuming mechanics (which doesn't suit to aged MMO veterans but teenagers, students and, yes, let's talk about it, unemployed players) and that will be misleading for a lot of players also in the future. So: State it right and honest, otherwise - as you've already said - this threads will be there for the next 10 years, because that's what players expect - variety, choice, diversity and of course they will compare with other MMOs out there but inevitably not with only 1 or 2 of them.
Chaliux
4
Re: Quantity of Abilities
Ah, yeah, I did forget to account for that...
12 is not enough in a game with a lot of CC 'bloat' since you need more buttons for extra CC and CC breaks, so my answer is only relative to my preferred game type where there isn't as much CC or where only certain classes have considerable amounts of it and then have less other abilities.
12 is not enough in a game with a lot of CC 'bloat' since you need more buttons for extra CC and CC breaks, so my answer is only relative to my preferred game type where there isn't as much CC or where only certain classes have considerable amounts of it and then have less other abilities.
Azherae
1