Best Of
Re: What happens if I do this? explooooit? 😎
I imagine there's gonna be a lot of shenanigans with these mechanics. I'm defiantly gonna try cramming caravans into whatever I can find to see if I can make them glitch out and go flying. I did it with a boat in Alpha 1 and was having a blast.
Apok
2
Quantity of Abilities
Greetings,
How many abilities do you want/need?
Let me elaborate:
In AoC we have the weapon attack, a block and a dodge roll baked into every character. This means 3 buttons are already allocated to specific tasks during combat.
This leaves us with less buttons on the keyboard that in WoW for example to key-bind abilities.
(Given that you are not a tank, you might unbind block to free up a space.)
We also have a sprint option that most likely takes up ctrl or shift. Cutting down 1/3rd of the usual hot-binds (example shift + 4)
The most comfortable to reach keys are… E, Q, R, F, C, V, X, Y, 1 to 5 (maby 6). Honorable mention to T, G and B, but B is for Bags change my mind
We have 13 confortable to reach keys and 3 are taken, leaving us with 10. Multiplied by 2 for the shift or ctrl keys makes 20 comfortably usable slots.
Ashes have stated that macros are not intended to be necessary to have a coherent rotation.
The weapon attack is supposed to be your filler ability, and it has benefits to finish a combo to get effects (as shown in the ranger update)
All this makes me think that the rotation and situational cooldowns in AoC should not be as convoluted and that less is more when it comes to abilities.
I think you should be able to decide what abilities fit your playstyle and only be able to choose or talent in a select number of abilities. This would cut down on rotation bloat, refine your character identity and lead to interesting choices along the way.
(Example Ranger: do I choose to specialize into barrage and be mobile while shooting, or choose to talent the stationary snipe for big dmg, but must have a snare in my kit to keep distance? Or try to have both but lack in another department)
I solemnly believe this would bring out YOUR identity.
It also ensures not every class will feel the same, because you cannot take everything and might need others to help elevate your weakspots, when facing tougher foes.
Less abilities also means that 1. your weapon specialisation tree with its combo system has time to shine and 2. every ability press is deliberate and has weight to it. No longer are you mindlessly pressing a rotation, you are choosing to use your CC or heal-cut. You will still have press on CD abilities, but maby you speced into a bleed and can proudly say you have 100% uptime on it on enemies whereas another player can’t, but he can bleed multiple enemies at once.
For those who say, but MMOs need many abilities to be interesting I say, we have seen so many interesting combat systems with way less. V-Rising (6), League (4 + summoners and items), Overwatch (3 + ult) those are the most prominent that come to mind.
And I don’t want AoC to have only 4 abilities per character!
I just want the experience to be streamlined by the talent choices the player makes.
I think a Player should realistically only have to use and spec into 12 abilities out of all the abilities he is presented. That’s enough for 2 rotational spells, an AoE, mobility, def CD, dmg amp spell, CC, interrupt, heal and an ultimate (like the bard and warrior had) throw in 2 buffs/utility and you are done.
That’s a fairly good distribution, and if you want to have more of something, you now have a choice to make.
There would have to be restrictions on how many of one you can take (CC-bot prevention).
Using less of the confortable to use keys opens them up for other things too, like C for Character window.
How many abilities do you want/need?
Let me elaborate:
In AoC we have the weapon attack, a block and a dodge roll baked into every character. This means 3 buttons are already allocated to specific tasks during combat.
This leaves us with less buttons on the keyboard that in WoW for example to key-bind abilities.
(Given that you are not a tank, you might unbind block to free up a space.)
We also have a sprint option that most likely takes up ctrl or shift. Cutting down 1/3rd of the usual hot-binds (example shift + 4)
The most comfortable to reach keys are… E, Q, R, F, C, V, X, Y, 1 to 5 (maby 6). Honorable mention to T, G and B, but B is for Bags change my mind
We have 13 confortable to reach keys and 3 are taken, leaving us with 10. Multiplied by 2 for the shift or ctrl keys makes 20 comfortably usable slots.
Ashes have stated that macros are not intended to be necessary to have a coherent rotation.
The weapon attack is supposed to be your filler ability, and it has benefits to finish a combo to get effects (as shown in the ranger update)
All this makes me think that the rotation and situational cooldowns in AoC should not be as convoluted and that less is more when it comes to abilities.
I think you should be able to decide what abilities fit your playstyle and only be able to choose or talent in a select number of abilities. This would cut down on rotation bloat, refine your character identity and lead to interesting choices along the way.
(Example Ranger: do I choose to specialize into barrage and be mobile while shooting, or choose to talent the stationary snipe for big dmg, but must have a snare in my kit to keep distance? Or try to have both but lack in another department)
I solemnly believe this would bring out YOUR identity.
It also ensures not every class will feel the same, because you cannot take everything and might need others to help elevate your weakspots, when facing tougher foes.
Less abilities also means that 1. your weapon specialisation tree with its combo system has time to shine and 2. every ability press is deliberate and has weight to it. No longer are you mindlessly pressing a rotation, you are choosing to use your CC or heal-cut. You will still have press on CD abilities, but maby you speced into a bleed and can proudly say you have 100% uptime on it on enemies whereas another player can’t, but he can bleed multiple enemies at once.
For those who say, but MMOs need many abilities to be interesting I say, we have seen so many interesting combat systems with way less. V-Rising (6), League (4 + summoners and items), Overwatch (3 + ult) those are the most prominent that come to mind.
And I don’t want AoC to have only 4 abilities per character!
I just want the experience to be streamlined by the talent choices the player makes.
I think a Player should realistically only have to use and spec into 12 abilities out of all the abilities he is presented. That’s enough for 2 rotational spells, an AoE, mobility, def CD, dmg amp spell, CC, interrupt, heal and an ultimate (like the bard and warrior had) throw in 2 buffs/utility and you are done.
That’s a fairly good distribution, and if you want to have more of something, you now have a choice to make.
There would have to be restrictions on how many of one you can take (CC-bot prevention).
Using less of the confortable to use keys opens them up for other things too, like C for Character window.
Re: 📝 Dev Discussion #67 - AoE Form and Function 💣
PVE: be mindful of people farming mobs with AoEs (or range) and avoiding damage. Figure out a way to make sure mobs do not give credit/loot/xp if they are unable to attack their aggressor.
PVP: Please restrict beneficial AoEs to players who are GROUPED.
Similarly, damage AoE should hit ALL pvp engaged targets (not grouped) unless specifically designed to hit a limited number of targets.
AoE abilities should not be “smart” and ignore allies/guildmates who are part of the zerg but not part of the group.
Good AoE design can be an antizerg mechanic and allow smaller, more organized, groups to “punch up”.
PVP: Please restrict beneficial AoEs to players who are GROUPED.
Similarly, damage AoE should hit ALL pvp engaged targets (not grouped) unless specifically designed to hit a limited number of targets.
AoE abilities should not be “smart” and ignore allies/guildmates who are part of the zerg but not part of the group.
Good AoE design can be an antizerg mechanic and allow smaller, more organized, groups to “punch up”.
Kegger
1
Re: General armour stat idea
Ludullu_(NiKr) wrote: »So armor would not be included in the mitigation calculations? Or just this part of armor effects wouldn't be? Feels kinda weird to me.It does between 65% and 100% of your max hp post mitigation. Which type you use would be based on the damage you receive most often. Plate would most certainly not be very useful against a dot for example
And dots are way more easily healed, so having armor that makes healing one-shots easier would just mean that clerics have a way easier job keeping plated people alive, which, to me, screams "meta".
Obviously would have to be tested to know for sure, but that's just the first thing that stands out in this kind of design.
Post mitigation outside of that stat alone - the armor would still provide all of its normal stats which are included in the post mitigation calculation.
Perhaps it would create too strong of an armor correlation to certain bosses as well. You may be right tbh im unsure, it was just an idea for a potential stat type.
Voxtrium
1
Re: [EU] Nephilim [PVX] [18+] [Semi Hardcore] [Competitive] [Close Knit Community]
The feeling of community that this guild gives me is reminiscent of rusty spoons against my salad fingers. Great blessings upon you good people, for you have found the chosen ones.
What happens if I do this? explooooit? 😎
Based on the videos I've seen, it appears that caravans are solid, as in characters do not clip through them.
So what would happen if players decided to use caravans to physically block narrow entrances, exits or other choke points? Would this not force PVP or deal with being blocked for ages?
Do monsters clip through them? Or could you use numerous parked caravans to make a maze and turn the game into tower defense? like imagine a boss type running back and forth in a maze of caravans..
Can't wait to get my hands on the game and test these things. 😎
So what would happen if players decided to use caravans to physically block narrow entrances, exits or other choke points? Would this not force PVP or deal with being blocked for ages?
Do monsters clip through them? Or could you use numerous parked caravans to make a maze and turn the game into tower defense? like imagine a boss type running back and forth in a maze of caravans..
Can't wait to get my hands on the game and test these things. 😎
Re: Where is the progress
I think it's telling that you're asking to see polished quests and polished biomes - when clearly, the main reason for all the delays you're complaining is Intrepid investing too much into polish of individual aspects in order not to upset people like you.
Like, what you want more of is literally the reason why the game isn't closer to completion.
If anything I want them to focus more on general structures that we can't see. Get the mechanics solid enough to be genuinely fully thought-out and flexible.
To be clear, I don't think it's terrible that they've focused on completing individual designs/encounters/areas, or even that you're asking to see more of it. It's a useful step for practical testing to see if the modules really come together the way it's imagined, before committing to generalisation/mass-production based on potentially flawed blueprints.
But once that's confirmed, I want them to get the modular components so right that they can start implementing versatile, story-arc-adjustable quests/encounters/contested areas/node development features all over the map, and just have them work. And that requires a focus on more abstraction and perfection of the behind-the-scenes components, not a convincing, presentable delivery of individual playable segments.
its crazy that everyone seems to find a need to attack someone's character instead of just giving your opinions, however i do appreciate the time you took to reply, obviously the delays are frustrating but i have not once complained about a delay in this post, i think you have some good points, however i think at this stage 8 years in a little polish is not alot to ask, if you did take the time to read what i wrote, i am not saying i need to see an entire polished node or game, but i would like to see hints of polish being added, especially to the starting area's just to confirm that its not going to be scrapped again
i agree with you that there are more important aspects than polish but as of the time of writing, we have not really seen any of them either, so i mean if we are not going to see nodes past level 3, ( keep in mind there are 85 nodes and we have yet to see one past level 3 ), we have not seen naval content, secondaries, monster coins, systems like bounty hunting, we have seen 6/64 classes, we have not seen biomes, or races in any sort of finished state, its a long list, and seeing a dragon that is the exact same as 3 years ago with almost nothing new is not adding polish to please people like me, and i can almost guarantee that world boss that was copy and pasted from A1 contributed next to nothing to the recent delays.
Chicago
1
Re: Quantity of Abilities
Most people play tab-target/locked-target style MMOs wrong, and as a result they don't realise how amazing games with high numbers of abilities can be.
In my superior opinion as someone who grew up playing MMOs on a laptop (the closeness of trackpads to the keyboard and the way trackpads accept inputs from anywhere regardless of where you left it after the last movement make trackpads absolute god-tier for locked-target games):
The objectively superior way to bind your keys is to use 1-6 for fast-trigger abilities, 7-0 (or beyond) for buffs and abilities that are okay to not have your hand on your mouse for, and then reuse those keys not with Shift or Alt, but by swapping out your primary active skill bar with F1-F4.
The resulting gameplay is elegantly fluid, you have up to 24 fast-trigger skill buttons readily available, 16-24 slow skill buttons, and crucially, the entire rest of your keyboard is left for menuing and character movement reactions like dodge rolls, block, autoattack, etc.
The second-best way of playing MMOs if using F1-F4 is too much brainwork for you is to use an MMO mouse with 12 clearly labeled buttons to bind, and then using some of those buttons for swapping the active skill bar.
Unfortunately, not enough MMOs either have been designed to allow changing the active skill bar, or they don't allow more than 2-3 bars on a character. Massive design oversight.
If more people experienced MMOs in either of these two playstyles, I guarantee there would be MUCH more appreciation for games with a high number of abilities.
More on the benefits of high abilities for the appeal of the combat itself in my thread on the subject.
In my superior opinion as someone who grew up playing MMOs on a laptop (the closeness of trackpads to the keyboard and the way trackpads accept inputs from anywhere regardless of where you left it after the last movement make trackpads absolute god-tier for locked-target games):
The objectively superior way to bind your keys is to use 1-6 for fast-trigger abilities, 7-0 (or beyond) for buffs and abilities that are okay to not have your hand on your mouse for, and then reuse those keys not with Shift or Alt, but by swapping out your primary active skill bar with F1-F4.
The resulting gameplay is elegantly fluid, you have up to 24 fast-trigger skill buttons readily available, 16-24 slow skill buttons, and crucially, the entire rest of your keyboard is left for menuing and character movement reactions like dodge rolls, block, autoattack, etc.
The second-best way of playing MMOs if using F1-F4 is too much brainwork for you is to use an MMO mouse with 12 clearly labeled buttons to bind, and then using some of those buttons for swapping the active skill bar.
Unfortunately, not enough MMOs either have been designed to allow changing the active skill bar, or they don't allow more than 2-3 bars on a character. Massive design oversight.
If more people experienced MMOs in either of these two playstyles, I guarantee there would be MUCH more appreciation for games with a high number of abilities.
More on the benefits of high abilities for the appeal of the combat itself in my thread on the subject.
That's probably the only subject we're ever going to agree on.AirborneBerserker wrote: »As for the number of abilities that's a hard no. The reason you want more abilities is to prevent rotations becoming stale early on. if you spend 30 levels using the same rotation your going to get board. Also the heavy emphasis on PvP means you want some utility abilities to be able to deal with unexpected situations.
The amount of abilities should be based on the class you're playing more then anything. Look at the difference wow has between the classes. At level 30 Shamans have like 35 abilities, Rouges have like 5 at the same level.
Re: Quantity of Abilities
@Noaani
That's fine by me!
6 abilities is to less for me too
You are very right by saying the preferences differ a lot.
Its nice to see so many of you responding in a well thought out manner!
@Laetitian
"In my superior opinion..." is pure gold.
Love it
That's fine by me!
6 abilities is to less for me too
You are very right by saying the preferences differ a lot.
Its nice to see so many of you responding in a well thought out manner!
@Laetitian
"In my superior opinion..." is pure gold.
Love it