Best Of
Re: Player enemy visual Health Bar update on hit.
I can't tell from the wording of this post whether you're aware how much of a deeply discussed issue this is, so for reference:
https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/discussion/comment/445067#Comment_445067
https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/discussion/59581/target-player-health-indicator/p1
(Both arguments for "no health bar" and "only restricted information accuracy on health bar" are brought up in most of these threads; there are several more of that kind.)
https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/discussion/comment/445067#Comment_445067
https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/discussion/59581/target-player-health-indicator/p1
(Both arguments for "no health bar" and "only restricted information accuracy on health bar" are brought up in most of these threads; there are several more of that kind.)
Re: Player enemy visual Health Bar update on hit.
Seems fine and suits the purposes of the game without making it too difficult to know what’s going on in a fight.
Having no health bars would be dumb as hell.
Having no health bars would be dumb as hell.
Caeryl
6
Re: Enemy Health bars in PVP and the UI setup in the January AoC livestream.
Nah, making myself weaker against other people through UI is not a thing I'd want, cause I will already be doing that by mostly being alone or a casual.If given the option, would you toggle off enemy health bars for yourself?
Ludullu
1
Player enemy visual Health Bar update on hit.
I don't know if this was discussed or not, or how many noticed this. How do you guys feel about how the current health bar updates for player enemy when they take dmg?
There are 4 bars for the total health of a player enemy, now let's say enemy total health is 18k, that's like 4.5k per bar.
So, while you do dmg to the player enemy, and you see your skills popping up numbers on hit, you have no idea if the dmg was registered or not, as the health bar doesn't move, unless you do more dmg than what a hp bar has.
The way in which health updates is by health bars, and not by each hit you do to the player. So this is really confusing in pvp, as the health bar is not moving, and it will only update visually if you/others total dmg hits is more than what a hp bar has (in this case 4.5k a bar) . Only then it will consume the bar and go to the next one, with another 4.5k, from the total 18k.
This example was for a enemy with18k health/4.5k a bar.
Is this a good health bar display mechanic for pvp?
I rather see no bar than this confusing visual health mechanic, or just have the classic health bar update on dmg taken per hit.
There are 4 bars for the total health of a player enemy, now let's say enemy total health is 18k, that's like 4.5k per bar.
So, while you do dmg to the player enemy, and you see your skills popping up numbers on hit, you have no idea if the dmg was registered or not, as the health bar doesn't move, unless you do more dmg than what a hp bar has.
The way in which health updates is by health bars, and not by each hit you do to the player. So this is really confusing in pvp, as the health bar is not moving, and it will only update visually if you/others total dmg hits is more than what a hp bar has (in this case 4.5k a bar) . Only then it will consume the bar and go to the next one, with another 4.5k, from the total 18k.
This example was for a enemy with18k health/4.5k a bar.
Is this a good health bar display mechanic for pvp?
I rather see no bar than this confusing visual health mechanic, or just have the classic health bar update on dmg taken per hit.
Syblitrh
5
Re: Loot System Changes
You should be saying that they are not fun TO YOU. And then others can agree or disagree with your opinion.Infighting in guilds is not ‘fun’. In no game is it ever ‘fun’ to watch people who used to be friends at each other’s throats about a video game. Guild politics are the least appealing portion of any social game. Conflict in a group game is meant to happen between out-groups, not within the group that’s supposed to be your closest chosen allies.
Because all those things are quite interesting TO ME, and to others as well.
Also, as has been said several times now, there's quite a few people out there that do not see the current loot rules as "abusive". They see them as communal, so when their comune gets a loot - they're happy for it.
Ludullu
2
Re: Loot System Changes
If assignment of all loot is part of that, then there should also be mechanics to raid your own guild’s vaults. That would make it consistent.
This game is in no way consistent though.
I've been saying for years that the game contradicts itself often.
I'm not saying you're wrongor anything here, it just isn't what Ashes as a game is being designed to be (from my perspective).
Noaani
1
Re: Is there a problem for solo players
AirborneBerserker wrote: »AirborneBerserker wrote: »Here's the rest of that list:
- gathering
- caravans and highwayman system
- battlegrounds/arenas
- mob farming in general
- instanced housing
- some level of crafting and processing
- open world events
- questing
- participating in the economy, selling stuff on the AH, making money
Right away I'm going to knock off Questing and Mob farming, If I just spent 300 hours doing that then I'm not going to want to do more of that at max level, yes at some point I will probably do more quests but I'm coming at this as a fresh max level character.
So here are the problems, Gathering will be highly curtailed due to all the top end gear being crafted and needing mats to be repaired.
Caravans and battle grounds are the same system and I'm not interested in getting involved in one sided battles that will be lost quickly. I'm also not interested in destroying things other people have made. If they have instanced versions that are more geared towards balance I will probably see how much I like them.
Arenas I will probably do if they look any good, which they don't right now. 1v1 is a literal lottery where the person that gets their hard counter the least wins. 2v2 and 3v3 will be comp dominated, the lowest you could go and hope to get any kind of skill based grading which is more skill then luck would be 4v4. Not something you want to do with out getting some kind of gear first though.
I have a real house I don't care about a fake one.
Yes assuming I'm able to get the materials.
Open world events, maybe. Problem is if the rewards are too good, then I'm just a guy standing there with some good rewards and one click away from them having it. Again most of you have a completely different mind state then I do.
While I'm sure some people love to play the market it's really not my thing.Ludullu_(NiKr) wrote: »Yep, this. As I have been saying, as long as solos don't expect to farm raids and magically get good rewards out of that - there's plenty of stuff to do in the game.It's only up to you whether you think the things I've listed are enough, or if you want some more content for solo players.
Gameplay should not all be equally valuable, especially when the person themselves realizes that they're not in peak form or do not want to participate in activities that would represent peak in-game performance.
I agree with everything except the plenty to do. There are avenues that aren't covered. In particular PvP.
I mean, the logical conclusion here is that this game isn't for you, or others like you.
You have been presented with the options the game offers, and said you basically don't like any of them. If you don't like what this game has to offer, why are you paying it any attention?
See you say that but the game is doing 99% of what I want it to do, and the 1% isn't unreasonable for a PvP game to have.
The game isn't offering you any content that you want.
That is 99% of what a game needs to do.
So, the game is doing 1% of what you want, not 99%.
If this game was doing 99% of what you want (I am somewhat suspect about your knowledge of how percent works), you wouldn't need to be here asking if there is a problem for your gameplay style.
Noaani
1
Re: [Feedback Request] Alpha Two Citadel of the Steel Bloom & Firebrand Preview | August Livestream
Leaving feedback on the 7th page feels like it may take a back seat, but this is some of the first I'm leaving so I'm hoping it'll get looked at!
The environment is looking very good, the bloom and dust is a bit overkill, but other than that everything is looking great and really drives home that appeal.
The AI bosses just standing there seems a bit dated, having them have a larger aggro range or just immediately go into combat upon spawning would feel much more enticing. Make sure you have everything ready to go before moving on.
With epic battles/raids like dragons (and who knows what else in the future), there should be a world wide change that happens, so everyone knows that a big fight has started. Whether its the skybox changing colors, alarms or callings that start happening in cities, or quaking and rumbling with giant roars you hear in the distance. It's moments like this that make everyone remember something from when they first started playing the game. A wow factor of the unknown and what is that!?
The dragon itself looked great, the fire looked great, the AOE indicators were a bit lacking, but if you're going for hard mode, then that's fine, but the fire on the ground was REALLY hard to see (but maybe that was just a stream issue). A bit more work on the animations, and I think it'll be set and good to go! Maybe a few more team based triggers would be fun, big bosses should have phases they go through as they get more desperate to survive making them harder as the battle goes on. Usually at the 50% and 25% mark and maybe even the last 5% for that added struggle, dragons are old, smart and WANT to live, they usually don't fight to the death.
Some of the early bosses should have many mechanics that help introduce the players to more difficult mechanics in the later stages of the game. Things that require immediate team work, attention to focusing single (or multiple) objects down within a time limit, otherwise large damage is incurred or someone from the party gets wiped. Seemed like resurrections were a bit much, the cooldown on those should be like 5-10 minutes so that way they aren't spammed that often and feel impactful when you have to use it.
More difficult high damage fights or things to keep people active vs HP sponges are much more engaging these days. Having to dodge, block and counter heal high damage hits makes big battles feel like you're in a struggle to survive, or endless low level mobs spawning where it gives that feelsgood boost of just laying into hundreds of mobs over a short period of time.
The environment is looking very good, the bloom and dust is a bit overkill, but other than that everything is looking great and really drives home that appeal.
The AI bosses just standing there seems a bit dated, having them have a larger aggro range or just immediately go into combat upon spawning would feel much more enticing. Make sure you have everything ready to go before moving on.
With epic battles/raids like dragons (and who knows what else in the future), there should be a world wide change that happens, so everyone knows that a big fight has started. Whether its the skybox changing colors, alarms or callings that start happening in cities, or quaking and rumbling with giant roars you hear in the distance. It's moments like this that make everyone remember something from when they first started playing the game. A wow factor of the unknown and what is that!?
The dragon itself looked great, the fire looked great, the AOE indicators were a bit lacking, but if you're going for hard mode, then that's fine, but the fire on the ground was REALLY hard to see (but maybe that was just a stream issue). A bit more work on the animations, and I think it'll be set and good to go! Maybe a few more team based triggers would be fun, big bosses should have phases they go through as they get more desperate to survive making them harder as the battle goes on. Usually at the 50% and 25% mark and maybe even the last 5% for that added struggle, dragons are old, smart and WANT to live, they usually don't fight to the death.
Some of the early bosses should have many mechanics that help introduce the players to more difficult mechanics in the later stages of the game. Things that require immediate team work, attention to focusing single (or multiple) objects down within a time limit, otherwise large damage is incurred or someone from the party gets wiped. Seemed like resurrections were a bit much, the cooldown on those should be like 5-10 minutes so that way they aren't spammed that often and feel impactful when you have to use it.
More difficult high damage fights or things to keep people active vs HP sponges are much more engaging these days. Having to dodge, block and counter heal high damage hits makes big battles feel like you're in a struggle to survive, or endless low level mobs spawning where it gives that feelsgood boost of just laying into hundreds of mobs over a short period of time.
Re: Quantity of Abilities
If you have 12 abilities, 4 of them are buffs, and you save 2 of them for crucial counters, you're not using a lot of abilities to do things.
Buffs can be baked into abilities in my opinion.
If you have a deliberate buff ability it should be an impcatfull one.
Casing a thorny shield in WoW fells boring, it barely makes a scratch in dps, but if you wana be optimal you should have it up, right? Its free dmg after all and every bit counts. I hate to bring up LoL again (and i dont like rammus) but casting his selfbuff that hurts the enemy for autoatacking him does define a playstyle and in return you do meaningfull dmg.
A character that has one of his fewer abilities allocated to be very good against one thing, but lacks in another, has to think about his approach to situations. Or think about how to eliminate his weakness in other ways. Gear, consumables, ect.
If he had a anti magic shield there would be no such thought process.
That's one of the reason i advocate for less abilities.
If you have many abilities you start to ether see every class become the same due to having an answer to everything, or you see more and more conviluted mechanics come up so some classes have a lack in some department wich then justifies having so many abilities.
More abilities = More thinking about what to do against your particular opponent. You actually interact. A different half of your skill bars might never see use in each different scenario, and every time you run into a new scenario, you have to make a new decision about which abilities those should be.
Fewer abilities = Repeating the same rotation against everyone with minor adjustments of the order and which abilities you hold back for counters a little longer than others.
Well, yes but actually no. With many abilities you have many counter strategies and have to think of what to use, yes.
With fewer abilities you might not even have an answer for a specific scenario and have to get creative. Enemy casts a fear... do i break LoS? ...can i get out of range? ...do i use that item i got earlyer to interrupt him?.......... do i bring a guildy next time that knows a fear ward?
You start to think outside the box that are your abilities.
How many trinkets with intresting effects have i thrown away in my lifetime, because i had an ability that did the same job on a shorter cooldown? How many crafted items are disregarded because you cant fit them in your rotation without loosing dps?
I would LOVE to use those strategies/items, but oh hey i have a fear ward and a cleanse on a 20 sec cd in my kit. That covers his 10 sec cooldown for fear, im good.
Games with fewer abilities are largely about creating the "optimal" build. EVERYTHING becomes about best-in-slot. Best-in-slot gear to support your best-in-slot abilities to repeat over and over again. You barely think about what each individual opponent is doing when it comes to your skill usage; if there's any player interaction in combat, it's mechanical dodging/parrying and saving 1-2 cooldowns for the same ability counters every time.
If you spam the right buttons in the right order, and you play the mechanics minigames, you're the best player.
In games with more abilities, "optimal" is a barely relevant tendency. All that really matters is adjusting to each situation appropriately.
Well, there is BiS gear in every game, and its not like you cant play off-meta builds and be sucsesfull in games that only have a few abilities.
So i dont know what you are on about here. You always are on the lookout for gear that supports your best abilities. Thats what grinding for gear is. You choosing which abilities to specialise in will change what you look for, regardless of how many other abilities you have.
Yes, i agree that you spend less time thinking about your abilities when having less of them. As i mentioned i dont think thats necessary a bad thing. I think there needs to be a ballance on how much you have to think about your abilities to be able to engage with the othe aspects of combat. What good would having a dodge roll be if you don't have time or reason to use it? Same with items, consumables, LoS, racial abilities, or even the other partymembers kit.
I have to repeat myself by saying: Im not advocating to make the game less complex or boring by trimming down abilities. I wana see space for all the other complexeties of an mmo.
And thereby nudging the player to engage with ihe world and "adjust to situations" other than through his abilities.
Re: Loot System Changes
All these proposed "solutions" because some people refuse to take initiative, join a guild, and leave said guild if it doesn't fit their standards.
I can see why you can't find guilds, you're extremely difficult to work with.
What about not wanting easily abused loot systems makes a person hard to work with exactly?
So far no one has had an answer as to why the ‘better’ system is one that has easy and wide reaching abuse potential that ultimately will discourage players from wanting to contest open world PvP bosses, as opposed to a system where the game determines loot allocation, where any ‘abuse’ would be minuscule in scale of affect, and ensures meaningful contributors haven’t wasted their time, effort, and gear degradation they sustained to take on difficult, highly competitive content.
That is not ‘literally every lvl1 who looked at it gets loot’ for those who are still under the warped impression that the choices are either ‘99% of players get shitall’ (because we include the raids that competed and lost) and ‘I get gold just by standing around’.
You have to motivate players to do content and the easiest, fairest way is the have the reward structure handled entirely by the game.
Anything more should not be possible to mandate, and should be something the guild comes together organically to do after the fact. Do need-greed in your group chat, bid in discord, let them swap between each other based on their needs. And for the love of everything good, give us what was promised from world bosses years ago and have the Gathering system integrated into harvesting boss materials.
If the crafting and PvX systems aren’t interconnected anymore, then that’s a big chunk of my personal appeal to Ashes gone.
An "abusive" loot system is part of the game. The relationship between guild members both internal and external is the game. For heroes to exist there must be villains.
You are difficult to work with because you refuse to accept the design of the game and insist that those social hooks are thrown away because you need to feel rewarded.
Players need to be rewarded, that’s the point. You need to have something that makes people want to do the content at risk of gear degradation, exp debt due to death in PvX, time spent, etc, and if you don’t have that carrot at the end of the stick, you’re going to end up with a game that’s lacking a population willing to do that content.
If the goal is 10k players per server, a very hefty goal for a ‘niche’ game, there has to be something keeping players invested in risking their time and resources for what will amount to most often, no reward.
If ‘abuse’ was intended, which I definitely think is a bunch of nonsense, then why aren’t combat meters permitted on the basis of players being abusive with the information?
The reward is helping your friends, your guild, and/or your node. It's a we not a me game. The social bond formed (or broken) through risk is the carrot that motivates players.
This isn't a niche game, it'll have well over a million people playing come launch and if the performance and content is there, the sky is the limit. AoC is the first 3rd person EVE with a large enough budget to actually make that game a reality.
Combat meters are not intended as they disproportionately warp class design and decision into a game of numbers. This ultimately shifts the game into a raid or die model, eliminating what AoC wants to be.
Combat meters do nothing but provide information, which is key if we’re actually going to get ‘only 1% can complete this’ PvE encounters like it was claimed.
Rewards can’t just be ‘feel good vibes’. That does not translate into progress for 90%+ of the entire population engaging in what is supposed to be very highly contested PvX.
I want Ashes to do well, which means it needs a healthy population engaged with content, which means that content needs to be rewarding.
You won’t have those ‘millions of players’ for years past launch if the consistent experience is them getting nothing from successful raids. Why would players stick with it? People play EVE and make actual money off it, it’s also a very stark example of P2W. Ashes isn’t going be like that.
"Vibes" can and do translate for players. Look at any pvp mmo and that's clearly evident. Good examples of this are EVE, Albion, or Darkfall. The gear score = everything mentality is not what this game hopes to achieve.
That doesn't mean there isn't solo content, but for group content the reward is for your group not the individual. People will stick with it because they want to see their group progress.
Once again, we’re not talking about handing out gear to everyone. We’re talking about rewarding people for their time via material drops and other crafting integrated items.
You’re pulling ‘gear scores’ out of nowhere when all that is being asked for is something that ensures actively taking part in content and fighting over it and winning actually has rewards that match all the effort put into it.
You can’t claim abusive loot systems are good for the game, then turn around and also claim players having information of their own fights is bad for the game.
I personally am in favor of high player agency and minimizing the abuse potential of game systems that don’t have a clear mechanical system to retaliate against the offending player(s).
If a guild contests my castle, I can declare a guild war on top of beating them during the siege. If a castle over taxes a node, citizens can attack the tax caravan. There are systems that are meant to cause social conflict, and those that are not.
No one could honestly say that scummy Lootmaster behavior is an intended method of casual conflict, because there is no way for the other party to ‘fight back’. Any system that has you fighting for a scrap of reward within your own allied group is a system that’s not going to last.
You very much have a retaliation against other players; don't play with them. The person who takes all the loot will find themselves without people to help accomplish their goals. You aren't fighting for scraps, you are communally helping your group get better. Again this individualistic mindset isn't the intention for AoCs large group content.
That is not retaliation. That is not an action you can take to balance the scales. That is passivity.
There need to be actual, actionable systems to be engaged with in response to easily abusable loot mechanics, otherwise it’s not an intended source of conflict content because there isn’t any gameplay conflict that can be started in answer.
If guild members had a method to swipe items from guild vaults, then sure, that ‘intended’ argument could hold some water. But as is, there is absolutely nothing for players taken advantage to do to recoup their losses for multiple hours (minimum) of their time.
Someone is gathering in an area you need something from? You can fight over it.
The castle nearby is taxing you ridiculously high? Steal the taxes off the caravan.
One guild keeps driving you away from a dungeon? Flag a guild war on them and declare a siege against their primary node.
Those are all intended systems meant to cause conflict. They all have answers.
Infighting in guilds is not ‘fun’. In no game is it ever ‘fun’ to watch people who used to be friends at each other’s throats about a video game. Guild politics are the least appealing portion of any social game. Conflict in a group game is meant to happen between out-groups, not within the group that’s supposed to be your closest chosen allies.
How is you making a decision to leave a guild passive? How is you joining a rival at war guild of the guild you just left passive? Id think the game holding your hand is more passive, but maybe we have different definitions for active and passive.
Members have the ability to swipe items from guild banks. It's not an instantaneous process, but I've seen many would be members become officers to specifically to screw a guild for a past transgression.
Conflict, both in guild and out of guild, is the point of the game. In fact inter guild conflict is the most important friction point the game can have. Hating a former friend or uniting with a bitter enemy to contest a greater threat is the most emotional kind of conflict. I've seen it in pve games and pvp games, nothing is more satisfying or bitter than crushing or losing to a former friend. The emotion here sustains people playing.
Again for there to be heroes there must be villains.
Edit: also here's a wonderful video illustrating someone being disproportionately upset about loot and creating thousands of hours of content because of it. https://youtu.be/An17PqAoAzU?si=hgTy3W6S5Nc1f3Al
KingDDD
3