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Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest news on Alpha Two.
Check out general Announcements here to see the latest news on Ashes of Creation & Intrepid Studios.
To get the quickest updates regarding Alpha Two, connect your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Best Of
Re: Sorrow of Support and Healing classes
Not a huge fan of easily padded stats that in reality don't mean anything. Garbage time stat farming is a real thing in the NFL and I'd like to see systems in place that account for that.
KingDDD
1
Re: Ashes of Creation must dodge this bullet
I'd be glad to provide one of them. On Asterios L2 private servers (that exists for 15+ years already) where I played starting around 2009-2010, they launched servers with various rates. The time of the server launches are always the same: one in the end of August or beginning of September, another one around February/March.
x1 and x3 servers maintained a higher number of CCU and stayed more active for a significantly longer period of time compared to x7 (which was basically x14 with premium account). I emphasize once again, it's not cherry picking as I witnessed it multiple times throughout all these years. And I've seen the same thing on other servers.
1. Objectives in both cases are the same: attract as many players as possible, make them stay for as long as possible and earn as much as possible.
2. Audience is no different. It's the audience of the same server, same patch, same everything apart from rates.
3. You don't want to appeal to the official servers because you'd only prove my point. Classic x1 servers lived for years, despite them being so hardcore that players were only approaching the level cap after 2,5 years while playing ~8-12 hours per day. There was a detailed statistics for those servers back then and anyone could track it.
This is a good question and I probably should have emphasized it in the description. It doesn't play a huge role and I'll explain why, but the logic behind this assumption at least had a potential to end up being true.
The difference between those rates exists but it's not super significant from player's perspective.
Why? Because the amount of fun didn't strictly correlate with server rates.
How do I know that - I know that based on the game's forum, it's recruiting section and the fact that the same ~15 guilds who play almost on every launch. Basically, the majority of players were the same players who play on every new server. This is what allowed me to consider this comparison valid.
Unfortunately, throughout all those years I had no idea that I might need the detailed statistics of that in future. Wish I had it, because it would save all of us a lot of time and eliminate a couple of unnecessary discussions in this thread.
Any private servers are irrelevant to the discussion.
If Classic was the publicly launched MMO server people played on, then by all means give us a general population estimate and we can use that information.
Caeryl
1
Re: Sorrow of Support and Healing classes
Ergophobic wrote: »I'd like to add that hybrid classes generally get screwed in a lot of these situations, as well, since they end up dealing middling damage and middling healing (for example).
Some metrics are easy to quantify, and some aren't. That's part of the difficulty. In a perfect system, I'd prefer an overall "score" that took into account everything that a person did, that mattered (so ignored stat padding). Good luck creating that algorithm!
100% agreed. Bard is going to be the poster child for this.
I am planning to roll a Shadow Disciple, no doubt sacrificing a lot of heals to add damage and other utility. There are many examples like this, where the traditional stats just aren't going to capture the contributions of a player.
Re: Ashes of Creation must dodge this bullet
Ayeveegaming1 wrote: »Ayeveegaming1 wrote: »Ayeveegaming1 wrote: »What a ridiculous statement, clearly shows your expertise on the matter. Makes as much sense as accusing a Rust player in griefing after he raided someone's base.[/b]We already know you're prone to ganking and griefing in your time in L2, so sure for your preferred play style you'd have more fun when people are kept at low level for longer, but for everyone else, a couple months of dedicated playtime is plenty to understand their class enough that drawing out the leveling process provides no benefit to them.Never insulted you.You can throw insults all you like; you're just showing your own issues.Wrong again for the 4283952th time. I never said game is DOA, it said that it might have a positive impact on game's longevity. Twisting my words and mental gymnastics is just a sign you got nothing better to say.I'm not the one who's making baseless assumptions and building a whole DoA thread based on those incorrect assumptions.
Not replying to all other stuff you wrote, because it's pointless. I'd rather talk to people who make fair counterpoints.
It's honestly pitiful that you either think the boldface lying is at all convincing, or you genuinely don't understand what's wrong with your behavior.
What do you think happens if someone doesn't 'dodge the bullet', given that colloquialism means they'd narrowly escape disaster. There's nothing disastrous about leveling taking a dedicated daily player a couple months.
Most will take a bit longer. A small handful will try to bum rush the entire process like a cat after a laser pointer.
Ashes's leveling process (for just adventuring class) is already planning to take longer than any other active MMO on the market. You haven't even name a single one that takes longer at its default.
You've just insulted people's intelligence and yapped on as if your unproven premise is fact while providing no evidence of it being insufficient.
I guess I have not seen this from Flanker, maybe there is a language barrier but I understand his points. I do not think he was trying to belittle anyone.Sorry, I'll stop using words that contain more than 4 letters.All your wordy nonsense doesn't change that your base premise is bs. Even your wordy bloat looks like you pulled it out of thin air.
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Is your brain CPU capable of estimating how much time it takes for non-native English speaker to write all the comments in this thread and then compare this time spent with the potential benefit from getting 6 views?
@Ayeveegaming1 The overall tone is similarly derogatory toward people who don't agree with him, but those are the most blatant direct insults.
Even in his post in which he threw those insults around, he's claiming the design is catering to 30min/day players, or that people are focusing on that population, which no one is.
His one and only correct statement is that too-short leveling process can lead to a worse game experience if the time to level is insufficient to actually understanding their class and the game's other systems.
What he hasn't done is give any support for how a month and a half of giving Ashes a larger time commitment than a full time job wouldn't be sufficient for learning your class and the game's systems.
I do not think anyone here is innocent of ribbing each other. I do think that sometimes people misread the context of what others are trying to convey. But needless to say, its never good to keep the negativity going. We should be able to just keep on topic instead of attacking each other. What you might find insulting might be just the normal lingo in the country he is from. Imagine if you where talking to Australians or English when they call people C**ts. Its just normal talk over there, but you would take offense here. Just roll with it and move on really.
I'd like to see actual data of the claims he makes, but as you can see above, he's not interested.
Thankfully, I can say with certainty Intrepid isn't going to arbitrarily bloat their leveling timeline any further. There would be no point to it, as much as Flanker rants otherwise.
Maybe he can go over it again in another video, to clarify. He really does quality videos, even if one does not agree with the topic.
Call me old school, but video format taking the place of written discussion has been a massive downgrade in communication. I have zero interest in content creators.
Caeryl
4
Re: Ashes of Creation must dodge this bullet
Ayeveegaming1 wrote: »Ayeveegaming1 wrote: »What a ridiculous statement, clearly shows your expertise on the matter. Makes as much sense as accusing a Rust player in griefing after he raided someone's base.[/b]We already know you're prone to ganking and griefing in your time in L2, so sure for your preferred play style you'd have more fun when people are kept at low level for longer, but for everyone else, a couple months of dedicated playtime is plenty to understand their class enough that drawing out the leveling process provides no benefit to them.Never insulted you.You can throw insults all you like; you're just showing your own issues.Wrong again for the 4283952th time. I never said game is DOA, it said that it might have a positive impact on game's longevity. Twisting my words and mental gymnastics is just a sign you got nothing better to say.I'm not the one who's making baseless assumptions and building a whole DoA thread based on those incorrect assumptions.
Not replying to all other stuff you wrote, because it's pointless. I'd rather talk to people who make fair counterpoints.
It's honestly pitiful that you either think the boldface lying is at all convincing, or you genuinely don't understand what's wrong with your behavior.
What do you think happens if someone doesn't 'dodge the bullet', given that colloquialism means they'd narrowly escape disaster. There's nothing disastrous about leveling taking a dedicated daily player a couple months.
Most will take a bit longer. A small handful will try to bum rush the entire process like a cat after a laser pointer.
Ashes's leveling process (for just adventuring class) is already planning to take longer than any other active MMO on the market. You haven't even name a single one that takes longer at its default.
You've just insulted people's intelligence and yapped on as if your unproven premise is fact while providing no evidence of it being insufficient.
I guess I have not seen this from Flanker, maybe there is a language barrier but I understand his points. I do not think he was trying to belittle anyone.Sorry, I'll stop using words that contain more than 4 letters.All your wordy nonsense doesn't change that your base premise is bs. Even your wordy bloat looks like you pulled it out of thin air.
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Is your brain CPU capable of estimating how much time it takes for non-native English speaker to write all the comments in this thread and then compare this time spent with the potential benefit from getting 6 views?
@Ayeveegaming1 The overall tone is similarly derogatory toward people who don't agree with him, but those are the most blatant direct insults.
Even in his post in which he threw those insults around, he's claiming the design is catering to 30min/day players, or that people are focusing on that population, which no one is.
His one and only correct statement is that too-short leveling process can lead to a worse game experience if the time to level is insufficient to actually understanding their class and the game's other systems.
What he hasn't done is give any support for how a month and a half of giving Ashes a larger time commitment than a full time job wouldn't be sufficient for learning your class and the game's systems.
I do not think anyone here is innocent of ribbing each other. I do think that sometimes people misread the context of what others are trying to convey. But needless to say, its never good to keep the negativity going. We should be able to just keep on topic instead of attacking each other. What you might find insulting might be just the normal lingo in the country he is from. Imagine if you where talking to Australians or English when they call people C**ts. Its just normal talk over there, but you would take offense here. Just roll with it and move on really.
I'd like to see actual data of the claims he makes, but as you can see above, he's not interested.
Thankfully, I can say with certainty Intrepid isn't going to arbitrarily bloat their leveling timeline any further. There would be no point to it, as much as Flanker rants otherwise.
Caeryl
1
Re: Ashes of Creation must dodge this bullet
Ayeveegaming1 wrote: »What a ridiculous statement, clearly shows your expertise on the matter. Makes as much sense as accusing a Rust player in griefing after he raided someone's base.[/b]We already know you're prone to ganking and griefing in your time in L2, so sure for your preferred play style you'd have more fun when people are kept at low level for longer, but for everyone else, a couple months of dedicated playtime is plenty to understand their class enough that drawing out the leveling process provides no benefit to them.Never insulted you.You can throw insults all you like; you're just showing your own issues.Wrong again for the 4283952th time. I never said game is DOA, it said that it might have a positive impact on game's longevity. Twisting my words and mental gymnastics is just a sign you got nothing better to say.I'm not the one who's making baseless assumptions and building a whole DoA thread based on those incorrect assumptions.
Not replying to all other stuff you wrote, because it's pointless. I'd rather talk to people who make fair counterpoints.
It's honestly pitiful that you either think the boldface lying is at all convincing, or you genuinely don't understand what's wrong with your behavior.
What do you think happens if someone doesn't 'dodge the bullet', given that colloquialism means they'd narrowly escape disaster. There's nothing disastrous about leveling taking a dedicated daily player a couple months.
Most will take a bit longer. A small handful will try to bum rush the entire process like a cat after a laser pointer.
Ashes's leveling process (for just adventuring class) is already planning to take longer than any other active MMO on the market. You haven't even name a single one that takes longer at its default.
You've just insulted people's intelligence and yapped on as if your unproven premise is fact while providing no evidence of it being insufficient.
I guess I have not seen this from Flanker, maybe there is a language barrier but I understand his points. I do not think he was trying to belittle anyone.
Sorry, I'll stop using words that contain more than 4 letters.All your wordy nonsense doesn't change that your base premise is bs. Even your wordy bloat looks like you pulled it out of thin air.
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Is your brain CPU capable of estimating how much time it takes for non-native English speaker to write all the comments in this thread and then compare this time spent with the potential benefit from getting 6 views?
@Ayeveegaming1 The overall tone is similarly derogatory toward people who don't agree with him, but those are the most blatant direct insults.
Even in his post in which he threw those insults around, he's claiming the design is catering to 30min/day players, or that people are focusing on that population, which no one is.
His one and only correct statement is that too-short leveling process can lead to a worse game experience if the time to level is insufficient to actually understanding their class and the game's other systems.
What he hasn't done is give any support for how a month and a half of giving Ashes a larger time commitment than a full time job wouldn't be sufficient for learning your class and the game's systems.
Caeryl
1
Re: Player enemy visual Health Bar update on hit.
limitted health info about pvp oponents is a good thing. It dose 2 main things.
First it raises the risks of random ganking out in the open world, because the initial attack against an oponent provides less information to the attacker. Normally an attacker immediatly gains lots of information and has an information asemetry advantage in a fully visible HP game they can generally immediatly know if they will win the fight based on that first hit, the attacker can then press home or abort the attack before the oponent gains any usefull information. Intrepid is clearly aware of this which is why they penalize corruption with more information given to thouse attacking corrupted.
Second it raises player skill and game mechanic knowlege and attention needed in any PvP sitiation to fill in the knowlege gap. Paying attention to attacks that have landed, their type and power in combination with the chunk level on the bar should let a good player know what the situation really is. Knowlege that most games simply give out to everyone without needing to expend any attention or thought.
This is fine, but the moment a player fights back, their info is presented
Diamaht
1
Re: Player enemy visual Health Bar update on hit.
This situation would not exist and not be part of the discussion if a non-combatant cannot be attacked but only combatant ones. This kind of pk-ing would then be no issue, because both combatants want to play pvp. In this case systems like corruption are not needed, because both want to pvp by intention, by choice.The only reason you would want to see is if you are trying to wait for them to be low to kill them or feed them to mobs.
But unfortunately that will not change, so workarounds are needed and they will never solve the root cause, they will only try to limit the damage.
That sounds terrible, point isn't to stop pking from happening. If someone truly wants to pk they will, and not have the ability to find a work around by being a rat.
The only root cause that needs to be fixed his making it so you can't see a greens heath bar. Meaning if you are attacking them you are committing to kill them, or atleast taking a huge risk.
It's the only root cause you can think of right now. That's because we haven't been able play around with it. A dozen new root causes will sprung up before we are even out of alpha and those will need to be fixed under the same logic, and then a dozen more during beta. Still more after launch.
And all of them will be just this "one last thing that needs changing".
These systems are not new they have existed in games before L2, BDO most noticeably that have karma systems. There is tons of data on those games already for player interaction and issues to get around corruption. The most easy way is to get mobs to kill a player, this is akin to asking why roads would be bad with 0 street lights or stop signs.
Mag7spy
1
Re: Ashes of Creation must dodge this bullet
It is still relevant. They might add new high level mobs, POIs, dungeons, quests, story arcs, NPCs, etc, Plenty of stuff. If, let's say ~50% of player base is max level and others are in 1-49 range, it's pretty obvious what's gonna be a priority.
And they will add content of that sort. But modifying the leveling speed will not have any significant change at this point, unless it is so drastic that it will make reaching max level almost unattainable for more casual players who might play around 10-12 hours a week.
If average max level player is waiting for new patch because he is about to get bored (and there are so many other games that he hasn't played yet) and then new patch brings no new content for him, how do you guess, what happens next?
This is why I said: The game loop Intrepid designs ensures that players just don't get bored within a few weeks after reaching max level.
It doesn't matter. Take any other game - people's behavior is not the same. Any game that has vertical progression will have people rushing to max level. Whether you like it or not, that's the human nature and objective reality.
I tell you what I like: I like that Steven has clearly said that if people do not like the core principles with which the game is designed, which includes a lot of horizontal progression and game play loops, then Ashes is not for them.
I get them some people love to destroy the intent of a game design and let someone else pilot them to max level, but Intrepid and Steven show no interest to suck up to players like this who are just after "big number", the game goes beyond way vertical progression and if someone get board because the vertical progression stops... they should have been well advised to read what they bought into.
Everything or almost everything - doesn't matter, I assume you understood perfectly what I meant. Speaking of acquiring gold, why would it be harder though? It's an assumption, not a fact. Additionally, if you have any friends or just kindly ask for help in chat - getting the gear on earliy levels wouldn't be a problem at all.
Sorry I don't quite follow here. You think that people will just hand out gear to newbies for asking nicely, even though that gear will be a necessary component for higher level gear?
Why would it be harder: The more players can wear gear of a certain level, the more demand is there for everything in the production line below that, so the prices rise for those goods in higher demand, but that doesn't make gold acquisition any easier. Hence more vertical progress creates more demand for economic activity along the entire production chain - and if that demand is not satisfied, prices for goods in that chain will keep rising. Basic economics.
This is not really relevant to level progression. The world is massive and you can find a way to grind anywhere you want. PvP is avoidable in such cases and unlike Alpha 2, I wouldn't expect players randomly PKing strangers.
And this is what I meant with "base assumptions". You think you can just comfortably hide away from PvP and powergrind to max level. You assume that reaching max level is highly relevant. I would argue: Both of these assumption are false.
That's typical planning fallacy. With so many variables, a smooth start would literally be a miracle.
And a bumpy start is so relevant that leveling has to be slower?
The ordinary gear definitely will. But the artisan gear though? If no, that's an issue. If yes, then it contadicts this part of wiki: Artisan progression does not directly relate to progression in a character's adventuring class
Not even then. Because Artisan progress is not dependent on the artisan gear. The wiki clearly states what artisan gear does: "Artisan gear boosts artisans in their gathering, processing, or crafting professions while they are wearing the gear." Meaning it is entirely optional to improving your proficiency / artisan skill level.
It also doesn't say anything about EVERY artisan class being ENTIRELY independent from adventurer level. No level 1 player will be able to go increase their gathering skill level by going to the highest level open world dungeons where the highest quality materials have to be gathered.
Kilion wrote:So just so I understand your concern correctly: You worry that Intrepids current rate of experience accumulation is set in a way that the content they have been building so far can be skipped to a big degree?
Correct
Oh. Boy.
Any number I would write would be an assumption that is based on my subjective perception. Which is not quite useful.
How convenient.
Obviously, the best outcome is if game encourages player to visit all of those regions and that encouragement (not forcing) is strong enough, so that player actually does that.
I don't think that is obvious at all, in fact that sounds to me like a game that makes it a pain in the neck to create and level an Alt.
Resources - yes. Not sure about "equipment" though. Got a source?
Yeah, the Wiki. Specific and necessary crafting materials for higher tier items can only be obtained through the deconstruction of lower-tier items. This is designed to keep lower tier crafted gear relevant through progression and across expansions.
It depends on the game. If that's a monotonous grind, I wouldn't expect many players to enjoy it. If Intrepid delivers everything they promised - then I don't care if reaching level 50 would take 5000 hours as I will enjoy it on any level, be it level 12 or 27. Once again, it's not my assumption, I've seen that happening in Lineage. People played for years without even reaching the level cap. Why? Because they had fun despite the fact that Lineage 2 was extremely grindy.
If the things that make it enjoyable to reach max level are still relevant at max, why increase the time to reach max level in the first place?
Kilion
1
Re: Player enemy visual Health Bar update on hit.
limitted health info about pvp oponents is a good thing. It dose 2 main things.
First it raises the risks of random ganking out in the open world, because the initial attack against an oponent provides less information to the attacker. Normally an attacker immediatly gains lots of information and has an information asemetry advantage in a fully visible HP game they can generally immediatly know if they will win the fight based on that first hit, the attacker can then press home or abort the attack before the oponent gains any usefull information. Intrepid is clearly aware of this which is why they penalize corruption with more information given to thouse attacking corrupted.
Second it raises player skill and game mechanic knowlege and attention needed in any PvP sitiation to fill in the knowlege gap. Paying attention to attacks that have landed, their type and power in combination with the chunk level on the bar should let a good player know what the situation really is. Knowlege that most games simply give out to everyone without needing to expend any attention or thought.
First it raises the risks of random ganking out in the open world, because the initial attack against an oponent provides less information to the attacker. Normally an attacker immediatly gains lots of information and has an information asemetry advantage in a fully visible HP game they can generally immediatly know if they will win the fight based on that first hit, the attacker can then press home or abort the attack before the oponent gains any usefull information. Intrepid is clearly aware of this which is why they penalize corruption with more information given to thouse attacking corrupted.
Second it raises player skill and game mechanic knowlege and attention needed in any PvP sitiation to fill in the knowlege gap. Paying attention to attacks that have landed, their type and power in combination with the chunk level on the bar should let a good player know what the situation really is. Knowlege that most games simply give out to everyone without needing to expend any attention or thought.
Lodrig
1