Best Of
Re: 📝 Dev Discussion - Archetype Vibe Check
Which archetype do you find the most fun to play? Why?
I always played Ranger since P1
Which archetype do you find the least fun to play? Why?
No idea, haven't really played other archetypes
Are there any combat systems or mechanics you feel need more development or refinement? Please explain.
1. Recently on PTR, me and other ranger encountered issues with applying Thorns and Regeneration toggle buffs. They worked inconsistently and sometimes it was impossible to apply them to my character or to other players.
2. Thorns buff doesn't really feel impactful. Dealing 8 damage and applying Bleeding from time to time - it's pretty much nothing.
3. Regeneration buff doesn't feel impactful. 100 Regeneration Rating is nothing. Same applies to it's passive upgrade Siphoning Regeneration - not worth the skill point, since 5% regen from damage dealt to marked target is not worth it, pretty much useless.
4. Updated Hunt/Mark system:
- Previously ranger could choose which mark and hunt they want to use. Now we have less flexibility, since everyone is using either Tiger or Bear.
- Losing Hunt buff while Mark is active doesn't feel good. In mass PvP using mark vs a target often makes no sense because it leads to the loss of Tiger/Bear Hunt, which reduces ranger's damage output versus ALL targets.
- Temporary buffs that appear upon Mark's expiration are nice to have, but you can't really rely on them or play around them, since they only appear after 8 seconds of Mark.
- Hunt of the Raven - pretty much useless. Nobody would pick this hunt over Tiger/Bear.
Suggestion:
a) Hunt buff should remain active when Mark is used;
b) (Optionally) Temporary buff should be instantly activated when Mark is used.
Explanation:
Mark is ranger's unique mechanic and it should be and feel impactful. Under these conditions, marks will create a burst window without affecting ranger's damage output and provide a defensive buff to increase surrvavibility a bit. Ranger is pretty much the only archetype that doesn't have heals or shields, which is fine as long as there is at least something else for survivability.
5. Ensnaring Vine Field applies 1 stack of Snared per second when enemy is hit with Vine Field. It leads to enemy getting a Snare/Chill immunity a several seconds after being rooted with Vine Field. The amount of stacks should be reduced, probably limited to 2.
6. Bear Traps: not a bad utility skill overall. However, 3 skill points are required to upgrade them fully and it feels like too much. As someone suggested in discord, removing Trapslinger passive completely and keeping its effect for a default Bear Trap could be a reasonable option. This way, you won't have to allocate 3 skills point, but 2.
7. Air Strike - great skill visually, but rarely used in PvP. Description says that each out of 3 projectiles are supposed to deal 150% damage, but in reality - a target only gets hit once regardless of the number of projectiles it got hit by. So either the description is somewhat confusing or it doesn't work as intended. Overall, skill is good on paper, but in reality - very very situational, sits on 45-second cooldown that can't be reset by using Lightning Reload.
8. Scatter Shot has an upgrade "Consentrated Scatter Shot". It is not always reliable: sometimes you get a charged version instead of a basic one, sometimes - the other way around.
During group combat or grinding sessions, do you feel any core features or gameplay elements are missing or underdeveloped? If yes, please describe.
1. I don't feel like I'm actually playing a ranger, I feel like I'm playing something with a bow. Since the vast majority of other players, especially PvP players are using longbow because of its 35m range, I don't really feel any different. Ranger is supposed to have something like a passive that gives +5m range at least to his auto-attacks. This could make ranger at least somewhat different from *insert any archetype* with a longbow. Additionally, it will create an opportunity for rangers to kite (which normally they are supposed to do)
2. Excuse my French, but shortbows are absolute trash. It doesn't even feel like a bow because of its animation. Like, am I shooting a bow or MG42? Additionally, it has a 30m range - this alone is enough to make it useless, since *insert any archetype* with a longbow will have an advantage over you because of range.
I'll say it once again. Not a ranger will have an advantage over ranger. With a bow. Over RANGER. Because they can shoot further... than a ranger.
The passive with +5m range that I mentioned could also fix the issue with shortbows, making them a viable alternative with 35m range instead of 30m.
And for the love of God, please. This shortbow animation is just... ewww. It doesn't just break the immersion, it literally nukes it with 100 gigaton bomb.
I always played Ranger since P1
Which archetype do you find the least fun to play? Why?
No idea, haven't really played other archetypes
Are there any combat systems or mechanics you feel need more development or refinement? Please explain.
1. Recently on PTR, me and other ranger encountered issues with applying Thorns and Regeneration toggle buffs. They worked inconsistently and sometimes it was impossible to apply them to my character or to other players.
2. Thorns buff doesn't really feel impactful. Dealing 8 damage and applying Bleeding from time to time - it's pretty much nothing.
3. Regeneration buff doesn't feel impactful. 100 Regeneration Rating is nothing. Same applies to it's passive upgrade Siphoning Regeneration - not worth the skill point, since 5% regen from damage dealt to marked target is not worth it, pretty much useless.
4. Updated Hunt/Mark system:
- Previously ranger could choose which mark and hunt they want to use. Now we have less flexibility, since everyone is using either Tiger or Bear.
- Losing Hunt buff while Mark is active doesn't feel good. In mass PvP using mark vs a target often makes no sense because it leads to the loss of Tiger/Bear Hunt, which reduces ranger's damage output versus ALL targets.
- Temporary buffs that appear upon Mark's expiration are nice to have, but you can't really rely on them or play around them, since they only appear after 8 seconds of Mark.
- Hunt of the Raven - pretty much useless. Nobody would pick this hunt over Tiger/Bear.
Suggestion:
a) Hunt buff should remain active when Mark is used;
b) (Optionally) Temporary buff should be instantly activated when Mark is used.
Explanation:
Mark is ranger's unique mechanic and it should be and feel impactful. Under these conditions, marks will create a burst window without affecting ranger's damage output and provide a defensive buff to increase surrvavibility a bit. Ranger is pretty much the only archetype that doesn't have heals or shields, which is fine as long as there is at least something else for survivability.
5. Ensnaring Vine Field applies 1 stack of Snared per second when enemy is hit with Vine Field. It leads to enemy getting a Snare/Chill immunity a several seconds after being rooted with Vine Field. The amount of stacks should be reduced, probably limited to 2.
6. Bear Traps: not a bad utility skill overall. However, 3 skill points are required to upgrade them fully and it feels like too much. As someone suggested in discord, removing Trapslinger passive completely and keeping its effect for a default Bear Trap could be a reasonable option. This way, you won't have to allocate 3 skills point, but 2.
7. Air Strike - great skill visually, but rarely used in PvP. Description says that each out of 3 projectiles are supposed to deal 150% damage, but in reality - a target only gets hit once regardless of the number of projectiles it got hit by. So either the description is somewhat confusing or it doesn't work as intended. Overall, skill is good on paper, but in reality - very very situational, sits on 45-second cooldown that can't be reset by using Lightning Reload.
8. Scatter Shot has an upgrade "Consentrated Scatter Shot". It is not always reliable: sometimes you get a charged version instead of a basic one, sometimes - the other way around.
During group combat or grinding sessions, do you feel any core features or gameplay elements are missing or underdeveloped? If yes, please describe.
1. I don't feel like I'm actually playing a ranger, I feel like I'm playing something with a bow. Since the vast majority of other players, especially PvP players are using longbow because of its 35m range, I don't really feel any different. Ranger is supposed to have something like a passive that gives +5m range at least to his auto-attacks. This could make ranger at least somewhat different from *insert any archetype* with a longbow. Additionally, it will create an opportunity for rangers to kite (which normally they are supposed to do)
2. Excuse my French, but shortbows are absolute trash. It doesn't even feel like a bow because of its animation. Like, am I shooting a bow or MG42? Additionally, it has a 30m range - this alone is enough to make it useless, since *insert any archetype* with a longbow will have an advantage over you because of range.
I'll say it once again. Not a ranger will have an advantage over ranger. With a bow. Over RANGER. Because they can shoot further... than a ranger.
The passive with +5m range that I mentioned could also fix the issue with shortbows, making them a viable alternative with 35m range instead of 30m.
And for the love of God, please. This shortbow animation is just... ewww. It doesn't just break the immersion, it literally nukes it with 100 gigaton bomb.
Flanker
4
Re: 📝 Dev Discussion - Archetype Vibe Check
I am a Ranger main since P1 with over 1.5k hours on the class. Maybe have 100 hours on fighter as well.
-Ranger feels bad to play outside of ZvZ because its kit has very little "usable" synergy.
-The class also has terrible mana issues. You can dump all your mana after a rotation.
-Undead can see Ranger invis which makes it difficult to use one of your core abilities in many areas of the game. We also dont have any moves/abilities that has synergism with invis.
-Hunts feel weird and too complex. I would much more prefer a simpler version of them rather than something that has 3 different effects during its life cycle.
-Also Bear trap, refreshing headshot, siphoning regeneration and airstike either feel bad to use or have no impact
-Refreshing headshot has no impact since you can not visually see someone can die to it with your damage output. You just see a bar. Its a waste of a point.
-Airstrike should not be an attack IMO but give us some sort of buff. It also has little value because of how bad snared is. Airstrike also does no feel good to use being a melee skill. It is used extremely infrequently as its ending momentum can easily send you over a ledge when farming or if your using it in pvp it probably means your panicking and about to die.
-Bear trap takes too long to summon if you want to hit a player. Also snare is terrible so you will never get more than the default root time off it.
-Siphoning Regen you can almost not feel at all. Many rangers dont put a point into it in pvp because you dont get any noticeable health back even with a full healing power build I tested on PTR. You can only feel a little bit of healing if you use it with snipe. Else you get no value it feels like. We have no sustain on this class. It would be nice to have something we could see the impact of like Mages bubble which gives temp heath that always finds value.
-Snare constantly DRs and you get no value out of it. It also shares DRs with chilled which had massive value for mage shatter combos. That dynamic alone heavily hinders the CC.
-Many rangers choose not to even take snare on root because it can stop friendly mages getting chilled off for a shatter combo. Which is both bad for farming and pvp.
-Constant DRing itself means lack of value so you cant use it with any moves with synergies with it.
-No reason to use snare over bleed or daze if you are not going to get value out of snare.
-Focus feels fine and is easy to manage.
-AOE moves feel good to use on lots of mobs but with mob difficulty changes we may not be farming as many mobs as we used to so the moves will feel worse. In PVP they are effective though.
-Overall I feel like a lot of the class abilities should be reworked to synergize better together giving the class more depth outside of seeing massive splash numbers on AOE.
-Also let Ranger and Fighter Arrow/Stance dance. It would increase the skill ceiling on both classes.
-I plan on sticking with ranger cuz AOE/Snipe is fun but it sucks that I just dont use most my abilities even if I am forced to take points in them because we dont have that many abilities compared to rogue/bard.
-Ranger feels bad to play outside of ZvZ because its kit has very little "usable" synergy.
-The class also has terrible mana issues. You can dump all your mana after a rotation.
-Undead can see Ranger invis which makes it difficult to use one of your core abilities in many areas of the game. We also dont have any moves/abilities that has synergism with invis.
-Hunts feel weird and too complex. I would much more prefer a simpler version of them rather than something that has 3 different effects during its life cycle.
-Also Bear trap, refreshing headshot, siphoning regeneration and airstike either feel bad to use or have no impact
-Refreshing headshot has no impact since you can not visually see someone can die to it with your damage output. You just see a bar. Its a waste of a point.
-Airstrike should not be an attack IMO but give us some sort of buff. It also has little value because of how bad snared is. Airstrike also does no feel good to use being a melee skill. It is used extremely infrequently as its ending momentum can easily send you over a ledge when farming or if your using it in pvp it probably means your panicking and about to die.
-Bear trap takes too long to summon if you want to hit a player. Also snare is terrible so you will never get more than the default root time off it.
-Siphoning Regen you can almost not feel at all. Many rangers dont put a point into it in pvp because you dont get any noticeable health back even with a full healing power build I tested on PTR. You can only feel a little bit of healing if you use it with snipe. Else you get no value it feels like. We have no sustain on this class. It would be nice to have something we could see the impact of like Mages bubble which gives temp heath that always finds value.
-Snare constantly DRs and you get no value out of it. It also shares DRs with chilled which had massive value for mage shatter combos. That dynamic alone heavily hinders the CC.
-Many rangers choose not to even take snare on root because it can stop friendly mages getting chilled off for a shatter combo. Which is both bad for farming and pvp.
-Constant DRing itself means lack of value so you cant use it with any moves with synergies with it.
-No reason to use snare over bleed or daze if you are not going to get value out of snare.
-Focus feels fine and is easy to manage.
-AOE moves feel good to use on lots of mobs but with mob difficulty changes we may not be farming as many mobs as we used to so the moves will feel worse. In PVP they are effective though.
-Overall I feel like a lot of the class abilities should be reworked to synergize better together giving the class more depth outside of seeing massive splash numbers on AOE.
-Also let Ranger and Fighter Arrow/Stance dance. It would increase the skill ceiling on both classes.
-I plan on sticking with ranger cuz AOE/Snipe is fun but it sucks that I just dont use most my abilities even if I am forced to take points in them because we dont have that many abilities compared to rogue/bard.
supa
3
Re: Risk, Reward, Difficulty & FUN: What Intrepid is Missing
ordotemplarii wrote: »Enigmatic Sage wrote: »@ordotemplarii
the combat systems synergy to proc stronger abilities based on status effects definitely aids in rotational spam for zerging
Unfortunately, range will almost always have an advantage in larger scaled combat scenarios than the front liners because of game design advantages. Just inevitable unfortunately.
Distance/positioning, aoe, proc synergy, and support roles backing them up compared to the front liners and scrimmagers
I don't know enough about the combat to say zergy or not zergy, but what I do know is that when you can't even get passed lvl 10 without zerging down mobs, its not looking good.
1- what do you consider leveling up as a zerg?
2- who says you cant get past level 10 without a zerg? im assuming zerg here you mean a raid or bigger.
exp in raids got nerfed. it was viable in alpha 1 lol. you can still items as a raid though. nothing wrong with that.
1-10 is faster soloing than partying, unless you go to a couple of special spots (assuming no one is there).
10-14/15 only takes a few hours soloing. it's probably faster than partying, and you make more money too. I'm never partying again from 1 to 14 xDDD. you can still solo after that but it's faster as a party, and partying isnt zerguing.
why people dont want to party is beyond me.
Depraved
2
Re: 📝 Dev Discussion - Archetype Vibe Check
I'm largely going to echo what a lot of people have already said.
The best, most well rounded classes are Bard and Rogue. They have a lot of options and play styles, a fluid kit, and unique mechanics to play around. They are the gold standard all other classes should aspire to be.
Warrior is fluid, but bland. It runs up and hits things. It doesn't do anything particularly unique or interesting, and isn't really the best at anything, or really have anything in the way of a core identity. Maybe if it had different skill lines based on weapons, like Sword, Axe, Hammer. Right now, it all bleeds together as indistinct 'melee'. It has a weak identity. Edit: Something I'd like to see added, would be an alternate stamina system for warriors. Which they can expend in the same ways, in addition to using for skills instead of MP, and can generate through a number of means. So that warriors a physical masters, that can run for longer, block and dodge more, and can wield a wide assortment of weapons.
Ranger likewise, is just the 'I have a bow' class. It's very one note, and lacks any kind of core class mechanic. It needs more to do the just bows and traps. Like animal companions, and more melee options such as kicks and short swords.
Clerics are bland as bland can be. And I typically love healers, and this just ain't it chief. All it does is heal, and occasionally throw out a holy spell. It has no breath or depth. Personally, I would take a page out of Guild Wars, with the Protection Monk. Ie spells that focus around damage mitigation, rather than healing.
Mage blows things up well, but lacks variety. Each of the elements don't really have enough depth to use to the exclusion of other elements, nor is there really enough difference between them. They all do damage, they all have minor additional conditions. It's all just color coded magic, rather than actual different studies of magic. Also, where the hell is Earth magic?
Tanks.... eh. I've never liked playing tanks, and this does nothing for me. The name sucks.
The best, most well rounded classes are Bard and Rogue. They have a lot of options and play styles, a fluid kit, and unique mechanics to play around. They are the gold standard all other classes should aspire to be.
Warrior is fluid, but bland. It runs up and hits things. It doesn't do anything particularly unique or interesting, and isn't really the best at anything, or really have anything in the way of a core identity. Maybe if it had different skill lines based on weapons, like Sword, Axe, Hammer. Right now, it all bleeds together as indistinct 'melee'. It has a weak identity. Edit: Something I'd like to see added, would be an alternate stamina system for warriors. Which they can expend in the same ways, in addition to using for skills instead of MP, and can generate through a number of means. So that warriors a physical masters, that can run for longer, block and dodge more, and can wield a wide assortment of weapons.
Ranger likewise, is just the 'I have a bow' class. It's very one note, and lacks any kind of core class mechanic. It needs more to do the just bows and traps. Like animal companions, and more melee options such as kicks and short swords.
Clerics are bland as bland can be. And I typically love healers, and this just ain't it chief. All it does is heal, and occasionally throw out a holy spell. It has no breath or depth. Personally, I would take a page out of Guild Wars, with the Protection Monk. Ie spells that focus around damage mitigation, rather than healing.
Mage blows things up well, but lacks variety. Each of the elements don't really have enough depth to use to the exclusion of other elements, nor is there really enough difference between them. They all do damage, they all have minor additional conditions. It's all just color coded magic, rather than actual different studies of magic. Also, where the hell is Earth magic?
Tanks.... eh. I've never liked playing tanks, and this does nothing for me. The name sucks.
Yoh
2
Re: Risk, Reward, Difficulty & FUN: What Intrepid is Missing
@ordotemplarii
the combat systems synergy to proc stronger abilities based on status effects definitely aids in rotational spam for zerging
Unfortunately, range will almost always have an advantage in larger scaled combat scenarios than the front liners because of game design advantages. Just inevitable unfortunately.
Distance/positioning, aoe, proc synergy, and support roles backing them up compared to the front liners and scrimmagers
the combat systems synergy to proc stronger abilities based on status effects definitely aids in rotational spam for zerging
Unfortunately, range will almost always have an advantage in larger scaled combat scenarios than the front liners because of game design advantages. Just inevitable unfortunately.
Distance/positioning, aoe, proc synergy, and support roles backing them up compared to the front liners and scrimmagers
Re: Risk, Reward, Difficulty & FUN: What Intrepid is Missing
This one makes me think of something. I think that maybe there's a sort-of equivalent of this feeling for Econ-focused players, it's just so long/complex that I never want to try explaining it, but honestly this is probably the thread for a short-form.
"Not being able to even guess why someone/a small group is in an area."
I think that line doesn't make sense on its own, but in this case, if the only reason a player has, to be in an area, is to look for someone else (not someone specific, just 'another person') to kill for the sake of killing them, I don't think one can call it 'meaningful conflict'.
The next step normally is 'well maybe they are defending the territory and have a good reason to keep everyone out'. Ok, sure, that implies a reason why they do that, though. I don't have a problem with being fought or hunted while walking through a Py'Rai forest if I think they're protecting their trees or something.
I think this is actually somewhat a designer's responsibility. If your MMORPG is supposed to attract a bunch of players who just want to fight other players on the road, it's your job as a Dev to put a reason behind that in the world a decent portion of the time.
Most games I've played 'ignore' this or make it a loose enough connection, resulting in a higher population of players who are not there to play an MMORPG, they're there to play a combat sim where they can snowball or ego-check people who did, and the only win-condition for those is 'when the other player acknowledges defeat/the hierarchy'.My quote, above, is from 2021. In the midst of Alpha One and before Jeffrey Bard left as Lead Game Designer.Hmmn. So this kinda reminds of EQNext's concept of PvP Conflict - we have a whole bunch of former SOE devs on the Intrepid team, several of whom worked on the EQ franchise, so I'm expecting something like this will fall under what the Ashes devs have referred to as Meaningful Conflict.
The EQNext scenario the devs shared with us is:
Kithicor Forest is filled with Dryads who have Life Energy which can be siphoned as a resource. The Dark Elves kill the Dryads to siphon the Life Energy and convert it to Shadow Energy, which powers Shadow Magic and Stealth.
I typically have my characters max Stealth and I am usually a carebear, but... if I have to kill Dryads to siphon their Life Energy to power the Stealth abilities for my Rogue... any player character Druids who try to stop me from killing Dryads will just have to die!!
Draining Life Energy from Kithicor Forest will, over time, negatively impact all life in Kithicor Forest, so there is incentive for players to prevent the Dryads from being killed. Unbeknownst to the players, a tipping point of Life Energy depletion will allow Shadow Demons to break their shackles, roam across zones and destroy all life in their wake...Dark Elves included. Which will push the Dark Elves to ally with their former rivals to re-imprison the Shadow Demons.
I don't think a relic, as described, would entice me to participate in PvP combat.
I'm not going to try to kill a player character because of something they hold in their possession.
In the EQNext scenario, I'm truly focused on the PvE. And it's not really anything material I'm seeking - what I'm seeking is to improve my non-combat skills. If other players are gonna try to impede that, it could provoke me to initiate PvP, even though I would consider that a last resort option.
Kinda the flip side of that scenario is playing a Druid who knows that depleting too much Life Energy from Kithicor Forest will trigger the Shadow Demons to escape and wreak havoc around the region. As a Druid, I would try to parlay with players who are killing too many Dryads. I might have to initiate PvP if they continue to slaughter Dryads - but the motivation isn't because I love PvP or I want to steal loot from other players. Rather it is a last resort to protect the region from rampaging Shadow Demons.
Again... Meaningful Conflict rather than Risk v Reward.
I have abysmally low interest in Risk v Reward.
But, Meaningful Conflict is highly enticing, to me.
Ya I'm a min from walking away from Ashes as well. I have been testing Soulframe, I'm enjoying the PvE and the combat. There plans for PvP is enough to give me my PvP fix when I need it. Ashes Bard is the second best class I have played in my 25+ years of MMOing. Still needed love but the core play style was fun and rewarding. The more and more they move away from causel progression. Sad part is the game does not need to be casuel but just needs to make it possible to progress.
The last straw for me is ignoring feedback on gear scaling. Steven does not get that a PvP game needs to be skilled based. I'm tired of asking and seeing so many exit from failing to see that happen.
I would look again at Ashes if the gear boost was no more then 20%. I know now Steven does not care about PvP balance. He case more about gear looking "LEGANDARY". This game wlis walking down the same path every PvP has. Toxic PvPer will rule. People will be sick of not being able to defend themselves. Casuals and pure crafters will leave first. The game will go down hill from there. Toxic players will get board when their pray leaves and servers will become ghost towns. I have been MMOing PvP since DAoC launch. No PvP MMO has gotten it right since then. ESO was close. Would still be playing ESO if PvP players got some love.
Re: 📝 Dev Discussion - Archetype Vibe Check
My favorite archetype is by far the tank. I have been a tank main for the last two decades in a few different mmo's and it's the only playstyle I truely enjoy.
First off, I would like to change the name of the archetype from Tank to Guardian. It's just a better name.
I feel that I can see the broader plan for the AoC tank, but it also feels like it is missing a few key components to get there. Among these there are two that are essential to me and a few that are just conveniences.
The first big one is Blocking. Right now i AoC it feels like Blocking as a tank is just an afterthought with no real advantages. Active blocking doesn't feel right so blocking is just kind of a stat game where I block every 15th or 20th attack with really noticing. Here I see AoC could take one of two paths, one is to go heavily into Active Blocking and the other is to make Blocking a specc and stat game. Both could be viable if done correctly.
If you choose to go with active blocking, it has to feel rewarding and consequential to do so. This means that I want tools and options to customize my active blocking. This could be done by talents in the tanks talent tree that increase the effectiveness of blocking or reduces stamina cost or the like, or it could be by the choice of shield I make. One shield could be able to block higher amounts of damage and another could have better stamina regen or maybe spikes to deal damage to attackers. But there has to be options. Active blocking also needs to flow better with attack chains so that I can get the benefits of finishers somehow even if I'm raising my shield to block attacks.
If blocking is made in to a passive specc and stat game, then there has to be more abilities and talent choices to actually improve or specialize my blocks. This could be a defensive ability to increase my block rating or block chance for a few seconds, or it could be stats on the shield that make me acctually block a significant amount of the incoming attacks or that affect how much of the incoming attacks are blocked. Once again, make me have actual choices that impact the outcome of the encounter.
The second essential component I think is missing is the options to customize the feedback I get during combat. For example, I would like to be able to put certain buffs, like Grit, on a different spot in my UI than all the other buffs just so that it's easier to track. I would also like to be able to customize how incoming damage is displayed and I would really, really, really like to have a visual indicator on the nameplate of mobs if I have aggro or not.
I also think that the tank resource Courage is underwhelming. Right now it only acts as a secondary resource for a few abilities. I would much rather have Courage be a resource that you could either spend on abilities for offense or stack up for greater defence. This would give it a tactical component instead of just being a secondary resource. This could for example be done by have certain defensive abilities stay active as long as you stay above 50 Courage and the Cooldown starts when the effect is lost. That would mean that it's a choice, and a bigger impact, if you choose to spend your Courage on offensive abilities or if you want to manage it for defensive power.
Other than that I would like the tank to have a few more CC options and a few more defensive options. Not necessarily so I can have them all at the same time, just so that I can customize for playstyle and content.
Also, the ability Reflect is one of my favorites as a tank. I would just like if it not only did damage to the attacker, but also blocked incoming damage. Currently it doesn't.
Thank you for reading
First off, I would like to change the name of the archetype from Tank to Guardian. It's just a better name.
I feel that I can see the broader plan for the AoC tank, but it also feels like it is missing a few key components to get there. Among these there are two that are essential to me and a few that are just conveniences.
The first big one is Blocking. Right now i AoC it feels like Blocking as a tank is just an afterthought with no real advantages. Active blocking doesn't feel right so blocking is just kind of a stat game where I block every 15th or 20th attack with really noticing. Here I see AoC could take one of two paths, one is to go heavily into Active Blocking and the other is to make Blocking a specc and stat game. Both could be viable if done correctly.
If you choose to go with active blocking, it has to feel rewarding and consequential to do so. This means that I want tools and options to customize my active blocking. This could be done by talents in the tanks talent tree that increase the effectiveness of blocking or reduces stamina cost or the like, or it could be by the choice of shield I make. One shield could be able to block higher amounts of damage and another could have better stamina regen or maybe spikes to deal damage to attackers. But there has to be options. Active blocking also needs to flow better with attack chains so that I can get the benefits of finishers somehow even if I'm raising my shield to block attacks.
If blocking is made in to a passive specc and stat game, then there has to be more abilities and talent choices to actually improve or specialize my blocks. This could be a defensive ability to increase my block rating or block chance for a few seconds, or it could be stats on the shield that make me acctually block a significant amount of the incoming attacks or that affect how much of the incoming attacks are blocked. Once again, make me have actual choices that impact the outcome of the encounter.
The second essential component I think is missing is the options to customize the feedback I get during combat. For example, I would like to be able to put certain buffs, like Grit, on a different spot in my UI than all the other buffs just so that it's easier to track. I would also like to be able to customize how incoming damage is displayed and I would really, really, really like to have a visual indicator on the nameplate of mobs if I have aggro or not.
I also think that the tank resource Courage is underwhelming. Right now it only acts as a secondary resource for a few abilities. I would much rather have Courage be a resource that you could either spend on abilities for offense or stack up for greater defence. This would give it a tactical component instead of just being a secondary resource. This could for example be done by have certain defensive abilities stay active as long as you stay above 50 Courage and the Cooldown starts when the effect is lost. That would mean that it's a choice, and a bigger impact, if you choose to spend your Courage on offensive abilities or if you want to manage it for defensive power.
Other than that I would like the tank to have a few more CC options and a few more defensive options. Not necessarily so I can have them all at the same time, just so that I can customize for playstyle and content.
Also, the ability Reflect is one of my favorites as a tank. I would just like if it not only did damage to the attacker, but also blocked incoming damage. Currently it doesn't.
Thank you for reading
Raptin
3
Re: 📝 Dev Discussion - Archetype Vibe Check
Which archetype do you find the most fun to play? Why?
Every other class
Which archetype do you find the least fun to play? Why?
Ranger.
Are there any combat systems or mechanics you feel need more development or refinement? Please explain.
auto attacks range for rangers using BOW.
During group combat or grinding sessions, do you feel any core features or gameplay elements are missing or underdeveloped? If yes, please describe.
i think its better if Ranger ammo do like Explosion, Snare to stun 0.5segs when u have 20 stacks of that ammo etc..
The ranger feels underwhelming. Other classes can use bows too, yet the archer doesn't get any real advantage from it—not even a meaningful range difference (just 5-10 meters more). On top of that, basic attacks and some abilities slow you down. Why? That doesn’t happen to mages or bards. Why slow down the archer, the one class that’s supposed to be agile?
Every other class
Which archetype do you find the least fun to play? Why?
Ranger.
Are there any combat systems or mechanics you feel need more development or refinement? Please explain.
auto attacks range for rangers using BOW.
During group combat or grinding sessions, do you feel any core features or gameplay elements are missing or underdeveloped? If yes, please describe.
i think its better if Ranger ammo do like Explosion, Snare to stun 0.5segs when u have 20 stacks of that ammo etc..
The ranger feels underwhelming. Other classes can use bows too, yet the archer doesn't get any real advantage from it—not even a meaningful range difference (just 5-10 meters more). On top of that, basic attacks and some abilities slow you down. Why? That doesn’t happen to mages or bards. Why slow down the archer, the one class that’s supposed to be agile?
Re: 📝 Dev Discussion - Archetype Vibe Check
Which archetype do you find the most fun to play? Why?
Although I am and always will be a mage main, I would without a doubt say the most fun/well rounded/well designed classes are Bard, Rogue, and fighter. They all have good (rogue great) kits with lots of interactions with one another, and a high skill ceiling to separate the average player from a good player. Specifically the bard and rogue have good class fantasy/mechanic that makes them unique and engaging to play. As mentioned by other respondents, all classes should be as well designed/well rounded as the rogue at a minimum.
Which archetype do you find the least fun to play? Why?
I would say the rest of the classes need reworking/heavy refinement: Mage, Ranger, Tank, Cleric. I think their class mechanics are uninteresting and don't have enough synergy with the rest of the kit. Aside from mage, the ranger/tank/cleric just have basic builder/spender class mechanic that pretty much does the same thing - this needs reworking/heavy refinement.
As mentioned, I main mage and the class mechanic is uninteresting and needs more flare/synergies woven into the kit overall (or completely reworked). Shatter is cool and a no-brainer, but aside from that everything is lacking. At current max level, mages don't have much in terms of utility/flavor spells outside of slumber and invis eye; Give us more options to create unique builds focusing more on the elements (fire/ice/arcane/earth?), give us more class synergy and interested abilities/mechanics that allow for high skill play and not just straight damage (COUNTERSPELL PLS).
Are there any combat systems or mechanics you feel need more development or refinement? Please explain.
I have to say, i really dislike the shared debuff mechanic. When in a group bigger than maybe 5 people or with 2-3 classes that share the slow/immobilize debuff, it makes it extremely difficult/impossible to successfully execute your rotation even if you play perfectly. You will never be able to take advantage of the frozen/shatter/thermal equilibrium/fuse talents because it will always get DRed instantly when grouped with a few classes that overlap the debuff; even more so in a raid. This feels AWEFUL and makes you not want to try and maximize your dps or care about how you even play your class, as we haven't experienced any content yet where knowing how to play your class even matters anyways. I understand that shared debuffs has a place, but there needs to be a middle ground where you can still focus on personal performance - IE a certain amount of stacks of shock/burning/freeze produced by you are only usable by you, or something to that effect. In addition, i think there should be an option for button prompts or better visual ques for consuming stacks of a debuff that aren't just watching the tiny squares on enemy health bars!
During group combat or grinding sessions, do you feel any core features or gameplay elements are missing or underdeveloped? If yes, please describe.
As touched on in previous paragraph, better visual ques for stacks would be nice so we aren't staring at the tiny debuff squares constantly. I also think adding more interclass synergies would truly make this a next gen combat experience. The same way the new caravan system added the ability to opt-in via clicking an icon, maybe small visual indicators to use an ability with another player in your group/raid. I think this could possibly be a better way to have party/class synergy without disrupting your own buffs/debuff/rotations and still maintain the same reactive gameplay. Imagine a ranger charging a kill shot, and for a brief period, a visual indicator becomes available to your class (there would be unique class interactions available only to said class combos/abilities ) to empower their kill shot with fire to give it more damage and apply burning by clicking the icon before it disappears! I think there is so much you can do with class/party synergies that is still left on the table with everything so far.
Although I am and always will be a mage main, I would without a doubt say the most fun/well rounded/well designed classes are Bard, Rogue, and fighter. They all have good (rogue great) kits with lots of interactions with one another, and a high skill ceiling to separate the average player from a good player. Specifically the bard and rogue have good class fantasy/mechanic that makes them unique and engaging to play. As mentioned by other respondents, all classes should be as well designed/well rounded as the rogue at a minimum.
Which archetype do you find the least fun to play? Why?
I would say the rest of the classes need reworking/heavy refinement: Mage, Ranger, Tank, Cleric. I think their class mechanics are uninteresting and don't have enough synergy with the rest of the kit. Aside from mage, the ranger/tank/cleric just have basic builder/spender class mechanic that pretty much does the same thing - this needs reworking/heavy refinement.
As mentioned, I main mage and the class mechanic is uninteresting and needs more flare/synergies woven into the kit overall (or completely reworked). Shatter is cool and a no-brainer, but aside from that everything is lacking. At current max level, mages don't have much in terms of utility/flavor spells outside of slumber and invis eye; Give us more options to create unique builds focusing more on the elements (fire/ice/arcane/earth?), give us more class synergy and interested abilities/mechanics that allow for high skill play and not just straight damage (COUNTERSPELL PLS).
Are there any combat systems or mechanics you feel need more development or refinement? Please explain.
I have to say, i really dislike the shared debuff mechanic. When in a group bigger than maybe 5 people or with 2-3 classes that share the slow/immobilize debuff, it makes it extremely difficult/impossible to successfully execute your rotation even if you play perfectly. You will never be able to take advantage of the frozen/shatter/thermal equilibrium/fuse talents because it will always get DRed instantly when grouped with a few classes that overlap the debuff; even more so in a raid. This feels AWEFUL and makes you not want to try and maximize your dps or care about how you even play your class, as we haven't experienced any content yet where knowing how to play your class even matters anyways. I understand that shared debuffs has a place, but there needs to be a middle ground where you can still focus on personal performance - IE a certain amount of stacks of shock/burning/freeze produced by you are only usable by you, or something to that effect. In addition, i think there should be an option for button prompts or better visual ques for consuming stacks of a debuff that aren't just watching the tiny squares on enemy health bars!
During group combat or grinding sessions, do you feel any core features or gameplay elements are missing or underdeveloped? If yes, please describe.
As touched on in previous paragraph, better visual ques for stacks would be nice so we aren't staring at the tiny debuff squares constantly. I also think adding more interclass synergies would truly make this a next gen combat experience. The same way the new caravan system added the ability to opt-in via clicking an icon, maybe small visual indicators to use an ability with another player in your group/raid. I think this could possibly be a better way to have party/class synergy without disrupting your own buffs/debuff/rotations and still maintain the same reactive gameplay. Imagine a ranger charging a kill shot, and for a brief period, a visual indicator becomes available to your class (there would be unique class interactions available only to said class combos/abilities ) to empower their kill shot with fire to give it more damage and apply burning by clicking the icon before it disappears! I think there is so much you can do with class/party synergies that is still left on the table with everything so far.
Daevok
3
Re: Risk, Reward, Difficulty & FUN: What Intrepid is Missing
The problem is that Steven's philosophy is that MMOs are only fun if everything you do has high competition and high Risk. And he believes that there are Rewards that will help make that enjoyable.I’m saying you can have risk vs reward in scenarios that matter more. If the journey to max is more solo and casual friendly, they are more likely to stick around past that.
Casuals are unlikely to find that enjoyable. Cozies definitely won't.
And there are no Rewards that will change that. Especially when there are other games that fit the playstyle better.
When describing how Inventory is designed for bags, Steven said they are designed so that even we head out to gather we should be contemplating Economic warfare. I don't want to be constantly contemplating competition and Economic warfare any time I go out to gather some flowers.
First think I do, when I Level is go off an explore areas where no mobs longer con as Red/Skulls.
Steven thinks that is opt-in PvP if you go out to explore The Open Seas. I don't consider that opt-in Free-For-All PvP. Because Steven is motivated by the Rewards - and his love of PvP combat.
If I'm going out to explore, I just want to explore and not be distracted by other players pushing me into PvP combat. And there are no Rewards that are going to make Free-For-All PvP combat more enticing to me when I'm really only in the mood for exploration.
People who love PvP, say, "Well, you can always choose not to go to The Open Seas." But. I am an explorer first and foremost. Exploring the entire map probably has my highest interest, so, I'm not really going to be interested in playing a game where I can't explore the entire map. Instead I would just play a game where I can explore the entire map without having to deal with FFA PvP.
By the time Steven announced The Open Seas, WoW had already dropped Dragonflight - which I love to play.
Dragonflight has a level of PvE risk v reward that I enjoy. And Endgame loops I enjoy.
So... I would now play WoW rather than Ashes.
Had Ashes released Before 2020 with the original Kickstarter game design, I would have played Ashes rather than WoW.
Ashes has become less Casual-friendly since Jeffrey Bard left as Lead Game Designer.
Because Steven loves competition and high Risk... and he's creating a game for that niche who has his playstyle.
Dygz
1