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Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest news on Alpha Two.
Check out general Announcements here to see the latest news on Ashes of Creation & Intrepid Studios.
To get the quickest updates regarding Alpha Two, connect your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Best Of
Re: Player enemy visual Health Bar update on hit.
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Think there is probably more value in actual experince than hearsay.
I've played Lineage 2 (L2) for six years from open beta hardcore, then casually for another two years after returning around the 8-9 year mark.
During the early months after beta, I experienced gear loss in various ways:
1. I once accepted a random group invite to venture into a dungeon I hadn’t been to before. The group abandoned me, leaving me to die to mobs. They promptly picked up 50% of my gear, which had taken me a week to obtain.
2. I was PK'd while waiting for the ferry to leave the starter island, losing both armor and a weapon. It took me a few days to re-gear and attempt to leave the island again.
Later there were a few times to lose gear be that through pve/pvp death, with pk count death or being pk`d.
4. At level 40, I lost my leggings to a PK from a high-level guild that had an issue with my small group. We all died, and they took the gear.
5. At level 50, I lost armor to a mob death, gear that had taken 3-4 months to save for. I spent over an hour pleading with the farmer who picked it up to return it.
6. At level 70, while flagged red in PvP, I died and dropped only minor items.
7. Finally, at level 80, after 6-7 PKs, I died to a clan member and exploded like a bomb with all my gear scattered. Luckily, my clan member returned it, but it was a high-trust moment since rebuilding that wealth would’ve taken over a year.
Throughout the game, gear loss was relative to your level and wealth. Given how long and expensive it was to obtain gear, every death carried a calculated risk. Some players even quit after losing their gear.
I remember checking online black market stores back then and calculating my gear's real-world value. Just the bow alone was worth $1,500 at the time – who knows what it would be worth today!
Without a supportive guild, I would imagine if gear was even 10% as difficult to obtain and keep in L2, then the market of players willing to take that risk will be small!
Ludullu_(NiKr) wrote: »So that is the assumed impact. And I believe that we will not have enough content for everyone, considering that Steven keeps mentioning player friction as one of his desires for the game. You can't really create player friction if everyone can just sit in their little corner and get their own rewards.
Also, L2's player loot on death was much smaller, I've researched this extensively precisely because the L2 players have brought it up so much. I can find no evidence that it was ever truly comparable, maybe 20% chance of dropping anything at all in C2, and this is when you are MPKed.
If you want to have the L2 experience 'enough to suggest the removal of dropping items on death', you're willing to sacrifice something that's relatively important to the way Ashes works.
But this isn't particularly related to whether or not health bars should be shown, so I didn't want to bother with it. All I know is that using L2 as the blueprint and saying 'I want it to be designed this way because OTHERWISE an L2 problem will happen' doesn't make sense when you are countered by 'I don't think it needs to be designed that way because AA did it that way and the problem didn't happen'.
If we as a community keep being this way about basic design stuff, communication is going to break down even more, and when the NDA lifts, this place is just going to give Ashes a bad rep. I'm probably 'out of line' in saying it, but y'all L2 players need to stop this, seriously.
Think there is probably more value in actual experince than hearsay.
I've played Lineage 2 (L2) for six years from open beta hardcore, then casually for another two years after returning around the 8-9 year mark.
During the early months after beta, I experienced gear loss in various ways:
1. I once accepted a random group invite to venture into a dungeon I hadn’t been to before. The group abandoned me, leaving me to die to mobs. They promptly picked up 50% of my gear, which had taken me a week to obtain.
2. I was PK'd while waiting for the ferry to leave the starter island, losing both armor and a weapon. It took me a few days to re-gear and attempt to leave the island again.
Later there were a few times to lose gear be that through pve/pvp death, with pk count death or being pk`d.
4. At level 40, I lost my leggings to a PK from a high-level guild that had an issue with my small group. We all died, and they took the gear.
5. At level 50, I lost armor to a mob death, gear that had taken 3-4 months to save for. I spent over an hour pleading with the farmer who picked it up to return it.
6. At level 70, while flagged red in PvP, I died and dropped only minor items.
7. Finally, at level 80, after 6-7 PKs, I died to a clan member and exploded like a bomb with all my gear scattered. Luckily, my clan member returned it, but it was a high-trust moment since rebuilding that wealth would’ve taken over a year.
Throughout the game, gear loss was relative to your level and wealth. Given how long and expensive it was to obtain gear, every death carried a calculated risk. Some players even quit after losing their gear.
I remember checking online black market stores back then and calculating my gear's real-world value. Just the bow alone was worth $1,500 at the time – who knows what it would be worth today!
Without a supportive guild, I would imagine if gear was even 10% as difficult to obtain and keep in L2, then the market of players willing to take that risk will be small!
akabear
2
Re: Mobs per spot / Max aggro amount / Respawn time/ Proximity respawn range
These are my preferences:
- General mobs should be around 20-30s to kill, while they themselves can kill you faster if you mess up
- Some locations should have weaker mobs but in groups
- There should be patrolling mobs within each location, who'd aggro several groups (or strong solo mobs) onto you if they see you
- Group mobs should have synrgistic abilities, just as player parties do
- Overall aggro range should differ on both mob and location basis
- Mob leash should be real long, but there should be a timer on how long you've been pulling one mob onto you, and the lower the timer - the more mobs will auto-aggro onto you in the direct vicinity of you and the mob you pulled
- And when the amount of aggroed mobs goes over a certain threshold, they should start using their abilities on anyone within range, while also prioritizing CCs (especially movement-based ones)
- *** elites should be waaay harder than what we saw in the bard and raid showcase
- Mobs (and bosses) should have special AI interactions for when players around them start flagging purple, and ideally players should have some tools to interact with that AI mechanic
- Red players shouldn't aggro solo mobs, but should have a wider aggro for social mobs (i.e. patroll and group mobs)
Ludullu
2
Re: Player enemy visual Health Bar update on hit.
Right, and if corruption is that punishing, it is failing to perform its primary role. That role is to curb needless PvP, but not stop it when there is a reason.Ludullu_(NiKr) wrote: »If corruption is punishing enough for people to want to avoid it and if the content quantity is not just "enough for everyone" - people will want to avoid becoming corrupted while trying to remove a contestant for content.
Noaani
2
Re: Player enemy visual Health Bar update on hit.
My assumption is only slightly different.The primary assumption it seems like you are making MIGHT be that 'content will be fought over in the larger metro areas PRIMARILY, because content is scarce elsewhere'.
I expect metros to spawn high/top lvl content in each of its vassal nodes, but that content will still be limited, because there's only so much space in the game, and you still need to have lowbie and midbie content in the game, so that newbies can lvl up w/o issues all over the map.
The limited nature of that content will funnel more and more people towards those locations (the more people lvl up the bigger the contests for each location).
Whichever dungeon gets upgraded by its relation to the metro will only have a limited amount of mobs and bosses of top lvl which drop top mats. I'm sure there'll be pure top lvl dungeons around the metros themselves, but again, those will also be limited by available space.
Yes, the map might be huge, but I personally do not foresee it housing up-to 10k people all farming top lvl content (gatherables included).
If my assumption is proven wrong - great. Barely any pvp will happen, which means that pvers will be happier and the game will be alive for even longer.
And my assumption is also built on the fact that quite a lot of content will be prime-time-centric, so concentration of people around high value content will be even bigger, because everyone will be logging in just for that content.
Now there's definitely a hope that we'll have enough node and guild wars that will be happening at the same time, which will distract quite a lot of players away from other content, which would then free up space for those who might've been losing pvp around that content. But we'll have to see how that part of the game ends up being balanced.
But yeah, Steven's adoration of player friction, to me, dictates that design will push people together. And having limited content is one of the easiest ways of pushing people together.
Ludullu
2
Re: Player enemy visual Health Bar update on hit.
While people keep arguing and talking about the game they know little to nothing about, I want to remind everyone that the primary suggestion about health bars is not removing them completely and permanently. The current suggestion is to make them invisible for non-combatants (aka white/green players) and keep them visible for Combatants and Corrupt player (purple and red players correspondingly)
Flanker
1
Re: Player enemy visual Health Bar update on hit.
You have just described my favorite pastime in L2 Yes, w/o the item drop of course, but the activity itself is.If you kill me cause you're defending your spot, all that tells me is that you think this spot is worth defending. You're gonna be here, and you're gonna be accumulating STUFF. Stuff my guys can come take. If you cared enough to defend it you're not gonna be gone with the goods, and the longer you stay there to defend it the more valuable your drops will be when we take them.
Ashes of Creation is huge. Even individual nodes are huge. If people can spread out as much as they're going to be able to, there won't be that much conflict over spots. There's gonna be enough content for everyone. The incentive for conflict in this game mostly isn't taking your spot. It's taking your stuff, and all the time you sank to collect it.
Even if there isn't enough space for everyone, all that "you defending your spot" means is that I can come take your spoils and run, instead of spending all that time out there, vulnerable, to collect it myself.
Your farming time is more valuable than your spot. I'm gonna come steal it from your bags.
Fighting for spots is what's making them valuable to me, because if I manage to defend the spot and get (and in case of Ashes keep) its loot - that loot will be all the more valuable to me.
And if you bring more people to get that location's loot - I'll simply know for sure that it's a juicy spot to grind. I'll get my own people there to farm it even more and we'll have ourselves a fun time killing each other back and forth.
That's the whole soul of owpvp games to me. And, to me, losing mats will be no different from L2's "this player managed to kill you more times than you him, which directly decreased the amount of the location's loot you managed to get within the timeframe of you trying to farm it". And with flagged death penalties reducing the loot in half I wouldn't even lose all that much.
The only problem here is that all the pvers are in no way ready for this kind of gameplay and they'll definitely hate that you can do what you said you'd do. But that just means that they're not the target audience for the game. Or, at least the ones who refuse to seek help for these kinds of situations are.
Ludullu
1
Re: Is there a problem for solo players
You two really gonna keep this as black and white as possible, huh...?
Whew... just three more months or so...
So-called 'casual' players want to get something tangible out of playing for 2h blocks, where 'tangible' is defined as 'growth that they don't feel stupid for having pursued instead of whatever the hardcore players were doing'.
If they're not good enough to gain something from activity X, they want a reasonable activity Y to exist.
There is a floor to this, there is a playertype that needs to succeed to have fun, but only has the skill level required to succeed in the leveling phase of ThemeParks. The genre 'isn't doing well' because it can't appeal to both and still balance PvP unless we as players let go of the entitlement complex of hardcore players.
The game does not have to give me 6x as much loot as the average player because I happen to have 6x as much free time to play. Don't suppose we can stop arguing about the extreme ends of this spectrum?
Whew... just three more months or so...
So-called 'casual' players want to get something tangible out of playing for 2h blocks, where 'tangible' is defined as 'growth that they don't feel stupid for having pursued instead of whatever the hardcore players were doing'.
If they're not good enough to gain something from activity X, they want a reasonable activity Y to exist.
There is a floor to this, there is a playertype that needs to succeed to have fun, but only has the skill level required to succeed in the leveling phase of ThemeParks. The genre 'isn't doing well' because it can't appeal to both and still balance PvP unless we as players let go of the entitlement complex of hardcore players.
The game does not have to give me 6x as much loot as the average player because I happen to have 6x as much free time to play. Don't suppose we can stop arguing about the extreme ends of this spectrum?
Azherae
2
Re: Is there a problem for solo players
You will push this Shitshow Topic up until the Launch of Alpha Two and beyond that, will you ?
Someone has to win the forum PVP
Hinotori
3
Re: Player enemy visual Health Bar update on hit.
Either way, I'm gonna leave it, my involvement this time was as much a waste of time as the rest of the middle pages and I'm sorry to all for it.
Not at all, even if you might consider it a waste of your time, i personally highly appreciate your inputs in most of the conversations, so please, don't be sorry.
Re: Ashes of Creation must dodge this bullet
We already know that is a bogus definition since RPGs do not have to be computer games.Specifically for you, here is the definition of RPG part from Cambridge Dictionary: "abbreviation for role-playing game: a computer game in which players control the actions of characters in an imaginary world."
Call Of Duty is not an RPG, but fits that Cambridge definition. Street Fighter also is not an RPG.
Nope. It was an OWPvP MMO Survival game with some RPG elements crammed into it at the end of Beta.Yeah, but... who cares what it was? The original New World, the one that was launched in 2021 was MMORPG (not what it was intended to be)
It was MMO and it was RPG, which means it was MMORPG
The point is that it doesn't have Class progression, so it makes no sense for you to compare the time it takes to reach max Level of anything in NW with the time it takes to reach max Class Level in an MMORPG.
Dygz
1