Greetings, glorious testers!
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest news on Alpha Two.
Check out general Announcements here to see the latest news on Ashes of Creation & Intrepid Studios.
To get the quickest updates regarding Alpha Two, connect your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest news on Alpha Two.
Check out general Announcements here to see the latest news on Ashes of Creation & Intrepid Studios.
To get the quickest updates regarding Alpha Two, connect your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Best Of
Re: Is there a problem for solo players
Exactly.Solo players need content. Small group (2-4) needs content. Medium group (8-16) needs content. Raids (40+) need content. Each group needs meaningful things to do while not invalidating the other. Catering to only one of these groups will only hurt retention and the revolving door that is MMO population
It is not only a group-competetive-owpvp game. Some minority of players reduce it to this single playing style for them personally. That's all.That's clear since MMO started to be on the market. But some MMOs lack to respect the players time and dont reward it in a meaningful way. I want Ashes to learn from history and experience and do it better. If a solo player invests his time in his challenging content he should get reasonable stuff. Will a raid-group get more? Yeah sure, but that never was the topic or at least never my (!) point in this discussion.Solo players need a place in the world, but they have to keep in mind soloing is harder than being in a group. Ashes as a game needs to help players find groups organically through quest design, level up dungeons, character progression etc.
It's confirmed hiere. All playstyles are wanted and needed.
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Playstyles
I don't want to discuss with other persons feeling and thinking that the game is their owpvp-whatsoever-copy from an old, aged or dead game, because it's not.
It's very much an open world game that involves the possibility of pvp. That said, ashes should focus on getting people to organically find guilds and nodes that enjoy content catering to each player.
The real question solo players should ask is not how am I rewarded, but how does ashes help me find a guild.
KingDDD
2
Re: Player enemy visual Health Bar update on hit.
So how come Ashes is different? (talking about the quoted part specifically)There were options to avoid competition, as the game allowed you to do a ton of other stuff, besides just PvP related stuff.
1. You have 1200sq km of world map and 85/100 nodes to choose from
2. In vast majority of cases during unpleasant encounters there will be a way to disengage and/or deescalate
3. Even when it comes to caravans, Ashes provides a lower risk/lower reward option which is using mules instead of a caravan.
4. Ashes also allows you to do a ton of other stuff, besides PvP related stuff.
....?
It is different because in Archeage, I had access to housing and I could gather mats that I grow myself, which I would then use in crafting.
In Ashes, I either won't have that ability, or the housing that I do get will be very limiting in what you can and cannot do, and the scope/size itself.
I had an option to do safe trade runs, where I spend mats that I farmed, and my time, in order to get some gold. In Ashes, there isn't such option.
I had an option to do instanced dungeons that gave me rewards, and gear. In Ashes, so far it doesn't look like that will be the case.
This was majority of my time spent in game anyways, doing exactly that. And then came group content 2x a week, whether it was RD PvP or Kraken, or risky, group trade runs that can be run any time.
But here I am, doing it again, responding to an argument made against my post, where my post wasn't even meant to be an argument. I simply replied to @Ludullu_(NiKr) because he asked a question.
Besides, this argument is not really relevant to the post, so I don't want to engage in it any further.
You should stop viewing everything as an argument that you need to respond to btw.
Also, we've been going in circles and off tangents constantly. I have offered a solution to this problem, so have other people.
Right now it's all about going on different tangents, and making up new arguments with every post.
iccer
1
Re: Concerns About Marketing and "Open Development" Approach
No, because if they were clear there wouldn't be so much backlash and ignoring the problem saying everything is fine, it's just people not understanding Intrepid doesn't bring us anywhere.They are clear as they are going to be already.
When the problem is people not understanding, there isn't anything else that can be said.
I mean, you are even saying that you see they are saying "don't buy it", but you see something different when you look at the livestreams. That is you seeing something other than what they are saying - that is the problem you are having.
Obviously they are going to put their best foot forward with their livestreams, but they know what the rest of the game is like and you don't. Those people that know what the game is like are saying "don't buy it", and you are looking at a small portion of it and being like "but I really want to".
What else can be said, honestly?
Noaani
4
Re: Concerns About Marketing and "Open Development" Approach
They are clear as they are going to be already. You are wanting them to market a game, they are marketing a "product." Their quote, not mine. You change words that have been presented to you to match your wants. The "Wave 3" of A2 is meant to be "persistent," not "permanent." There are differences in the two. So allowing the community to run wild with their own expectations does them no favors. Here are two quotes from Reddit with Steven addressing various "scandals" that people with bad intent towards their product like to try and spin into something. You can understand why you don't get to see "everything" with a "hop up on the table, spread your legs and let me have a good look" mentality you seem to want.
"Neither of which are a game."
"Neither of which are a game."
Re: Player enemy visual Health Bar update on hit.
Oh, so I definately just don't remember it.
Kind of getting stalker vibes from you now though.
Noaani
1
Re: Concerns About Marketing and "Open Development" Approach
No, because if they were clear there wouldn't be so much backlash and ignoring the problem saying everything is fine, it's just people not understanding Intrepid doesn't bring us anywhere.They are clear as they are going to be already.
And last, the % of people that read this kind of reddit posts against the ones that only follow the game through the livestream is way too low. It's like shouting I'M SELLING THIS AMAZING PRODUCT but whispering after so many people pre-ordered the product : 'it's not quite like on the advertising btw"
All I'm saying is that what they should show be what they're saying, don't say the game is full of bugs if you don't show any.
Falkath
1
Re: Concerns About Marketing and "Open Development" Approach
Good posting. I've the same conerns and worries.
And I'm also "here" because I like Ashes (or what is promised to me) but I am, as always, throwing in my critical perspective as devil's advocate because the gap between marketing/player attraction and open/agile development (which seems just to exist to get legitimation instead of real feedback to the struggles that were not shown to us until now) is just there, as you've already summarized well.
Communication is key.
And I'm also "here" because I like Ashes (or what is promised to me) but I am, as always, throwing in my critical perspective as devil's advocate because the gap between marketing/player attraction and open/agile development (which seems just to exist to get legitimation instead of real feedback to the struggles that were not shown to us until now) is just there, as you've already summarized well.
Communication is key.
Chaliux
1
Re: Player enemy visual Health Bar update on hit.
Ludullu_(NiKr) wrote: »
Which is why I think the system is flawed to begin with. You're never going to hit that razor think mark of balance, and you are always going to get complaints from either side of the argument.
Ludullu_(NiKr) wrote: »Ok, but Noaani said that in AA people did have enough content to not really go to the same extent of competition that L2's players did.But this isn't particularly related to whether or not health bars should be shown, so I didn't want to bother with it. All I know is that using L2 as the blueprint and saying 'I want it to be designed this way because OTHERWISE an L2 problem will happen' doesn't make sense when you are countered by 'I don't think it needs to be designed that way because AA did it that way and the problem didn't happen'.
So which approach has the higher chance of impacting the amount of PKing and the abuse of said PKing?
We have @iccer as well. Iccer, how much content competition did you experience in AA and how much did people kill each other during that competition if there was any?
Competition was there.
- World bosses: You'd often see several guilds competing for a kill, mostly faction vs faction, but ofc with some guilds it can always be in-faction fighting as well. Whether those were sea bosses, like kraken, or land bosses that dropped valuable loot. My favorite moments from AA were from Red Dragon PvP.
- Events like CR & GR: Appear a few times a day, you can often see reds coming in to ruin the party, even if it's meant to be a daily event without any meaningful loot drops.
- You'd even have competition for housing: When a certain plot is about to expire, people would gather around. Often you'd see people PK other's in order to eliminate the competition.
- Trade runs in general, especially going with a ship: You were always at risk of PvP and getting your shit stolen.
The thing is, Archeage allowed you a low risk, lower reward option as well. You could do traderuns in safe zones, which would obviously not be as rewarding, you had stuff to do outside of PvP competition. But the "main" group content was always PvP related.
There were options to avoid competition, as the game allowed you to do a ton of other stuff, besides just PvP related stuff.
iccer
2
Concerns About Marketing and "Open Development" Approach
Hey everyone,
First off, let me say that I absolutely love this project. Ashes of Creation is the only game I’m truly excited for, and I want to see it succeed more than anything. This isn’t about pointing fingers at the devs or Steven Sharif, but rather sharing some concerns that I think are causing frustration within the community, in the hope that they can be addressed. I won't talk about the FOMO marketing as people have already spoke about this one enough.
The Marketing Dilemma
The team has been marketing Alpha 2 for a while now, while consistently saying, “Don’t buy it; it’s a true alpha, not a finished game.” Yet, for the past three years, what we’ve been shown is the most polished version of the game possible. The livestreams, updates, and teasers look fantastic, almost bug-free. This doesn’t feel like a genuine attempt to gather feedback on core systems, but more like a polished marketing showcase.
This creates a disconnect between expectations and reality. We’re constantly shown the shiny, polished side of the game, but we know that’s not what a real alpha looks like. Where are the game-breaking bugs? The half-finished systems? By only showing the polished content, the expectation becomes that Alpha 2 will look as perfect as what we see in livestreams and that’s simply unrealistic.
The "Open Development" Issue
Which brings me to the question of open development. While Ashes is certainly more open than most other games, can it really be called open development when all we see are the successes and not the struggles? For example, Alpha 2 was initially slated for Q3 2024, but now the permanent phase isn’t expected until May 2025. Everyone understands that game development involves delays, but we don’t understand why these delays are happening. What went wrong? What challenges have the team encountered?
Right now, it feels more like marketed development than truly open development. And that’s frustrating the community. People don’t just want to see the highlights, as WE want to understand both the good and the bad.
A Path Forward
To address this, I think clearer communication is key. The community can handle knowing about delays and challenges, but we need to know why they’re happening. If a system isn’t working, or there’s a major issue causing a delay, be transparent with us. The community is deeply invested in this game, and we understand that development is messy. By sharing both the progress and the setbacks, the team can better manage expectations and maintain trust.
Again, I say this because I believe in this game and want to see it succeed. Many of us are here for the long haul, but we need a clearer, more honest picture of development and not just hidden marketing.
Thanks for taking the time to read this. I’m excited for what’s to come, and I hope this feedback helps us all stay on the same page as we move forward with Ashes of Creation.
First off, let me say that I absolutely love this project. Ashes of Creation is the only game I’m truly excited for, and I want to see it succeed more than anything. This isn’t about pointing fingers at the devs or Steven Sharif, but rather sharing some concerns that I think are causing frustration within the community, in the hope that they can be addressed. I won't talk about the FOMO marketing as people have already spoke about this one enough.
The Marketing Dilemma
The team has been marketing Alpha 2 for a while now, while consistently saying, “Don’t buy it; it’s a true alpha, not a finished game.” Yet, for the past three years, what we’ve been shown is the most polished version of the game possible. The livestreams, updates, and teasers look fantastic, almost bug-free. This doesn’t feel like a genuine attempt to gather feedback on core systems, but more like a polished marketing showcase.
This creates a disconnect between expectations and reality. We’re constantly shown the shiny, polished side of the game, but we know that’s not what a real alpha looks like. Where are the game-breaking bugs? The half-finished systems? By only showing the polished content, the expectation becomes that Alpha 2 will look as perfect as what we see in livestreams and that’s simply unrealistic.
The "Open Development" Issue
Which brings me to the question of open development. While Ashes is certainly more open than most other games, can it really be called open development when all we see are the successes and not the struggles? For example, Alpha 2 was initially slated for Q3 2024, but now the permanent phase isn’t expected until May 2025. Everyone understands that game development involves delays, but we don’t understand why these delays are happening. What went wrong? What challenges have the team encountered?
Right now, it feels more like marketed development than truly open development. And that’s frustrating the community. People don’t just want to see the highlights, as WE want to understand both the good and the bad.
A Path Forward
To address this, I think clearer communication is key. The community can handle knowing about delays and challenges, but we need to know why they’re happening. If a system isn’t working, or there’s a major issue causing a delay, be transparent with us. The community is deeply invested in this game, and we understand that development is messy. By sharing both the progress and the setbacks, the team can better manage expectations and maintain trust.
Again, I say this because I believe in this game and want to see it succeed. Many of us are here for the long haul, but we need a clearer, more honest picture of development and not just hidden marketing.
Thanks for taking the time to read this. I’m excited for what’s to come, and I hope this feedback helps us all stay on the same page as we move forward with Ashes of Creation.
Falkath
6
Re: Is there a problem for solo players
In avarage, I'm representing "Middle-Europe, western part of it". You can for sure make the conclusion, that my understanding of MMOs and PvE, PvP and PvX or solo, group, raid or casual or hardcore gaming is derived from that "culture".I understand this game isn’t made for everyone, but now, after reading this forum for days, I’m curious about which country’s demographic will dominate it. From my past experience with other MMOs, I’ve seen games starting as English-based servers but gradually became dominated by BR (Brazilian) players. It’s important for Intrepid Studios to consider behavioral patterns from previous MMOs when designing specific features, mechanics, and systems. Ignoring these patterns could lead to imbalances among different demographic groups. Ending up with a game made for a specific demographic culture group", alienating the rest.
In other words: In real life, we have everything, quite close to that. Challening hard jobs (also challening high taxes, lol), (nearly) everyting you can buy with money, prospering lifes, families, kids, houses, garden, pools, stable countries. Of course that is a hyperbole and there are difference and expections, a lot of them. But in general, middle- and western European players just completely think and play different than Asian, Russian or whatever players are doing. For my personally, that's a reall really good thing, because diversity increases and more games to select from are there (I've played FF14 with satisfation up to a certain point, but in general I dont like the art sytle, I dont like anime, I dont like thick cartoonish cats -> and the "avarage" European guy will cofirm this stereotypical thinking).
We only want entertainment in virtual life, nothing more. Majority of us is not defining fun all the time as "competion" or "investing as much time as possible". There is no e-peen discussion needed. We have all the stuff in real life, we don't need to prove anything within a game or to anybody playing it. This changed 15years ago, so that was only valid in the first 1-5 years of MMOs popping out. But we are not in the 2000 anymore, lol.
There is no need flee in a virtual life and to do exclusion there because of elitist thinking. This is a massive multiplayer online (role play game), an MMO(RPG). That's what it is. And that's why players are attracted and the want to play it in a 3rd person sytle, a high fantasy setting with good graphics, combat, features and both PvE and PvP, for all playing style.
It is NOT for owpvp or pvp-only, it is NOT for raid-groups only, that only the desire of a minority of players that defend their own desire of how to play a game. They will see in the future that it is different.
But, that seems to be or must be also a culture topic, that games or designs like L2 are wanted/desired, because that one, for instance, was not that popular at all in my cultural environment. All of us (99%) played WoW at this time, for sure.
Chaliux
1