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Ludullu_(NiKr) wrote: »

Real funny that your mind went immediately towards scamming.

Giggled for a second after reading this, cuz I thought the same. How dare you expect people to understand what "regionalized economy" means?

@Chaliux meaning no offence to you, just kidding

Ludullu_(NiKr) wrote: »

I'd be really interested to know if there's been research on how many casual players go outside of the game to interact with the game's systems.

I'm sure the % is way bigger than it was in the ye olden times, but what is it roughly these days.

I don't personally know of any, and have not looked in to this myself. It does seem more common for people to look out of game for walkthroughs and such, so I would have to assume that translates in to other areas as long as there is no real friction (from an internet access perspective) in doing so.

What I do know though, in a game like Ashes, casual players aren't going to be the driving factor of the economy. While it is absolutely true that in some games they are, that is really not something that happens in games with an economy like Intrepid seem to want for Ashes (looking at the Archeage and EVE economies here - casual players as a collective were near insignificant in regards to the economy).

The other thing to keep in mind in regards to Ashes economy is location.

A big pile of iron ore will be worth less in a node without a smelter than it would be in a node with one. That is likely to have more of an impact on the price of raw and processed materials than any kind of chat channel would.

Chaliux wrote: »

Well that's a scam-mentality, right?

Real funny that your mind went immediately towards scamming.

I was talking about "this item costs 1k to make. Selling it somewhere where it doesn't exist (and this is exactly the type of economic design Intrepid are going for) would garner a bigger price exactly due to supply/demand. So now, why would a person sell that item locally when they can upsell it to someone from across the server purely because they can easily connect with them through global chat".

None of that is "a scam". It's literally how supply/demand works, as I understand it. But it still directly influences local costs, cause nothing is local anymore.

Noaani wrote: »

Having a global chat isn't going to mean there is suddenly a global market. If anything, due to alts, forums, discord and such, that global market already exists.

I'd be really interested to know if there's been research on how many casual players go outside of the game to interact with the game's systems.

I'm sure the % is way bigger than it was in the ye olden times, but what is it roughly these days.

To me, anyone who goes to those lengths (and I know that for us, hardcore people, these are not "lengths", but still) - deserves to get the money they can get through it.

P.S. forgot to mention this

Chaliux wrote: »

Today we know, from history, what happend with both games. One is releasing Addon after Addon (now with an entire new trilogy) + revivial of the "old" gameplay (WoW Classic) and the other MMO is quite dead (obviously because of bad developer decisions, whatever - I'm conviced it's not only that, but nobody wants to discuss that).

L2 has also released addons all throughout the last 20 years

It has also released "classic" servers of several types. Btw it came out 5 years before WoW's as well


And as I said before, WoW has lost insane amounts of people, also due to dev decisions. It's simply that WoW had more to begin with, cause it was way more casual than L2 back in 2004 and was also riding the hype of Blizz as a studio and WC3 as an incredible game from said studio, so the overall hype for it was way higher.

In other words, games are literally identical in their history (L2's classic servers also brought a ton of people back into the game and had a ton of hype behind it, just as WoW's did). Both games got ruined by p2w that came directly from the devs as well. Both games are crawling with bots that devs barely do anything about.

The only proper difference is that NCsoft were way more successful with their foray into mobile versions of the game, while Blizz haven't really tried adapting WoW to phones, which imo is a surprisingly non-greedy decision, cause they coulda made insane money in it.

Ludullu_(NiKr) wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

Ludullu_(NiKr) feel free to correct me if you think the above isn't accurate.

Yes, that is correct. But it's also the case that Steven liked the same game, took quite a few mechanics from that game into Ashes and even kept them with, what some people consider, the same faults.

Sure, there are a number of things they are keeping in Ashes from L2 - with that in mind, I'm sure you can recall me pointing out to people complaining about the corruption system that it's "probably" fine as we currently understand it.

I don't think I've ever said everything in L2 was bad, or that nothing from it is worth using in an MMORPG today. In much the same way I see good and bad in EQ2, I see good and bad in L2. However, it tends to be the bad from it that we talk about the most.

Noaani wrote: »

It's funny, this kind of chat spam only really happens in WoW. It wasn't an issue in EQ2, nor in Archeage.

The spam I'm talking about is "just a shitton of people talking all at once", not necessarily one person spamming random stuff or RMTers/traders pushing stuff.

Speaking of the good from EQ2 - the game all but eliminated RMT spam in it's chat. We would get maybe a message a year come through the filter they set up.

So, from my perspective, RMT spam is literally a matter of "how much do the developers care", and so isn't worth much discussion.

As to spam from multiple people, I generally find that the more engaged in the game the playerbase is, the less they sit there talking in chat. If it turns out that Ashes has a shitload of people talking all at once, perhaps Intrepid need to better entertain those people.

Noaani wrote: »

See, I interact with the whole server, whether they are in front of me or not.

And this, as is the point about global trade messages, are a preference for in-game interactions. Which then relates to the overall design.

I already gave the example of inter-guild info interactions and how randoms could spoil that part of gameplay. And the same applies for trade. If trade messages can be broadcasted globally - that changes the market interactions and pricings, cause if the entire server knows that a thing is sold at a particular trader - that changes what kind of prices that trader can push for. If the trader can get someone to pay a way higher price for their thing - why would they sell their product for less to someone who's nearer to them?

I'm not 100% sure I undertand your concern here.

Having a global chat isn't going to mean there is suddenly a global market. If anything, due to alts, forums, discord and such, that global market already exists.

Noaani wrote: »

Ludullu_(NiKr) feel free to correct me if you think the above isn't accurate.

Yes, that is correct. But it's also the case that Steven liked the same game, took quite a few mechanics from that game into Ashes and even kept them with, what some people consider, the same faults.

Noaani wrote: »

It's funny, this kind of chat spam only really happens in WoW. It wasn't an issue in EQ2, nor in Archeage.

The spam I'm talking about is "just a shitton of people talking all at once", not necessarily one person spamming random stuff or RMTers/traders pushing stuff.

Noaani wrote: »

See, I interact with the whole server, whether they are in front of me or not.

And this, as is the point about global trade messages, are a preference for in-game interactions. Which then relates to the overall design.

I already gave the example of inter-guild info interactions and how randoms could spoil that part of gameplay. And the same applies for trade. If trade messages can be broadcasted globally - that changes the market interactions and pricings, cause if the entire server knows that a thing is sold at a particular trader - that changes what kind of prices that trader can push for. If the trader can get someone to pay a way higher price for their thing - why would they sell their product for less to someone who's nearer to them?

@Azherae pls tell me if I'm wrong in that assumption. And just to make clear, I'm not saying that worldwide marketplace would magically TP items across the server. I'm saying that global chat would directly influence pricings, cause competition would be drastically different. Is that a wrong assumption?

I also see the absence of worldwide market as another indicator that this kind of interaction is unwanted. Sure, Steven may change his mind and implement it after enough people complain, but for now I feel like it's a point towards my argument against global chat.

And then this exact interaction also addresses the point of "just turn it off if you dislike it". While I like shooting myself in the foot by choosing the dumbest gameplay style and sticking to it (as evident by my Starfield play hours or by my AC6 gameplay videos) - I do feel like it's unfair to tell people "just give up the advantage if you dislike the form this advantage comes in".

If you want to stay on top of trading and/or inter-guild info - you have to parse global chat. And if global chat is available to all (as seems to be the notion here) - chat will be filled with random discussion by random people, cause, as you say yourself, "people are talking to the entire server", so each message in chat can be potentially interacting with any other message in that chat, which inevitably creates a mess of off-topic stuff, which I personally see as spam.

Flanker wrote: »

How did even get to this discussion? How is it relevant? A gentleman whose name I won't mention decided to switch topic to something that makes no sense again?

This is a way you can shut down a thread you don't like the feedback being given.

Chaliux wrote: »

WoW did a huge evolution during the years

To me, this is the main reason WoW is still a thing and L2 really isn't.

How did even get to this discussion? How is it relevant? A gentleman whose name I won't mention decided to switch topic to something that makes no sense again?