Glorious Alpha Two Testers!
Alpha Two Phase III testing has begun! During this phase, our realms will be open every day, and we'll only have downtime for updates and maintenance. We'll keep everyone up-to-date about downtimes in Discord.
If you have Alpha Two, you can download the game launcher here, and we encourage you to join us on our Official Discord Server for the most up to date testing news.
Alpha Two Phase III testing has begun! During this phase, our realms will be open every day, and we'll only have downtime for updates and maintenance. We'll keep everyone up-to-date about downtimes in Discord.
If you have Alpha Two, you can download the game launcher here, and we encourage you to join us on our Official Discord Server for the most up to date testing news.
Best Of
Re: Steven, Please Rethink “Not for Everyone”
TheDarkSorcerer wrote: »1. Saying a game is “not for everyone” in 2025 just feels out of touch.
Steven recently said Ashes of Creation is “not for everyone.” And sure, maybe that’s meant to sound bold or unapologetic, but in reality, it’s a limiting take that could end up doing more harm than good.
In 2025, sticking to your vision doesn’t mean shutting people out. Look at Baldur’s Gate 3 or Expeditions. Both are turn-based RPGs, a genre that historically had “niche” written all over it. But those studios didn’t say “this isn’t for you.” Instead, they kept the heart of the game intact and made it easier for new players to jump in. Now look where they are.
Ashes should be doing the same. Saying "we're not for everyone" might feel like drawing a line in the sand, but it ends up sounding more like a closed door. And if the first impression people get is that this game isn’t welcoming or worth their time unless they’re already hardcore, you’re losing them before they even log in.
2. That mindset doesn't just affect the players, it affects the team too.
When the founder says something like that, it’s not just players listening. The industry is listening. And let’s be real, this isn’t 2015 anymore. It’s not an employer’s market. The best talent wants to work on games that feel exciting, future-facing, and like they’ll actually reach a big audience.
If Ashes is being positioned as a selective, high-barrier MMO, that narrows the pool of people who want to work on it. It’s not just about taste, it’s about stability. A game with long-term growth potential is way more appealing than one that already feels like it’s limiting itself before launch.
The game runs on a subscription model. That only works if new players are constantly coming in and sticking around. But right now, the early and mid-game experience feels like an afterthought. It’s all grindy, high-investment content focused on end-game PvP. Most players won’t even make it there. If the game doesn’t widen its reach, it’ll struggle to keep a big team employed, plain and simple.
3. The “not for everyone” line sends the wrong message.
Nobody’s saying Ashes should be watered down. No one’s asking it to become a theme park MMO. But when leadership says “this isn’t for everyone,” it feels like a warning instead of an invitation.
Ashes already has a lot going for it, complex systems, big ideas, and a community that wants this game to win. But the way it's being framed right now makes it feel like it's only meant for a specific type of player. That’s not how you grow a game. That’s how you shrink your audience before it even has a chance to expand.
Steven, with all respect, this isn’t just about wording. It’s about the message you're putting out into the world. And right now, that message feels a little too boxed in for a game that should be aiming way higher.
Maybe the "it's not for everyone" could hurt overall pre-sales. Maybe not. I think Steven is just trying to be as open as possible, and the truth is, is the game isn't for everyone. BG3 isn't for everyone. I love CRPGS and a coop on top of the depth was awesome. But no matter how good it is I can't get some friends to play it even if I bought it for them. They just don't like those games. Most gamers are going to know if it's for them or not, eventually at least. It's still really earlier. I see the "we're not for everyone" as a drawing of a line in the sand. They're not going to try to please every group of players, they're focusing on their take on pvx. A sure way to piss everyone off is to try to please everyone. No game can be for everyone.
I'm really confused about the statement "limiting itself before launch.". What's being limited here? We're still about two years from launch, maybe a little less if we're lucky. They're in full scale development mode, not advertising. The games not complete, there are systems and assets not even in the game lol, of course it feels limited.
Sub vs no sub model debate. In my experience sub games are better and last longer, being sub helps keep the team away from p2w bs in cash shops. To each their own, so people hate subs. To me I'd paid more than 15 a month for a premium mmorpg. Other's wouldn't. I don't know what success is to Steven, but he's not worried about the money as far I can tell. I assume success to him is going to be a couple healthy realms mostly full of players exploring the game and fighting it out over resources. There'll need to be updates to keep people interested. Playing any game that relies on the players to make the content dies fast.
To me when I head "it's not for everyone". It means they aren't pandering to people to buy in for their money. They're sticking to their principals and vision. It's a good thing.
I'm not sure what you expect from the game. It's not supposed to be like anything else out there, so I've just taken the position to expect the unexpected and hope I'm pleased with it. Are they losing some sells by their choice of words, yes, but are they gaining some, yes, which is more? Are they making a niche game? Probably. Will it be successful? Probably. Still too early to tell on much of it. Right now the game is in alpha and it's a heavy grind through broken, unfinished, and placeholder systems if it's fun great, if not, well fun isn't the target right now, just needs to work. I wouldn't judge the release version by what you see today or even in a year.
Volgaris
1
Re: Steven, Please Rethink “Not for Everyone”
MMORPG's tend to drop 75% or so of their developers after launch.
There just isn't the same workload in maintaining an MMORPG and making post launch content as there is in making the game in the first place.
Ohh i REALLY hope Intrepid will keep more People in the Team. Because it is apparently not thaaat huge a Team to begin with.
Plus they could immediately go and work on Expansions and new Content in general.
Aszkalon
1
Re: Steven, Please Rethink “Not for Everyone”
MMORPG's tend to drop 75% or so of their developers after launch.TheDarkSorcerer wrote: »That mindset is great, but it doesn’t pay the salaries of 100+ employees for years to come.I don't know what success is to Steven, but he's not worried about the money as far I can tell. I assume success to him is going to be a couple healthy realms mostly full of players exploring the game and fighting it out over resources.
There just isn't the same workload in maintaining an MMORPG and making post launch content as there is in making the game in the first place.
Some companies move them on to other games, some just end their employment.
Noaani
1
Re: PVP Jumping
Hello everyone. I do not know if pvp jumping was discussed here, I stopped going to the forum a long time ago, I only watch presentations on twitch and videos on YouTube. Every time I watch a pvp video in ashes of creation on YouTube, absolutely all players click the space button. As a result, there are 10-20 people on the screen who jump endlessly, all the players just press space space space. It looks really bad((
You think people having fun looks bad?
you know what I mean)
No, I don't.
You have an issue with people jumping around in game, when all those people are doing is having some fun. Thus, it seems to me that you have an issue with people having fun.
However, it is my assumption that you have no intention of saying you have an issue with people having fun, which is why I do not, in fact, know what you mean.
Noaani
2
Re: An Appeal
He's not wrong though. The demographic of people that has the finances to support these games has changed.
New World was initially "hardcore" and altered drastically to support the casual because it was not financially sustainable. And even the most casual tester is probably more "hardcore" than the average player that will try the game.
New World was initially "hardcore" and altered drastically to support the casual because it was not financially sustainable. And even the most casual tester is probably more "hardcore" than the average player that will try the game.
oddstero
1
Re: PVP Jumping
This has been brought up. The silliness of the popcorn battles. Some say to add a stam cost to jumping. I lean towards a stam cost for jumping, not to stop the popcorn battles but to add to the overall traversal system. I'm not sure if the popcorn battles look bad though, I get blinded by all the VFX!
Volgaris
4
Re: PVP Jumping
Hello everyone. I do not know if pvp jumping was discussed here, I stopped going to the forum a long time ago, I only watch presentations on twitch and videos on YouTube. Every time I watch a pvp video in ashes of creation on YouTube, absolutely all players click the space button. As a result, there are 10-20 people on the screen who jump endlessly, all the players just press space space space. It looks really bad((
You think people having fun looks bad?
Noaani
4
Re: Node Level Confusion.
As people have mentioned, this is testing. Any kind of static dungeon will have a certain level range (in this case, they may have been sloppy and said Jundark instead of a certain area of Jundark). Also, since we haven't seen all the charactor or node levels yet, they are setting some static instead of dynamic for the testing.
Did they mean the Jundark node (there are probably more than one), or zone? I think it is more important that the define what they mean by node / zone / area when they mention these things.
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Zones_and_progression
On the Wiki from Steven:
We don’t have a strictly level 25 zone. Instead, that zone might have some level 10 creatures near the road, some level 20 creatures deep in the forest, and some level 30 creatures up the mountain. These ratios will change based on the Nodes that inform them, becoming generally more dangerous as the Node grows. All this civilization attracts the attention of Things-That-Should-Not-Be. This does not mean that wilderness areas are safe, by any means. Some may be safe-er, but all will have dangers that even the most experienced traveler needs to watch out for.[6] – Steven Sharif
Did they mean the Jundark node (there are probably more than one), or zone? I think it is more important that the define what they mean by node / zone / area when they mention these things.
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Zones_and_progression
On the Wiki from Steven:
We don’t have a strictly level 25 zone. Instead, that zone might have some level 10 creatures near the road, some level 20 creatures deep in the forest, and some level 30 creatures up the mountain. These ratios will change based on the Nodes that inform them, becoming generally more dangerous as the Node grows. All this civilization attracts the attention of Things-That-Should-Not-Be. This does not mean that wilderness areas are safe, by any means. Some may be safe-er, but all will have dangers that even the most experienced traveler needs to watch out for.[6] – Steven Sharif
Re: Broken Quests As I Come Across Them
JaceGrimblade wrote: »Cloak and Gavel still not able to be completed
The chest to complete "Cloak and Gavel" is on a ledge in eastern Lionhold. In the attached pic, stand on the cliff keeping the stone arches on your left and look west and down. Drop down on the ledge to use the rusty key and complete the quest.
The coin you receive is not a quest-starter item. Instead, go to Winstead and walk over to the forge in the crafting/market area. An NPC named Randall Grimes is standing next to a chest and some crates. Normally he will ask for a password you do not have when you interact with him, but now that you possess the coin, you can show it to him to advance the questline.
The quests you can take from the book on his left are the quests that were available in an earlier alpha-2 build from the podium where Keelhaul is now in the Ruins of Aela. Now that you posses the coin, Keelhaul offers a quest as well.
The changes you're requesting to make the Alpha more fun and rewarding would hurt the game.
There have been a lot of calls for the alpha to make things easier and more accessible, demanding less time and work, and making rewards less gatekept by competition (that might push some players out of the race entirely.) This concerns crafting skills, resource distribution, mob farming accessibility, solo gameplay viability, etc.
The general request is roughly "Make the game more fun. Either make everything that's fun more available to the average player, or add more placeholder fun things until the real fun things are in the game."
Here's the example comment on YouTube that I'll use as a placeholder for many of the requests I've seen around the forum:
[Edit because it has become clear that the intention of my criticism has not been communicated very clearly:
I am not criticising profession initiation systems on their own merit. I am criticising the problems they tend to bring with them down the line, and that I believe most people who request these types of changes in the alpha right now (more resource access, etc.) are really implying when they are asking for things like initiation systems. For more details on these ideas and where they come from, you'll need to read on.]
The problem with this is that it feeds into the "everyone does everything" mindset that ultimately just promotes the type of meaningless time waster gameplay that WoW and its infinite copies consist of.
This is neither better nor worse than the "meaningful time waster" (I used "meaningful" in the sense of: you're building towards something) that is pure grinding gameplay. Neither of these are a good thing, but at least the grinding gameplay leaves room to turn into the holy grail that is meaningful, worthwhile, enjoyable engagement in the long run.
Why do you need to craft mediocre items? What is the desire you're filling there?
- If it's gameplay variety, why do you need the game to reward you with mediocre rewards for the variety? You can already enjoy engaging in the artisanships of your choice if you choose to do so, why don't you just do it?
Isn't it immediately obvious that if the game starts meaningfully rewarding you for low-effort time investment, the efforts of passionate crafters will become meaningless, because you already get enough of your rewards for your own activities not to need them? If you like running around engaging in simple artisanry, just to take in the scenery and enjoy a simple task, why do you need the game to hold you by the hand and make you do it; why should that be something the game needs to do for you?
- If it's for the sensation of pursuing readiness for battle, why do you want the game to impose that need on you? Why not just head out there to engage in artisanship as long as that's what you want to do, and then do other things when you no longer enjoy it for the low reward it yields?
- Or if you feel that the need to have strong gear is already in the game to pursue the type of content you want to pursue, why do you need to make it yourself; especially if you'd be okay with mediocre gear anyway? Why can you not use the currency you've saved to spend on worthwhile gear other people have crafted?
You shouldn't need to craft mediocre items, except to practice the skill that will eventually allow you to craft sensational items. If that's not what you aspire to do, why do you need the game to force or persuade you to start pursuing it anyway? If that is what you want to do, why do you need the game to reward you to do so much as get started, and why do you want it to persuade you to try out everything else?
I think a big issue here is a lack of vision for where "meaning" in the game could come from, if you'd declare your own purpose for your pursuits.
If your purpose of doing things in Verra breaks down to "get stronger for its own sake" and "complete more difficult quests and take down more difficult encounters for its own sake", you're missing so much potential of what a PvX game can be.
You're bound to get disappointed and bored on that path; it's a boring path.
The vision for a PvX game is to have a long-term vision of how you want your actions to shape the world. Collect resources to rule territories/nodes (or aid their leadership that you support), plan what the node should look like, what its objectives should be, and how the node should be constructed (buildings, hierarchy) to facilitate those goals. The vision is to siege, shape the story of the world quests, build guilds, and generally unite other players for shared objectives in how those plans should pan out.
If you expect to be wowed by the world without building your interest on these pillars, you're wasting most of the potential of the game. If that's all you want to do, then single-player RPGs and daily-driven MMOs - with solo quests and artisan professions that everyone who puts some time into can use to create anything they want for themselves - already exist. You're not supposed to be able to get yourself everything you want in Ashes. You're supposed to be required to cooperate with others, and accept that there will be some things you just won't have access to, unless you specialise in them and gather enough supporters around you. The upside is that when you achieve something, or help someone else achieve something, it's actually meaningful.
Some of these visions can't be experienced in the game yet. You can't experience the reshaping of the world yet, because the story arcs aren't set in place to make it meaningful, quests and dungeons in general aren't complete and numerous enough to let you immerse in the world yet, the node control and building options are limited in how they affect gameplay... You can't experience the full benefit of shaping your node to your vision yet, because the rewards and some of the content don't quite exist yet.
Asking for additional rewards and more accessible gameplay would be an empty band-aid solution. You'd own more and do more, but there still wouldn't be any profound connection, so you'd just spend more time on a superficial shell of a game because the rewards are more addictive.
If you're not having fun because you aren't immersed in the purpose of your gameplay, wait for the immersive features to be completed; don't just ask for the devs to entice you to waste more time on non-immersive, purposeless gameplay. No one needs you to sink 50 hours a week into an alpha. No one needs you to reach max-level at everything in an alpha. Focus on the fundamentals, and if you get bored from a lack of immersion and rewards, go play a finished game.
I think the devs should be better at instilling that vision in you.
Giving you a better idea of the options that will influence your decisions in the long term. The things that can be enticing about the game, that can spark your creativity.
But they shouldn't change the vision just to entertain you more in the alpha. They shouldn't speed up gameplay, so you feel more achieved or entertained when 80% of the content and player competition of the finished game simply don't exist yet. that would only distract from your agency in envisioning your own purpose for your gameplay; it would make the alpha experience less representative of the final gameplay, and thus lead to bad design and balancing decisions for the real game.
Instead of appeasing you by giving you more things to do and easier rewards for what you get to do, they should paint the picture of what you're not yet able to do. The things that will be added that will fit the puzzle together and make it a cohesive, rewarding gameplay experience.
Until that happens, either focus on growing your guild and planning your vision together, or just play something else.
*That's* what you should be asking for. Not a better chance to compete or more rewards. Just more insight on what new systems/quests/dungeons will be released, how it will fit into the systems that already exist to make them feel more meaningful, how it will be developed, and how long it is expected to take until you can see more of it.
The general request is roughly "Make the game more fun. Either make everything that's fun more available to the average player, or add more placeholder fun things until the real fun things are in the game."
I will make my case by addressing a common comment I've seen in the wild, and then tying it back to the greater vision for the alpha. I know it's not very popular to argue an opinion through proxy by creating a thread about a YouTube comment, but I've really seen this sentiment repeated *everywhere* over the last 2-3 months, and I think providing an example makes it a little more clear that I'm not just arguing against a made-up opinion. I'm choosing a YouTube comment instead of a forum comment, because it's untainted by the back-and-forth about insignificant details that a lot of forum comments tend to suffer from.
Here's the example comment on YouTube that I'll use as a placeholder for many of the requests I've seen around the forum:
[Edit because it has become clear that the intention of my criticism has not been communicated very clearly:
I am not criticising profession initiation systems on their own merit. I am criticising the problems they tend to bring with them down the line, and that I believe most people who request these types of changes in the alpha right now (more resource access, etc.) are really implying when they are asking for things like initiation systems. For more details on these ideas and where they come from, you'll need to read on.]
The problem with this is that it feeds into the "everyone does everything" mindset that ultimately just promotes the type of meaningless time waster gameplay that WoW and its infinite copies consist of.
This is neither better nor worse than the "meaningful time waster" (I used "meaningful" in the sense of: you're building towards something) that is pure grinding gameplay. Neither of these are a good thing, but at least the grinding gameplay leaves room to turn into the holy grail that is meaningful, worthwhile, enjoyable engagement in the long run.
Why do you need to craft mediocre items? What is the desire you're filling there?
- If it's gameplay variety, why do you need the game to reward you with mediocre rewards for the variety? You can already enjoy engaging in the artisanships of your choice if you choose to do so, why don't you just do it?
Isn't it immediately obvious that if the game starts meaningfully rewarding you for low-effort time investment, the efforts of passionate crafters will become meaningless, because you already get enough of your rewards for your own activities not to need them? If you like running around engaging in simple artisanry, just to take in the scenery and enjoy a simple task, why do you need the game to hold you by the hand and make you do it; why should that be something the game needs to do for you?
- If it's for the sensation of pursuing readiness for battle, why do you want the game to impose that need on you? Why not just head out there to engage in artisanship as long as that's what you want to do, and then do other things when you no longer enjoy it for the low reward it yields?
- Or if you feel that the need to have strong gear is already in the game to pursue the type of content you want to pursue, why do you need to make it yourself; especially if you'd be okay with mediocre gear anyway? Why can you not use the currency you've saved to spend on worthwhile gear other people have crafted?
You shouldn't need to craft mediocre items, except to practice the skill that will eventually allow you to craft sensational items. If that's not what you aspire to do, why do you need the game to force or persuade you to start pursuing it anyway? If that is what you want to do, why do you need the game to reward you to do so much as get started, and why do you want it to persuade you to try out everything else?
I think a big issue here is a lack of vision for where "meaning" in the game could come from, if you'd declare your own purpose for your pursuits.
If your purpose of doing things in Verra breaks down to "get stronger for its own sake" and "complete more difficult quests and take down more difficult encounters for its own sake", you're missing so much potential of what a PvX game can be.
You're bound to get disappointed and bored on that path; it's a boring path.
The vision for a PvX game is to have a long-term vision of how you want your actions to shape the world. Collect resources to rule territories/nodes (or aid their leadership that you support), plan what the node should look like, what its objectives should be, and how the node should be constructed (buildings, hierarchy) to facilitate those goals. The vision is to siege, shape the story of the world quests, build guilds, and generally unite other players for shared objectives in how those plans should pan out.
If you expect to be wowed by the world without building your interest on these pillars, you're wasting most of the potential of the game. If that's all you want to do, then single-player RPGs and daily-driven MMOs - with solo quests and artisan professions that everyone who puts some time into can use to create anything they want for themselves - already exist. You're not supposed to be able to get yourself everything you want in Ashes. You're supposed to be required to cooperate with others, and accept that there will be some things you just won't have access to, unless you specialise in them and gather enough supporters around you. The upside is that when you achieve something, or help someone else achieve something, it's actually meaningful.
Some of these visions can't be experienced in the game yet. You can't experience the reshaping of the world yet, because the story arcs aren't set in place to make it meaningful, quests and dungeons in general aren't complete and numerous enough to let you immerse in the world yet, the node control and building options are limited in how they affect gameplay... You can't experience the full benefit of shaping your node to your vision yet, because the rewards and some of the content don't quite exist yet.
Asking for additional rewards and more accessible gameplay would be an empty band-aid solution. You'd own more and do more, but there still wouldn't be any profound connection, so you'd just spend more time on a superficial shell of a game because the rewards are more addictive.
If you're not having fun because you aren't immersed in the purpose of your gameplay, wait for the immersive features to be completed; don't just ask for the devs to entice you to waste more time on non-immersive, purposeless gameplay. No one needs you to sink 50 hours a week into an alpha. No one needs you to reach max-level at everything in an alpha. Focus on the fundamentals, and if you get bored from a lack of immersion and rewards, go play a finished game.
I think the devs should be better at instilling that vision in you.
Giving you a better idea of the options that will influence your decisions in the long term. The things that can be enticing about the game, that can spark your creativity.
But they shouldn't change the vision just to entertain you more in the alpha. They shouldn't speed up gameplay, so you feel more achieved or entertained when 80% of the content and player competition of the finished game simply don't exist yet. that would only distract from your agency in envisioning your own purpose for your gameplay; it would make the alpha experience less representative of the final gameplay, and thus lead to bad design and balancing decisions for the real game.
Instead of appeasing you by giving you more things to do and easier rewards for what you get to do, they should paint the picture of what you're not yet able to do. The things that will be added that will fit the puzzle together and make it a cohesive, rewarding gameplay experience.
Until that happens, either focus on growing your guild and planning your vision together, or just play something else.
*That's* what you should be asking for. Not a better chance to compete or more rewards. Just more insight on what new systems/quests/dungeons will be released, how it will fit into the systems that already exist to make them feel more meaningful, how it will be developed, and how long it is expected to take until you can see more of it.
