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Re: Wait!! dull Grind, vertical Power Scaling and RNG Gear Enchanting?? WTF
All yall are forgetting about safe enchant scrolls.
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Enchanting
Personally, I am fine with RNG in enchantment, so long as there are special ways to mitigate the RNG with investment, to a degree. For example, difficult to obtain enchantment scrolls that insure enchantment efforts, and including a buffer of safe enchantment in earlier pluses.[12] – Steven Sharif
There's your "I'm fine with it taking longer to enchant, as long as it's safe" mechanism. No one is stopping you from putting in more effort to ensure that your enchant is completely safe.
Also
It's a progressive tier of risk. At lower levels you have opportunities to potentially lose out on the pluses instead of breaking the equipment. But when you reach a certain threshold, there is an opportunity to essentially destroy the equipment, where you get resources back. But that's a risk that the player takes.[8] – Steven Sharif
We'll get mats back, even when the item is destroyed. And depending on how stingy Steven is, those mats could range from 10-15% of an item's cost all the way to 60-70%.
On another point, this was enchanting in early A2 (curtesty of Flanker's YT video)
I personally hate that approach and do consider THAT design to be gambling. Mainly because the "lose a lvl" and "lose all lvls, but not the item" bs is what creates the gambling feel, in my opinion.
It muddies the waters of the activity to a point where instead of thinking "ok, am I prepared to lose this item or not", the person starts thinking "ok, if I'm lucky I only lose a single lvl. Though even losing all lvls would still be fine, cause this item is rare". This puts people further away from the thinking that Noaani is using for his argument.
Proper enchanters only OE an item that they have, at least, 2 copies of. The current design (dunno if they've changed it since 7 months ago) decreases the amount of people whose thought process would be binary enough to be that safe. Imo THAT is the problem with AoC's enchanting system.
Also, as a personal preference, I'd want the enchant chance to always remain the same 66%.
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Enchanting
Personally, I am fine with RNG in enchantment, so long as there are special ways to mitigate the RNG with investment, to a degree. For example, difficult to obtain enchantment scrolls that insure enchantment efforts, and including a buffer of safe enchantment in earlier pluses.[12] – Steven Sharif
There's your "I'm fine with it taking longer to enchant, as long as it's safe" mechanism. No one is stopping you from putting in more effort to ensure that your enchant is completely safe.
Also
It's a progressive tier of risk. At lower levels you have opportunities to potentially lose out on the pluses instead of breaking the equipment. But when you reach a certain threshold, there is an opportunity to essentially destroy the equipment, where you get resources back. But that's a risk that the player takes.[8] – Steven Sharif
We'll get mats back, even when the item is destroyed. And depending on how stingy Steven is, those mats could range from 10-15% of an item's cost all the way to 60-70%.
On another point, this was enchanting in early A2 (curtesty of Flanker's YT video)
I personally hate that approach and do consider THAT design to be gambling. Mainly because the "lose a lvl" and "lose all lvls, but not the item" bs is what creates the gambling feel, in my opinion.
It muddies the waters of the activity to a point where instead of thinking "ok, am I prepared to lose this item or not", the person starts thinking "ok, if I'm lucky I only lose a single lvl. Though even losing all lvls would still be fine, cause this item is rare". This puts people further away from the thinking that Noaani is using for his argument.
Proper enchanters only OE an item that they have, at least, 2 copies of. The current design (dunno if they've changed it since 7 months ago) decreases the amount of people whose thought process would be binary enough to be that safe. Imo THAT is the problem with AoC's enchanting system.
Also, as a personal preference, I'd want the enchant chance to always remain the same 66%.
Ludullu
3
Re: Wait!! dull Grind, vertical Power Scaling and RNG Gear Enchanting?? WTF
Those 2 points in bold seem like the real problem here. Rng enchantment is not really a problem when it doesn't lead to one-shots.Sophisticus wrote: »Heavy power scaling, one shots, long and boring grind, open world PvP and the fact that a few RNG-happy enhancers set the market price will lead to the same problems.
Ludullu
1
Re: Wait!! dull Grind, vertical Power Scaling and RNG Gear Enchanting?? WTF
It was optional in Archeage.Sophisticus wrote: »The combination or a strong vertical power scaling and open world PvP that leads to a one shot fiesta like in Archage will not make enhancing optional.
The bulk of my first guild didn't interact with regarding at all (we were first on our server to kill the Kraken). About half of my second guild didn't interact with it at all (this was more PvP focused).
The reason for this is simple - you can just buy shit.
Also keep in mind, while this game may be being created in America, it is essentially a Korean MMORPG at heart.
Noaani
1
Re: Wait!! dull Grind, vertical Power Scaling and RNG Gear Enchanting?? WTF
This would be a known shift in the market that players will be prepared for.There are seasons in AOC.
Caravans won't provide much of a shift in the market outside of very small nodes.
"The more RNG events you have, the more equal it makes players." this is only true when you look the Bigger picture. The probability that you will get bad luck on all RNG events is not 0. Multiply this by all players that will play AOC. So you will get some pretty high chance that someone will fail all RNG events multiple times, and other that will get all of those RNG events from first try. Thus - Unequal player experience.
This isn't how stats work.
If you look at just one upgrade of item, then you perhaps have a point. However, players in Ashes will have roughly 18 gear slots, and the expectation should be that each of them are upgraded at least 5 times in the year after hitting the level cap (there is no point in any of this before hitting the level cap), and each of those upgrades cane be enchanted several times.
So, there should never be a point where we are talking about one upgrade. We should always be talking about hundreds of successful enchants, and many thousands of attempts.
In a sample set as large as this, things balance out.
Take a simple roll of a dice, as an example. It is perfectly possible to roll the same number three times in a row. That isn't even statistically unusual.
If you roll that die 600 times, you are likely to have 100 of each number come up, but the variation could quite easily be 10% without it beign a statistical anomoly. If you roll it 6000 times, you are likely to be within perhaps 3% of 1000 of each.
However, when you roll that one die 60,000 times, the results will be within a very small margin of you getting 10,000 of each number. The variation is likely to be less than 0.5%.
A game with a small amount of highly important RNG would indeed be bad. The low number of attempts at that with the major impact a good result has absolutely would and does result in what you are talking about. However, the more rolls on that RNG players all have, the less of an impact it has between players.
Noaani
1
Re: Wait!! dull Grind, vertical Power Scaling and RNG Gear Enchanting?? WTF
There are other ways to keep the economy in unpredictable motion.
For example, through an RNG trash rate, more RNG in the procurement of the necessary materials or RNG events, etc.
But an RNG Gear Enchanting system that makes you weaker will only hurt you. All of us. You could leave it the way how the RNG Gear Enchanting works, if you keep the power scaling mostly horizontal and replace the boring mob grind with diverse and challenging events, open world dungeons and PvP battles.
But at the moment, most of the time you are busy with long boring grinds and as a low level player you get one shots by high level players.
For example, through an RNG trash rate, more RNG in the procurement of the necessary materials or RNG events, etc.
But an RNG Gear Enchanting system that makes you weaker will only hurt you. All of us. You could leave it the way how the RNG Gear Enchanting works, if you keep the power scaling mostly horizontal and replace the boring mob grind with diverse and challenging events, open world dungeons and PvP battles.
But at the moment, most of the time you are busy with long boring grinds and as a low level player you get one shots by high level players.
Re: Wait!! dull Grind, vertical Power Scaling and RNG Gear Enchanting?? WTF
This is only true if you are talking about a handful of RNG events.For me RNG is never good, because it creates unequal ground for players. From all players that play the game you will have results varying from someone getting multiple successful enchants in a row from the first try. and someone failing for the 50th time for the same item.
The more RNG events you have, the more equal it makes players.
As to why an amount of RNG is good, especially in an economic sense, it is because it keeps said economy shifting. If they went with your suggstion, then the market would be fairly stable on a day to day basic. Make it so that there is a good amount of randomness, and the market will shift and move on a day to day and week to week basis, even though over a longer period of time (year to year) the market is kind of stable.
This makes it more viable to play the economic game, especially the long game. It means there will be times when you don't want to buy materials, because they may be too expensive due to someone having bought up many.
This ability to influence the market was key to the economic side of Archeage (the best aspect of that game by a mile), and Ashes wants to go even further in that direction than that game did. In order to do that, a means to keep te market shifting is literally essential, and an amount of RNG to crafting is the only real way to do that.
That's exactly what I mean. This is exactly what is called gambling. You want RNG to make the economic side even more unpredictable than it would be with loot RNG or just player behavior. This gives your economic playstyle an additional thrill that would be almost impossible to predict = gambling.
That's not a bad thing to enjoy. It's just a matter of taste. But you shouldn't ignore the impact such RNG + vertical power scaling + long, boring grind and open world PvP will have on the overall game. As I argued, it will not have a good impact. And if this is not brought under control, then you won't have a vibrant economic game anymore.
Re: Human Looks
We are far from the final form and Steven has recently said the races are getting another pass coming up in P3!
Re: What Quality Does Intrepid Want Regards To Water/Effects?
It would be wonderful to slider the hell out of the visuals but the effort to provide that level of goodness for the few with enough PC to actually run it might be a drain on dev time.Can the Dev's not make this all optional ? How good or bad or lush or barren a Game will look ? So that every single Player can adjust the Setting just for themselves ?
I hate to say it, but you are starting to sound like me.
This was the exact answer I was about to give.
Noaani
1
Re: What Quality Does Intrepid Want Regards To Water/Effects?
It would be wonderful to slider the hell out of the visuals but the effort to provide that level of goodness for the few with enough PC to actually run it might be a drain on dev time.Can the Dev's not make this all optional ? How good or bad or lush or barren a Game will look ? So that every single Player can adjust the Setting just for themselves ?
Caww
2