Best Of
Re: Steven, Please Rethink “Not for Everyone”
Saabynator wrote: »As with many things in life - there is no never-ending well of money - at some point reality rears its ugly head...
While this is indeed true, it puts Intrepid in a bit of a position.
There are already large segments of the MMORPG community that will never be interested in Ashes. Steven's comments on combat trackers (not his decision, his obvious lack of understanding as to their function) has made it so every raiding community that i know of is no longer interested. That is quite literally millions of dedicated MMORPG players that will never again look at this game.Saabynator wrote: »Its like making a good dish, you take a bunch of good food and put it together.
The issue here is that in both cases, with food and with game design, it still takes knowledge and experience to get this right on a large scale.
You could take all the best foods you like and put them in to one dish, but if you dont know how food works, there is no guarantee it will work.
I like taleggio cheese, and i like salmon. There is no world in which these two foods should ever be on the same plate. Ideally, there is no world where these two foods should even be in concurrent courses in a multi-course meal.
On the other hand, white chocolate and caviar go together incredibly well, if executed by someone that can get the balance perfect.
Same with game design, different aspects that are great in some games wont all necessarily fit together in one game and result in a good game.
Placing limitations on crafters being able to get to the top end of crafting that only organized guilds are likely to be able to achieve can be a good mechanic. Making the vast majority of items in your game be player crafted can be a good thing. Putting these two things together, however, isn't necessarily a good thing.
Ashes is full of contradictions like this.
But, Steven is just opening the restaurant, he is not making the food. He just bought the place, made a so and so menu, and now he hired a bunch of chefs, to fuck around and find out. The menu will not be the same on day 1, as it will on opening day. He has a vision ofcource, but the food will change, when the chefs chimes in, and the people taste the appetizers
but steven is the one who get to say what dish stays and what dosent , if steven likes spicy lobster and a 100 people came and ate it , 90 of them said they dont like the way its done or just hate it all together and the chefs tell steven 90 people out of a 100 didnt like it so we have to change the way its done or to something else in a way where most people like it but steven refuses to because he likes it done that way even when most people dont.
Re: Intel Graphic Cards
Intel is just no where near AMD and GeForce level. No one beats green team for drivers. Intel's results are all over the place. They are a few years away from competing.
Re: What Quality Does Intrepid Want Regards To Water/Effects?
How exactly can it be a drain on dev time if it was done and programmed already Years ago ?
Each time a LOD (level of detail) is increased, the texture graphic required has to be created and tested, including what screen resolution it will be used in, and how all the higher textures fit together to avoid gaps, artifacts and things I know nothing about, so it can be time intensive. Planning for better graphics to be used sometime "in the future" doesn't work because newer graphic features become available as the GPU cards/DirectX and Unreal Engine progress their feature list that players will want, so what may have once looked desirable is now out of favor. If AoC does another engine upgrade then bumping everything up to current standards would justify all the texture rework. The other downside to providing extremely high graphics is the average player will want to max out but discover they can't run with a decent framerate which causes people to complain.
Caww
1
Running AoC on Mac
Did anyone manage to run AoC on Mac? I use CrossOver for installation process but it has errors and i cannot run the game. Any advices how to run it on Mac besides geting a gaming pc?
(I can buy a dedicated pc but I travel a lot and running through MAC is the key)
Thanks in advance for help
(I can buy a dedicated pc but I travel a lot and running through MAC is the key)
Thanks in advance for help
CaviGarv
1
Re: Phase 3 - Futur new player
What you'd be purchasing right now would be P3 access, because we've switched to it back in May. You'll also get access to the PTR client as well, though do remember that it has a visual nda on it, so no streaming/screenshots/video shown to people outside of the PTR testers and discord's PTR section.
As for price drops, afaik no info on that, because we're already in the lowest bundle price bracket.
As for price drops, afaik no info on that, because we're already in the lowest bundle price bracket.
Ludullu
1
Re: Amazing world, painfully dull grind
I recall during 1 of the early development updates (though I can't find the content on youtube) when Jeffery Bard was still Lead Game Designer, The was a question posed regarding MMO and the 'Grind' To which Bard responded and I paraphrase "Grinding sucks and it wont be the primary way to lvl in AOC"
I hope Bard's legacy holds true...
I hope Bard's legacy holds true...
Re: Wait!! dull Grind, vertical Power Scaling and RNG Gear Enchanting?? WTF
Now imagine seeing that for years, despite all of our feedback towards the opposite.Sophisticus wrote: »But since I've been paying more attention to progression in general the last few months, the more I see the opposite.
I don't understand how you guys can just accept this. You don't want Ashes to end up like so many Korean MMORPG's, do you?
Now you know why we just "accept it" (we don't btw).
Ludullu
1
Wait!! dull Grind, vertical Power Scaling and RNG Gear Enchanting?? WTF
This RNG gear enhancement, dull mob grind and strong vertical power scaling (In an open world PvP environment) undermines (almost) everything that is fun in a video game in general. There are 7 different basic video game design principles that determine gameplay fun.
1. competence & challenge
The player is challenged, but not overwhelmed. This creates the so-called flow state. Fun is created when you get better, overcome obstacles and surpass yourself in your abilities.
2. autonomy & freedom of choice
Players want to make meaningful decisions. Freedom of choice creates a sense of control and self-efficacy. Fun is created when you have the feeling: “I have an influence on this world.”
3. connectedness & social resonance
Multiplayer games, MMO´s, guilds, co-op: playing together (and against others) strengthens bonds and creates collective fun. Fun comes from community or emotional connection.
4. discovery & curiosity
Fun exploring worlds, mechanics or stories. The thirst for knowledge is rewarded.
The player thinks: “What else is out there?”
5. fantasy & aesthetics
The escape into other worlds, roles or perspectives. Many games offer emotional or visual experiences. Fun through aesthetic fascination or immersion.
6. narration & meaning
Stories and Interactions with meaning create emotional depth. You don't just experience something, you feel something. Fun is often more “meaningful” than entertaining.
7. reward & progress
Level-ups, loot, new skills - the progression system activates our reward system. Fun through measurable growth and feedback.
Principles 1-6 are inherent fun, i.e. the activities themselves are fun. No. 7 is external fun. The activities you do don't necessarily have to be fun, the rewards just have to be good enough to motivate you.
Ashes tries to apply all these principles. Intrepid also places great emphasis on No. 7 with a strongly vertical power scaling, long and dull mob grind and RNG gear enhancement.
1. strong vertical power scaling should increase the extrinsic motivation to make progress.
2. the grind should only artificially create playtime until you get the reward.
3. an RNG Gear Enhancement System should increase the thrill of the reward and thus reinforce it.
The problem, however, is that Ashes contradicts and damages many inherent fun principles with these three concepts, which all lead up to and reinforce #7.
The way in which Ashes #7 is motivated, prolonged and reinforced by thrills contradicts #1, #2, #3, #4 and #6
No. 1 Skill & Challenge
The RNG Gear Enhancement System will penalize the player for something which they have no control. You lose resources, progress, even items and become weaker.
This contradicts the flow principle (skill growth) and often creates learning blocks or frustration. (Which in itself is not a bad thing to go backwards if the cause was my lack of skills)
No. 2 Autonomy & freedom of choice
Successful enhancement is not skill-based, but random. This can destroy autonomy and a sense of competence. Players feel powerless because their efforts are not reliably rewarded. There is no player agancy here. If I want to get ahead, I hand over success or failure to a passive system.
To compensate for the luck system, there is often massive grinding, which artificially inflates the playing time but doesn't really fill it with content.
No. 3 Connectedness & social resonance
The strongly vertical power scaling harms being part of a collective. It does not connect through shared meaning and adventure, but divides through strong power differences. Low level or low geared players will feel disconnected from the high level players and useless to the community, e.g. in PvP. The prolonged leveling process only reinforces the time gap.
No. 4 Discovery & Curiosity
The highly vertical power scaling will increase the need to progress. This will feel more like a compulsion than fun. This perceived compulsion and dull grind will kill the fascination and curiosity for the beautiful game world.
No. 6 Narration & Meaning
With the tedious dull grind, the wide separation from the other players you want to catch up with in order to be included and the regression of gear progression over whose success or failure you have no control, the very last meaning and purpose of your efforts is completely emptied. This makes the entire progression feel pointless.
The reinforcement of rewards through RNG, their artificial and blunt temporal extension through mob grind and the compulsive gear progression through a strong vertical power scaling that leads into a one shot fiesta will only lead to one thing: All the players who experience gameplay fun through inherent motivation (#1-6) will leave the game completely fatigued, pointless, bored and disappointed after a few months at the latest. The only players left will be those who enjoy the game through the reinforcement and extension of No. 7. No. 7 will ultimately dominate and destroy everything else. It exploits psychological weaknesses (FOMO, reward dopamine, fear of loss) rather than focusing on sustained enjoyment through skill, discovery, community or meaning.
If most players then leave, a world as large as Ashes can no longer be sufficiently populated and player-driven content no longer works well, then this leads, as in any other MMORPG with such power scaling (korean MMORPG´s), RNG Gear Enhancement System and long and dull grind, to catch-up mechanics, leveling will run faster to get to the endgame quicker to be able to retain new players. that devalues all Progress, Zones and Items.. Come on guys, we know this from 1000 other MMORPG's.
My biggest problem here is the strong vertical power scaling that will turn open world PvP into a one shot fiesta. All the other stuff just compounds the problem. Personally I love long level phases and progress and open world PvP.
1. competence & challenge
The player is challenged, but not overwhelmed. This creates the so-called flow state. Fun is created when you get better, overcome obstacles and surpass yourself in your abilities.
2. autonomy & freedom of choice
Players want to make meaningful decisions. Freedom of choice creates a sense of control and self-efficacy. Fun is created when you have the feeling: “I have an influence on this world.”
3. connectedness & social resonance
Multiplayer games, MMO´s, guilds, co-op: playing together (and against others) strengthens bonds and creates collective fun. Fun comes from community or emotional connection.
4. discovery & curiosity
Fun exploring worlds, mechanics or stories. The thirst for knowledge is rewarded.
The player thinks: “What else is out there?”
5. fantasy & aesthetics
The escape into other worlds, roles or perspectives. Many games offer emotional or visual experiences. Fun through aesthetic fascination or immersion.
6. narration & meaning
Stories and Interactions with meaning create emotional depth. You don't just experience something, you feel something. Fun is often more “meaningful” than entertaining.
7. reward & progress
Level-ups, loot, new skills - the progression system activates our reward system. Fun through measurable growth and feedback.
Principles 1-6 are inherent fun, i.e. the activities themselves are fun. No. 7 is external fun. The activities you do don't necessarily have to be fun, the rewards just have to be good enough to motivate you.
Ashes tries to apply all these principles. Intrepid also places great emphasis on No. 7 with a strongly vertical power scaling, long and dull mob grind and RNG gear enhancement.
1. strong vertical power scaling should increase the extrinsic motivation to make progress.
2. the grind should only artificially create playtime until you get the reward.
3. an RNG Gear Enhancement System should increase the thrill of the reward and thus reinforce it.
The problem, however, is that Ashes contradicts and damages many inherent fun principles with these three concepts, which all lead up to and reinforce #7.
The way in which Ashes #7 is motivated, prolonged and reinforced by thrills contradicts #1, #2, #3, #4 and #6
No. 1 Skill & Challenge
The RNG Gear Enhancement System will penalize the player for something which they have no control. You lose resources, progress, even items and become weaker.
This contradicts the flow principle (skill growth) and often creates learning blocks or frustration. (Which in itself is not a bad thing to go backwards if the cause was my lack of skills)
No. 2 Autonomy & freedom of choice
Successful enhancement is not skill-based, but random. This can destroy autonomy and a sense of competence. Players feel powerless because their efforts are not reliably rewarded. There is no player agancy here. If I want to get ahead, I hand over success or failure to a passive system.
To compensate for the luck system, there is often massive grinding, which artificially inflates the playing time but doesn't really fill it with content.
No. 3 Connectedness & social resonance
The strongly vertical power scaling harms being part of a collective. It does not connect through shared meaning and adventure, but divides through strong power differences. Low level or low geared players will feel disconnected from the high level players and useless to the community, e.g. in PvP. The prolonged leveling process only reinforces the time gap.
No. 4 Discovery & Curiosity
The highly vertical power scaling will increase the need to progress. This will feel more like a compulsion than fun. This perceived compulsion and dull grind will kill the fascination and curiosity for the beautiful game world.
No. 6 Narration & Meaning
With the tedious dull grind, the wide separation from the other players you want to catch up with in order to be included and the regression of gear progression over whose success or failure you have no control, the very last meaning and purpose of your efforts is completely emptied. This makes the entire progression feel pointless.
The reinforcement of rewards through RNG, their artificial and blunt temporal extension through mob grind and the compulsive gear progression through a strong vertical power scaling that leads into a one shot fiesta will only lead to one thing: All the players who experience gameplay fun through inherent motivation (#1-6) will leave the game completely fatigued, pointless, bored and disappointed after a few months at the latest. The only players left will be those who enjoy the game through the reinforcement and extension of No. 7. No. 7 will ultimately dominate and destroy everything else. It exploits psychological weaknesses (FOMO, reward dopamine, fear of loss) rather than focusing on sustained enjoyment through skill, discovery, community or meaning.
If most players then leave, a world as large as Ashes can no longer be sufficiently populated and player-driven content no longer works well, then this leads, as in any other MMORPG with such power scaling (korean MMORPG´s), RNG Gear Enhancement System and long and dull grind, to catch-up mechanics, leveling will run faster to get to the endgame quicker to be able to retain new players. that devalues all Progress, Zones and Items.. Come on guys, we know this from 1000 other MMORPG's.
My biggest problem here is the strong vertical power scaling that will turn open world PvP into a one shot fiesta. All the other stuff just compounds the problem. Personally I love long level phases and progress and open world PvP.
