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Sadly, I have not been picked to join a defense of a siege and that already gave me red flags about the system.

This system should be a node defense by the citizens of the node. The people who have all the risk in the system are the citizens of the node. They will have the most storage that is as risk. While outside citizens may have storage they will have half as much as a citizen will. Also, when owning a freehold requires you to be a citizen of the node those players will also have more risk in the system. Allowing rosters to be filled with other nodes citizens or those w/out any citizenship will give the content to the same group of people constantly, I heard this concern voiced about the system like this in New World. Give ownership to those who are citizens of a node.

I completely agree - griefers will always find a way to harass and exploit. Why stop exploiting when some of these same people keep getting a slap on the wrist and go back to toxic gameplay time and time again? I say give them the big prize of "fuck around and find out" lol letting these people stay long term without actual punishment only damages the health of a game short and long term imo.

Ludullu wrote: »

Azherae wrote: »

The entire point of the design of Ashes is to force character growth into the player-social space. You can't just 'oppose your enemies for the sake of it' if Levels are too important because losing will setback your leveling. But you can do it by being socially adept enough to be chosen by the elite to receive power.

How bad would hard ceilings on waterfall stats be for Ashes?

Let's say that at max lvl a char can have 50 value of each stat, 25 of them coming from pure lvls and 25 coming from any other source, but you can never go above 50. So before you reach lvl50 you could still get your stats to 50 value, but you'd be sacrificing a gear-based direct stat (like CW or evasion or whatever) increase by doing that.

Minmaxers will still have room to grow, because they can increase stats directly (or attempt full 50 stats, if Intrepid are willing to allow that), but the overall ceiling of waterfall stats would be equalized for all.

Feels like balancing both pve and pvp would be easier that way. And gear variety would matter more too, cause now crafting dials could go from "all waterfall stats" to "none waterfall, just direct stat" and you could mix and match all kinds of shit in the search of "optimal" power.

Not a thing I could even have a real personal opinion on given what we have now.

But as usual, you are roughly describing the outcome that TL achieves with the way their waterfall stats work. Currently, Throne and Liberty has a more robust foundation for things like Social Orgs and stat blocks than Ashes does, and some of it is already implemented.

E.g. 'if your Guild holds this Boonstone, you get +2 DEX, which might allow you to hit a stat tier for DEX'.

If that doesn't make sense just ignore it, treat it as just another situation where the two games are night and day and once again your instinctive solution is to go toward the Dark Side.

They have cookies.

But I don't think I understand Intrepid's goals enough to say, I can only give my data from watching players and their psychology, and the thing about TL is that, well... people don't really 'complain' about base systems as much. I see that as a good sign, but I can see how people might see it as a bad one.

In TL you distribute your own stats though, and the Devs don't 'tell you how to do that' other than the 'after putting 20 points into STR it cost 2 Level-Points to get another point of STR'. You pick your own style and make it work with your gear choices. Since Ashes doesn't let you do this, it would come down to numbers and formulae again.

Plus, we already have issues with Ashes' waterfall stat choices. Anything I imagine is just gonna be 'but TL's is good, use something like that'. I literally won't be able to imagine 'which specific worse version they could use' (in terms of equations).

And half of them revive after you've downed them the first time.

Azherae wrote: »

The entire point of the design of Ashes is to force character growth into the player-social space. You can't just 'oppose your enemies for the sake of it' if Levels are too important because losing will setback your leveling. But you can do it by being socially adept enough to be chosen by the elite to receive power.

How bad would hard ceilings on waterfall stats be for Ashes?

Let's say that at max lvl a char can have 50 value of each stat, 25 of them coming from pure lvls and 25 coming from any other source, but you can never go above 50. So before you reach lvl50 you could still get your stats to 50 value, but you'd be sacrificing a gear-based direct stat (like CW or evasion or whatever) increase by doing that.

Minmaxers will still have room to grow, because they can increase stats directly (or attempt full 50 stats, if Intrepid are willing to allow that), but the overall ceiling of waterfall stats would be equalized for all.

Feels like balancing both pve and pvp would be easier that way. And gear variety would matter more too, cause now crafting dials could go from "all waterfall stats" to "none waterfall, just direct stat" and you could mix and match all kinds of shit in the search of "optimal" power.

Ok, having re-read my response I realize that I massively failed to convey what I actually mean to you @Xeeg. The consequence of trying to keep things short when I shouldn't.

Throne and Liberty makes Level matter because it doesn't have:
Social Organization Power
Node Loyalty Power
Economic Knowledge/Control/Specialization Power (only kicking in now sorta)
Unrestricted Player-to-Player Trading.

I will at least skip the essay about how, if those things are coming, they will integrate well because the current benefits offered by Levels are diminished as Levels go higher, as is the case in most older MMOs (each new stat point is, percentage wise, less meaningful than any stat point before it). Mainly because Ashes will be the same.

But since Ashes intends for all those things to be available as meaningful power sources fairly early (unless this too has changed in which case ugh), and has less specialization until considerably further into the Leveling curve, there is no equivalent Level Based way to satisfy the ego of the average player.

If Intrepid says 'Gear will be 40-50% of a player's power', then it's not like the other 50% will be 'level'. Each of the other things mentioned will matter too.

But in AoC, half of those will be expressed through Gear. The difference is that in TL, your gear caps out in its ability to gain more power or suppress your enemies much faster. The salt-mine only opens basically on Castle Siege day when people are reminded just how much more powerful the winners are. The rest of the time, it's not as important that the gear is suppressing you because your growth can't be disrupted and forced into the player-social space.

The entire point of the design of Ashes is to force character growth into the player-social space. You can't just 'oppose your enemies for the sake of it' if Levels are too important because losing will setback your leveling. But you can do it by being socially adept enough to be chosen by the elite to receive power.

Unfortunately for any player who can't play constantly, who needs to devote time to being powerful, the elite will not take the same action. Tossing some leftover gear to a random who makes you smile is easy. Making 2 hours to take them to a good Exp spot is not.

Transmog is a total crap ruining immersion but I prefer the game generates cash with transmog than pay to win shits.

WuqingYe wrote: »

I completely agree - griefers will always find a way to harass and exploit. Why stop exploiting when some of these same people keep getting a slap on the wrist and go back to toxic gameplay time and time again? I say give them the big prize of "fuck around and find out" lol letting these people stay long term without actual punishment only damages the health of a game short and long term imo.

Yeah, Ashes is already building something of a reputation for a toxic player-base, and it's not even nearing Launch.