[quote quote=11825]I didn’t read all of the replies but I see a lot of “how to punish gankers”. Besides the obvious like loot from a caravan you destroy, what would the benefits of PKing even be in the game?
[/quote]
In the game? There usually are none in any game, but it feeds the ego of the player outside of the game.
Some possible in game benefits: - Slow down an opposing guild's progress on contributing towards node development (possibly allowing your guild to claim it instead of theirs? Not sure how that part works) - Disrupt trade routes increasing demand/prices on items that you have stockpiled (Caravans are legitimate targets, but thought I'd include it here) - Bait another guild into declaring war (triggering legitimate open world pvp) - Looting the materials from the victim (players drop some materials, not just caravans) - Keeping others away from a valuable material node
As far as corruption goes. I think the punishments are sufficient, but I feel that the corruption should spread account wide, not just on one character. At the very least, time spent on another character should not count towards time spent reducing corruption. Account wide jail time from 10 min - 3 hours (actual in game time with anti-AFK measures in place) could help make folks think twice.
I think Dawnwatcher has a great viewpoint on this. A role-playing experience like what the developers appear to be going for should open up the option for people to play "the bad guys." Continued PK's would drop a player's bar from green-green/yellow-yellow-yellow/orange-orange-orange/red-full red. Having NPC's react based on that identifier already adds a social impact. Like guards attacking based on city parameters. (oh god random thought a corrupted city the guards shake you down each time you try to enter.. O.O) Based on actual cause and effect if a player has a corrupted identifier, say they get caught or turn themselves in voluntarily, the toon would/could serve a set time in prison (real time) based on that modifier or they could pay a fine with in game currency for a quicker release.
I think it would add a very dynamic element to the game if everyone who enters say, a desert metropolis, knows full well that this is where the thieves and assassins reside. You could commission them for hits so to speak. On the other hand, if a player gets jacked up and wants to pursue vengeance legally, they could go to a developed node, issue a bounty on a wanted poster and put up their own money or items as payment to collect. A bounty system can't come from the game itself less it be abused as a cash cow, clearly, but continue with what the developers intend and keep it a player driven element. On top of what Dawnwatcher stated about having a PK leaderboard, there could also be a Most Wanted leaderboard for players who have the highest bounties. Very wild west. Come on, can't honestly say it wouldn't be even the slightest bit fun to be on the run from the law with your gang of bandits with your own little hideout node out in the boonies. ;)
[quote quote=10780] Old school UO still has the best system of any MMO ive played since for PVP/ and pking as a whole. Put the tools necessary to punish overall murder in the hands of players not a harsh Dev enforced system. 10 murder counts = perma red (this gives you some leeway to remove harassers without risking being hunted by bounty hunters, old school UO =5 counts). When a player character hits 10 they become perma red. When a perma red is killed by a bounty hunter they lose 33% of their skills in a system called stat loss ( this loss is not permanent). The time in which they lose these skills is based off of total murder counts (4-5 hours each count, maximum of 40 hours of ingame time) and have murder counts remove with time when characters are not assaulting blue or green player characters. If a murder is recently stat lossed hit them with a debuff that increases corruption reduction time while the debuff is active (4 hours per total count degradation) and those without the debuff 8 hours. This will allow players who accidentally go red to remove counts to return to blue status.[/quote] Um... Old school UO was a PK nightmare. Great for players who love PvP combat. No fun at all for those of us who don't like getting ganked. Punishment at the hands of players is, again, a great solution for players who love PvP combat. And a nightmare for the players who hate PvP combat. AoC is working on a compromise that neither extremes will like...but hopefully will find livable.
[quote quote=15645] I think it would add a very dynamic element to the game if everyone who enters say, a desert metropolis, knows full well that this is where the thieves and assassins reside. You could commission them for hits so to speak. On the other hand, if a player gets jacked up and wants to pursue vengeance legally, they could go to a developed node, issue a bounty on a wanted poster and put up their own money or items as payment to collect. A bounty system can’t come from the game itself less it be abused as a cash cow, clearly, but continue with what the developers intend and keep it a player driven element. On top of what Dawnwatcher stated about having a PK leaderboard, there could also be a Most Wanted leaderboard for players who have the highest bounties. Very wild west. Come on, can’t honestly say it wouldn’t be even the slightest bit fun to be on the run from the law with your gang of bandits with your own little hideout node out in the boonies. [/quote] Seems to me highly unlikely that thieves and assassins would hang around deserts. Depends on how the stealth skills work, but, as a Rogue/Druid...I'd be more likely to hang out in environments with an ample supply of cover to help me Hide. Forests would be more likely than deserts.
In AoC, cities should have reputations. We should know where Rogues congregate based on the types of buildings in the city. We might expect that PKs will be likely to gravitate towards Military Metropolises (I expect we'll be looking at city type rather than biome) but, we'll have to see. No way to anticipate what players will do until we get our hands on the game.
You don't want to entirely get rid of the risk verse reward it adds to the game. You go in this area and it has the best resources but it's very dangerous. You make it in and make it out you make bank you don't you lose what you got from the area. Gives people a reason to team up and go in that area and protect their gatherers especially if a lot of good gear is craftable. Also gives a thrill to the people that want to try to run in target certain areas and make it out without getting killed. I know it sounds weird but some people that like both pve and pvp would find that fun.
If your corrupt and you die and lose gear for it then it makes the pvp that much more thrilling and the reward is the pvp in its self at that point. Heart pounding adrenaline running if I don't pull this off I lose my gear set and have to go naked back to buy more. The walk of shame lol. The PKers won't always win but you have to look at them as another type of player the other side of the coin so to speak. If being a PKer means when you die you lose all your stuff including equipped items because of corruption they already chose a harder play style and if they have to rebuy gear from the auction house in the end it contributes to the games economy.
Guards could keep them out of safe zones as well once they get so corrupt it will also make it harder for them to move the stuff they have unless they use a caravan and have another character but then they can fall victim to one of the guilds or groups that could attack the caravan. In the end they could fall victim to their own devices and would be at odds with each other as well.
They will have a tougher time for their choices not to mention being hunted for the bounties on their heads which again they stand to lose more if their worn gear drops off them too and the person that kills them gets a bounty too. They could also make it so they would have to pay a large amount of game currency or grind mobs to gradually lose the corruption the more they have the longer it takes or the more currency it cost. The only way they could get stuff for their character would be through some kind of black market or perhaps having caravans that run in and out of the areas they could be in with Alts that can buy or sell for them but since it has to travel through the badlands they would have a high risk of it never making it to the node or back to their main stuck out in no mans land. They won't want to do bad things on their Alta because then what will they do to get stuff out there?
You could somewhat stop them from abusing the system and just having a friend/guildie kill them by make the bounty only collectible if their head is hand delivered to the node and it be untradeable and unable to be transported outside of the persons inventory. The bounty hunter would have to be in good standings then and not be corrupt. These are just my thoughts and I am sure the Devs with come up with something decent.
Sandboxes are all about risk verse reward and they say they are making a sandbox it's hard for some elements to not be shared just like in theme parks you have a lot of questing your the hero and the other faction is the bad guys in your eyes. You have a gear tread mill to climb with old content becoming irrelevant as the game gets expanded to where the raid you did two months ago doesn't even drop as good of loot as the dungeons you run now so new comers can catch up. The only reason to do the old content is for transmogs and you only go back until you get what you were after when RNG finally goes in your favor. Expecting the same type of games to not share characteristics is like expecting to buy a board game that's not played on a board.
It's not like corruption is any different than a security status lose or it's the first MMO that starts by arriving at a new planet because something happened to the old one. Having to destroy player owned cities(stations) to open up new pve content(ratting space) isn't new either though at least it's a community effort to unlock and build the nodes in different areas than the one you just destroyed. It's not the first game to use tab targeting or hot keys. Using caravans(Freighters) to move bulk items around that can be attacked and looted by the victors isn't new that's enough of that though I don't consider any of this a bad thing.
I could go on but it's not my point. My point is you take systems from existing games and make them your own and improve them to make them better. It's not stealing or borrowing or every crafting game in existence would be in trouble for making you gather mats and go to a crafting station to build or have something built by npcs you hired or that are just there for crafting purposes. You can only do the same thing so many ways the question is how do you do it better and set yourself apart from everyone else that has that in their game without breaking it or mucking it up?
[quote quote=15743] Yes but you don’t want to entirely get rid of the risk verse reward it adds to the game. You go in this area and it has the best resources but it’s very dangerous. You make it in and make it out you make bank you don’t you lose what you got from the area. Gives people a reason to team up and go in that area and protect their gatherers especially if a lot of good gear is craftable. Also gives a thrill to the people that want to try to run in target certain areas and make it out without getting killed. I know it sounds weird but some people that like both pve and pvp would find that fun. [/quote] Compromise means we won't be completely getting rid of anything. PvP combat and PvP conflict are inherent aspects of this game's design. Again, people at the extremes will chafe at the mechanics... hopefully, those at the extremes will find the compromises liveable... and those of us who are "PvP-sometimes" players will rejoice. :-D
[quote]Also if your corrupt and you die and lose gear for it then it makes the pvp that much more thrilling and the reward is the pvp in its self at that point. Heart pounding adrenaline running if I don’t pull this off I lose my gear set and have to go naked back to buy more. The walk of shame lol. The PKers won’t always win but you have to look at them as another type of player the other side of the coin so to speak. If being a PKer means when you die you lose all your stuff including equipped items because of corruption they already chose a harder play style and if they have to rebuy gear from the auction house in the end it contributes to the games economy. If guards keep them out of safe zones as well once they get so corrupt it will also make it harder for them to move the stuff they got unless they use a caravan and have another character but then they can fall victim to one of the guilds or groups that could attack the caravan.[/quote] Huhn. No. That might be true for people who love PvP combat. I don't think I ever perceive PvP combat to be a reward. And I experience no real thrill from PvP. In NWO, it was fun to participate in the faction v faction events. Losing gear just motivates me to quit the game. I don't play MMORPGs for the fun of losing gear or stealing gear from other players.
The type of PvP combat/conflict that inspires me to is similar to the pillars of AoC: In the EQNext design -if I have to murder some dryads in order to transmute their Life magic into Shadow magic which augments my Rogue's stealth abilities... I'm gonna go murder some dryads. And if players are gonna try to prevent me from murdering the dryads, well...some player heads might have to roll. Again, losing gear in that scenario would simply motivate me to rage quit the game. I don't find it at all thrilling. In the Revival lore, the civilized city of Skypass overtook what they thought was an abandoned city of a nomadic culture... while the nomads were away. They built walls around the city and now occupy it. That lore pushed me (I'm typically a carebear pacifist) to want to retake the city and return it to the nomads. If I had to destroy some player homes to accomplish that - ooops. Ifsome players have to die because they don;t want to relinquish their city... - ooops. Tough luck for them. Has nothing to do with wanting to steal other players items or muck up their xp debt - I don't play games to ruin the play of other people. In my view, that is dispicable. But, I will engage in PvP combat to defend my city (if players attack it). And it's feasible that I'd participate in a siege to win back a city of mine that has been stolen. The threat of losing gear just adds to my animosity for a game. It adds no value to my gameplay enjoyment. Rather the polar opposite. One compromise I hope to find liveable in AoC. I'll have to see how unforgiving the mechanic actually works out to be.
I don't know that corruption will be much of a deterrent for PKs. In EQ2, my main character was only allowed (for background reasons) to wear the newbie rags. The only upgrades allowed where weapons and jewelry (jewelry crafted by her alt master). Didn't matter that combat at 6oth level might be highly challenging wearing level 1 armor. Character RP trumps everything else. If I wanted to PK, I don't know that corruption would make a difference. I would probably make alts whose primary purpose was to gain as much corruption as possible. And, in that case, I wouldn't be worried about accruing gear/loot for those characters. The fun, there, would be playing an evil, corrupt villain who preys on newbies. That's contrary to my ethics, but if I were playing that role, if evil and corruption are my character objectives, I wouldn't care whether corruption or gear loss made the character more challenging to play.
[quote quote=15764] Sandboxes are all about risk verse reward and they say they are making a sandbox it’s hard for some elements to not be shared just like in theme parks you have a lot of questing your the hero and the other faction is the bad guys in your eyes. You have a gear tread mill to climb with old content becoming irrelevant as the game gets expanded to where the raid you did two months ago doesn’t even drop as good of loot as the dungeons you run now so new comers can catch up. The only reason to do the old content is for transmogs and you only go back until you get what you were after when RNG finally goes in your favor. Expecting the same type of games to not share characteristics is like expecting to buy a board game that’s not played on a board.[/quote] "Honestly, I am hesitant to call Ashes a sandbox. Not because of what sandbox is supposed to mean, but rather because of how studios have developed 'sandboxes' over the past decade. You see, many developers have used the sandbox concept as an excuse to cut a lot of curated content, in exchange for gimmicky mechanics that allow for player-generated content. In Ashes, we have the opposite approach in development. In order for sandbox mechanics to mean something, there must be curated content to accompany the player’s choices. Which means, as the developers, we must create that themebox style content but for every possible path the community may take. I like to compare our design philosophy, to that of a 'Choose your own adventure' book. Our story is Epic, and you have the ability to be an integral part of that story. Dictating the outcome, in a meaningful way.'" ---Steven Sharif https://errantpenman.com/2017/01/11/interview-ashes-of-creation-wants-to-bring-the-virtual-world-to-life/
[quote quote=15785]<blockquote> <div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/bounty-system-corruption-and-ways-to-get-rid-of-it/page/3/#post-15764" rel="nofollow">Jastorin wrote:</a></div> Sandboxes are all about risk verse reward and they say they are making a sandbox it’s hard for some elements to not be shared just like in theme parks you have a lot of questing your the hero and the other faction is the bad guys in your eyes. You have a gear tread mill to climb with old content becoming irrelevant as the game gets expanded to where the raid you did two months ago doesn’t even drop as good of loot as the dungeons you run now so new comers can catch up. The only reason to do the old content is for transmogs and you only go back until you get what you were after when RNG finally goes in your favor. Expecting the same type of games to not share characteristics is like expecting to buy a board game that’s not played on a board. </blockquote> “Honestly, I am hesitant to call Ashes a sandbox. Not because of what sandbox is supposed to mean, but rather because of how studios have developed ‘sandboxes’ over the past decade. You see, many developers have used the sandbox concept as an excuse to cut a lot of curated content, in exchange for gimmicky mechanics that allow for player-generated content. In Ashes, we have the opposite approach in development. In order for sandbox mechanics to mean something, there must be curated content to accompany the player’s choices. Which means, as the developers, we must create that themebox style content but for every possible path the community may take. I like to compare our design philosophy, to that of a ‘Choose your own adventure’ book. Our story is Epic, and you have the ability to be an integral part of that story. Dictating the outcome, in a meaningful way.'” —Steven Sharif
<div class=""><a href="https://errantpenman.com/2017/01/11/interview-ashes-of-creation-wants-to-bring-the-virtual-world-to-life/" rel="nofollow">Interview: Ashes of Creation Wants to Bring the Virtual World to Life</a></div> [/quote]
If your not a PKer killing people that aren't flagged you won't lose any gear just what's in your inventory from my understanding. PvP with out any consequences isn't exciting or thrilling in anyway and leads to players not caring run in separate from group and die resurrect and repeat. At least with consequences people won't be so eager to do this.
Anyway what's being talked about is corruption that players get for attacking people that don't want to pvp. they will allow people to kill them anyway or attack their caravans and take their stuff. Sounds like losing your gear for being corrupt would work to keep you from doing it because it wouldn't be worth the reward of getting what's in that persons bags or loot from the caravan. Though I think you can attack the caravans in certain areas without penalties. It would also give the hardcore players in the game a nich while the players not so inclined take part in the castle sieges, GvG and what not that don't cause corruption. This would make it cater to both crowds.
[quote quote=15781]<blockquote> <div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/bounty-system-corruption-and-ways-to-get-rid-of-it/page/3/#post-15743" rel="nofollow">Jastorin wrote:</a></div> Yes but you don’t want to entirely get rid of the risk verse reward it adds to the game. You go in this area and it has the best resources but it’s very dangerous. You make it in and make it out you make bank you don’t you lose what you got from the area. Gives people a reason to team up and go in that area and protect their gatherers especially if a lot of good gear is craftable. Also gives a thrill to the people that want to try to run in target certain areas and make it out without getting killed. I know it sounds weird but some people that like both pve and pvp would find that fun. </blockquote> Compromise means we won’t be completely getting rid of anything. PvP combat and PvP conflict are inherent aspects of this game’s design. Again, people at the extremes will chafe at the mechanics… hopefully, those at the extremes will find the compromises liveable… and those of us who are “PvP-sometimes” players will rejoice. ????
<blockquote>Also if your corrupt and you die and lose gear for it then it makes the pvp that much more thrilling and the reward is the pvp in its self at that point. Heart pounding adrenaline running if I don’t pull this off I lose my gear set and have to go naked back to buy more. The walk of shame lol. The PKers won’t always win but you have to look at them as another type of player the other side of the coin so to speak. If being a PKer means when you die you lose all your stuff including equipped items because of corruption they already chose a harder play style and if they have to rebuy gear from the auction house in the end it contributes to the games economy. If guards keep them out of safe zones as well once they get so corrupt it will also make it harder for them to move the stuff they got unless they use a caravan and have another character but then they can fall victim to one of the guilds or groups that could attack the caravan. </blockquote> Huhn. No. That might be true for people who love PvP combat. I don’t think I ever perceive PvP combat to be a reward. And I experience no real thrill from PvP. In NWO, it was fun to participate in the faction v faction events. Losing gear just motivates me to quit the game. I don’t play MMORPGs for the fun of losing gear or stealing gear from other players.
The type of PvP combat/conflict that inspires me to is similar to the pillars of AoC: In the EQNext design -if I have to murder some dryads in order to transmute their Life magic into Shadow magic which augments my Rogue’s stealth abilities… I’m gonna go murder some dryads. And if players are gonna try to prevent me from murdering the dryads, well…some player heads might have to roll. Again, losing gear in that scenario would simply motivate me to rage quit the game. I don’t find it at all thrilling. In the Revival lore, the civilized city of Skypass overtook what they thought was an abandoned city of a nomadic culture… while the nomads were away. They built walls around the city and now occupy it. That lore pushed me (I’m typically a carebear pacifist) to want to retake the city and return it to the nomads. If I had to destroy some player homes to accomplish that – ooops. Ifsome players have to die because they don;t want to relinquish their city… – ooops. Tough luck for them. Has nothing to do with wanting to steal other players items or muck up their xp debt – I don’t play games to ruin the play of other people. In my view, that is dispicable. But, I will engage in PvP combat to defend my city (if players attack it). And it’s feasible that I’d participate in a siege to win back a city of mine that has been stolen. The threat of losing gear just adds to my animosity for a game. It adds no value to my gameplay enjoyment. Rather the polar opposite. One compromise I hope to find liveable in AoC. I’ll have to see how unforgiving the mechanic actually works out to be.
I don’t know that corruption will be much of a deterrent for PKs. In EQ2, my main character was only allowed (for background reasons) to wear the newbie rags. The only upgrades allowed where weapons and jewelry (jewelry crafted by her alt master). Didn’t matter that combat at 6oth level might be highly challenging wearing level 1 armor. Character RP trumps everything else. If I wanted to PK, I don’t know that corruption would make a difference. I would probably make alts whose primary purpose was to gain as much corruption as possible. And, in that case, I wouldn’t be worried about accruing gear/loot for those characters. The fun, there, would be playing an evil, corrupt villain who preys on newbies. That’s contrary to my ethics, but if I were playing that role, if evil and corruption are my character objectives, I wouldn’t care whether corruption or gear loss made the character more challenging to play.
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It would be very easy to take care of a person like that who preyed on low lvls without the gear to stand up to anyone else outside of that since they would pry be almost as squishy to other high levels as the low levels they are killing. Kind of said for them lol. Corruption wouldn't be caused by participating in sieges,defense and GvG so you wouldn't lose your gear fighting in those since both sides are there for the pvp.
[quote quote=15724]<blockquote> <div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/bounty-system-corruption-and-ways-to-get-rid-of-it/page/3/#post-15645" rel="nofollow">Sanserif wrote:</a></div> </blockquote> Seems to me highly unlikely that thieves and assassins would hang around deserts. Depends on how the stealth skills work, but, as a Rogue/Druid…I’d be more likely to hang out in environments with an ample supply of cover to help me Hide. Forests would be more likely than deserts.
In AoC, cities should have reputations. We should know where Rogues congregate based on the types of buildings in the city. We might expect that PKs will be likely to gravitate towards Military Metropolises (I expect we’ll be looking at city type rather than biome) but, we’ll have to see. No way to anticipate what players will do until we get our hands on the game.
[/quote]
Hahaha from a practicality perspective I see your point. If the stealth mechanics are set as more of a "poof" stealth (just going straight invisible) then biomes become irrelevant. I suppose I just through out desert as an example because when I imagine a city of thieves the first thing that comes to mind is Aladdin and Calimport from Forgotten Realms.
I do like the idea of cities gaining reputations, though I imagine that might come about naturally than and build in mechanic.
Comments
[/quote]
In the game? There usually are none in any game, but it feeds the ego of the player outside of the game.
Some possible in game benefits:
- Slow down an opposing guild's progress on contributing towards node development (possibly allowing your guild to claim it instead of theirs? Not sure how that part works)
- Disrupt trade routes increasing demand/prices on items that you have stockpiled (Caravans are legitimate targets, but thought I'd include it here)
- Bait another guild into declaring war (triggering legitimate open world pvp)
- Looting the materials from the victim (players drop some materials, not just caravans)
- Keeping others away from a valuable material node
As far as corruption goes. I think the punishments are sufficient, but I feel that the corruption should spread account wide, not just on one character. At the very least, time spent on another character should not count towards time spent reducing corruption. Account wide jail time from 10 min - 3 hours (actual in game time with anti-AFK measures in place) could help make folks think twice.
I think it would add a very dynamic element to the game if everyone who enters say, a desert metropolis, knows full well that this is where the thieves and assassins reside. You could commission them for hits so to speak. On the other hand, if a player gets jacked up and wants to pursue vengeance legally, they could go to a developed node, issue a bounty on a wanted poster and put up their own money or items as payment to collect. A bounty system can't come from the game itself less it be abused as a cash cow, clearly, but continue with what the developers intend and keep it a player driven element. On top of what Dawnwatcher stated about having a PK leaderboard, there could also be a Most Wanted leaderboard for players who have the highest bounties. Very wild west. Come on, can't honestly say it wouldn't be even the slightest bit fun to be on the run from the law with your gang of bandits with your own little hideout node out in the boonies. ;)
Old school UO still has the best system of any MMO ive played since for PVP/ and pking as a whole. Put the tools necessary to punish overall murder in the hands of players not a harsh Dev enforced system. 10 murder counts = perma red (this gives you some leeway to remove harassers without risking being hunted by bounty hunters, old school UO =5 counts). When a player character hits 10 they become perma red. When a perma red is killed by a bounty hunter they lose 33% of their skills in a system called stat loss ( this loss is not permanent). The time in which they lose these skills is based off of total murder counts (4-5 hours each count, maximum of 40 hours of ingame time) and have murder counts remove with time when characters are not assaulting blue or green player characters. If a murder is recently stat lossed hit them with a debuff that increases corruption reduction time while the debuff is active (4 hours per total count degradation) and those without the debuff 8 hours. This will allow players who accidentally go red to remove counts to return to blue status.[/quote]
Um... Old school UO was a PK nightmare. Great for players who love PvP combat. No fun at all for those of us who don't like getting ganked.
Punishment at the hands of players is, again, a great solution for players who love PvP combat. And a nightmare for the players who hate PvP combat.
AoC is working on a compromise that neither extremes will like...but hopefully will find livable.
I think it would add a very dynamic element to the game if everyone who enters say, a desert metropolis, knows full well that this is where the thieves and assassins reside. You could commission them for hits so to speak. On the other hand, if a player gets jacked up and wants to pursue vengeance legally, they could go to a developed node, issue a bounty on a wanted poster and put up their own money or items as payment to collect. A bounty system can’t come from the game itself less it be abused as a cash cow, clearly, but continue with what the developers intend and keep it a player driven element. On top of what Dawnwatcher stated about having a PK leaderboard, there could also be a Most Wanted leaderboard for players who have the highest bounties. Very wild west. Come on, can’t honestly say it wouldn’t be even the slightest bit fun to be on the run from the law with your gang of bandits with your own little hideout node out in the boonies. [/quote]
Seems to me highly unlikely that thieves and assassins would hang around deserts.
Depends on how the stealth skills work, but, as a Rogue/Druid...I'd be more likely to hang out in environments with an ample supply of cover to help me Hide. Forests would be more likely than deserts.
In AoC, cities should have reputations. We should know where Rogues congregate based on the types of buildings in the city.
We might expect that PKs will be likely to gravitate towards Military Metropolises (I expect we'll be looking at city type rather than biome) but, we'll have to see.
No way to anticipate what players will do until we get our hands on the game.
If your corrupt and you die and lose gear for it then it makes the pvp that much more thrilling and the reward is the pvp in its self at that point. Heart pounding adrenaline running if I don't pull this off I lose my gear set and have to go naked back to buy more. The walk of shame lol. The PKers won't always win but you have to look at them as another type of player the other side of the coin so to speak. If being a PKer means when you die you lose all your stuff including equipped items because of corruption they already chose a harder play style and if they have to rebuy gear from the auction house in the end it contributes to the games economy.
Guards could keep them out of safe zones as well once they get so corrupt it will also make it harder for them to move the stuff they have unless they use a caravan and have another character but then they can fall victim to one of the guilds or groups that could attack the caravan. In the end they could fall victim to their own devices and would be at odds with each other as well.
They will have a tougher time for their choices not to mention being hunted for the bounties on their heads which again they stand to lose more if their worn gear drops off them too and the person that kills them gets a bounty too. They could also make it so they would have to pay a large amount of game currency or grind mobs to gradually lose the corruption the more they have the longer it takes or the more currency it cost. The only way they could get stuff for their character would be through some kind of black market or perhaps having caravans that run in and out of the areas they could be in with Alts that can buy or sell for them but since it has to travel through the badlands they would have a high risk of it never making it to the node or back to their main stuck out in no mans land. They won't want to do bad things on their Alta because then what will they do to get stuff out there?
You could somewhat stop them from abusing the system and just having a friend/guildie kill them by make the bounty only collectible if their head is hand delivered to the node and it be untradeable and unable to be transported outside of the persons inventory. The bounty hunter would have to be in good standings then and not be corrupt. These are just my thoughts and I am sure the Devs with come up with something decent.
Shame, Shame, Shame, Shame
Shame, Shame, Shame, Shame
[/quote]
Sandboxes are all about risk verse reward and they say they are making a sandbox it's hard for some elements to not be shared just like in theme parks you have a lot of questing your the hero and the other faction is the bad guys in your eyes. You have a gear tread mill to climb with old content becoming irrelevant as the game gets expanded to where the raid you did two months ago doesn't even drop as good of loot as the dungeons you run now so new comers can catch up. The only reason to do the old content is for transmogs and you only go back until you get what you were after when RNG finally goes in your favor. Expecting the same type of games to not share characteristics is like expecting to buy a board game that's not played on a board.
It's not like corruption is any different than a security status lose or it's the first MMO that starts by arriving at a new planet because something happened to the old one. Having to destroy player owned cities(stations) to open up new pve content(ratting space) isn't new either though at least it's a community effort to unlock and build the nodes in different areas than the one you just destroyed. It's not the first game to use tab targeting or hot keys. Using caravans(Freighters) to move bulk items around that can be attacked and looted by the victors isn't new that's enough of that though I don't consider any of this a bad thing.
I could go on but it's not my point. My point is you take systems from existing games and make them your own and improve them to make them better. It's not stealing or borrowing or every crafting game in existence would be in trouble for making you gather mats and go to a crafting station to build or have something built by npcs you hired or that are just there for crafting purposes. You can only do the same thing so many ways the question is how do you do it better and set yourself apart from everyone else that has that in their game without breaking it or mucking it up?
Yes but you don’t want to entirely get rid of the risk verse reward it adds to the game. You go in this area and it has the best resources but it’s very dangerous. You make it in and make it out you make bank you don’t you lose what you got from the area. Gives people a reason to team up and go in that area and protect their gatherers especially if a lot of good gear is craftable. Also gives a thrill to the people that want to try to run in target certain areas and make it out without getting killed. I know it sounds weird but some people that like both pve and pvp would find that fun. [/quote]
Compromise means we won't be completely getting rid of anything.
PvP combat and PvP conflict are inherent aspects of this game's design.
Again, people at the extremes will chafe at the mechanics... hopefully, those at the extremes will find the compromises liveable... and those of us who are "PvP-sometimes" players will rejoice. :-D
[quote]Also if your corrupt and you die and lose gear for it then it makes the pvp that much more thrilling and the reward is the pvp in its self at that point. Heart pounding adrenaline running if I don’t pull this off I lose my gear set and have to go naked back to buy more. The walk of shame lol. The PKers won’t always win but you have to look at them as another type of player the other side of the coin so to speak. If being a PKer means when you die you lose all your stuff including equipped items because of corruption they already chose a harder play style and if they have to rebuy gear from the auction house in the end it contributes to the games economy. If guards keep them out of safe zones as well once they get so corrupt it will also make it harder for them to move the stuff they got unless they use a caravan and have another character but then they can fall victim to one of the guilds or groups that could attack the caravan.[/quote]
Huhn. No.
That might be true for people who love PvP combat.
I don't think I ever perceive PvP combat to be a reward. And I experience no real thrill from PvP.
In NWO, it was fun to participate in the faction v faction events.
Losing gear just motivates me to quit the game. I don't play MMORPGs for the fun of losing gear or stealing gear from other players.
The type of PvP combat/conflict that inspires me to is similar to the pillars of AoC:
In the EQNext design -if I have to murder some dryads in order to transmute their Life magic into Shadow magic which augments my Rogue's stealth abilities... I'm gonna go murder some dryads. And if players are gonna try to prevent me from murdering the dryads, well...some player heads might have to roll. Again, losing gear in that scenario would simply motivate me to rage quit the game. I don't find it at all thrilling.
In the Revival lore, the civilized city of Skypass overtook what they thought was an abandoned city of a nomadic culture... while the nomads were away. They built walls around the city and now occupy it. That lore pushed me (I'm typically a carebear pacifist) to want to retake the city and return it to the nomads. If I had to destroy some player homes to accomplish that - ooops. Ifsome players have to die because they don;t want to relinquish their city... - ooops. Tough luck for them.
Has nothing to do with wanting to steal other players items or muck up their xp debt - I don't play games to ruin the play of other people. In my view, that is dispicable.
But, I will engage in PvP combat to defend my city (if players attack it). And it's feasible that I'd participate in a siege to win back a city of mine that has been stolen.
The threat of losing gear just adds to my animosity for a game. It adds no value to my gameplay enjoyment. Rather the polar opposite. One compromise I hope to find liveable in AoC.
I'll have to see how unforgiving the mechanic actually works out to be.
I don't know that corruption will be much of a deterrent for PKs.
In EQ2, my main character was only allowed (for background reasons) to wear the newbie rags. The only upgrades allowed where weapons and jewelry (jewelry crafted by her alt master). Didn't matter that combat at 6oth level might be highly challenging wearing level 1 armor. Character RP trumps everything else.
If I wanted to PK, I don't know that corruption would make a difference. I would probably make alts whose primary purpose was to gain as much corruption as possible. And, in that case, I wouldn't be worried about accruing gear/loot for those characters.
The fun, there, would be playing an evil, corrupt villain who preys on newbies.
That's contrary to my ethics, but if I were playing that role, if evil and corruption are my character objectives, I wouldn't care whether corruption or gear loss made the character more challenging to play.
Sandboxes are all about risk verse reward and they say they are making a sandbox it’s hard for some elements to not be shared just like in theme parks you have a lot of questing your the hero and the other faction is the bad guys in your eyes. You have a gear tread mill to climb with old content becoming irrelevant as the game gets expanded to where the raid you did two months ago doesn’t even drop as good of loot as the dungeons you run now so new comers can catch up. The only reason to do the old content is for transmogs and you only go back until you get what you were after when RNG finally goes in your favor. Expecting the same type of games to not share characteristics is like expecting to buy a board game that’s not played on a board.[/quote]
"Honestly, I am hesitant to call Ashes a sandbox. Not because of what sandbox is supposed to mean, but rather because of how studios have developed 'sandboxes' over the past decade. You see, many developers have used the sandbox concept as an excuse to cut a lot of curated content, in exchange for gimmicky mechanics that allow for player-generated content. In Ashes, we have the opposite approach in development. In order for sandbox mechanics to mean something, there must be curated content to accompany the player’s choices. Which means, as the developers, we must create that themebox style content but for every possible path the community may take. I like to compare our design philosophy, to that of a 'Choose your own adventure' book. Our story is Epic, and you have the ability to be an integral part of that story. Dictating the outcome, in a meaningful way.'"
---Steven Sharif
https://errantpenman.com/2017/01/11/interview-ashes-of-creation-wants-to-bring-the-virtual-world-to-life/
Think out of the box.
<div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/bounty-system-corruption-and-ways-to-get-rid-of-it/page/3/#post-15764" rel="nofollow">Jastorin wrote:</a></div>
Sandboxes are all about risk verse reward and they say they are making a sandbox it’s hard for some elements to not be shared just like in theme parks you have a lot of questing your the hero and the other faction is the bad guys in your eyes. You have a gear tread mill to climb with old content becoming irrelevant as the game gets expanded to where the raid you did two months ago doesn’t even drop as good of loot as the dungeons you run now so new comers can catch up. The only reason to do the old content is for transmogs and you only go back until you get what you were after when RNG finally goes in your favor. Expecting the same type of games to not share characteristics is like expecting to buy a board game that’s not played on a board.
</blockquote>
“Honestly, I am hesitant to call Ashes a sandbox. Not because of what sandbox is supposed to mean, but rather because of how studios have developed ‘sandboxes’ over the past decade. You see, many developers have used the sandbox concept as an excuse to cut a lot of curated content, in exchange for gimmicky mechanics that allow for player-generated content. In Ashes, we have the opposite approach in development. In order for sandbox mechanics to mean something, there must be curated content to accompany the player’s choices. Which means, as the developers, we must create that themebox style content but for every possible path the community may take. I like to compare our design philosophy, to that of a ‘Choose your own adventure’ book. Our story is Epic, and you have the ability to be an integral part of that story. Dictating the outcome, in a meaningful way.'”
—Steven Sharif
<div class=""><a href="https://errantpenman.com/2017/01/11/interview-ashes-of-creation-wants-to-bring-the-virtual-world-to-life/" rel="nofollow">Interview: Ashes of Creation Wants to Bring the Virtual World to Life</a></div>
[/quote]
If your not a PKer killing people that aren't flagged you won't lose any gear just what's in your inventory from my understanding. PvP with out any consequences isn't exciting or thrilling in anyway and leads to players not caring run in separate from group and die resurrect and repeat. At least with consequences people won't be so eager to do this.
Anyway what's being talked about is corruption that players get for attacking people that don't want to pvp. they will allow people to kill them anyway or attack their caravans and take their stuff. Sounds like losing your gear for being corrupt would work to keep you from doing it because it wouldn't be worth the reward of getting what's in that persons bags or loot from the caravan. Though I think you can attack the caravans in certain areas without penalties. It would also give the hardcore players in the game a nich while the players not so inclined take part in the castle sieges, GvG and what not that don't cause corruption. This would make it cater to both crowds.
<div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/bounty-system-corruption-and-ways-to-get-rid-of-it/page/3/#post-15743" rel="nofollow">Jastorin wrote:</a></div>
Yes but you don’t want to entirely get rid of the risk verse reward it adds to the game. You go in this area and it has the best resources but it’s very dangerous. You make it in and make it out you make bank you don’t you lose what you got from the area. Gives people a reason to team up and go in that area and protect their gatherers especially if a lot of good gear is craftable. Also gives a thrill to the people that want to try to run in target certain areas and make it out without getting killed. I know it sounds weird but some people that like both pve and pvp would find that fun.
</blockquote>
Compromise means we won’t be completely getting rid of anything.
PvP combat and PvP conflict are inherent aspects of this game’s design.
Again, people at the extremes will chafe at the mechanics… hopefully, those at the extremes will find the compromises liveable… and those of us who are “PvP-sometimes” players will rejoice. ????
<blockquote>Also if your corrupt and you die and lose gear for it then it makes the pvp that much more thrilling and the reward is the pvp in its self at that point. Heart pounding adrenaline running if I don’t pull this off I lose my gear set and have to go naked back to buy more. The walk of shame lol. The PKers won’t always win but you have to look at them as another type of player the other side of the coin so to speak. If being a PKer means when you die you lose all your stuff including equipped items because of corruption they already chose a harder play style and if they have to rebuy gear from the auction house in the end it contributes to the games economy. If guards keep them out of safe zones as well once they get so corrupt it will also make it harder for them to move the stuff they got unless they use a caravan and have another character but then they can fall victim to one of the guilds or groups that could attack the caravan.
</blockquote>
Huhn. No.
That might be true for people who love PvP combat.
I don’t think I ever perceive PvP combat to be a reward. And I experience no real thrill from PvP.
In NWO, it was fun to participate in the faction v faction events.
Losing gear just motivates me to quit the game. I don’t play MMORPGs for the fun of losing gear or stealing gear from other players.
The type of PvP combat/conflict that inspires me to is similar to the pillars of AoC:
In the EQNext design -if I have to murder some dryads in order to transmute their Life magic into Shadow magic which augments my Rogue’s stealth abilities… I’m gonna go murder some dryads. And if players are gonna try to prevent me from murdering the dryads, well…some player heads might have to roll. Again, losing gear in that scenario would simply motivate me to rage quit the game. I don’t find it at all thrilling.
In the Revival lore, the civilized city of Skypass overtook what they thought was an abandoned city of a nomadic culture… while the nomads were away. They built walls around the city and now occupy it. That lore pushed me (I’m typically a carebear pacifist) to want to retake the city and return it to the nomads. If I had to destroy some player homes to accomplish that – ooops. Ifsome players have to die because they don;t want to relinquish their city… – ooops. Tough luck for them.
Has nothing to do with wanting to steal other players items or muck up their xp debt – I don’t play games to ruin the play of other people. In my view, that is dispicable.
But, I will engage in PvP combat to defend my city (if players attack it). And it’s feasible that I’d participate in a siege to win back a city of mine that has been stolen.
The threat of losing gear just adds to my animosity for a game. It adds no value to my gameplay enjoyment. Rather the polar opposite. One compromise I hope to find liveable in AoC.
I’ll have to see how unforgiving the mechanic actually works out to be.
I don’t know that corruption will be much of a deterrent for PKs.
In EQ2, my main character was only allowed (for background reasons) to wear the newbie rags. The only upgrades allowed where weapons and jewelry (jewelry crafted by her alt master). Didn’t matter that combat at 6oth level might be highly challenging wearing level 1 armor. Character RP trumps everything else.
If I wanted to PK, I don’t know that corruption would make a difference. I would probably make alts whose primary purpose was to gain as much corruption as possible. And, in that case, I wouldn’t be worried about accruing gear/loot for those characters.
The fun, there, would be playing an evil, corrupt villain who preys on newbies.
That’s contrary to my ethics, but if I were playing that role, if evil and corruption are my character objectives, I wouldn’t care whether corruption or gear loss made the character more challenging to play.
[/quote]
It would be very easy to take care of a person like that who preyed on low lvls without the gear to stand up to anyone else outside of that since they would pry be almost as squishy to other high levels as the low levels they are killing. Kind of said for them lol. Corruption wouldn't be caused by participating in sieges,defense and GvG so you wouldn't lose your gear fighting in those since both sides are there for the pvp.
<div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/bounty-system-corruption-and-ways-to-get-rid-of-it/page/3/#post-15645" rel="nofollow">Sanserif wrote:</a></div>
</blockquote>
Seems to me highly unlikely that thieves and assassins would hang around deserts.
Depends on how the stealth skills work, but, as a Rogue/Druid…I’d be more likely to hang out in environments with an ample supply of cover to help me Hide. Forests would be more likely than deserts.
In AoC, cities should have reputations. We should know where Rogues congregate based on the types of buildings in the city.
We might expect that PKs will be likely to gravitate towards Military Metropolises (I expect we’ll be looking at city type rather than biome) but, we’ll have to see.
No way to anticipate what players will do until we get our hands on the game.
[/quote]
Hahaha from a practicality perspective I see your point. If the stealth mechanics are set as more of a "poof" stealth (just going straight invisible) then biomes become irrelevant. I suppose I just through out desert as an example because when I imagine a city of thieves the first thing that comes to mind is Aladdin and Calimport from Forgotten Realms.
I do like the idea of cities gaining reputations, though I imagine that might come about naturally than and build in mechanic.