Quests by players (+ punishment for deaths)

ArchivedUser

One idea I always had, when it comes to MMOs and their always repeating contents, was the possibility for players to create their own quests. If you want to create some unique quests or quests that can alter the story of the game, an open pvp system, housing and so on this leaves a lot of options for player created quests. You need some wood for your house? Offer some silver to low level players. You found a huge and dangerous quest you can't do alone? Look for some fighting pals in you nearby city. Also - and this is where I draw the line to punishment for deaths - there could be bounty hunting quests. If death brings some punishment (partially lootable (gold/itmes...), losing a level or whatever), taking revenge on some players could be a really big thing. xXtheslayer69Xx looted an item he doesn't need but was really good for me? Send some hitmen and make him pay for that :D Also the whole quests by players for players would bring some bigger dynamics and relevance to quests as every player knows that it's not just a NPC you are helping

ArchivedUser

What I think is that if players could create quests, I think it would interfere with normal quests, and players wont have the incentive to do them since, "Well, I can just get a quest from another player and get better rewards, so why do I have to do this quest?" or something along those lines. Also, I like the idea, but maybe it would work out better if it wasn't literally a Quest, what if it was more similar to a bounty-type thing. For example, player A tells you to do X thing and he will reward you with X thing. That seems nice(I know thats basically what you said but..). Also, there is a slight problem with that, what if the quest-giver decides to simply not reward the player? He would get angry and probably stop playing if he was new. There has to be some sort of system for that.

Thats what I think on this,
Cheers!

ArchivedUser

[quote quote=1105]What I think is that if players could create quests, I think it would interfere with normal quests, and players wont have the incentive to do them since, “Well, I can just get a quest from another player and get better rewards, so why do I have to do this quest?” or something along those lines. Also, I like the idea, but maybe it would work out better if it wasn’t literally a Quest, what if it was more similar to a bounty-type thing. For example, player A tells you to do X thing and he will reward you with X thing. That seems nice(I know thats basically what you said but..). Also, there is a slight problem with that, what if the quest-giver decides to simply not reward the player? He would get angry and probably stop playing if he was new. There has to be some sort of system for that.

Thats what I think on this,
Cheers!

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Yeah, having a third party involved would be the best answer. Something to give or refund the reward.

I suppose there could be a reason for this type of thing. One could be "I would like to build a house here, but it is surrounded by high Lv. monsters. Can someone please kill them." List reward: *****.
But this will largely depend on how the mechanics of game are going to be. The monsters will just respawn and destroy the house if there is no way to protect it. Making the whole thing pointless.

ArchivedUser

Maybe you have to put the reward in before you start the search. If you want to give 3 gold as a reward, you need to put it somewhere save beforehand. After the quest is completed (There needs to be a menu where you can choose what the requirements are) the reward is automatically transferred to the other player.
But personally I would prefer the more "hardcore" way. If you put in bounty hunters and kind of a law system it's up to the players how they behave. When it's open world pvp the game needs to balance itself. For example: Player A looks for help to kill a specific NPC. The one who helps (B) him gets 5 gold promised as a reward. After the mob is killed Player A decides to not pay B. As a result B can either kill A to get some reward for himself, pay a bounty hunter (who might loot A partially and get B what he needs) or just denunciate him which results in nobody helping B out again. Of course this needs some adjustment, but I like the general idea of the players handling these problems themselves. I mean, in real life it's not very different, isn't it?

ArchivedUser

[quote quote=1109]Maybe you have to put the reward in before you start the search. If you want to give 3 gold as a reward, you need to put it somewhere save beforehand. After the quest is completed (There needs to be a menu where you can choose what the requirements are) the reward is automatically transferred to the other player.
But personally I would prefer the more “hardcore” way. If you put in bounty hunters and kind of a law system it’s up to the players how they behave. When it’s open world pvp the game needs to balance itself. For example: Player A looks for help to kill a specific NPC. The one who helps (B) him gets 5 gold promised as a reward. After the mob is killed Player A decides to not pay B. As a result B can either kill A to get some reward for himself, pay a bounty hunter (who might loot A partially and get B what he needs) or just denunciate him which results in nobody helping B out again. Of course this needs some adjustment, but I like the general idea of the players handling these problems themselves. I mean, in real life it’s not very different, isn’t it?

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I prefer your method, word would spread fast as to who the con artists were. But I can already hear all the whining from players until they root out these types...... Sacrifice realism for the sake of peace, or not (that is what it boils down to).

ArchivedUser

What if we have both? The rewards could be up to a certain level, or tier. Lets say the rarities are Common-Uncommon-Rare-Legendary-Extinct . Up until Legendary, you can put it in X place and you are guaranteed the item if you complete that player bounty, or quest. But you cant put extincts there, and if you want an extinct, you have to do a player bounty also, but you are not sure that you will get that item from that player. Thats my take on this and I think it sounds fair.

ArchivedUser

I really like that idea! The only challenge will be for the system to know when the quest is actually fulfilled. If there's a normal quest to participate in it's easy, but if there's a individually created task like "Help me kill mob XY", this will be more difficult

ArchivedUser

[quote quote=1118]I really like that idea! The only challenge will be for the system to know when the quest is actually fulfilled. If there’s a normal quest to participate in it’s easy, but if there’s a individually created task like “Help me kill mob XY”, this will be more difficult

[/quote]
Both regarding gameplay and realisme, it would make sense for the questing to start in an inn/tavern, this would open up the gameplay so the innkeeper would keep the reward, while you complete the quest. (+ You get the oppotunity to ask an innkeeper for leads on work).

It would make sense if there where different types of player quests: gathering, killing, bounty etc. Some would require you to be online, like kill "xx monsters", meaning you have to embark on the journey together. Once the quest is completed, the helper can collect their reward. On the otherhand a gathering mission does not require your pressence, so you dont have to online/available.

If you wanna go for full realism we might need a few places to start these quests: Warehouse for gathering, arena for bounties, tavern for monster killing etc. (A bit annoying but more immersive).

(Also isn't this more of a design discussion and not a theorycraft one?)

ArchivedUser

I like how this is turning out! Hah, it seems great.

ArchivedUser

[quote quote=1095] You need some wood for your house? Offer some silver to low level players. You found a huge and dangerous quest you can’t do alone? Look for some fighting pals in you nearby city. Also – and this is where I draw the line to punishment for deaths – there could be bounty hunting quests.[/quote]
This sounds like something that could be combined with the mechanics of "contracts" in Eve Online. You set up a formal notice within the game that you need X service, and attach your reward to that contract, and another player can then accept your contract and claim the reward when the game deems the service met (usually a simple item trade, or delivery of an item from one set location to another).

In game it could be represented by an NPC or Noticeboard attached to your personal house (or a community building like a tavern or marketplace for those without a house or who simply want their contract/quest in a more public locale). You interact with this NPC to create the contract/deposit the reward, at which point the NPC/Noticeboard gains some Quest indicator to let others know you have a contract available. These could double as shopfronts for crafters, the NPC/Noticeboard simply holding contracts for the crafter's wares at the price they wish to sell them. Potentially, you could even set up a contract with another players NPC/Noticeboard (say you want a specific crafter to make you something, you go to his house and set up an order with the NPC/Noticeboard - though arriving at an agreed price efficiently in this manner could get tricky).

ArchivedUser

I really like what this becomes :) It's great that we have a lot of players with very different MMO-experiences in here. I'd personally love the bounty hunter system so much, has anyone ideas for the punishment system when dying? In a game like this I would really like that players need to be more careful about their well-being.

ArchivedUser

Hmmm.. Death punishment.. What if you had a certain PvP level or something, and If you killed people it went up, and you were more respected, or feared.. But if you got killed, it would go down, and you would be less respected, certain PvP things wouldnt be available... or something along those lines..

Im just throwing things out there..

ArchivedUser

The thing is that this would only be a punishment for those who play actively pvp. But I want to pick up something you said: What if you got a reputation system which enables you to do different quests or opens up different answering options. Like, if you are feared warrior people will more likely give you specific quests. When you get killed, they might not trust you with that task and you have to build that reputation again. This of course only applies for certain quests but it could be a nice thing as a reward for a high reputation to feel your world responding to that

ArchivedUser

What if every time you died, you would get a de-buff that would last about 5-10m and would lower the amount of xp you get and make you take more damage in battle or something like that?

ArchivedUser

But I guess that just makes player stop playing for that amount of time to not get into the spiral of dying (with more damage taken). I guess that would just annoy people. I guess my suggestion would be more suttle, less effecting directly but more lasting.

ArchivedUser

Then, what do you think it should be ?

ArchivedUser

What you guys basicly talk about is kinda like the systems in games like "Dishonored", depending on how you play the game you get a different outcome. I just did 2 playthroughs of dishonored, one extremely low chaos and one very high one.

<strong>****MINOR SPOILER ALERT!****</strong>
If you complete it with low chaos/almost no deaths everyone likes you and will help you, but on the otherhand you face way more enemies + they are more organised.
However if you do a high chaos one, everyone basicly turn on eachother, both allies and enemies alike.
<strong>****MINOR SPOILER ALERT DONE!****</strong>

It's quite clear that the way you play the game there affect the world you are in. AoC could have something similar: If you are feared you get more bounty/monster quests, but people wont come with more peaceful ones, and the otherway around. Theres just one kinda obvious problem, what if you wanna try both, or wanna change your characters main focus halfway through the game? Any way thats my take on it :)

Merry christmas and such (if you celebrate it, otherwise goodday Sir/Sirdette)

ArchivedUser

Back from christmas^^ I really like your idea Jule! I think if you wanna change you need to live up to the new identity for a while. It's like in SWTOR where you can do light side and dark side choices which enables you to different dialogue answers. If you want to switch after a while you need to do a lot of the opposite of what you chose and I think that's fair. If you are known as a brutal and strong killer, one tiny choice will not let you be known as a peaceful diplomat overnight

ArchivedUser

I think this is what we should stick with. Seems pretty fair and balanced to me! Now, all we need to figure out is the death punishments...

ArchivedUser

In most games I play a death accounts to a loss of xp and a de-buff. Sometimes you even lose a portion of your inventory or need to find your corpse to collect your missing items. The de-buff is meant to kind of pester the player as incentive to not die, at least that's how I view the de-buff option.
There could be different options too if you want as well where if you die you can select option A) To lose _% xp and a de-buff B) Pay _currency/lose some items C) De-buff/xp loss. It doesn't need to be those options in specific it's just a thought of mine in terms to the topic :).

Regards,
Orgot

ArchivedUser

Oh yes and quests set up by the guilds..
Like retrieve the stolen basket of our guild's merchant,
gather the components to craft our hot air balloon in time,
or find the fat chambermaid before she gets it from a bunch of pirates..

maybe throw in a few competitive quests between guildmembers as well,like a race to a certain place,named-lore area.. or a riddle quest where they have to collect hints and work together to solve it ,if the guildmembers do manage to solve it , repairs on the house , happy hour or somethin

ArchivedUser

That's exactly what I meant :)

ArchivedUser

I'm surprised this topic is buried so far in the back. This concept would add a major + in my opinion. Having the ability to add your own quest to a guild board or a node board would be great. My idea of this process would be for the developers to create a basic custom quest template. The giver selects type of quest: Gathering, Protecting, or Hunting. Inputs Quest request details and Inputs the reward right away. The quest would last a certain amount of time which would be acceptable by guild members or node citizens. There doesnt have to be a trade between players. For example: If i want 100 iron bars gathered, I input Quest Type: Gathering, Quest Details: Gather 100x iron bars, Quest Reward: 100 x currency. This quest would activate on quest list and materials gathered by collector would automatically be accepted by the quest system. Once the quest is complete go to the board again and turn it in to receive your reward. The burden would be on the developers to initiate such as system of quests but this would add a HUGE depth to the questing system. Especially if not all node locations have the same materials in their environments. The system could even add a special citizen standing reward to both the quest participants. Imagine: hiring a party to kill a certain boss in a dungeon to find a specific item you are looking for or a group of people protecting you while you gather certain materials for a specific amount of time.

What do you guys think?

ArchivedUser

I think this is an excellent idea! People always love adding their own touch to a game. That's why character creation is so important to people. EQ2's create your own dungeon option was a huge success. It gave people the ability to create their own dungeons with items and creatures they had collected in the world. EQ Landmark had implemented the ability to create your own local adventures and quests, and it was one of its strongest features before the game was shut down.

Will people try to abuse the system or use it to troll? Of course. But if you put a rating system where players can rate the quest good/bad, it'll sort out the trolling quests at least.

If there are storage restrictions, I could see this as an interesting mechanism to get rid of gear that you just don't have room for anymore. Have a small storage on the quest giver where completing a quest would reward you with a random item that was stored on the quest giver.

I could also see it as a mechanism for stronger guilds to get assistance in building up a particular node. Start offering rewards to bring around players to your desired zone and get them to assist in building up the node.

ArchivedUser

I think this type of system would work well with a "guild". Players from the guild OR not, can make request to members of any guild to complete missions for them.

There could be a UI that will list all similar quest (ie, gathering, monster subjugation, party request, etc) and will have filter functions. The details of the quest and the reward will be listed. If anyone from that guild sees a quest worth doing, they can "claim that quest" and have a 'window' of time to complete it. This window will coincide with it's difficulty.

Upon completing the quest, the go back to the guild for the reward. The person who put up the request will put down a deposit beforehand, and that will be given to the player who completed the quest. The person can return and pick up the requested item anytime after it has been completed.

The reward will mostly be a monetary reward, but the main thing is that guilds that complete these quest will level up their guild. Giving them more reputation and access to facilities the higher they go. The guild reputation will decay over time from stagnation or multiple failed quest attempts.

All quest are given to the guild leader(s) to review and accept. Once accepted, a contract will be formed between the guild and the requester. This is important as quest that aren't fullfilled within a certain timeframe will deem as failures too and will decrease the reputation of the guild. So the guild leaders must be wise to pick and accept quest that are worthwhile doing for their guild members. (Ie, if the guild is full of harvester and gatherers, the guild master should focus on accepting quest for gathering instead of monster subjugation)