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Corruption Discussion

135

Comments

  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited August 2017
    Isende said:
    Ok, simple question here, gang.

    If you wanna PK and gank, why are you seeking to play a game where the devs have explicitly stated that they're doing whatever they can to dissuade that? I mean, gods alone know, there are literally tons of games out there that allow that. Why do you think it's appropriate that that should be a mechanic in all games?

    If you wanna do the crime, you gotta do the time ... anyone ever teach you that? The "killing other players cuz I had a bad day at work and wanna make someone else's day miserable" is -- to me -- one of the most despicable things I could hear someone say. You had a bad day, so you will self-soothe by making someone else's day bad?

    Karma, baby. It's a thing. Just sayin' ... anyway. Please feel free to answer my original question, all moralizing aside.
    What tons of games? Casual players have more than 20 big projects to play , start with WoW and end with BDO. Non indie games with open world PvP, good combat , and third person camera? Any ? Nope. If AoC will become another casual game I dont see any reason why I would play it. I am not alone with such opinion , actually great amount of players just passed over the project because the saw how casual it is now. But while there are other players who think the same, I still have a hope that things could be changed and fit both carebears who are not interested in PvP, Roleplayers , and PvP players. The penalties should be in game, but not as they are now, they should not stop the PK on going for killing spree, and if there is no equipment drop from non combatant players, PK wont drop equipment too. Take the example of UO,  and BDO valencia mechanics , PK can not spawn in cites , he need a base outside of it, there are special cities for PK players, if PK got rekt by bounty hunters or guards he should go to a jail for couple of hours. The game should punish PK , but not restrict it. PvE content and open world is good, but there is no point of getting the best equipment just for beauty , and the open world not worth anything without some good fights on it. Casual non pvp games are dying fast, no matter how many unique mechanics they have, casual gamers are those who expect that they 1 hour of free time is enough to play mmorpg, they leave the game in a month if not less. They dont want to hear that in order to PLAY the game you need to stay in it 3-5 hours a day. They dont understand what MMORPG genre is. They think everything in their game is made for THEM, and other players should not interrupt their gameplay until they agree to. All those MMO'S that we have on the market, guild wars 2 , FFXIV ,WoW are too much casual already, they lead a player from the start to the end , telling him what to do, how to play. What is fun in playing such game? It is boring. They give a player a freedom how to play, all the way from the start to an end you just do what the games tell you to do. Great gameplay 10/10 , people forgot what was the classic RPG genre, and what was fun in it.
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited August 2017
    From my experience people who says that those penalties should be to protect new players , or existing players from griefiers are common carebears who want this protection to avoid PvP as far as possible. Just a fact. 
    That is the reason why PvX fail, if the problem was to protect players from griefing it could be easily solved but no, carebears are using this argument as a shield to remove open world PvP and pvp as well. They dont worry about he PvE and PvP balance in PvX game.
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited August 2017
    From my experience people who say that those penalties should be removed to allow players to grief and murderbox at will are sociopaths looking to drive casual players from "their" game. Just a fact.
  • Simple question.  
    Why are you here if you do not like or care for what the DEVELOPERS have planned and are designing this game to be?   They want our feed back and for us to help test it,  not for us to turn it inside out from what they desire to produce.

    If you want to turn it into YOUR dream game, design one and finance it as Intrepid has.
  • Annatar said:
    Isende said:

    If you wanna PK and gank, why are you seeking to play a game where the devs have explicitly stated that they're doing whatever they can to dissuade that? I mean, gods alone know, there are literally tons of games out there that allow that. Why do you think it's appropriate that that should be a mechanic in all games?
    They are here because of how successful all of the other full-loot PK games are.  The Felucca shard for UO was hugely successful and turned the game around, so was Mortal Online, so many players, such a great game.  Darkfall has been such a huge success that it has been relaunched a few times.

    Every time I read about a new game coming out that is going to be full-loot-PvP-24/7-PK I just know that it is going to be a huge financial success and bring in a record number of subscribers and keep those subscribers for many, many years.  And other hardcore PKers will agree with me that you need 24/7 PKing in order to stop your game from being a failure.   I know so because I read it on the internet.
    Then if these games are/were so successful, why do you need this one. I repeat, the devs have already stated that they're not going that way. Why on earth do you think that you gotta have just one more?

    And your last two sentences did make me laugh.
  • Annatar said:
    Eleanc said:

    That is the reason why PvX fail, 
    How many hugely successful PvP/PK MMOs are there?  
    Literally only runescape rofl
  • Annatar said:
    Eleanc said:

    That is the reason why PvX fail, 
    How many hugely successful PvP/PK MMOs are there?  

    Seriously?

    EvE Online comes to mind as a moderately successful niche game (for sci-fi fans), but where are all the rest?  Where are the shining beacons of financial success with expanding population growth over 5-7 (heck, even 3-4) years for PvP/PK games?  And if they are out there, and so successful, why aren't you playing them?

    Ashes of Creations successes will come from appealing to a broad range of players.  It's failures would come if they listened to a vocal minority.  PKers make up less than 1% of MMORPG players.  Just a fact. ;)

    Ultima Online , EvE, Runescape.
    Other have poor combat or (and) pay2win, the problem is in greedy devs not in PvP/PK.
    Now it is mine turn to ask, how many successful PvE, PvX MMO's are there? WoW ? 1 single mmorpg? 
  • It disappoints me that a majority of this community are against PVP. One mans griefing or ganking is another mans ambush, PVP isn't always going to be fair, that's the point of it. The strong kill the weak. It adds its own economy onto the base economy of any MMO, especially if players drop gear. You can't restrict PVP to dueling and arena fights because they're fair and remove corruption when referring to them. It'd completely kill the PVP scene for this game, which I personally hope to enjoy to its fullest. I know quite a few of you want to do primarily PVE related things and that's fine, but you must also accept that PVP can and will happen. Be prepared for anything and everything.
  • Vortigern said:
    It disappoints me that a majority of this community are against PVP. One mans griefing or ganking is another mans ambush, PVP isn't always going to be fair, that's the point of it. The strong kill the weak. It adds its own economy onto the base economy of any MMO, especially if players drop gear. You can't restrict PVP to dueling and arena fights because they're fair and remove corruption when referring to them. It'd completely kill the PVP scene for this game, which I personally hope to enjoy to its fullest. I know quite a few of you want to do primarily PVE related things and that's fine, but you must also accept that PVP can and will happen. Be prepared for anything and everything.
    This game has really good PvP mechanics and systems, it just needs real PvP players and not panties like gankers who are just after easy kills. There is huge difference.   
  • Ferryman said:
    Vortigern said:
    It disappoints me that a majority of this community are against PVP. One mans griefing or ganking is another mans ambush, PVP isn't always going to be fair, that's the point of it. The strong kill the weak. It adds its own economy onto the base economy of any MMO, especially if players drop gear. You can't restrict PVP to dueling and arena fights because they're fair and remove corruption when referring to them. It'd completely kill the PVP scene for this game, which I personally hope to enjoy to its fullest. I know quite a few of you want to do primarily PVE related things and that's fine, but you must also accept that PVP can and will happen. Be prepared for anything and everything.
    This game has really good PvP mechanics and systems, it just needs real PvP players and not panties like gankers who are just after easy kills. There is huge difference.   
    People forget that combat in the real world, and in-game cover all factors of the fight. Be it "ganking", offline raids, zerging etc. It's up to you, and you alone to be able to deal with all forms of combat effectively. I don't like "gankers" myself, but I understand it's a part of the battle.
  • IVortigern said:
    Ferryman said:
    Vortigern said:
    It disappoints me that a majority of this community are against PVP. One mans griefing or ganking is another mans ambush, PVP isn't always going to be fair, that's the point of it. The strong kill the weak. It adds its own economy onto the base economy of any MMO, especially if players drop gear. You can't restrict PVP to dueling and arena fights because they're fair and remove corruption when referring to them. It'd completely kill the PVP scene for this game, which I personally hope to enjoy to its fullest. I know quite a few of you want to do primarily PVE related things and that's fine, but you must also accept that PVP can and will happen. Be prepared for anything and everything.
    This game has really good PvP mechanics and systems, it just needs real PvP players and not panties like gankers who are just after easy kills. There is huge difference.   
    People forget that combat in the real world, and in-game cover all factors of the fight. Be it "ganking", offline raids, zerging etc. It's up to you, and you alone to be able to deal with all forms of combat effectively. I don't like "gankers" myself, but I understand it's a part of the battle.
    IRL as well as in any game there are consequences to actions which "cover all factors of fighting."  
    "Be it "ganking", offline raids, zerging etc. It's up to you, and you alone to be able to deal with all forms of combat effectively."   Which include the consequences of your choices.  So are the spoils, whether rewards or loses.  It once again comes down to choices. 
  • Annatar said:
    Eleanc said:
    Annatar said:
    Eleanc said:

    That is the reason why PvX fail, 
    How many hugely successful PvP/PK MMOs are there?  

    Seriously?

    EvE Online comes to mind as a moderately successful niche game (for sci-fi fans), but where are all the rest?  Where are the shining beacons of financial success with expanding population growth over 5-7 (heck, even 3-4) years for PvP/PK games?  And if they are out there, and so successful, why aren't you playing them?

    Ashes of Creations successes will come from appealing to a broad range of players.  It's failures would come if they listened to a vocal minority.  PKers make up less than 1% of MMORPG players.  Just a fact. ;)

    Ultima Online , EvE, Runescape.
    Other have poor combat or (and) pay2win, the problem is in greedy devs not in PvP/PK.
    Now it is mine turn to ask, how many successful PvE, PvX MMO's are there? WoW ? 1 single mmorpg? 
    No mate, you are dodging the question.  You keep gibbering on about how AoC will fail if gankers aren't allowed to gank without penalty (or in your words allowed to PvP without restrictions) and I asked you to tell me about all of the hugely successful games that have that PvP/PK model.  You didn't.  UO barely cracked 250k+ (and was most populated after Trammel was introduced), EvE is a moderately successful niche game, and Runescape?!?  Who the frick played Runescape except for 13 year old kids?  Seriously?  

    My point is that there are no current PvP/PK games out there that have had any level of substantial financial success or longevity for you to continue to keep making the hyperbolic claims that AoC will fail if Intrepid doesn't cater to your play-style.  The mental gymnastics that you and your ilk go through to try and create your strawman arguments to justify your play-style is amusing at best.  We know how hardcore PvP/PK games turn out, just look at Felucca, Mortal Online, Darkfall Online etc..  There is no mass market appeal for them or they would be more successful, and there would be more of them.

    What you seem to be unable to grasp is that AoC's success will come from not driving away players.  That's right!  MMORPGs need people, paying subscription, to keep them financially solvent and to fund further development.  If your game allows the wholesale mass slaughter of anyone and everyone you are already making your product unappealing to the majority of MMO players out there, and will drive away paying customers who don't have the time to waste on the misanthropes who are PKing to get their jollies.  As it stands, the current Corruption system is at best a harsh deterrent to such asinine behaviour, and might just be enough to attract the attention of people that may have been usually just PvE players, but who are willing to give PvX a try.  And more customers means more money for the developers, continued developments/improvements to the game and more people to keep the game fresh.

    The one common theme that has run through a lot of these threads/post about the Corruption system is fear.  And it is funny that the fear is coming from the 'hardcore' PKers.  Fear of the loss of combat effectiveness.  Fear of having your gear break.  Fear of being hunted down by Bounty Hunters and every other player that can see your Red flag.  Fear of loss.  And that says to me that the Corruption system as it stands is a good thing.  It means that the system is going to make people think about the repercussions of their actions before they act, that they aren't going to just engage in the wholesale slaughter of non-combatants just for fun.   
    This. ^^ I could not say it better. :-)
  • -snip-
    IRL as well as in any game there are consequences to actions which "cover all factors of fighting."  
    "Be it "ganking", offline raids, zerging etc. It's up to you, and you alone to be able to deal with all forms of combat effectively."   Which include the consequences of your choices.  So are the spoils, whether rewards or loses.  It once again comes down to choices. 
    It feels as though that's the thing these ... players ... can't get through their heads. Well, two things. One is that anything counter to their view actually is a valid view, even if they decry it, and the other is that IRL, choosing to kill someone because they're trying to scavenge in the same dumpster you're scavenging in still means you have to face the consequences.
  • Stat lose for killing is ****. There are no other world for it.
    Just think about it a little, why would you lose stats for killing someone? For what reason? Who and why causes you to lose stats? You just play and hop, from nothing you "magically" lose a percent of your health and damage cause why not?
    Awesome game design, 10/10...

    Not like it would actually be effective anyway. You could just stack corruption, and when you become too weak, just ask one of your friend to kill you a few times, the corruption vanishes, and he give back your items anyway.
    Heck, your friend joins as a bounty hunter first, and not only resets your corruption, but even earns reward for it.

  • The big difference with PVP in an MMO is that IT ISN'T SKILL BASED, IT'S GEAR/LEVEL BASED. I'm just not a fan of a system where some guy who might suck at PVP can press 1,1,1,1 and kill me and even if I drop every skill I have on him, he takes 1% damage.
    No. If you are skilled, you can easily escape. The ones who complain about being ganked are usually noobs, who suck even at max level, so it didn't matter, even if they would have better gear, they would still suck hard.

    The only real solution would be creating low level PvP off zones, where PvP is disabled, but would also have low resources in it.
    This way everyone could level up without risk of being killed by players, but if they would earn loots, they would need to take risk.

    No amount of punishment will prevent gankers. As long as it's not disabled they will going to gank, and so they snowflakes will quit.
  • Glad you formed an opinion without doing any research. You will go far I'm sure once the game hits live.
    Corruption is the mechanic by which the gods destroyed the world aeons ago, causing the races to flee through portals and what was to become the Tulnar to flee underground. Now another pantheon of gods has decided it is time to take back the world from those corrupted gods. Do evil shit, gain corruption. You physically become more twisted as your soul is wracked. So there is your justification for stat loss. Once you die you gain a negative exp loss. Not just by being corrupted, for any death. The penalty is just higher based on your level of corruption. Be out farming mobs, die, exp debt. Be a PK'ing jackass, higher exp debt, possibility to drop/destroy gear, with the percentage going up the more you PK.
    Here's the thing on your "have a friend kill you" workaround. It has already been thought of and planned for. You cannot attack anyone on your friends list, group/raid member, guild member, or alliance member. So to do that, your buddy would need to be off your friends list and not in your guild. Dropping your guild will have a cooldown and penalties attached like losing built up access to guild perks. So if you want to be an ass and murderbox, must be a good friend willing to drop guild for you, and deal with the repercussions till he can get back in your EliteDarkShadows epeen guild. Don't worry, most of the workarounds will be tested in alpha and beta by crafty people wanting to break the system to make it stronger.
    There is no fast travel, and bounty hunting will most likely be a quest you have to pick up from a military node (confirmed), so the odds of your friend being able to get your specific bounty will be small. (reference SWG bounty hunting if you need a refresher on how it most likely will work.)
    So the next time you want to outrage post, come in backed up with actual knowledge, people may take you seriously then.
  • Jesus, can't any of you have a decent discussion without whining? This place has turned into a shit-show.
  • 4 carebears asking me the same questions after they already been answered.
    It is impossible to prove that open PvP should be in game and that it is more than just ganking to a carebear. Online wedding that what the game really needs.
    @Annatar
    What question am I dodging exactly ? UO is still popular, Crowfall got 40k people supporting it on kickstarter. BDO and Archage were good PvP games on start , until the rules have been changed to satisfy some carebears, and than both games died. Albion got good idea but terrible realisation , the genre is really missing PvP games , 20+ games for casuals on the market you can choose from. People got tired from the carebears and casuals in every game. They start whining first about how hard is it to play in the world with open world PvP (although everyone are playing on the same rules). 
    You all want to make a system where open world PvP would not have any place, it is the opposite of what we want as PvP players. We understand that killing other player should have penalties, but they should be fair. So system where you loose part of your best equipment , as well as part of loot can not take place until everyone will have the same chance for it. Dont forget that you need to win the fight first, it is not so easy to do. Fair rules are, no equipment lost, no loot lost, no negative xp stucks , no reveal on the map, only static xp loss maybe 2-3 % more than a regular player, guards in city can attack the player, a possibility to restore karma by farming mobs for 2-3 hours,special camps and cities for pk players. If a player with negative karma is killed by bounty hunter he goes to a jail for 2-3 hours. It requires to kill 2-3 players before going negative karma.


  • Now another pantheon of gods has decided it is time to take back the world from those corrupted gods. Do evil shit, gain corruption. You physically become more twisted as your soul is wracked. So there is your justification for stat loss.
    No, if there would be so powerful good who doesn't want peoples to kill each other, they could just easily prevent them from even attacking the others.
    But no, he just watch how someone murder a other, and then give him some mirror punishment instead of killing him right anyway.
    And that's not enough, that so almighty, wise and powerful good with unlimited vision over the whole world, for some reason have short memory, so after a player dies, the good didn't know that he's a murder who killed hundreds if not thousands of innocent, so he still just give him some mirror dampening, and watch how he goes in a murder ten more.
    yeah... bullshit...
    That's why I said it's ****. You can create lore to defend it, but then try harder, much harder...
  • Vortigern said:
    Jesus, can't any of you have a decent discussion without whining? This place has turned into a shit-show.
    First we discussed about this, but now after several threads row with same topics it is getting little bit messy. So basically mostly same people are arguening of same things. But it seems every time new players are joining the "fun" too. We are in infinite loop i guess.  :wink:
  • Annatar said:

    They are here because of how successful all of the other full-loot PK games are.  The Felucca shard for UO was hugely successful and turned the game around, so was Mortal Online, so many players, such a great game.  Darkfall has been such a huge success that it has been relaunched a few times.

    Every time I read about a new game coming out that is going to be full-loot-PvP-24/7-PK I just know that it is going to be a huge financial success and bring in a record number of subscribers and keep those subscribers for many, many years.  And other hardcore PKers will agree with me that you need 24/7 PKing in order to stop your game from being a failure.   I know so because I read it on the internet.
    just for sake of argument how do the populations add up to say wow ?

    While i agree full loot pvp games can be a success they are a very small market in the big picture. if that was all anyone wanted 80% of the games out there would not exist.
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited August 2017
    I think AoC has the right idea. semi-consentual pvp . I mean its there can happen at any time but cooperation is the big focus ( even pvp cooperation )

    Intrepid has said many times this will not be a gankfest well its not carebare island either. The more i think on this the more i like it. AA is a pvp game with more bots in safe zones then actual players . that is one problem pvp can solve.
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited August 2017
    Yep, this is one of the ways you can disrupt bots. Since there will be collision in combat, you will be able to disrupt AFK pathing bots fairly easily. Attacks that move bots without killing them will be available. So flag purple and smack the green down to 25 percent health till their pathing macro is broken. Or go full red and kill them and take a percentage of what they had bot farmed. Of course you'll take the corruption hit, but maybe it will be worth it to you.
    Edit: And of course don't forget to FRAPS, stream, or screen shot the bots activity and send the footage along with your report about them so they can investigate the account and ban them.
  • yeah guys if you dont like it just dont pvp !!!!! 
  • tsutsu said:
    yeah guys if you dont like it just dont pvp !!!!! 
    Uncertain whom you are speaking to here. The "carebears" who want gankers/griefers to deal with the consequences of their actions? Or the gankers/griefers who don't want to deal with the consequences of their actions?
  • Isende said:
    tsutsu said:
    yeah guys if you dont like it just dont pvp !!!!! 
    Uncertain whom you are speaking to here. The "carebears" who want gankers/griefers to deal with the consequences of their actions? Or the gankers/griefers who don't want to deal with the consequences of their actions?
    You're quite antagonistic aren't you? I assume @tsutsu was talking to everyone.
  • Annatar said:
    Isende said:
    tsutsu said:
    yeah guys if you dont like it just dont pvp !!!!! 
    Uncertain whom you are speaking to here. The "carebears" who want gankers/griefers to deal with the consequences of their actions? Or the gankers/griefers who don't want to deal with the consequences of their actions?
    We really need to flip the terminology, because the only people on these forums that are trying really, really hard to make the game easier for themselves are the ganker/griefer crowd.  They are behaving more like 'carebears' than the rest of us.
    Well you are right. One definition of Carebear is player who tries influence to developers with suggestions making the game more easy or cozy for him/herself.

    Carebear is vague notion, which have several definitions. So basically there is different kind of Carebears. 
  • Annatar said:
    Kadin said:
    Annatar said:

    They are here because of how successful all of the other full-loot PK games are.  The Felucca shard for UO was hugely successful and turned the game around, so was Mortal Online, so many players, such a great game.  Darkfall has been such a huge success that it has been relaunched a few times.

    Every time I read about a new game coming out that is going to be full-loot-PvP-24/7-PK I just know that it is going to be a huge financial success and bring in a record number of subscribers and keep those subscribers for many, many years.  And other hardcore PKers will agree with me that you need 24/7 PKing in order to stop your game from being a failure.   I know so because I read it on the internet.
    just for sake of argument how do the populations add up to say wow ?

    While i agree full loot pvp games can be a success they are a very small market in the big picture. if that was all anyone wanted 80% of the games out there would not exist.
    @Kadin  Damn dude, now I feel bad.  My post was pure and utter sarcastic crap and not meant to be take seriously.  Both Mortal Online and Darkfall Online, before they launched, were being hyped on gaming forums as the future of full-loot PvP games and they were going to show the industry that there was a huge market for that type of game.  Both failed to deliver.  The drama of it all made a lot of people laugh, myself included.
    The problem with full loot mmorpg games that their devs think that if they have full loot pvp , there is no need in other game content. The problem is not with open world PvP but in the game itself. Even albion with its full loot PvP doesnt have real full loot. Blue zones no full loot, red zones kill a player and all the server will try to kill you, black zones the player saw you on the corner of his screen and begin to run , you will never be able to catch him. The combat is boring ,the grind (99% of the game ) is boring.
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited August 2017
    Annatar said:
    Isende said:
    tsutsu said:
    yeah guys if you dont like it just dont pvp !!!!! 
    Uncertain whom you are speaking to here. The "carebears" who want gankers/griefers to deal with the consequences of their actions? Or the gankers/griefers who don't want to deal with the consequences of their actions?
    We really need to flip the terminology, because the only people on these forums that are trying really, really hard to make the game easier for themselves are the ganker/griefer crowd.  They are behaving more like 'carebears' than the rest of us.
    "You want to see open world PvP in game, you are a carebear!" Contradictions sir.

  • Annatar said:
    Eleanc said:
    Annatar said:
    Isende said:
    tsutsu said:
    yeah guys if you dont like it just dont pvp !!!!! 
    Uncertain whom you are speaking to here. The "carebears" who want gankers/griefers to deal with the consequences of their actions? Or the gankers/griefers who don't want to deal with the consequences of their actions?
    We really need to flip the terminology, because the only people on these forums that are trying really, really hard to make the game easier for themselves are the ganker/griefer crowd.  They are behaving more like 'carebears' than the rest of us.
    "You want to see open world PvP in game, you are a carebear!" Contradictions sir.

    Not really.  AoC has an open world PvP system.  You may not like the system, but it is there.  You are trying to make the system 'easier' than it currently is, you know, safer for you.  And trying to make the game easier and safer for you is a sort of carebear thing to do.
    After playing Rust for so many years, I don't care if I lose a piece of my gear while I'm corrupt. But I will be disappointed if they follow the RNG improvement route such as BDO. Makes for a sad day.
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