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Level Immortality

Hello my fellow game lovers id like to talk about the immortality of players due to their level dwarfing yours in comparison.

Now dont get me wrong im all for an experienced player completely messing up someone because they put more time in the game than the other player, but what i wanna know is if the creators gave this game a leveling system or a skill system .

Seeing the little bit of game play i have seen from the ashes of creation channel im going to assume its going to be a leveling system that the devs put in the game. Thus stems my worries of players that will become almost immortal to newer players due to level difference. Now im not really talking about a level 1 vs a cap lvl player but say something along the lines of a level 30 to a leveI 50, 60, or 70 player Ive seen way to many mmos that when you get to a certain level you can one hit someone whos under you or if the lower person hits you they hit only ones for damage and you could literally go eat a meal, take a nap, do some hw, go to school and come back and they still wouldnt be any closer to killing you. I wanna give this game the benefit of the doubt because its going to have open world pvp and i know the devs dont want people running around one hitting people out of the beginner portals sooo.... Yea.

What do you guys think? Do you think that you could support this game's pvp system if you can power level so high that you will be one hitting people that arent quite as strong as you? Lemme know your thoughts

Comments

  • @2landman

    (Unofficial Answer)

    Thanks 2landman for the interesting question. I can kinda see what you are talking about. If AOC puts a leveling system which i believe they will, this will be something hard to stay away from. A good example of this would be World Of Warcraft's gear system. I remember where senor players would get " Inherit Gear" While this isnt the level issue. It killed the game for new players. For senor players from 1-50 i believe, this made you a god to anyone that didnt have it. Low level pvp you are getting 1 to 3 hit killed while they were like a "Small Area Boss" that took 15 to 20 hits to kill.

    Other games have tried to fight this gap in many ways. However i believe it kinda killed the PVP aspect of the game.

    1) Level Capping Areas: This would make a area have a level cap. If you were level 50 and went to a noob area, your level would down grade to level 10. You of course had your gear and more skills but it prevented you from 1 hit killing, however you were still really strong.

    2) Raising Levels: Some PVP instances they would raise you to max level and only people with better gear, natural Max level, and full unlocked skills could do better. However this allowed low level players to jump into pvp. ESO did this. AOC would have to do something like this for the Caravan Trade System, for defence and attacking.

    All in all i really hope they do not do this. While there are system that try to make things even AOC seems to have some Anti Grieving Mechanics in play.
  • I think capping the zone to a certain level OR raising the level is just wrong. Both options.

    Giving new players some sort of newb-status in which they are not able to be attacked would just do the trick. Unless they contribute to the PVP, ofc.
  • [quote quote=11917]I think capping the zone to a certain level OR raising the level is just wrong. Both options.

    Giving new players some sort of newb-status in which they are not able to be attacked would just do the trick. Unless they contribute to the PVP, ofc.

    [/quote]

    @Thyral0n

    I couldnt agree more, as i said i really hope they dont do something like this. So many games have and it just drives me nuts. You start to loose that rewarding feeling you get. Instead the developers are just like "Here ill max you for this, or awww dont worry ill penalize the senor players for you."

    However i do agree with some temporary buff for new player to prevent them from getting killed for maybe a level or 2, and or if they attack they loose the buff. Enough to protect them to get a taste of the game, but not baby them and hold there hand most the game.
  • Jeah, right. You also should not be able to PvP with just flagging for PvP while you have this newb-status. Just so you can't get surprised by one with this status.

    And it should not be bound to a certain level. It should be bound to the total time your entire account has been around. So toons won't get that buff. Plus - I also would not like to have <strong>any </strong>kind of this system right at the start of the game. It would ruin the fun of something new - at least to me.
  • First of all, please no lvl cap areas that would suck and its bad.


    They should add a normal lvl system.
  • Honestly I prefer a leveling system where you more or less can "one-shot" a novice player at level 1, because that's not the kind of pvp I'm interested in, and it defeats the purpose of leveling if you aren't getting considerably stronger.

    I believe the outlaw system put in place, if done correctly, will prevent high level players from "ganking" lower level players due to the fact they grant little to no reward, and it will put a mark on you, making it more hazzle than reward (joy of annoying someone else?).

    Seeing this is a western buildt mmorpg, I am hoping the leveling system will be a short experience, so endgame content can be enjoyed sooner rather than later (I never saw the point in requiring people to spend 3 weeks of grinding mobs and doing quests before you could play a class). And rather prefer they would let you improve on your class once you reached endgame, for example how WOW now has a artifact/power system.
  • This is an interesting issue that can make or brake a new player's first impression.

    <blockquote>I wanna give this game the benefit of the doubt because its going to have open world pvp and i know the devs dont want people running around one hitting people out of the beginner portals sooo…. Yea.</blockquote>

    So far we know the corruption system is supposed to keep griefing in check.

    DeathsProxy did a video on it
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojCv0wS9uXQ

    It will have to be carefully balanced to actually be effective at preventing griefing for fun / abuse of the system and not discourage <strong>meaningful</strong> open world pvp.

    I think EVE Online would be a good example to look at when it comes to (non-)effectiveness of anti-griefing systems and of how players abuse it / find loopholes in the system.

    At the end of the day the question is how far are developers willing to go to prevent such a thing. Everythings that gives non-PvPers security will be seen as a restriction to PvPers so this will be a difficult thing to balance and will probably take time even after the game is launched.
  • I don't like vertical scaling, especially with leveling. It doesn't make me feel stronger. I think power creep is one of the biggest issues MMOs face. I'd rather scale horizontally as i level so i don't completely out grow content and it's easier to play with new players. As we progress, things should get easier to fight but i don't think we should ever be at the point where we can kill a whole zone by breathing on it.
  • [quote quote=12001]I don’t like vertical scaling, especially with leveling. It doesn’t make me feel stronger. I think power creep is one of the biggest issues MMOs face. I’d rather scale horizontally as i level so i don’t completely out grow content and it’s easier to play with new players. As we progress, things should get easier to fight but i don’t think we should ever be at the point where we can kill a whole zone by breathing on it.

    [/quote]

    Well if you look at WOW currently, they have an item level focus, meaning your mobs are scaled around your current gear and level, meaning you can fight a 5.000.000 Health enemy, while someone in your party, fighting the same enemy, only is fighting a 3.000.000 health enemy.

    It helps to keep content meaningful, and might be something we see here in Ashes of Creation with World Bosses, it surely will be interesting to see.

    You might be on to something about seeing some change to the whole leveling system, personally I want access to end-game right away, being a PVP-player, and while I appreciate new content to keep the game fresh, it might not be realistic to see new content every 6 months like in WOW in this game, at least not in the beginning. Besides, if you travel around leveling zones in WOW, you find nothing more than huge areas being empty, only draining server power.
  • i thinks that would be not good for new players to not have a chance in the game it will make people d'ant like the game (the new people) protection for the new player are important
  • [quote quote=12034]i thinks that would be not good for new players to not have a chance in the game it will make people d’ant like the game (the new people) protection for the new player are important

    [/quote]

    I really don't get this mentality at all. Such entitlement.
    If you just started the game and have been playing for only a couple weeks why should you be able to compete with someone who's been playing the game for 2 years?
  • [quote quote=12294]

    I really don’t get this mentality at all. Such entitlement.
    If you just started the game and have been playing for only a couple weeks why should you be able to compete with someone who’s been playing the game for 2 years?

    [/quote]

    well that would make the game unbalanced by your logic cause what your basically saying is that say if you started game release and i started a year after you that i should never compare to you cause you started before me. sorry to tell you but that's just not how games work at all. its not entitlement its giving everyone a fair chance at loving and progressing into the game. RaTiLe was just saying that maybe there should be a temporary way to protect the new comers is all.
  • [quote quote=12300]<blockquote>
    <div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/level-immortality/#post-12294" rel="nofollow">Ezenkrul87 wrote:</a></div>
    I really don’t get this mentality at all. Such entitlement.
    If you just started the game and have been playing for only a couple weeks why should you be able to compete with someone who’s been playing the game for 2 years?

    </blockquote>
    well that would make the game unbalanced by your logic cause what your basically saying is that say if you started game release and i started a year after you that i should never compare to you cause you started before me. sorry to tell you but that’s just not how games work at all. its not entitlement its giving everyone a fair chance at loving and progressing into the game. RaTiLe was just saying that maybe there should be a temporary way to protect the new comers is all.

    [/quote]

    That's not at all what he's saying, but the idea someone who haven't even reached endgame should be able to fight someone who's at endgame who has progressed and gotten gear is just mental.

    If someone gank low level, put a bounty on their ass, perhaps with more focus on low level ganking making it something you might not want to do, but rather make the whole "level to max lvl" fast, not like a 3 week thing.

    Anyone who has ever played a mmorpg know you can't beat someone at max lvl, and I honestly don't see the problem here. I always play on pvp servers in wow, I have leveled 30+ chars to lvl 100+ and I honestly can count on 1 hand the times I've been repeatedly ganked making lvling impossible, sure someone might travel past you and have their fun, but you get back on the leveling horse and it's not a problem. In this game they'll put a mark on themselves by doing so, so I can't imagine it being a large issue.
  • This is why I much prefer soft and hard cap systems. By allowing players to have a soft cap than almost anyone can achieve with some effort and time, and also having a incredibly hard to reach hard cap. For example, you soft cap at level 70, but reaching the hard cap of 80 will give you some bonus stats, alongside some other advantage of actually reaching hard cap, but this process will be grindy and lengthy, only done by those who really play at a level in which you need that 1% edge.
  • [quote quote=12300]<blockquote>
    <div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/level-immortality/#post-12294" rel="nofollow">Ezenkrul87 wrote:</a></div>
    I really don’t get this mentality at all. Such entitlement.
    If you just started the game and have been playing for only a couple weeks why should you be able to compete with someone who’s been playing the game for 2 years?

    </blockquote>
    well that would make the game unbalanced by your logic cause what your basically saying is that say if you started game release and i started a year after you that i should never compare to you cause you started before me. sorry to tell you but that’s just not how games work at all. its not entitlement its giving everyone a fair chance at loving and progressing into the game. RaTiLe was just saying that maybe there should be a temporary way to protect the new comers is all.

    [/quote]

    How is that unbalanced and how is that not a sense of entitlement? You cannot expect to be on the same level of someone who has spent more time doing something. Games are what you make it, if you're not having fun then that could be a personal issue and probably coincides with your sense of entitlement. Unless you get things how you want to get things then it doesn't work for you.
    I get helping out new players, but they also need to work for the things that they want. There will be a system in place to help pking, make some friends to help you out and enjoy the game with. There are always going to be people in an online community that enjoy killing low level players or just random people, just do not feed into it. Brush it off your shoulder and move on. They will get tired eventually especially if they are not getting a reaction from you.
  • I always liked the Elder Scrolls (single player games, not the MMO) series hybrid leveling where there was both the skill leveling as well as the core stat leveling at certain tiers. Having a hard cap though is necessary to keep balance for new players, and new players are necessary to keep the game thriving well past the first year. Any other opinions of "i worked hard, i deserved to stay on the top" is just elitist and self defeating to the game's longevity, and can be easily tempered with "x player and y player have the same level, but x player has been playing longer and is better at playing the game than y player due to an entire year more of experience"

    in other instances, playing ahead of time and having somewhat better gear can give another slight edge, but even WoW has switched to pvp being more skill based and less gear intensive to allow level playing ground, and its my opinion that that's the way to go.
  • I always saw leveling as pointless you spend a relatively small amount of time leveling to max level then spend 99% of your actual playtime at max level. Kind of makes it seem more like an extended tutorial. Why waste development time making these low level areas that players will only spend a small amount of their playtime in when you could instead have more endgame content? just get rid of levels and let them spend their skill/stat points as they will. Then maybe there wont be low level dungeons that no one ever goes into a year down the line.
  • The best thing to do if someone attacks you and you are not flagged for PvP is to just stand there. Once they kill you and get flagged red, you friends or guild mates or anyone else standing around can kill them without getting flagged.

    Its reverse griefing.
  • [quote quote=12675]The best thing to do if someone attacks you and you are not flagged for PvP is to just stand there. Once they kill you and get flagged red, you friends or guild mates or anyone else standing around can kill them without getting flagged.

    Its reverse griefing.

    [/quote]

    That depends on a series of factors. How many mobs do you have to kill to clear corruption from killing a single player? Could the other player kill you and have enough time to clear his corruption before your backup arrives? Or even before you have enough time to spawn and catch up to him? Killing other players will definitely be a strategical decision in most cases, either to maintain dominance in a certain spot you find good for farming or if you're on the opposing guild's KOS list.
  • The veterans are the ones with the entitlement issues IMHO.
    How long you have been in the game should be irrelevant.
    What should matter is how good/skilled you are at the game.
    Especially in regard PvP.

    That's the difference between vertical and horizontal progressions sytems.
    One creates a hierarchy of power, domination submission and exclusion.
    One creates fully inclusive parity of power between players, where the only separation is preferred playstyles and skill.

    So how are these seeking superiority rather than parity not the entitled ones ?
    I think some people have their moral compass thoroughly messed up.
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