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Kickstarter Rant

I have only found a few games in my lifetime that i have been excited enough to actually back the game from Kickstarter Stage. This game is one of the very few, but I can't really decide which pack to get. Usually I buy the pack that gets me the earliest access to the game so I can get right into the game, see how things work and give my feedback to help the game grow. But $425 is waaaay to much for me. So I looked for the next earliest access to the game, $125 for Closed Alpha Phase 2. Now you get 4 months of Game Time plus a bunch of Cosmetic Crap. I personally don't really care about cosmetic items at this stage of the game. The 4 months of game time is worth around $50, so i would be paying $75 to play the game early. That's just not worth it to me. To me the only pack that seems worth to me is the $40 for access to to Closed Beta Phase 2. Before I bought the pack I decided to scroll down the page and I saw what games the Devs had experience with. Wait Everquest Next!!!!!!! I backed that game from the beginning. AoC and Everquest Next had the same kind of game concepts. A world that reacts to player's decisions. Well Everquest Next never made it to Alpha. The same company that was developing Everquest Next was developing H1Z1. H1Z1 made it to EA but then was sold off and now it just sits there. I also backed H1Z1.
WAIT Planetside 2!!!!!!!!! I backed that game also and anyone who has played it knows its P2W. Last time i played it was over a year ago, so I dont know if they changed the P2W aspects. Now I am concerned about this whole Kickstarter campaign. I am trying to remember where I heard or read that this game has already been funded before the Kickstarter was even posted. So is this Kickstarter just another money grab? Some of the Dev's come from game's that never finished. After seeing this and how the kickstarter is priced just for alpha and beta access, I cannot push myself to even pledge anymore..
Now with all that being said, it doesn't mean this game will flop or that the Dev's are bad people. I just wanted to put out there what information I had about the Dev's and thier experience on games I had experience with.

Comments

  • This studio has employees that worked for some of those games you mentioned.

    With that said, I think the purpose of name dropping those games was to give you insight on the talent behind the creation of the game. Not necessarily the management model behind the game.
  • I'm going to quote, or rather cross-post, a Reddit post of mine since I believe it addresses a lot of your concerns here.

    I think most concerns regarding Kickstarter funding originate out of concern for the development of the game itself and its underlying corporate structure and its philosophical approach to games - not so much specific features. This early into the process all of that is still open for debate and change - and the community's, your, input!

    The amount of Kickstarter games that ended up as vaporware or officially declared dead despite being successfully funded may make you understandably skeptical. Games like The Stomping Land, Clang, or H-Hour and Code Hero. They are all either dead or lost in time and space. And in Addition to these Kickstarter Horror stories we only last year went through the funeral of the long awaited Everquest: Next. So yes, you may be rather pessimistic… but there are reasons why I believe that Ashes of Creation will not meet a similar fate.

    You see, when you look at most failed Kickstarter games, they were mere concepts, ideas envisioned by often times amateurs und newcomers – without a lot or sometimes any experience in the industry. What happens is that they not only lack contacts to establish a proper production team, they also often have no experience whatsoever in managing a budget or a company. A video game is after all a commercial product. A commercial product produced by business. If you don’t know how to do business, you don’t know how to do a video game. You may have a great concept and amazing ideas, but you will never bring them to fruition. You cannot be all passion, and no business.

    And then you have the complete opposite in the case of Everquest: Next. You have an established team working on the project, you got the resources, the experience, the expertise – BUT – you also have a behemoth of a corporation like Sony that ultimately calls the shots. It is good to know how to do business – but when you have Corporate overlords who care only about the business side, you can easily kill a game by either cancelling it because of lacking commercial prospects, or by trying to make it as commercially profitable as possible. Many would argue that this is, for example, what happened during the period in which Blizzard Entertainment was owned by Vivendi. So you can also not be all business, and no passion.

    And this is where I see Intrepid Studios hitting exactly the right balance. The game and with it the entire company is a brainchild of Steven Sharif. I obviously don’t know him personally, but there is quite some information available online when you can look at the interviews he gave – with mmorpg.com for example. Sharif seems to be neither a big suit & cigar type of business guy, nor is he a pie-eyed nerd who doesn’t know what he’s doing. He’s a young guy, who loves gaming, and who very apparently knows how to do business. His background is in business and he has personally financed the entire project up to this point by himself. If someone can finance the salary of a team of 13 people for about a year – you know that this guy had some success. He stated on Discord that Ashes is actually financed on the basis of his own financial commitment already – the Kickstarter is for whatever can be put on top of that. The more successful the campaign will be, the more financial means the company will have to make the game even more epic – certainly – but it is good to know that the game is financially secured already. This also means that the company is not beholden to investors or publisher demands.

    And if you are worried that this means Ashes of Creation is just another business venture for him, I recommend checking into the guys work on Ashes so far. He’s obviously very passionate about the game and engaged in it from every imaginable angle – the entire game fundamentally is his idea after all. And the best part is that this team of 13 people I mentioned a second ago, has all kinds of industry veterans among its ranks – people from Daybreak like Jason Crawford and Michael Bacon, or David Thornfield who worked on games like Call of Duty Black Ops and Gears of War 3. They know exactly what they are doing.

    Does all of that mean that the game will definitely be all we envision it will be? No – but that guarantee can never be given. The MMO genre needs fresh blood, and as far as I can see Ashes of Creation is the best bet we have for that.

    I will just add one thing to the concern you raise about the Kickstarter being a "money-grab": For a project on this scale, you can never have too much funding. Every extra dollar will add more possibilities for hiring people to conceptualize, develop, polish, and text content. Also keep in mind that this is an MMO - it is a continuous project that whose development will be ongoing. It will thus have significant running costs. Any extra money the Kickstarter raises can be invested in these later on as well. So no - it is not a money grab - it's both an insurance and a resource pool to draw from either now or later.
  • It's 2017 people know how to write so other can read yet for some odd reason people still makes wall of text.
  • [quote quote=13497]I’m going to quote, or rather cross-post, a Reddit post of mine since I believe it addresses a lot of your concerns here.

    I think most concerns regarding Kickstarter funding originate out of concern for the development of the game itself and its underlying corporate structure and its philosophical approach to games – not so much specific features. This early into the process all of that is still open for debate and change – and the community’s, your, input!

    The amount of Kickstarter games that ended up as vaporware or officially declared dead despite being successfully funded may make you understandably skeptical. Games like The Stomping Land, Clang, or H-Hour and Code Hero. They are all either dead or lost in time and space. And in Addition to these Kickstarter Horror stories we only last year went through the funeral of the long awaited Everquest: Next. So yes, you may be rather pessimistic… but there are reasons why I believe that Ashes of Creation will not meet a similar fate.

    You see, when you look at most failed Kickstarter games, they were mere concepts, ideas envisioned by often times amateurs und newcomers – without a lot or sometimes any experience in the industry. What happens is that they not only lack contacts to establish a proper production team, they also often have no experience whatsoever in managing a budget or a company. A video game is after all a commercial product. A commercial product produced by business. If you don’t know how to do business, you don’t know how to do a video game. You may have a great concept and amazing ideas, but you will never bring them to fruition. You cannot be all passion, and no business.

    And then you have the complete opposite in the case of Everquest: Next. You have an established team working on the project, you got the resources, the experience, the expertise – BUT – you also have a behemoth of a corporation like Sony that ultimately calls the shots. It is good to know how to do business – but when you have Corporate overlords who care only about the business side, you can easily kill a game by either cancelling it because of lacking commercial prospects, or by trying to make it as commercially profitable as possible. Many would argue that this is, for example, what happened during the period in which Blizzard Entertainment was owned by Vivendi. So you can also not be all business, and no passion.

    And this is where I see Intrepid Studios hitting exactly the right balance. The game and with it the entire company is a brainchild of Steven Sharif. I obviously don’t know him personally, but there is quite some information available online when you can look at the interviews he gave – with mmorpg.com for example. Sharif seems to be neither a big suit & cigar type of business guy, nor is he a pie-eyed nerd who doesn’t know what he’s doing. He’s a young guy, who loves gaming, and who very apparently knows how to do business. His background is in business and he has personally financed the entire project up to this point by himself. If someone can finance the salary of a team of 13 people for about a year – you know that this guy had some success. He stated on Discord that Ashes is actually financed on the basis of his own financial commitment already – the Kickstarter is for whatever can be put on top of that. The more successful the campaign will be, the more financial means the company will have to make the game even more epic – certainly – but it is good to know that the game is financially secured already. This also means that the company is not beholden to investors or publisher demands.

    And if you are worried that this means Ashes of Creation is just another business venture for him, I recommend checking into the guys work on Ashes so far. He’s obviously very passionate about the game and engaged in it from every imaginable angle – the entire game fundamentally is his idea after all. And the best part is that this team of 13 people I mentioned a second ago, has all kinds of industry veterans among its ranks – people from Daybreak like Jason Crawford and Michael Bacon, or David Thornfield who worked on games like Call of Duty Black Ops and Gears of War 3. They know exactly what they are doing.

    Does all of that mean that the game will definitely be all we envision it will be? No – but that guarantee can never be given. The MMO genre needs fresh blood, and as far as I can see Ashes of Creation is the best bet we have for that.

    I will just add one thing to the concern you raise about the Kickstarter being a “money-grab”: For a project on this scale, you can never have too much funding. Every extra dollar will add more possibilities for hiring people to conceptualize, develop, polish, and text content. Also keep in mind that this is an MMO – it is a continuous project that whose development will be ongoing. It will thus have significant running costs. Any extra money the Kickstarter raises can be invested in these later on as well. So no – it is not a money grab – it’s both an insurance and a resource pool to draw from either now or later.

    [/quote]

    Man you type like superfast. Post was only up for like 45 sec. I agree with everything you say. This game can be everything the Dev's say it's going to be. Also the Dev's that are working on this game may or may not have been in the loop of the decisions that brought Everyquest Next to a halt. But when people have a bad experience with games like Everquest Next and then they run into a situation like I am with AoC and the Dev's, I feel like the Dev's should know what kind of stench they are bringing with them from those previous games and act accordingly. I feel like the kickstarter packages don't reflect that. $400+ for alpha access? My understanding of Alpha Access is for Dev's to get feedback on the game and asking $400+ for testers feels like a money grab. They know people want to play the game as soon as possible and that's why they put Alpha Access and Beta Access at different prices. If they want us to have faith in them then anyone who backs the game should have beta or alpha access. They know what they are doing to get more money out of people and that feels like a money grab.
  • I backed Camelot Unchained and Crowfall and here we are 4 years later with not much more than a tech alpha.

    Why would I pledge when a private investor has already assumed the risk? Every non-AAA game already releases in early access anyways, so if they need more money later why not just do that?

    This KS feels like a pre-order pushing marketing campaign more than funding a niche idea that investors won't touch, or to be free from corporate overlords. It seems like the reason companies go to KS instead of founders packs is to rope in whales who will spend a lot more than the usual 150 top pack.
  • Sounds like you have a history of backing bad games. Do us a favor and please don't back this one =)
  • [quote quote=13516]
    Man you type like superfast. Post was only up for like 45 sec. I agree with everything you say. This game can be everything the Dev’s say it’s going to be. Also the Dev’s that are working on this game may or may not have been in the loop of the decisions that brought Everyquest Next to a halt. But when people have a bad experience with games like Everquest Next and then they run into a situation like I am with AoC and the Dev’s, I feel like the Dev’s should know what kind of stench they are bringing with them from those previous games and act accordingly. I feel like the kickstarter packages don’t reflect that. $400+ for alpha access? My understanding of Alpha Access is for Dev’s to get feedback on the game and asking $400+ for testers feels like a money grab. They know people want to play the game as soon as possible and that’s why they put Alpha Access and Beta Access at different prices. If they want us to have faith in them then anyone who backs the game should have beta or alpha access. They know what they are doing to get more money out of people and that feels like a money grab.
    [/quote]

    Most of it is as I said cross-posted - unfortunately I'm no Lucky Luke with the keyboard.

    I understand your concerns, especially if you have had negative personal experiences with supporting or getting invested in other ways into games, that then ended up not coming to life. I would offer you a different approach to understanding their differentiation between alpha and beta access.

    First of all, I would caution you to see you supporting the Kickstarter with $400, or any amount for that matter, as you "purchasing" alpha access or any of the other perks. You are supporting a game and are given certain benefits in return - you are not actually entering a purchase agreement - but that aside.

    The reason why alpha and beta access may be differentiated is that you are giving people a glimpse into an unfinished work of art. A lot of what a computer game, or any creative and artistic project, represents is deeply personal to the people who create it. In addition to that, having access to an unfinished, unpolished, most likely buggy and breakable game gives you as the one having access quite some power over creating a negative perception of the game. As such you have both a financial, marketing incentive, as well as a personal, emotional incentive to filter out the people you put into a position in which they may damage or hurt you or your product. And a good way to do so is by creating a purchasing threshold that keeps out the people not committed or open enough to accept these "costs".

    I'm not saying that this is the reason or the applicable explanation for their Kickstarter Tier decisions, but I'd say it is as much a viable one as the commercial/financial interest you are proposing.
  • [quote quote=13522]I backed Camelot Unchained and Crowfall and here we are 4 years later with not much more than a tech alpha.

    Why would I pledge when a private investor has already assumed the risk? Every non-AAA game already releases in early access anyways, so if they need more money later why not just do that?

    This KS feel like a pre-order pushing marketing campaign more than funding a niche idea that investors won’t touch.

    [/quote]

    I don't know about it being a pre-order campaign. It feels like they have hit a stage in development where they either dont have the experience or money to pay for the experience to continue. So they start a Kickstarter and throw out high priced Beta and Alpha Access knowing thats what people REALLY want. Alpha Access is still a year-ish away.
  • There will be some who invest in the kickstarter, up to the beta. But, with the cost, there will be many more who would have invested if the cost wasn't so high. This is disappointing. :(
  • [quote quote=13531]<blockquote>
    <div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/kickstarter-rant/#post-13516" rel="nofollow">Taz45103 wrote:</a></div>
    Man you type like superfast. Post was only up for like 45 sec. I agree with everything you say. This game can be everything the Dev’s say it’s going to be. Also the Dev’s that are working on this game may or may not have been in the loop of the decisions that brought Everyquest Next to a halt. But when people have a bad experience with games like Everquest Next and then they run into a situation like I am with AoC and the Dev’s, I feel like the Dev’s should know what kind of stench they are bringing with them from those previous games and act accordingly. I feel like the kickstarter packages don’t reflect that. $400+ for alpha access? My understanding of Alpha Access is for Dev’s to get feedback on the game and asking $400+ for testers feels like a money grab. They know people want to play the game as soon as possible and that’s why they put Alpha Access and Beta Access at different prices. If they want us to have faith in them then anyone who backs the game should have beta or alpha access. They know what they are doing to get more money out of people and that feels like a money grab.

    </blockquote>
    Most of it is as I said cross-posted – unfortunately I’m no Lucky Luke with the keyboard.

    I understand your concerns, especially if you have had negative personal experiences with supporting or getting invested in other ways into games, that then ended up not coming to life. I would offer you a different approach to understanding their differentiation between alpha and beta access.

    First of all, I would caution you to see you supporting the Kickstarter with $400, or any amount for that matter, as you “purchasing” alpha access or any of the other perks. You are supporting a game and are given certain benefits in return – you are not actually entering a purchase agreement – but that aside.

    The reason why alpha and beta access may be differentiated is that you are giving people a glimpse into an unfinished work of art. A lot of what a computer game, or any creative and artistic project, represents is deeply personal to the people who create it. In addition to that, having access to an unfinished, unpolished, most likely buggy and breakable game gives you as the one having access quite some power over creating a negative perception of the game. As such you have both a financial, marketing incentive, as well as a personal, emotional incentive to filter out the people you put into a position in which they may damage or hurt you or your product. And a good way to do so is by creating a purchasing threshold that keeps out the people not committed or open enough to accept these “costs”.

    I’m not saying that this is the reason or the applicable explanation for their Kickstarter Tier decisions, but I’d say it is as much a viable one as the commercial/financial interest you are proposing.

    [/quote]

    Ok, but that is not what Alpha and Beta Access is for. Even with the change over the past few years with Early Access being introduced. Alpha and Beta Access has always been about testing and feedback. The Dev's know people want to play the game as soon as possible, so they setup a kickstarter with different tiers of Access. If you look at the kickstarter so far, they have sold more packages that include Alpha access than any other package. It's smart and they know what they are doing but it feels wrong to me.
  • I have a theory regarding the high cost of admittance to the Alpha stages, which is to dissuade people who aren't serious about the game to back it. There are a lot of people around who want access to Alpha stages purely for the bragging rights to say they did it, when they have no real intention of actually testing the game and providing feedback to the devs. By having the cost of the Alpha packages quite high, I'm better Steven is hoping to avoid those types of people and only have players in the community who are serious about the game.
  • [quote quote=13551]I have a theory regarding the high cost of admittance to the Alpha stages, which is to dissuade people who aren’t serious about the game to back it. There are a lot of people around who want access to Alpha stages purely for the bragging rights to say they did it, when they have no real intention of actually testing the game and providing feedback to the devs. By having the cost of the Alpha packages quite high, I’m better Steven is hoping to avoid those types of people and only have players in the community who are serious about the game.

    [/quote]

    You are 100% wrong here. The studio never cares about avoiding the "ones" who will not provide feedback. It is a cash grab strategy - put the price high and hype people about it. Then when they experience it, even if its crap they will say its good and just "still in alpha" because they paid a lot to have it. You people never learn..
  • [quote quote=13551]I have a theory regarding the high cost of admittance to the Alpha stages, which is to dissuade people who aren’t serious about the game to back it. There are a lot of people around who want access to Alpha stages purely for the bragging rights to say they did it, when they have no real intention of actually testing the game and providing feedback to the devs. By having the cost of the Alpha packages quite high, I’m better Steven is hoping to avoid those types of people and only have players in the community who are serious about the game.

    [/quote]

    Possible, but I think it's pretty easy to tell what troll feedback is. The Dev's may want to have a community of dedicated and passionate people but when it come's to the bottom line, the game has to make money. The way the kickstarter is setup and because of the stench of previous games they have worked on, make's me not want to trust them.
  • [quote quote=13555]<blockquote>
    <div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/kickstarter-rant/#post-13551" rel="nofollow">midnight-shadow wrote:</a></div>
    I have a theory regarding the high cost of admittance to the Alpha stages, which is to dissuade people who aren’t serious about the game to back it. There are a lot of people around who want access to Alpha stages purely for the bragging rights to say they did it, when they have no real intention of actually testing the game and providing feedback to the devs. By having the cost of the Alpha packages quite high, I’m better Steven is hoping to avoid those types of people and only have players in the community who are serious about the game.

    </blockquote>
    You are 100% wrong here. The studio never cares about avoiding the “ones” who will not provide feedback. It is a cash grab strategy – put the price high and hype people about it. Then when they experience it, even if its crap they will say its good and just “still in alpha” because they paid a lot to have it. You people never learn..

    [/quote]


    You nailed it on the head.
    That's why they have the most expensive name reservations I've seen (should be included in lowest tier, which should be $30-40)..
    $5000 in game mansion...
    Lifetime sub costs twice as much as other sub games...

    This KS shows where their mind and heart is - money. Therefore, I will not give it to them until the game is out and I've seen extensive reviews.
  • [quote quote=13559]<blockquote>
    <div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/kickstarter-rant/#post-13551" rel="nofollow">midnight-shadow wrote:</a></div>
    I have a theory regarding the high cost of admittance to the Alpha stages, which is to dissuade people who aren’t serious about the game to back it. There are a lot of people around who want access to Alpha stages purely for the bragging rights to say they did it, when they have no real intention of actually testing the game and providing feedback to the devs. By having the cost of the Alpha packages quite high, I’m better Steven is hoping to avoid those types of people and only have players in the community who are serious about the game.

    </blockquote>
    Possible, but I think it’s pretty easy to tell what troll feedback is. The Dev’s may want to have a community of dedicated and passionate people but when it come’s to the bottom line, the game has to make money. The way the kickstarter is setup and because of the stench of previous games they have worked on, make’s me not want to trust them.

    [/quote]

    It's wholeheartedly unrelated though, those games and the situation this one is currently in. It's not full funding from start point or anything like that. It seemed more attributed to prodding at the budget to make more with community backing and allowing for some perks to go out. I mean, by no means are the perks so far fetched on one end rather the other.
  • [quote quote=13555]<blockquote>
    <div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/kickstarter-rant/#post-13551" rel="nofollow">midnight-shadow wrote:</a></div>
    I have a theory regarding the high cost of admittance to the Alpha stages, which is to dissuade people who aren’t serious about the game to back it. There are a lot of people around who want access to Alpha stages purely for the bragging rights to say they did it, when they have no real intention of actually testing the game and providing feedback to the devs. By having the cost of the Alpha packages quite high, I’m better Steven is hoping to avoid those types of people and only have players in the community who are serious about the game.

    </blockquote>
    You are 100% wrong here. The studio never cares about avoiding the “ones” who will not provide feedback. It is a cash grab strategy – put the price high and hype people about it. Then when they experience it, even if its crap they will say its good and just “still in alpha” because they paid a lot to have it. You people never learn..

    [/quote]

    I agree. that is what a Kickstarter is for. But the thing is the Dev's have alot of experience with recent game's being released and how ALOT of game's never get released or stay in Early Access for Years. But they still choose to go with the same model as previous games and this makes me not trust them.
  • [quote quote=13555]<blockquote>
    <div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/kickstarter-rant/#post-13551" rel="nofollow">midnight-shadow wrote:</a></div>
    I have a theory regarding the high cost of admittance to the Alpha stages, which is to dissuade people who aren’t serious about the game to back it. There are a lot of people around who want access to Alpha stages purely for the bragging rights to say they did it, when they have no real intention of actually testing the game and providing feedback to the devs. By having the cost of the Alpha packages quite high, I’m better Steven is hoping to avoid those types of people and only have players in the community who are serious about the game.

    </blockquote>
    You are 100% wrong here. The studio never cares about avoiding the “ones” who will not provide feedback. It is a cash grab strategy – put the price high and hype people about it. Then when they experience it, even if its crap they will say its good and just “still in alpha” because they paid a lot to have it. You people never learn..

    [/quote]

    I'm sorry, I didn't realise you had telepathic abilities able to read the minds of the Devs and unveil their evil schemes. You really don't understand what an Alpha test is for do you? Anyone who goes into an Alpha or a Beta test and says "this game sucks, it's completely broken" doesn't understand the purpose of an Alpha or Beta test. IF IT WASN'T BROKEN IT WOULD BE FULLY RELEASED!!!

    GOOD GOD people are stupid.
  • There is very little correlation between amount paid vs. good tester.

    In fact people who pay hundreds or thousands for access tend to feel extremely entitled their vision of a 'good' game and get extremely angry when the direction does not go in the way they prefer.

    Additionally when the pool of testers is limited to a few hundred whales, the actual participation will be very low especially if the game is at an unfun stage.

    Whaling is actually a terrible strategy for building a mass appeal product with longevity. Its amazing for generating short term capital.
  • [quote quote=13562]<blockquote>
    <div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/kickstarter-rant/#post-13559" rel="nofollow">Taz45103 wrote:</a></div>
    <blockquote>
    <div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/kickstarter-rant/#post-13551" rel="nofollow">midnight-shadow wrote:</a></div>
    I have a theory regarding the high cost of admittance to the Alpha stages, which is to dissuade people who aren’t serious about the game to back it. There are a lot of people around who want access to Alpha stages purely for the bragging rights to say they did it, when they have no real intention of actually testing the game and providing feedback to the devs. By having the cost of the Alpha packages quite high, I’m better Steven is hoping to avoid those types of people and only have players in the community who are serious about the game.

    </blockquote>
    Possible, but I think it’s pretty easy to tell what troll feedback is. The Dev’s may want to have a community of dedicated and passionate people but when it come’s to the bottom line, the game has to make money. The way the kickstarter is setup and because of the stench of previous games they have worked on, make’s me not want to trust them.

    </blockquote>
    It’s wholeheartedly unrelated though, those games and the situation this one is currently in. It’s not full funding from start point or anything like that. It seemed more attributed to prodding at the budget to make more with community backing and allowing for some perks to go out. I mean, by no means are the perks so far fetched on one end rather the other.

    [/quote]

    The thing is, this game was full funded by the creator. He funded the game with his own money up until this point. Kickstarter is part of the process to get your game funded. Obviously the Dev's have hit the stage where they can no longer afford to develop the game on thier own. Which all this is fine right now. What I have a problem with is the design of thier Kickstarter. They know people want the earliest access to the game and people will pay $400 for it. What happens if this kickstarter isnt enough? The Alpha access is still 1 year away. They have alot to do. Thier previous experience is mostly on game's that are P2W, never released, or released with only a little bit off success. Except Everquest. that game was awesome but that was 10+ years ago.
  • [quote quote=13573]
    The thing is, this game was full funded by the creator. He funded the game with his own money up until this point. Kickstarter is part of the process to get your game funded. Obviously the Dev’s have hit the stage where they can no longer afford to develop the game on thier own. Which all this is fine right now. What I have a problem with is the design of thier Kickstarter. They know people want the earliest access to the game and people will pay $400 for it. What happens if this kickstarter isnt enough? The Alpha access is still 1 year away. They have alot to do. Thier previous experience is mostly on game’s that are P2W, never released, or released with only a little bit off success. Except Everquest. that game was awesome but that was 10+ years ago.
    [/quote]

    Please double check your information before you type. If you bothered to watch the kickstarter video, Steven said (and I quote):

    "We have enough self-funding to create a core viable product in Ashes of Creation"
    and
    "The reason we're here on kickstarter is because we want to expand the scope of our project, we want to make it bigger and better"

    In other words, the money he has put into it so far is enough to release the game in its basic form, and the kickstarter is there to allow more features and better graphics to be added that wouldn't have been possible without the kickstarter. Now, it's up to you whether you believe him or not, but so far he has been the most open and honest developer I have encountered and he has given us no reason to doubt him.
  • Double check what information?? Your quote is saying exactly what i am saying, just in a business kind of way..
  • [quote quote=13603]Double check what information?? Your quote is saying exactly what i am saying, just in a business kind of way..

    [/quote]

    Sigh, I can't believe I'm doing this. You said:

    "Obviously the Dev’s have hit the stage where they can no longer afford to develop the game on thier own."

    Which clearly isn't the case. They don't need the kickstarter money to release the game. The kickstarter is there to put in additional features that weren't in the original budget for the game.
  • [quote quote=13610]<blockquote>
    <div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/kickstarter-rant/page/2/#post-13603" rel="nofollow">Taz45103 wrote:</a></div>
    Double check what information?? Your quote is saying exactly what i am saying, just in a business kind of way..

    </blockquote>
    Sigh, I can’t believe I’m doing this. You said:

    “Obviously the Dev’s have hit the stage where they can no longer afford to develop the game on thier own.”

    Which clearly isn’t the case. They don’t need the kickstarter money to release the game. The kickstarter is there to put in additional features that weren’t in the original budget for the game.

    [/quote]

    Im sorry but if you think they have a completed game RIGHT now, you are wrong.
  • [quote quote=13616]<blockquote>
    <div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/kickstarter-rant/page/2/#post-13610" rel="nofollow">midnight-shadow wrote:</a></div>
    <blockquote>
    <div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/kickstarter-rant/page/2/#post-13603" rel="nofollow">Taz45103 wrote:</a></div>
    Double check what information?? Your quote is saying exactly what i am saying, just in a business kind of way..

    </blockquote>
    Sigh, I can’t believe I’m doing this. You said:

    “Obviously the Dev’s have hit the stage where they can no longer afford to develop the game on thier own.”

    Which clearly isn’t the case. They don’t need the kickstarter money to release the game. The kickstarter is there to put in additional features that weren’t in the original budget for the game.

    </blockquote>
    Im sorry but if you think they have a completed game RIGHT now, you are wrong.

    [/quote]

    Did I say that? Did I ever in a million years say that the game was ready for release? I said the game was FUNDED up to the release. In other words, even without the kickstarter they have enough money to release the game.

    I can't believe I'm having to explain this, to this extent.....
  • [quote quote=13532]<blockquote>
    <div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/kickstarter-rant/#post-13522" rel="nofollow">Bio_Puppet wrote:</a></div>
    I backed Camelot Unchained and Crowfall and here we are 4 years later with not much more than a tech alpha.

    Why would I pledge when a private investor has already assumed the risk? Every non-AAA game already releases in early access anyways, so if they need more money later why not just do that?

    This KS feel like a pre-order pushing marketing campaign more than funding a niche idea that investors won’t touch.

    </blockquote>
    I don’t know about it being a pre-order campaign. It feels like they have hit a stage in development where they either dont have the experience or money to pay for the experience to continue. So they start a Kickstarter and throw out high priced Beta and Alpha Access knowing thats what people REALLY want. Alpha Access is still a year-ish away.

    [/quote]

    Then you really dont know what is going on. This game has already 20 months of development. They already have a working Pre-Pre-Alpha game. Pre-Alpha will be starting within the next few months, Alpha around Dec/Jan and Beta by Summer with release Dec 2018 or so. If you just see what they already have they are a lot farther along than any other kickstarter ever. The other Kickstarters that have been out there outside of maybe Pantheon and SoTA (Which had a working shell of a game) all were just tech demos. Ashes already has a Pre-Alpha Client and setup. Some people here already have played it.

    Add to all this they already have all the funding they need to get a working game out in the next year. BUT they want to add more content so they went to kick starter to get some more money to help complete some other content. For example that content can be ships like ArcheAge or BDO have. Which is Already slated as something they want to do they just need more funding to get that in sooner rather than later.

    If you have questions ask. Dont think that this will be another failed project. They have more done prior to kickstarter than any other MMORPG that went to Kickstarter.
  • You've been hurt by Kickstarters. Most of us have. If we can't afford to take such risks with our disposable income allowance for entertainment, then Kickstarters shouldn't be a temptation for us. The only thing that you will miss out on is playing before opening day... As promised, I don't see any P2W in the packages on offer. Bravo! The game will be just as good on opening day if you don't get an alpha or beta seat. :)
    Take a look at where the KS already is. They aren't going to have any trouble getting where they need to get. This is a phenominal start without even resorting to mass Email spams to remind everyone that the KS has started. A proper "cash-grabber" would never neglect email spam.
    We won't know until much later whether they can deliver on everything that they want too, but they already have so much more DONE than most KS dreamers do at this point. They have more done NOW than many developers call Alpha phase 1.
    These guys seem legit. They seem honest and they seem DRIVEN to achieve excellence in a woefully under fulfilled market.
    If you think I am a paid spokesman, well you are dead wrong. This game will likely KILL my favorite game and I don't like that but I have to say they are doing things better.
  • Let's not forget they will also refund all the backers in the event the game never launches. The $400 level also comes with lifetime so it's not just access to the testing. IMO, many of the people who spent the higher amounts truly do want to contribute to helping make this game, the game they will be playing for many years. My biggest fear is that it won't live up to the tremendous hype already surrounding it.
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