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Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Hybrid Combat Solution
ArchivedUser
Guest
So many of us have converted over to the action combat style of gameplay and once we have tasted it, playing regular tab target MMOs just simply don't cut the mustard anymore.
BUT... I understand the need for the tab target mechanic in raids and dungeons where you need to selectively heal, buff or debuff specific targets.
One game that has already combined tab targetting with action combat that was actually pretty good was Elder Scrolls Online.
Basically it was mostly action combat where whatever your reticle was on was your target. It had auto aiming but you could still miss if you were off target enough) but when you wanted to target a specific target you could hit tab and it would "Focus" a target which would be the target closest to you. If you hit tab again it would look at the next closest target and so on. You could also hold down a modifier key (shift in my setup) to "Lock On" to a target. You could let go of shift to switch targets via looking or you could hit tab to switch targets quickly while still locked on.
I feel if you combined this system with the fluid key combo based action combat system of BDO and you'd have a real winner that would satisfy a large demographic of ppl. You'd still have SOME skills that were hot key based just like BDO and ESO had but those would be fairly few and far between and should fit on a single shortcut/hotbar. (10 skill slots is more than enough)
Another thing I liked is that BDO had separate icons for summoning mounts and pets which helps free up hotbar space. I feel that having health and mana potions should also have a separate icons/slots from the main skill bar as well.
Anyway what do you guys think of that solution?
BUT... I understand the need for the tab target mechanic in raids and dungeons where you need to selectively heal, buff or debuff specific targets.
One game that has already combined tab targetting with action combat that was actually pretty good was Elder Scrolls Online.
Basically it was mostly action combat where whatever your reticle was on was your target. It had auto aiming but you could still miss if you were off target enough) but when you wanted to target a specific target you could hit tab and it would "Focus" a target which would be the target closest to you. If you hit tab again it would look at the next closest target and so on. You could also hold down a modifier key (shift in my setup) to "Lock On" to a target. You could let go of shift to switch targets via looking or you could hit tab to switch targets quickly while still locked on.
I feel if you combined this system with the fluid key combo based action combat system of BDO and you'd have a real winner that would satisfy a large demographic of ppl. You'd still have SOME skills that were hot key based just like BDO and ESO had but those would be fairly few and far between and should fit on a single shortcut/hotbar. (10 skill slots is more than enough)
Another thing I liked is that BDO had separate icons for summoning mounts and pets which helps free up hotbar space. I feel that having health and mana potions should also have a separate icons/slots from the main skill bar as well.
Anyway what do you guys think of that solution?
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Comments
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[quote quote=13829]I think a combined and versatile system is best. If you don’t like tab-target, you don’t have to use it. If the hotbar is designed with full customization in mind, there should be no need for specific shortcuts as the player can determine what is where. I hope that is what they have in mind.
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Wouldn't the above solution meet your tab targeting needs? Your default target is what your are looking at via auto aim. you hit Tab to switch to the next nearest target (your body would turn to face that target). If you fired a skill at that very moment it would hit the new target you just tabbed to. If however the target moved you would miss.
However if you want to stay "locked on" to that target you hold down the shift key which would allow you to circle around the target if you wanted . In this locked on state you simply hit tab and you would target the next opponent OR let go of shift and simply look at your next target.
That is how ESO worked. As for firing off skills or attacks I feel that the vast majority of these should be combo driven like bdo particularly for melee and most archer class attacks. There would still be skill bar attacks but they would be rare and they would be slightly more applicable to caster classes where you would need that more
What the game should get from tab targetting games is the ability to lock onto a target you want and effectively work towards attacking, buffing, debuffing or healing it. What it should get from the action combat games is the ability to react to your enemy - dodge any type of attack for example - if someone targets you from a distance, even with a lock on you, when he fires you should be able to move away from the trajectory of the projectile and not be hit - and have a consequence for your actions - if you commit to an attack you should not be able to move away from an incomming attack at the same time is the most basic example of what that means. Basically think of a somewhat balanced Dark Souls combat or even PSO2 combat.
What I really hate is the idea that aiming is somewhat part of an action combat. It is not, aiming is required in shooters and to a lesser extend for melee first person brawlers. Most action games allow you to lock on a certain enemy and the action part of it comes from the timing of actions and reactions of the players and the npcs.
Old fashioned tab targeting suits third person perspective. And has the advantage of being able to freely move the camera view point. But can be be a lazy damage soak or kite while on skill CD rotations. Also allows for skill abilities to be selectively placed in the environment freely without impacting the character or view. (superior Keyboard and mouse input)
Hybrid systems still tab lock, however more telegraphs and dodge/evade systems.
I personally find hybrid tab targeting a far more user friendly experience and engaging enough in the MMO space and less RSI inducing.
Its also an excellent status messaging UI.
Not sure if 1st person is a thing in AoC, but zoom almost certainly will be.
I also found ESO combat engaging in some aspects, maybe even a large improvement over some to be fair, but still heavily flawed.
1. I get the concept of animation cancelling. But the problems with it are many:
a. Because the costing systems are often cost/hit rather than cost/dps it becomes an exploit to do the same damage in less time at the same cost. Those with the biggest burst rotation always win because the opponent must always die first in a hit for hit brawl.
b. There is no risk reward element. You chose the most powerful time consuming attack, because you were stupid enough to over commit and then demand a get out clause in the combat system. Nay, if you over commit, you should be punished for being stupid and wreckless. As long as the game design provide fast weak attacks and slow strong attacks, there is no need for cancelling.
c. The combat times are reduced so much, all of the feedback information that enables the opponent to defend is hidden or does not provide enough time to respond.
d. This time reduction also allows chaining attacks into one shot combos that also allow one shot like effects. Even if not literally a one shot kill...it may as well be.
As for tab targetting, from a range perspective, there is NO other way to single out one target within a crowd of targets. Whether you SHOULD be able to single out a target in a crowd is a the point to argue. Would it take away from combat if you actually had to reposition your self to ensure a heal or a hit ? Or would it force meaning onto the drama of combat, where being in the right place at the right time becomes critical to yours and your enemies chances of survival.
After all...do we tab target through walls, ceiling, doors ?
Should we be able to heal enemies and hit friends by mistake and be forced to actually think about every single attack ?