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Is the subscription method finalized?

I really want to play this game but i don't really want a subscription method since i don't play 24/7 so i might just waste my money. Is it possible for you guys to put it on steam for like let's say 60 bucks?

Comments

  • Pretty sure the sub is not going away anytime soon or the people who pledged $400+ for the lifetime sub would be pretty upset about paying for a lifetime sub of a free game.......plus $60 is only 4 months worth of game plus they would have to give steam a good chunk of that so it's pretty much not going to happen. Maybe later down the line if the game isn't doing well (like eso did) they might switch but that wont be for quite some time
  • Yep. they won't change it.
  • Oh damn 400$. I guess i'll never get to play this game then.
  • How would you make a game that keeps changing since it's affected by the community players, to free to play or one time payment?

    You simply don't since there's more progression going onto the backgrounds of Ashes of Creation than other MMORPG's.

    Also a benefit towards subscription paymethode for a game is eliminating 'mostly' the fact of "Pay to Win" advantages.
  • [quote quote=13999]Oh damn 400$. I guess i’ll never get to play this game then.

    [/quote]
    The game is not $400, just for Alpha Phase 1 and lifetime subscription and a bunch of other stuff.
  • Personally I prefer pay to play module. In the end, I generally end up spending less and receiving more.
  • [quote quote=13969]I really want to play this game but i don’t really want a subscription method since i don’t play 24/7 so i might just waste my money. Is it possible for you guys to put it on steam for like let’s say 60 bucks?[/quote]

    The concept of subscription is built into the game, the crowd-fund, everything, really heavily. It's the whole reason, after all, that this isn't a cash shop P2W title. Clearly it's very proud to be a subscription game so, no, I don't see that changing at all.

    If you can't fathom how 15hrs of gameplay is worth $15/mo -- come on, that's entertainment at a buck an hour, and cheaper if you play more than 15hrs in a month -- then maybe the game isn't for you. However, I doubt you'd play less than 15 hrs!
  • Agreed with @Blackadder, $15 a month is nothing when you consider the amount of time your average person spends playing video games.
  • for 15$ you get a whole month of play time, a MONTH! that's 30 days. If you can get enjoyment out of even 10 of those days it's worth it.
  • I know everyone says $15 is only $1/hr but $180 (15x12) is literally 3 other full price games, some of which might be other MMO's. Most PC games are $20 to $48 (20% off $59 new games) and then there are steam sales where you get games for $5. So for 1 year of sub this game literally better be good enough to offset 6 to 9 games. That's a bit of a high bar for most people to get over. If it were $5/mo which ends up being $60, or the price of one new game a year. I think a lot of people can mentally jump that hurdle.

    Even WOW has given up on full price sub and lets people pay with in game gold. AFAIK, the only sub MMO left now is Final Fantasy and even they recently said "hey, it's free up to lvl 35" which implies to me they were losing subs and needed to bring in some fresh players.
  • [quote quote=14125]I know everyone says $15 is only $1/hr but $180 (15×12) is literally 3 other full price games, some of which might be other MMO’s. Most PC games are $20 to $48 (20% off $59 new games) and then there are steam sales where you get games for $5. So for 1 year of sub this game literally better be good enough to offset 6 to 9 games. That’s a bit of a high bar for most people to get over. If it were $5/mo which ends up being $60, or the price of one new game a year. I think a lot of people can mentally jump that hurdle.

    Even WOW has given up on full price sub and lets people pay with in game gold. AFAIK, the only sub MMO left now is Final Fantasy and even they recently said “hey, it’s free up to lvl 35” which implies to me they were losing subs and needed to bring in some fresh players.

    [/quote]

    And how many hours do you put into those $20 games? If they are single player games usually the campaign is around 10 hours, so you are effectively paying $2 per hour for those games. If you play a sub-based mmorpg for an hour a day for a single month, you are paying $0.50. If you really want to compare value for money a sub-based mmorpg will win over single-player titles every single time.
  • Bought the witcher 3 for 15$ sale. i still enjoy it despite playing it for hundreds of hours. I like mmorpg but the subscription base is what i hate about them. i wouldn't mind paying this game for 100$ max aif it turns out to be good.
  • [quote quote=14170]And how many hours do you put into those $20 games? If they are single player games usually the campaign is around 10 hours, so you are effectively paying $2 per hour for those games. If you play a sub-based mmorpg for an hour a day for a single month, you are paying $0.50. If you really want to compare value for money a sub-based mmorpg will win over single-player titles every single time.[/quote]

    I'd be afraid to look at how many hours I spent on Terraria (probably 3 figures worth) and that game was like $5.
    Just sayin.
  • you dont have to buy the game , only the sub and you can play.
    so if you just want to try and see if you like it or not, pay 15 $ for a month and make up you're mind after.
    if you like it you stay if not move on. i say thats pretty safe.


    about the witcher.. thats a single player game. MMORPG'S bring something special you cant find in single player games, things like community and social interactions are what makes them special for me, the sub is kinda like a member-ship fee for a club(sport etc)
    thats how i see it.

    the game isnt even out and im alrdy having lots of fun hanging out in discord, forums etc.. i love it!
  • [quote quote=14184]Bought the witcher 3 for 15$ sale. i still enjoy it despite playing it for hundreds of hours. I like mmorpg but the subscription base is what i hate about them. i wouldn’t mind paying this game for 100$ max aif it turns out to be good.

    [/quote]

    MMORPGs should be a Subscription Game Period. The only way to keep servers up and consistant content being created is to have a subscription. Look at FFXIV, they come out with content every 3 to 4 months. Yea the Dungeon grind gets boring BUT you get content for your Subscription. The problem is all these AAA MMORPGS are in it for the money only so the subscription becomes lets make 60% Margins and they dont give you crap for your money. A smaller company like Intrepid are here to make a game they like to play as well as other people like to play. They do need to make a profit let's not fool ourselves thinking they dont need a profit. BUT they are not Blizzard or EA which are owned by Stockholders who expect to be more important than the customer so you get shit for your money.

    If you dont like the Subscription there are a boat load of shitty F2P B2P MMORPGs that you can play.
  • [quote quote=13969]I really want to play this game but i don’t really want a subscription method since i don’t play 24/7 so i might just waste my money. Is it possible for you guys to put it on steam for like let’s say 60 bucks?

    [/quote]

    They are not moving away from the payment model. If you are not going to play 5+ hours a week I would say you are wasting your money because this game will have slow leveling and content that take months to get to. Its not going to be designed like WOW where people get all the content done in 2 months. They are looking at leveling to take somewhere around 250+ hours. So yea not your normal WOW clone game.
  • [quote quote=14170]<blockquote>
    <div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/is-the-subscription-method-finalized/#post-14125" rel="nofollow">torsoreaper wrote:</a></div>
    I know everyone says $15 is only $1/hr but $180 (15×12) is literally 3 other full price games, some of which might be other MMO’s. Most PC games are $20 to $48 (20% off $59 new games) and then there are steam sales where you get games for $5. So for 1 year of sub this game literally better be good enough to offset 6 to 9 games. That’s a bit of a high bar for most people to get over. If it were $5/mo which ends up being $60, or the price of one new game a year. I think a lot of people can mentally jump that hurdle.

    Even WOW has given up on full price sub and lets people pay with in game gold. AFAIK, the only sub MMO left now is Final Fantasy and even they recently said “hey, it’s free up to lvl 35” which implies to me they were losing subs and needed to bring in some fresh players.

    </blockquote>
    And how many hours do you put into those $20 games? If they are single player games usually the campaign is around 10 hours, so you are effectively paying $2 per hour for those games. If you play a sub-based mmorpg for an hour a day for a single month, you are paying $0.50. If you really want to compare value for money a sub-based mmorpg will win over single-player titles every single time.

    [/quote]

    I bought Witcher 3 for $20 and put in a few hundred hours, both Titanfall games a few hundred hours, Battlefield games a few hundred hours each. I know what you're thinking "those aren't MMO's!!!!111". Well, I bought BDO for literally $5 and put in a few hundred hours. I bought GW2 for $30 and then $50 for the expansion have over a thousand hours.

    So while this game wants to be sub, you have to remember A LOT of MMO's out there are going box pricing not sub pricing so I can give you an apples to apples comparison right there. Revelation online (it's garbage but it's box pricing), Dark and Light, new GW2 expansion, ESO expansion, Pantheon, Crowfall, etc.... None of these games are going sub afaik.

    Also, please keep in mind, I'm not saying this game shouldn't go sub. I'm just saying that $15/mo is way too ambitious. Final Fantasy is $13/mo and that is a game with a strong pre-established player base, well established lore, from a AAA studio. So this indie game wants to charge 15% more and it has no pre-established player base. OK.
  • [quote quote=14259]Also, please keep in mind, I’m not saying this game shouldn’t go sub. I’m just saying that $15/mo is way too ambitious. Final Fantasy is $13/mo and that is a game with a strong pre-established player base, well established lore, from a AAA studio. So this indie game wants to charge 15% more and it has no pre-established player base. OK.[/quote]

    Yes FFXIV is doing well at $13 a month but they also are not stockholder heavy as other MMORPGS with large AAA Budgets. Also FFXIV didnt spend as much on rebuilding FFXIV than other MMORPGS spend to build their game. Also every MMORPG in the last 10 years have been 100+ Million Dollar budgets. Ashes is not going to reach more than 50 maybe 60 Million. A Subscription will work because in less than a year with 500K subs; they will make their money back. That is the key to Subscriptions. If they overspend on their development they have to go the P2W route or spend more time on making you pay more on the game in a cash shop than a subscription. You have to remember all these MMORPGs have Stockholders you talk about which are more important than customers. They expect 60% or more margins and subscriptions cannot do that.
  • [quote quote=14220]<blockquote>
    <div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/is-the-subscription-method-finalized/#post-14184" rel="nofollow">CheesusFries wrote:</a></div>
    Bought the witcher 3 for 15$ sale. i still enjoy it despite playing it for hundreds of hours. I like mmorpg but the subscription base is what i hate about them. i wouldn’t mind paying this game for 100$ max aif it turns out to be good.

    </blockquote>
    MMORPGs should be a Subscription Game Period. The only way to keep servers up and consistant content being created is to have a subscription. Look at FFXIV, they come out with content every 3 to 4 months. Yea the Dungeon grind gets boring BUT you get content for your Subscription. The problem is all these AAA MMORPGS are in it for the money only so the subscription becomes lets make 60% Margins and they dont give you crap for your money. A smaller company like Intrepid are here to make a game they like to play as well as other people like to play. They do need to make a profit let’s not fool ourselves thinking they dont need a profit. BUT they are not Blizzard or EA which are owned by Stockholders who expect to be more important than the customer so you get shit for your money.

    If you dont like the Subscription there are a boat load of shitty F2P B2P MMORPGs that you can play.

    [/quote]

    Actually, your statement about sub models is incorrect. Rift, GW2, and ESO -- to name just a few -- are buy-the-box with no subs. In these games, they sell an amazing amount of things in their cash shops, up to and including cosmetic items, that support them. They regularly release new content and, in fact, ESO has grown stronger as the years go by, rather than weaker. New content is considered another purchase, but some of these games allow you to "upgrade" with bundle packages that include all previous updates.

    In short, in this day and age, a sub model is not necessarily an indicator of a game's quality. I know there are die-hards out there who, like you, believe it is, but if you haven't played any of the above-mentioned games simply because they don't have subs, then you honestly don't really know what you're speaking of. If you have, and you just didn't like the games? That's fair. But they have proven that you can deliver quality and regular content without a sub.
  • [quote quote=14259]Also, please keep in mind, I’m not saying this game shouldn’t go sub. I’m just saying that $15/mo is way too ambitious. Final Fantasy is $13/mo and that is a game with a strong pre-established player base, well established lore, from a AAA studio. So this indie game wants to charge 15% more and it has no pre-established player base. OK.[/quote]

    The game's free to charge what it feels, (a) the market will support versus, (b) what it feels it needs to make to 'keep the lights on'. Sure, there are B2P games out there... which also have mechanics that enable them to exist, like cash shops. People generally end up paying in some form or another; some games just do a better version of hiding how it's happening or, perhaps more correctly, make people feel better about it. I've known people who freak-the-f-out if they think of a $15 fee... then go and buy $30 worth of fluff from a cash store in a single month, and genuinely don't seem to realise what they've just done...
  • I will gladly pay $15 a month for AoC.
  • ESO was utter buggy trash when it launched as a Box+ Subscription with a Preordered bonus exclusives as cash shop items and an entire playable race behind a paywal. It was the epitome of MMO shit tactics, that had to save grace with Elderscrolls fans and fall back on the F2p cash shop model, because it was never worthy of a subscription.

    GW2 is just a collectable fashion trap. so much potential but it's reliance and cosmetic items/skins and RNG gambling to self fund has been detrimental to consistent game content as a whole. Still waiting for Content promised with the current expansion released 1.5 years ago.

    Even WoW's flogged horse with make up has passed it's subscription model relevance, but players are so invested that Blizzard can just keep on milking that cash cow.

    The Subscription system is valid to games that deserve it. In saying that I Kickstatered to lifetime Sub level, I hope this contribution will go towards 2+ years of solid content and game play, and as an effect Make the initial product at launch a richer more dynamic and attractive place worthy of ongoing subscription support from new players.
  • So question for the OP... How much did you spend on lunch today? Even if you went to McDonalds and got a QuarterPounder meal thats almost $8. If I am not mistaken they are not even going to charge for the game. You get a sub, you get the game. So unlike past sub games where you not only had to buy the game for like $40, you then had to pay a monthly sub, from what I have found Intrepid is not doing that. So you dont have that initial investment.

    So if what I say is true, having say 8 hours of entertainment a month (thats playing for 2 hours a week, hell you barely logon when playing for two hours) is not worth two QuarterPounder meals from McDonalds?
  • Lol, OP, this game's target market is people who are fed up of all those F2P/B2P games.
  • I really hope they keep the subscription model. With subscription, the paying customers do get better service, and can influence the way the game is handled. WOW's subscription based and doesn't seem to have suffered. As long as we get regular content, decent servers, minimum down time, in game paid GM's all's good IMHO.
  • [quote quote=14549]<blockquote>
    <div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/is-the-subscription-method-finalized/page/2/#post-14220" rel="nofollow">Helzbelz wrote:</a></div>
    <blockquote>
    <div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/is-the-subscription-method-finalized/#post-14184" rel="nofollow">CheesusFries wrote:</a></div>
    Bought the witcher 3 for 15$ sale. i still enjoy it despite playing it for hundreds of hours. I like mmorpg but the subscription base is what i hate about them. i wouldn’t mind paying this game for 100$ max aif it turns out to be good.

    </blockquote>
    MMORPGs should be a Subscription Game Period. The only way to keep servers up and consistant content being created is to have a subscription. Look at FFXIV, they come out with content every 3 to 4 months. Yea the Dungeon grind gets boring BUT you get content for your Subscription. The problem is all these AAA MMORPGS are in it for the money only so the subscription becomes lets make 60% Margins and they dont give you crap for your money. A smaller company like Intrepid are here to make a game they like to play as well as other people like to play. They do need to make a profit let’s not fool ourselves thinking they dont need a profit. BUT they are not Blizzard or EA which are owned by Stockholders who expect to be more important than the customer so you get shit for your money.

    If you dont like the Subscription there are a boat load of shitty F2P B2P MMORPGs that you can play.

    </blockquote>
    Actually, your statement about sub models is incorrect. Rift, GW2, and ESO — to name just a few — are buy-the-box with no subs. In these games, they sell an amazing amount of things in their cash shops, up to and including cosmetic items, that support them. They regularly release new content and, in fact, ESO has grown stronger as the years go by, rather than weaker. New content is considered another purchase, but some of these games allow you to “upgrade” with bundle packages that include all previous updates.

    In short, in this day and age, a sub model is not necessarily an indicator of a game’s quality. I know there are die-hards out there who, like you, believe it is, but if you haven’t played any of the above-mentioned games simply because they don’t have subs, then you honestly don’t really know what you’re speaking of. If you have, and you just didn’t like the games? That’s fair. But they have proven that you can deliver quality and regular content without a sub.

    [/quote]

    ESO forces anyone who wants to craft to Sub because there is no way to get the extra bag space. Add to that you can either sub or pay for all the DLCs as well. Most people there also sub.

    GW2 is really a gambling fest last I checked and too is shitty.

    Rift you can buy your last raid tier for a few hundred bucks which is P2W.


    So what you posted is crap and all 3 game tried to copy WOW with several hundred dollars in investments where they are forced to spend more time nickle and dimming you because how much money was spent in development.

    No the Subscription model is the best model because for a flat fee you go and earn everything in game and do not have to spend time wasting more money on the game than a subscription which is the case with today's cash shop MMORPGS.
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