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Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Instanced Dungeons
ArchivedUser
Guest
So in the Q&A it was mentioned that there will be mostly open world dungeons with a few instanced ones. Can someone explain why Open World is better than instanced? When you get into the "end game" and want to schedule raids etc. Instanced dungeons make this process sooo much better. What am I missing?
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Please don't be concerned that instancing is out, it's totally not. We think that open world dungeons are a unique experience, an experience you can *only* get in an MMO, and unfortunately something you just don’t see too much these days. Contested fights add an element of excitement that you just can’t get from instanced dungeons. It also helps the verisimilitude and weight of the world when that dungeon is just *there*. So we want to put some focus and real effort into that experience. We’re fairly certain that we can minimize performance hits in these areas too, so it’s not something we have to shy away from.
This is a multiplayer game though, and having dungeons be contested puts some strain on our ability to make that content available to everyone, all the time. And that’s where instances help a whole lot, because you can have a huge number of groups running through any given dungeon at the same time thanks to the magic of instancing. You don’t have to wait for a repop of the dungeon, you just hit your own instance, and bam, you and your group are ready to go. This is a powerful thing on the content side, and we're not going to neglect its power.
So, we’re definitely going to have both - don’t let our strong words about open world dungeons lead you astray. We just think they’re pretty rad. We’ll definitely be balancing what’s available in the open world with instances that folks can attack on the individual, group, and raid size levels. And they’ll be important, and they’ll be awesome.
verisimilitude
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Gesundheit...
Also thanks for the reply, completely forgot about repop of dungeons. ESO did it extremely "user friendly" in their public dungeons the boss was basicly soloable, and people just stood around waiting for it all the time. If there was 10 people you needed to get lucky to get a hit in, so please none of that :)
I also would like to see the Instanced Content to require CC and Support roles like Vanilla WOW and TBC WOW instances were. If not designed like a treadmill like today's dungeons are, instances can be a very fun time. I remember spending a lot of time with my group of friends weekly in different Vanilla WOW TBC WOW Dungeons because it required Teamwork and they were plain out fun.
My Problem with Dungeons is if you play FFXIV today or WOW, its nothing but a Treadmill. Do X amount of dungeons a week to get your max cap of stones a week so you can buy gear. I want Drops in Dungeons to be powerful but situationally powerful and I dont care that stuff is not balanced, RPGs should never be about being balanced. Its about strengths and weaknesses, I loved WOW when mages didnt use Fire on Ragarnos, or a Commando in Star Wars got our asses handed to us by a bounty hunter who was wearing fire resistant armor.
<div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/instanced-dungeons/#post-1542" rel="nofollow">Jeffrey wrote:</a></div>
verisimilitude
</blockquote>
Gesundheit…
Also thanks for the reply, completely forgot about repop of dungeons. ESO did it extremely “user friendly” in their public dungeons the boss was basicly soloable, and people just stood around waiting for it all the time. If there was 10 people you needed to get lucky to get a hit in, so please none of that <img alt="?" src="https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/2.2.1/svg/1f642.svg" />
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The same was done in SWG and UO. In UO I use to run the shadow wrym lair anytime on wanted to with my bard. If someone was there I would call in my friends and drove that guy out because he couldnt get a kill. That is the bad side of making everything non-instanced. I think with a sandbox game you can do instances and non-instanced dungeons BUT make instances more of a focus on group content, story telling and team work vs the loot treadmill grind of today's MMOs. If you made instances where they would give you a ton more EXP than soloing BUT had no LFD tool AND it required CC, and smaller group pulls and 1 hour to 90 minute time investments people would do these fewer times but still would put aside times with friends to do this content. Pugs will happen BUT will happen naturally and not forced through push button to join automated group finder, wait X minutes, Pop go run content 15 minutes repeat.
The way I would put it is in SWG we had these open world bases that you can hack and blow up just like player run bases. Problem is 50 people would be in grinding all the mobs all the time and if you got a group of the certain classes you needed to hack the terminals people would just need to run in and click the terminal. There was no fun doing it because you would go in untouched. Now if this was phased where our group would go in and no other players were around it would add challenge and get us good EXP.
So, we’re definitely going to have both – don’t let our strong words about open world dungeons lead you astray. We just think they’re pretty rad. We’ll definitely be balancing what’s available in the open world with instances that folks can attack on the individual, group, and raid size levels. And they’ll be important, and they’ll be awesome.
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That is GREAT to hear! Thanks!
<blockquote>open world dungeons are a unique experience, an experience you can *only* get in an MMO, and unfortunately something you just don’t see too much these days. Contested fights add an element of excitement that you just can’t get from instanced dungeons. It also helps the verisimilitude and weight of the world when that dungeon is just *there*. </blockquote>
I haven't seen anything like this in ages.
Pros:
It is exciting. Some boss mob spawns. The guild scout yells, you all rush to assemble.
Its one hell of a unique fight and you get awesome loot.
There's guild status attached to killing it. "Did you hear that 'guild name' just killed 'boss mob 01' ?" Plus of course there might be a title which you can display alongside your own name. Aalla Destroyer of boss mob 01.
Its a challenge because unlike instanced dungeons its not something you can rehearse until you get it right.
Cons:
You do need someone watching out for these mobs.
Some other guild has got there first and you miss out.
Kill stealing.
A good example was in EQ2. Before a boss mob could spawn the players had to build a portal. In our case the guild built the portal and then another guild got the first hit and killed the boss. All our hard work was for nothing. The devs need to think very carefully about how to address this problem which of course never occurs in instanced zones.
I've seen this before, where a large guild will hold an area for hours or even days on end, spamming the content for loot and making sure no one else gets a shot, especially early on when guilds find it essential to outfit their members with gear first and foremost, insuring they get first crack at "end-game" content, and the "obligatory" status of "XYZ dungeon" pioneers. All of this sounds okay and exciting from a developer standpoint because you're looking at it through God-goggles, giggling like school girls at the prospect of the puny humans going bonkers over a little loot. Like thiefsrevenge has stated, in practice, it can be difficult to make checks and balances to alleviate such behavior if in fact, that is even something you care to worry about.
This might be the way to go, make sure you can only find the dungeons by accident, and once its cleared, it no longer populates or even changes Environment. Not only would this promote exploring (which with the current system will hardly occur) it would also make it rare for a guild to be camping this dungeon. IMO it would also make the dungeon more rewarding, because not only do you have to beat it, you'd have to find it first.
And with the changing environment this certainly is possible.
I am excited to hear more about this subject :D
You do need someone watching out for these mobs.
Some other guild has got there first and you miss out.
Kill stealing.[/quote]
You mean actual competition and better organization required to win things? All these things, except kill stealing I guess, should be listed under your pro section of the post.
I’ve seen this before, where a large guild will hold an area for hours or even days on end, spamming the content for loot and making sure no one else gets a shot, especially early on when guilds find it essential to outfit their members with gear first and foremost, insuring they get first crack at “end-game” content, and the “obligatory” status of “XYZ dungeon” pioneers. All of this sounds okay and exciting from a developer standpoint because you’re looking at it through God-goggles, giggling like school girls at the prospect of the puny humans going bonkers over a little loot. Like thiefsrevenge has stated, in practice, it can be difficult to make checks and balances to alleviate such behavior if in fact, that is even something you care to worry about.
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It shouldn't be up to the devs alleviate such behavior, its up to the player base. If some guild is always holding an area and keeping you out, then make a stronger force to go kick them out. Since this is an open world game, and there are no **** factions involved, you can stop things like this from happening. If the other clan is stronger and plays the game better, then they deserve to hold onto the areas.
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This exactly. It's just more immersive/realistic to just encounter a deep cave that ends up being a dungeon with great rewards and difficult enemies with a satisfying to defeat boss at the end.
But also the bigger raids/dungeons (Especially those that are vital to the story of Ashes) should be instanced, so everyone can experience them without griefers/people constantly trying to complete them while there are already multiple groups trying.
The nodes should be constantly spitting out a variety of forms encounters based on player activity.
When that dragon appears to ravage the region, it's nest should not simply be an instance individual groups raid, rinse and repeat.
Much like a siege on a Metropolis, destroying that dragon's nest should take players in the region weeks or months to defeat - not simply a few hours for one raid.
Some of my fondest memories of the Temple of Three Wind were the death trains when people would pull every mob in the Dungeon and train them to the entrance. If you happened to walk in at the wrong time it was sad to be you. Mob corpses were long lasting and after a certain period of time freely lootable by anyone. you could do a temple run and get lucky and just pick up everything on a lucky run or the really hard bosses could one shot you. This is something i would love to relive in another game if they are done right.
@crymthann ...You have just level locked content, segregated the community and forced the devs down a road where the only relevent contant is the max level content and thus forced a grind race to max level to get access to the non obsolete content where everone else is at 'endgame'.
Personally I dont think thats a very smart way to make an MMO.
It is a great way to build a grind wall and encourage people to use the cash shop instead though.
There is no endgame here.
Instanced is usually just the group that zones into the dungeon together.
I don't think Ashes will have tagging.
When a Spider Demon comes to attack a town, who tagged it first cannot be a factor.