Glorious Alpha Two Testers!
Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Difficulty -- Hardmode
ArchivedUser
Guest
My biggest hope is that this game is hard. I played old school EQ even before Kunark launched. It was scary. Kithicor Forest at night was not a place you attempted to traverse before about level 40 unless you had SoW or were a bard. There were giants that would crush you while killing gators at the Oasis of Marr. There were just these seemingly awful things that would sometimes happen if you weren't paying attention that resulted in death, and death meant something. You lost a bit of experience, and could actually lose levels if you died enough times. You had to find your corpse where you died all without equipment, because that was what was on your corpse. You needed that stuff back because it took ages to get some of it. To earn the platinum to buy it in the Eastern Commanlands tunnel, or to loot it yourself after camping ultra rare spawn points hoping that a specific named mob would spawn, and then hoping he would drop the item you were after. I spent countless hours and probably days killing a damn froglok in upper guk to get that ranged item that had like +10 to a couple of resistances. That was it, that's all I got for it, some resistances. Also if you weren't savvy or smart enough to remove your ranged attack button from the UI, you could throw that stupid ranged fork at a mob and it would be gone forever!
I miss that about MMO's... A challenge. The endless amounts of time spent farming an item just for the prestige of having it and showing it off. The quests that didn't have exclamation points and question marks over the heads of NPCs. There are still many many quests from the first couple expansions of EQ that have never even been solved! There is literally 18 year old content that hasn't been finished!
I'm totally on board if that's what you guys have in mind. I bought a lifetime membership for a reason Devs, how can I help?
I miss that about MMO's... A challenge. The endless amounts of time spent farming an item just for the prestige of having it and showing it off. The quests that didn't have exclamation points and question marks over the heads of NPCs. There are still many many quests from the first couple expansions of EQ that have never even been solved! There is literally 18 year old content that hasn't been finished!
I'm totally on board if that's what you guys have in mind. I bought a lifetime membership for a reason Devs, how can I help?
0
Comments
The starting area has wolves, the ai of the wolves should be like oh I'm 50% health let me retreat and gather other wolves so we can gang the player. This could increase the challenge, so now I don't have to mindlessly click a button I actually have to pay attention.
Also Thing That Should Not Be is one of the better Metallica songs out there.
Button Mashing has it's time and place, but I really want that necessity for situational awareness to come back. Players had better be paying attention if they're out in the wilds or the consequences are disastrous on occassion. Death should matter, and want to be avoided at all costs on the one hand. On the other hand a skilled player should be more than capable of avoiding death if they have the afformentioned situational awareness.
Not every single area in the game needs a super dangerous element to make it fun, EQ never had that. I can well assure you that every time I zoned from Oasis to Southern Ro I was scanning as soon as I entered for them damn Sand Giants that roamed around down there though. I was aware they were there, even though most of that desert was inhabited by menial orcs, undead, and spiders those sand giants would wreck you. Also, and very very rarely, terrorantula would spawn there which was a gigantic spider. An even odder occurance was the appearance of Imhotep, a named zombie that dropped a little cudgel sometimes. I killed Imhotep once and got that cudgel on my druid, never saw him again lol
And I don't like having to "mash potato" buttons and acquire carpal tunnel or arthritis. If you have gouty arthritis, osteo arthritis, or rheumatoid arthritis then you will feel much and such pleasure in pain says Pinhead the Cenobite of Hellraiser fame.
I miss that about MMO’s… A challenge. The endless amounts of time spent farming an item just for the prestige of having it and showing it off. The quests that didn’t have exclamation points and question marks over the heads of NPCs. There are still many many quests from the first couple expansions of EQ that have never even been solved! There is literally 18 year old content that hasn’t been finished!
I’m totally on board if that’s what you guys have in mind. I bought a lifetime membership for a reason Devs, how can I help?
[/quote] Not sure if your aware or not but some of the people on the Ashes dev team were also on the Everquest team so that should bold well for what you want
I like ratios above. They seem pretty reasonable certainly. It seems like many of us are on the same page. We just need to ensure the Devs get there as well boys!
No this game should not be casual friend and no it shouldnt have any face roll easy content anywhere except the new player intro. After that you should have everything tough. You should be forced to pull 1 maybe 2 mobs at a time and if not using your abilities to win you should die. This game will have players that come up and kill you out in the world and making Face roll easy content or any easy content a disservice to this game because the casual players will fucking bitch that PKers are making this game hard. If you want Easy there are already countless other MMORPGs on the market that are EASY, its best if you stay with them. Its time that players are forced to get better or be left behind. I am not saying you shouldnt be able to solo, there is a difference between soloing and being mindful of what you pull, how much you pull and your surroundings vs pulling 10 mobs AOEing them down and moving to the next 10 and not caring if you pull 20 because you have no chance to die. That crap should not be here.
Also Soloing should be wholly inefficient it should be more efficient to group with a few players and level together than it is solo. Again not saying you shouldnt be able to solo BUT if I am in a group of 3 and we are killing stuff together we should be able to kill faster and have a lower risk of dying than a solo player. It will not force people to group up BUT it will encourage it.
Stay on the beaten track and the risk should be slight and the reward menial.
Stray off the beaten track and things should get interesting.
Leave the reservation...... oh boy... you better be packing some serious meat or come mob handed.
So, I agree with @Darthaden
You need to cater to all levels. You cant gate content.
So you just need to plan appropriate areas and appropriate rewards as you veer off the beaten track.
It would also be required for more dangerous areas to increase in rarity.
Stick the worst of the worst at mountain tops, depths of an abyss or mountain.
Places further and further out of the way where dark things lurk.
Youre off the edge of the map...HERE BE MONSTERS!
Stay on the beaten track and the risk should be slight and the reward menial.
Stray off the beaten track and things should get interesting.
Leave the reservation…… oh boy… you better be packing some serious meat or come mob handed.
So, I agree with <a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/users/darthaden/" rel="nofollow">@darthaden</a>
You need to cater to all levels. You cant gate content.
So you just need to plan appropriate areas and appropriate rewards as you veer off the beaten track.
It would also be required for more dangerous areas to increase in rarity.
Stick the worst of the worst at mountain tops, depths of an abyss or mountain.
Places further and further out of the way where dark things lurk.
Youre off the edge of the map…HERE BE MONSTERS!
[/quote]
Catering to the I SMASH BUTTONS players do nothing but screw your game. SWTOR ended up making the game very Casual when it was tough in closed beta. I remember mobs that were tough to fight and players we better yet when the game released it released with people consuming all the content because it had to be EASY for the group that do not want to use their skills to overcome some tough content. Its time to stay away from making everyone happy because the minute you try that you get WOW and you make no one happy. Again Players should have to be 100 percent aware of their surroundings. Do you think having EASY content will make players aware of a PKer that AIM is just to kill players who just want to play a Diablo style game? No they will not and these players will just bitch and bitch and bitch about how HARD the game is because PVP is a core part of this game.
No we do not need to cater to everyone. If players do not want to pay attention they can go play other games that you can pull 100 mobs and still not die. Its time players need to select how they pull and what they pull and make this game require several hundred hours to level.
I'm so down with what you're saying, and I apologize that this topic has been discussed before. I'm new on the forum here and just trying to get my head in the game. I only heard about AoC like 2 weeks ago! I'd like to thank you for still being accomodating to the subject at hand though. Much appreciation!
Do you by chance know if the development team is on board with this train of thought?
I’m so down with what you’re saying, and I apologize that this topic has been discussed before. I’m new on the forum here and just trying to get my head in the game. I only heard about AoC like 2 weeks ago! I’d like to thank you for still being accomodating to the subject at hand though. Much appreciation!
Do you by chance know if the development team is on board with this train of thought?
[/quote]
I dont know if the development team will do this or not. But I suspect they will since most of them are SWG developers as well as EQ developers. With the death penalty going to cost people XP when they die I suspect that they are not going to put mindless game play in this game as well. Not saying that the new player tutorial will not be easy, that is understandable to try to acclimate players to your game. Difficulty should ramp up fairly quickly after that. I dont think it should be as hard as older games like UO which I played were but it should be a lot harder than today's MMORPGs. SWG had a fairly good balance of easier and tougher content, when you did missions you did missions at your skill level or below vs above because solo the risk was very high you would die. BUT if you brought friends you were golden because it lowered your chance to die. Thats the way Ashes should be.
I only played EQ1 for a few weeks if that. My main focus was UO until SWG came out. I also played FFXI before WOW released. I would love to see a SWG/FFXI approach to the content. Tough solo, you need to pay attention but it gets easier with a party. Though in FFXI you always had to have a party but a good Party had nearly no risk of dying because people knew how to work together.
"Easy to solo" means able to progress at a reasonable rate that does not feel like an interminable grind.
This is especially true in a game with xp debt.
EQ especially was a nightmare of hell levels where white (same level) battles were too difficult - battles seeming like you would win, only for the mob to get in a lucky strike that kills you before you kill them. But the blue (1-5 levels below) battles you can win only give you scraps of xp. Again, a compounded nightmare when there is also xp debt.
My expectation is that we will be naturally working/fighting together more in AoC, though.
We're striving to improve and progress a region; not just our individual characters.
I'm expecting we won't have tagging like in EQ and WoW. Rather people in the same vicinity will be able to work together on common goals even if not in a formal group. Because everyone will contributing to supporting the node(s).
No this game should not be casual friend and no it shouldnt have any face roll easy content anywhere except the new player intro. After that you should have everything tough. You should be forced to pull 1 maybe 2 mobs at a time and if not using your abilities to win you should die. This game will have players that come up and kill you out in the world and making Face roll easy content or any easy content a disservice to this game because the casual players will fucking bitch that PKers are making this game hard. If you want Easy there are already countless other MMORPGs on the market that are EASY, its best if you stay with them. Its time that players are forced to get better or be left behind. I am not saying you shouldnt be able to solo, there is a difference between soloing and being mindful of what you pull, how much you pull and your surroundings vs pulling 10 mobs AOEing them down and moving to the next 10 and not caring if you pull 20 because you have no chance to die. That crap should not be here.
Also Soloing should be wholly inefficient it should be more efficient to group with a few players and level together than it is solo. Again not saying you shouldnt be able to solo BUT if I am in a group of 3 and we are killing stuff together we should be able to kill faster and have a lower risk of dying than a solo player. It will not force people to group up BUT it will encourage it.
[/quote]
AoC needs to be casual friendly.
Back in the days of UO and EQ, most gamers were hardcore - hardcore challenge/hardcore time.
Because most gamers were young, single, male students... or early in their careers with plenty of time to devote to conquering challenges. Casual players were a minority. Especially for multiplayer games.
But, 20+ years later, those gamers have more real life responsibilities and a lot less time to devote to gaming.
So, most gamers are some form of casual.
At "best", those older gamers with kids are hardcore challenge/casual time. They still crave hardcore challenges, but they can't devote hardcore time defeating challenges and leveling.
Online RPGs also attract players who care more about living out a role in a virtual world than they do overcoming difficult challenges. Many of these will be players who are casual challenge/casual time... especially those who have demanding careers and families to take care of.
While some RPers will be casual challenge/hardcore time...especially those who work 8 hour days and are single.
To have masses of players in the game, an MMO will have to accommodate all 4 of those playstyles.
Most of which will be some form of casual.
Thankfully, the AoC games design does accommodate all 4 of those playstyles.
Solo really just means not in a formal group.
In AoC, there should be plenty of soloers to do - especially since everything contributes to the evolution of the nodes.
I shouldn't have to be in a group in order to gather wood or craft weapons. If there are shrines that need to be blessed, there should be some that can be blessed by individuals as well as some that must be blessed by a group.
I should be able to solo stealth my way through a castle and disarm many (if not all) of the traps and return with maps and secret documents. If I want to kill everyone in the castle, that should require a group.
Winning a Player v Player encounter should not be only about who is best at direct combat.
The focus of a good RPG should not be on fighting. That's just a tech limitation that existed 20 years ago.
We should be at a place currently where my Scientific Rogue can out Stealth your Military Tank.
Based on how we've built our characters such that those people who want to excel at avoiding combat via their stealth builds have a good chance to do so. Which isn't necessarily easy - it's just a different type of challenge. Challenge shouldn't be solely based on kills combat.
We already have carebears whining about PKers.
We also have some PKers whining about corruption.
Can't please all of the people all of the time.
But, we can accommodate a variety of playstyles in an MMORPG.
You make very valid points man. I myself, being a single dad of a little girl, fall into your category of hardcare challenge/casual time. Back in the day, 20 years ago, I certainly fell into the hardcore/hardcore group as I might imagine you did as well as Helzbelz perhaps. Accomodating all 4 of these groups, while challenging, will create a more lush environment with throngs of players. That's exactly what we need here.
You all are starting to make my opinion change on Hardmode. While it should be a challenging game for those who seek it, it should be a fun game even for those who don't wish to rise to those super hard challenges. While I been playing WoW again since Legion released, I've been able to complete current raid content on heroic in PUGs. This is while investing only an hour or two sporadically more often than not at night. Once the wee lass gets in bed I'm nerding it up for a bit if I got the free time. Mythic isn't necessarily out of my grasp, I think it's more an issue that my heart just isn't in WoW and Heroic difficulty is enough at this time.
With a potentially new, great game like AoC. My heart may be into it enough to spend those couple hours at night tackling the hardest challenges in the game again. At the very least I look forward to having that level of difficulty as an option hopefully. Meanwhile those less inclined to undertake the challenge should have a satisfying game to play at their comfort level.
TLDR: Hardmode should exist for those willing to take on the challenge. Less challenging content, with lesser reward, for those who aren't able to invest that amount of effort.
Full name is Dygz Briarthorn
I originally had a Ratonga as an avatar, but once Landmark opened up I used the avatar below:
<img src="https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/741661304323117057/XJZHwnFV.jpg" alt="Dygz" />
We used to have an EQNext podcast at Twitch.tv/TheoryForge
We will start our podcast for Ashes of Creation next weekend.
A major part of the fun is reconnecting with community members from other games. That's the best!
TLDR: Hardmode should exist for those willing to take on the challenge. Less challenging content, with lesser reward, for those who aren’t able to invest that amount of effort.[/quote]
Great response!
I think of it as different rewards for different challenges rather than less challenging content with lesser rewards.
If I'm a Rogue avoiding combat, I don't need epic combat gear and epic combat weapons.
Rather I'm going to want epic stealth gear that helps me spot and disarm traps and hide in shadows.
Since I'm casual challenge/hardcore time... I love gaining access to unique fashion items, like the Explorer's Cape in WoW which opens up after you've attained xxx exploration achievements.
In EQ, I never really felt like a true Druid until I obtained SoW.
In WoW, I never felt like a true Druid until I obtained Catform. Mostly because I loved the cosmetic appearance.
Cosmetic items for casual/casual rewards aren't necessarily "lesser". I'm fashion over function, so unique appearance has more value for me than uber stats.
What I love about AoC is that it's going to take us weeks and months to build up a city and Metropolis.
And it's going to take weeks and months of a siege to destroy a city or Metropolis.
That's hardcore... even if it's just "hardcore" time.
But, even hardcore challenge/casual time folk might at some point be powerful enough to blow a hole through a gate with an hour of concentrated effort and then hop out of the game.
Maybe casual/casual players would be healing combatants on the outskirts of the siege. Or cooks who dole out provisions that buff the combatants.
And, yeah, you get the rewards that reflect the tasks that you accomplished.
I am pretty certain I saw you on some discussion videos as well. Let me know if you want fresh faces or points of view on those and if I'm able to at the time I'll give my two cents.
Again valid points. You have a unique way of parsing the abrasion of my written language into a more eloquent point of view. I love the idea of casual/casual merchants or craftsman back at the home node sending supplies to the hardcore fighters on the front lines during a siege. That sort of massive community effort for all playstyles is overwhelmingly appealing.
<div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/difficulty-hardmode/#post-16283" rel="nofollow">Rune_Relic wrote:</a></div>
The risk should be commensurate with the reward.
Stay on the beaten track and the risk should be slight and the reward menial.
Stray off the beaten track and things should get interesting.
Leave the reservation…… oh boy… you better be packing some serious meat or come mob handed.
So, I agree with <a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/users/darthaden/" rel="nofollow">@darthaden</a>
You need to cater to all levels. You cant gate content.
So you just need to plan appropriate areas and appropriate rewards as you veer off the beaten track.
It would also be required for more dangerous areas to increase in rarity.
Stick the worst of the worst at mountain tops, depths of an abyss or mountain.
Places further and further out of the way where dark things lurk.
Youre off the edge of the map…HERE BE MONSTERS!
</blockquote>
Catering to the I SMASH BUTTONS players do nothing but screw your game. SWTOR ended up making the game very Casual when it was tough in closed beta. I remember mobs that were tough to fight and players we better yet when the game released it released with people consuming all the content because it had to be EASY for the group that do not want to use their skills to overcome some tough content. Its time to stay away from making everyone happy because the minute you try that you get WOW and you make no one happy. Again Players should have to be 100 percent aware of their surroundings. Do you think having EASY content will make players aware of a PKer that AIM is just to kill players who just want to play a Diablo style game? No they will not and these players will just bitch and bitch and bitch about how HARD the game is because PVP is a core part of this game.
No we do not need to cater to everyone. If players do not want to pay attention they can go play other games that you can pull 100 mobs and still not die. Its time players need to select how they pull and what they pull and make this game require several hundred hours to level.
[/quote]
Hhhhmmm! You want a game. But you dont want to let the players in that pay the bills ?
Should you really have a 'this is my game and everyone will play my way!' attitude ?
Good luck with that.
If you go on a quest the nature of it should change difficulty if you form a party for people to help you with the quest, it should become harder and the rewards should change to fit the difficulty too. This will encourage group play, but it will also let solo players play the game without an issue.
<div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/difficulty-hardmode/#post-16281" rel="nofollow">Helzbelz wrote:</a></div>
This has already been a topic on the forum in the past <a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/casual-friendly/" rel="nofollow"></a>
AoC needs to be casual friendly.
Back in the days of UO and EQ, most gamers were hardcore – hardcore challenge/hardcore time.
Because most gamers were young, single, male students… or early in their careers with plenty of time to devote to conquering challenges. Casual players were a minority. Especially for multiplayer games.
But, 20+ years later, those gamers have more real life responsibilities and a lot less time to devote to gaming.
So, most gamers are some form of casual.
At “best”, those older gamers with kids are hardcore challenge/casual time. They still crave hardcore challenges, but they can’t devote hardcore time defeating challenges and leveling.
Online RPGs also attract players who care more about living out a role in a virtual world than they do overcoming difficult challenges. Many of these will be players who are casual challenge/casual time… especially those who have demanding careers and families to take care of.
While some RPers will be casual challenge/hardcore time…especially those who work 8 hour days and are single.
To have masses of players in the game, an MMO will have to accommodate all 4 of those playstyles.
Most of which will be some form of casual.
Thankfully, the AoC games design does accommodate all 4 of those playstyles.
Solo really just means not in a formal group.
In AoC, there should be plenty of soloers to do – especially since everything contributes to the evolution of the nodes.
I shouldn’t have to be in a group in order to gather wood or craft weapons. If there are shrines that need to be blessed, there should be some that can be blessed by individuals as well as some that must be blessed by a group.
I should be able to solo stealth my way through a castle and disarm many (if not all) of the traps and return with maps and secret documents. If I want to kill everyone in the castle, that should require a group.
Winning a Player v Player encounter should not be only about who is best at direct combat.
The focus of a good RPG should not be on fighting. That’s just a tech limitation that existed 20 years ago.
We should be at a place currently where my Scientific Rogue can out Stealth your Military Tank.
Based on how we’ve built our characters such that those people who want to excel at avoiding combat via their stealth builds have a good chance to do so. Which isn’t necessarily easy – it’s just a different type of challenge. Challenge shouldn’t be solely based on kills combat.
We already have carebears whining about PKers.
We also have some PKers whining about corruption.
Can’t please all of the people all of the time.
But, we can accommodate a variety of playstyles in an MMORPG.
[/quote]
First I have a wife, 3 kids, I spend about 10 hours a week working out, 50 hours a week working. Thing is I can still play a harder core game because I take a long view of MMORPGS. Too Often we take a short view of, well like in WOW you can level from 1 to 110 in what 40 hours? Then what you are bored out of your skull. Add to that there is 0 challenge in WOW today, you grab packs of mobs and speed kill shit.
Ashes CANNOT cater to that type of player if it wants to be successful. While you can have content for people with less time like me who will have between 5 to 10 hours of game time a week. If it takes a hardcore player 4 weeks to level because it takes 300+ hours and it takes me 3 months. SO what. I do not need to be max level that fast. Why? should the game become easier so I can be the same level as John No Job living in Moms basement who plays games 16 hours a day? I will tell you, I shouldnt. I been that kid in my parents basement back in 1998 playing UO. You are always going to have people like that and people like me now. BUT you dont need to make the game so lackluster that I am bored in 2 months and want to leave.
What must be does is YES players need to pay attention to their surroundings, hell you will have PKers in the world that will come and kill you. So having pointless PVE mobs will make you a crappy ass player. Gathering up countless mobs and killing them fast does a disservice to any game. Just look at the entire genera. Gamers pre-WOW who ever had kids and a life outside the game were 1000 times better than players of today. BECAUSE They didnt play an aimless game.
Again I understand making content where players can jump in fairly fast for an hour and get out. BUT that should not be the normal. Players should need to dedicate more time than 2 or 3 hours a week. Otherwise if you cater to these players to make them the same as everyone else just as fast as the hardcore players, you will make the game boring and end up making this game die fast.
The Balance is not Aimless play. The balance is making everything meaningful and having making things like grouping with BillyJoeBob out in the world to finish a quest quicker. If you want to be anti social than it should take you longer, it shouldnt be made easy because you dont want to say heyBillyJoeBob lets group up get this shit done in 5 minutes instead of 20 minutes. That is casual friends BUT it is not Anti Social, today's Weekend Warrior friendly.
If you go on a quest the nature of it should change difficulty if you form a party for people to help you with the quest, it should become harder and the rewards should change to fit the difficulty too. This will encourage group play, but it will also let solo players play the game without an issue.
[/quote]
Yes this will work too. Now even if content gets harder because you are in a group, it might also get easier because if you are running with friends that you know how to play together it might not be hard at all. It might end up faceroll easy just because you all play very well together and know what you are doing.
Should you really have a ‘this is my game and everyone will play my way!’ attitude ?
Good luck with that.[/quote]
I understand WAY more than most people the direction Ashes needs to take. You cannot be faceroll Aimless game play. People WILL BE bored with that in a matter of weeks. If you want that game play there are a few dozen games with that content. And no they should not make game play for everyone. That takes a lot of development time, QA time and in the end most humans take the path of least resistance. So if its easier and more efficient to do Aimless game play everyone will do that shit then get bored.
If you dont want a game that is going to take a lot of your time over months and years then you are in the wrong game. I am sorry to say this but YES content should last 6 to 12 months easily when this game launches. IF it does not games will be bored inside 2 months and they will not make their initial investment back and end up having to either shut the game down or go P2W. End of story. If it is going to take you 3 to 4 month as it will me to level, that its good for the game. We will be tied up with engaging content then when we get to max level at 4 months we will have content like Nodes that will take another 2 to 3 months to level up. Add to that the crafting we need to do and gather mats for. It should take a good 9 to 12 months before we get 5 level 6 nodes. Thats how long it should take. If they are up within 2 months people will get bored. I dont want that to happen.
Thing is if you have Easy than just about all your player base will do the easy mode and ignore the harder content. Everything should be tough in the way of you need to pay attention to what is going on. I am not saying it should take a raid to fight every mob. But if you end up pulling 2 mobs it should really challenge you. For example in SWG when you took a mission you wouldnt just focus on the nest of what ever you were attacking. You would hit it until a Mob comes out or 2, then kill them then get back to the nest. You keep doing that until its dead.
What it done want to see is people having 10 mobs on then focus on the quest objective take care of the objective and then just kill the 10 mobs. It should be focused game play. Also you as a mage shouldnt stand toe to toe with a mob, you should keep at a distance and kill it. Not act like a fighter and melee with spells the mob.
I want people to think about what they are doing and what is around them. That is why I am saying I want it hard. Diablo like game play just will not work here.
I feel like the community is going to be the biggest part of a game like this and if the community gets bored and leaves the game kinda loses it's purpose too.
When leveling include monotonous medding and tedious camping and hell levels, like in EQ - the journey is boring.
It's boring to have to kill 400 rats and then kill 400 kobolds and then kill 400 panthers.
What made EQ fun is that it was the first time we could play an RPG with masses of other people in a 3D space, running through the world in 1st person or 3rd person view. It was blast to be examining a shrine out in the wilderness and perk up as you hear the giggle of a skeleton or the howl of a kobold and head off to exact revenge for them jacking you up when you were an inexperienced newbie.
We didn't just have to use our imaginations to experience day and night... and night was pitch-black terrifying. Probably amongst the most frightening encounter is the first time your screen turns black and you wonder WTF happened to your PC - to realize about 20 seconds later someone hit you with a Blind spell. And then again the first time someone casts Fear and your avatar starts running away uncontrollably.
It was fun because living in a virtual world along with masses of other players was exhilarating and new.
The time sinks were not fun - we just didn't care because living in a virtual Tolkien world trumped all the annoying mechanics.
Bumping into invisible walls until you found that one specific zone point was not fun.
But, I was expecting to be able to ever quest - not reach an endgame.
Of course, after a few months the leveling process was just too tedious and boring to even care about reaching 20th level - let alone endgame. But, by then, new game worlds appeared for us to explore. None of which really appealed to me until AO.
For several years I would just cycle between EQ and AO for the most part. Returning to EQ for a couple months whenever they made the gameplay easier.
Once EQ2 came along, I swore it would be way more compelling than WoW. Better graphics... and better lore. All my co-workers at Activision ridiculed me choosing EQ2 over WoW. But, I loved adventuring in EQ2 despite the strain on my PC and the tedious loading into zones and again running into invisible walls as I'm trying to travel within a zone.
Until my Activision bros formed started scheduling play sessions to play together in WoW. Only took a few days for me to abandon EQ2.
Playing WoW felt effortless by comparison. First and foremost, I no longer had to wait to load into a zone. And I didn't bump into invisible walls within a zone. If I wanted to travel to a new zone, I could just follow the road that leads to the new area. Also, WoW had quests that made me feel like I was my class. Being a Druid wasn't just about killing stuff - some quests had me healing animals or crafting healing potions or gaining a new travel form or calming/taming animals. Everything about WoW was just less of a hassle.
But, there were enough hell levels in WoW that I stopped playing before the vanilla endgame. Sometimes I'd finish all the quests at my current level and didn't want to waste the time it would take to gain xp by banging on individual mobs.
So, I'd wait for the next expansion to nerf those levels.
All of that to say that it's not about racing through to max level - though that can be fine if your goal is to be able to explore the newest expansion. Especially if you hope to play with your old friends.
The problem with the MMORPGs from the last couple of decades is that they have an endgame. The content is static until an expansion arrives while we're supposed to repeat the same quests/dungeons/raids over and over and over and over again.
Gear is not reward enough for that. At least not for me.
What we need is a revolutionary design founded on procedurally generated quests. In such a way that the quests truly never end.
I couldn't care less about reaching max level. I'm an Explorer, so I need new places to explore and then new things to do. Prefereably tasks related to my class/role rather than just having kill quests that any and player can and will do.
What constitutes fun or boring or tedious is going to be different for different playstyles.
Ashes of Creation is designed to accommodate a variety of playstyles.
The true beauty of Ashes of Creation is that we won't simply be focused on leveling our characters - we will also have to level the nodes that create our cities. Building a Metropolis from a village isn't a mere matter of days or weeks. That takes months of devotion. And even after we've built a Metropolis, we still have to maintain the node and defend the city.
Sure, players who want fast travel can have fast travel... but they have to build a Scientific Metropolis first.
And they have to have the diplomatic skills or the combat skills to ensure that the fast travel network remains active.
Thus, there will be no endgame.
AoC doesn't really need a hardmode because quite a bit of the challenge will come from diplomatic/political relationships with other players.
^This
The most dynamic thing in any MMO I've played has always been the interaction between players. Bosses come and go, quests get completed, the dungeon will respawn and the same adventures happen over and over. That stagnation becomes commonplace as individuals attempt to get that one sweet drop from the boss.
There can be those things in AoC, that seems fine. What would truly be interesting is the reliance of players on each other. The alchemist that doesn't have the combat skill to gather his own regents to create his illustrious and high priced potions. He could use his money from those high priced potions to fund those with fighting skills to gather more regents for him. He could use those funds to hire a farmer to grow them for him. The adventurers and farmers could use the money they gained from the alchemist to buy stronger weapons, or a bigger plow. A plow the farmer can't make on his own, but a blacksmith could. That blacksmith knowns a guy in a nearby village with the iron he needs because that player in the other town has a good enough mining skill to gather those metals. Those metals are heavy though, and need to be transported by caravan... better hire some guards too, bandit and rogue players can't mine, but they will steal your steel. Well now those bandits are flagged, and the adventurers go on a hunt for them and the missing metal. They kill the bandits and recover the metal and the blacksmith is able to make his weapons for the adventurers as well as the plow for that farmer. The alchemist gets his regents and creates his potions, granting the adventurers with a few as well.
Alchemist profits, Farmer profits, Adventurers profit, Blacksmith profits, Miner profits, Caravaneer profits, Caravan Guards profits, Thieves... well they almost profit in this scenario.
All this dynamic takes place in the world where there are still mobs, quests, dungeons, bosses, nodes, metropoli, villages, loot, rare mobs, raids, and the most notorious of all... other players.