Race Selection seems lackluster

ArchivedUser

Im trying to go into it open minded for future dev blogs, but the fact that "8 distinct races" has already turned into "4 standard fare slightly different facial featured humanoid races, with recolor subspecies so now its actually 8" is concerning to me personally at least. What are your opinions on this, do you feel that we could try and sway dev planning for different, genuinely distinct races? Im wondering if maybe the current character developer hasn't had as much experience with non humanesque featured species (not meant as a jab, i understand someone working within their experience level)

ArchivedUser

I agree it is lackluster. I would like to see more diversity when it comes to races, especially seeing how well the kickstarter is going. All I want is a furry race like come on. Let me live out my dream of being a wolfman with a 2h T_T or add a underwater race since ships are going to become a thing. Let this fantasy world become a world where wolfman human elf orc dwarf can Unite as one to build and conquer the world.

ArchivedUser

I think playing different races is a stupid idea and they shouldn't waste their time with it. Mostly In games I see different races behave like different cultures of humans anyway and besides there physical look they are almost no different from humans, so they should just have one race with different cultures for humans. There is no need to complicate things for no reason adding races that arent much different from humans. and If they do add races they will make all of the individual races behave in the same way or into stereotypes, which is really boring. Humans are complicated and complex enough, so they should do a really good job at making humans instead of a crappy job at making multiple races.

But I think they should add half monster half humans, like mermaids or spider women. Different races should only be npcs and not playable as characters, its a waste of time.

I don't mind costumes making you look like different races though, or character customization making you look like a different race.

ArchivedUser

nah its more than enough races.. they can always add more in the future, first we need the vanilla game.

ArchivedUser

I agree with op. I feel like we got humans, humans with pointy ears, humans with pointy teeth, and short humans. When i read 8 distinct races, i had hopes that one of them would interest me. Devs seem to look at races as being distinct culturally then physically, which is cool but i wish one had a physical appearance that interests to me. We have 2 zones as stretch goals, im hoping we get another goal for a race that goes with one or both of those areas.

ArchivedUser

I'm gonna suggest a portal in the "Underwater" stretch goal, and a portal in the "Underground" stretch goal. Each of which provide an additional race, and 2 sub-races.

:p

ArchivedUser

I just feel like if a game as old as WoW can have not 4, not 8, but 11 culturally, stylistically different races, having just your standard fantasy fare seems exceedingly lazy, especially for a game touting as being a bar apart from whats out there. The races of guild wars 2 are awesome, original, and all have their own interesting culture and style in that as well. You can think playing different races is a stupid idea, but if a game promises 8 distinct ones before it even goes into kickstarter and then only gives you 4 (with whatever color swap/oh look, this culture is japanese feudalism vs medieval europe 'subraces') it seems to fly in the face and discourage the investment that there will truly be any real innovation here. The game systems sound interesting, i guess my whole point is they already failed to deliver on this power point from their FAQ
.

ArchivedUser

Sooooooo you say they are all just different humans and next you say wow has 11 culturally sylistic different races, even tho they have exactly "those 4" too. What?
In wow you got Humans, short bulky humans, chibi humans, bulky green humans, tall humans with pointy ears and shiny eyes..... trolls are just high as fuck humans anyway, goblins are just chibi humans in green and what about the humans that turn into a wolfs, jsut humans anyway? <rolles eyes>
Do we want to talk about how Elves and trolls are barely any different, just put in different landscapes. Goblins are just the explosive fixated counterpart to gnomes. Geez while I love the lore of WoW, you could have barely picked a worse example for your agenda.

Where did you even see the style and culture from the 8 races to base your opinion on?
That would interest me deeply. They barely made 3 working models to show of a tiny little bit of what's to come, or are you one of those people that don't understandt that the UI as well as animations etc. are placeholders in a pre-alpha game?

You can be skeptical, that's your right, but you are overstepping quite far imo to stir up some nonexistend drama. I would have liked some more exotic diversity like a feathered race too, but we are talking about a high fantasy setting and correct me if I am wrong, but that means Humans - Elves - Dwarfs - halflings - goblins for player characters /story characters. So I can't really say that I am surprised.

ArchivedUser

I respect your opinion, but I personally think 8 races is perfectly fine. 4 major species, with 2 different bloodlines in each, making 8 distinct races. I think this is great, and will be enough variety for now. They can always add more later.

ArchivedUser

I don't think anyone here is trying to stir drama, no one is raising a huge fuss or saying they game is unplayable. As you said, the devs haven't shown us that there will be of a difference physically in classes and we have raised a concern. You pretty much validate what we are doing.

Maybe we are jumping to conclusions but reading about the races, looking at the concept art, style, and the models we do have, i have trouble imagining races varying much in appearance. the tank and fighter look like they are two different race of humans but physically i'm not seeing much of a difference.

This is all relative but comparing trolls and night elves to the tank and fighter, i think wow's races have more differences. looking at orcs in the concept, they look like they might be a little taller then humans with pointy ears and teeth. I'm not seeing much of a difference. I'm ok with this as it goes with the style they have but at the same time i'm asking if we can get something more.

ArchivedUser

Its annoying that intrepid studios will just copy/paste all the typical races used in fantasy settings like goblins, elves, wolf people, ect. Is it hard to be original and make up your own fantasy races if you must add them? All the mmo's out today are boring because we always see the same stupid creatures, nothing ever original like in star wars lore.

ArchivedUser

My name is Vachery and I'd like to play a sentient gas cloud.

Please allow me to 'wear' that human shiny armor and wield a human bow and arrow. Um.... sadly it doesn't really work unless everything else is written and coded for it totally in advance, in reality the chances are that everything is only ever really going to be one anthro-human-type or another.

Yes, more variants on those human-types would be great, but as to any other 'different' races I think suggestions and ideas are the limitations here.

- what would it look like?
-how will that work with anything already produced for human types?

Yes they'd be fascinating to see and I'd love to play with them.... but.... it's a huge HUUUUUUUGGGE ask from a kickstarter mmo.

ArchivedUser

Adding a race doesn't/shouldn't require coding, it requires art.... It's just a different model. They don't have to suddenly re-code the whole character controller because they are adding a race with scales, feathers or is made of gas. It does mean they need to create all the animations for the model and fit all the gear to it but they already have to do that for the current races.

Like all the other stretch goals, this wouldn't be something we would expect for launch, it just would be nice to have at some point.

I'm going to be gliding around on a gorilla with a owl head, moth wings, and a lemur's tail. With all the unique mounts we have, i don't think having a less human looking race is stretching the universe too much.

ArchivedUser

Yup, now I feel rather stupid :D

Sorry for the sudden attack of drama. If it's not as tricky as it could be, yes, more races!

Thanks McStackerson for bringing me back to my senses.

ArchivedUser

It's cool. It still isn't an easy thing to do and is something they have to think about before adding. it's a lot of work for an artist and increases the amount of work they need to do when they add more ability animations or gear.

ArchivedUser

The races issue has certainly become a blemish on what has been shown thus far. It doesn't exactly scream originality, but then everything nowadays is inspired or pulled from other mediums. I think GW2 has done the best with trying a new spin on races despite that anyone can look at them and see racial references. Everything is based on templates. I agree that creating a new race is quite simply about art, but lore, character models, and racial bonuses all have to be considered as well.

I agree that new races can always be added in later. The only one that actually bugs me is there are four races. Each with two subtypes. I wouldn't really call that 8 actual races.. It just kinda feels cheated.. And I love seeing tribal/barbarian races but come on.. making them dwarves..? It feels weird and I'm not sure what to really think of that yet..

ArchivedUser

People don't seem to complain about races in a game like the Elder Scrolls series. They've got men of all types, human men, lizard men, cat men, elf men, giant men, etc.

Cut the devs a little slack. If you have a suggestion, bring it forward. Race selection offers immersion which in turn offers replayability and retention.

ArchivedUser

I agree with most that the more race options you have the better to ensure the maximum amount of diversity. However, I also don't mind if they add more races later on and focus on getting the game built as planned for the time being. New races can come with expansions or whatever.

ArchivedUser

Oh god.....slime race incoming
lmao

ArchivedUser

New Underrealm Race added as a stretch goal for hitting $2.5 million

Specifies Underrealm player race with beast like attributes with additional lore and storylines.

Gnolls, maybe?

ArchivedUser

I'm not sure I understand the cause of concern, regarding the playable races, or lack thereof.

Granted, the choices in race that have been revealed thus far are standard in fare. The reason, imo, for that is these races are easily identifiable, thus easier for players to relate to, allowing for easier immersion. It's easier to relate to a humanoid race, because we attribute human characteristics, and goals, to these races.

Opposite that, you could have truly non-humanoid playable races, but what would be the "core" of these races. Just as an example, if the devs included a "monster race", like a beholder, what would be the beholders motivation. They're only motivated by dominating/enslaving, and eating humanoid races. And, how would that race develop a node? I can't see them helping out in any artisan class, unless they made one that involved skinning other races with their eye-beams.....and then eating them.

What would motivate a slime race? An ant race (no, not a human-insect race, but a big ass ant, running around on all six, with chittering mandibles), etc etc etc. The devs could come up with unique non-humanoid races, and perhaps come up with appropriate motivations for why those races would want to build a civilization beside humanoids, but that would be a tall order, imo. Then, take into account, what's the likelihood that players would be interested in the aesthetics, and lore, behind said non-humanoid races.

I hope that the differences between the races will be at least enough that their not just the same exact model, with different colors. Without seeing any actual game models, beyond humans (not sure if the mage was a human or elf), I'll withhold judgement. Also, it's fairly common to include additional races, as the game progresses, depending on it's success. I'm more concerned that they get the core mechanics of the game right, than I am about expanding playable races. The devs have enough on their hands. No need to tackle more than you can chew. That can wait for later.

ArchivedUser

First of all, don't compare WOW with AoC.
Second they started of with 8 different races as well (human elf dwarf gnome/orc troll undead tauren)
third, YES i want a great job on 8 human races rather then a mediocre or bad job on 8 different races
fourth, it's not just human races i mean even if u compared it to WOW, they where all walking on 2 leggs talking building structures and cultures....
fifth, YES to have the vanilla game first and being thought through well is more important then the races we beginn with. more important to me is not having genderlock!!! and it would be nice if every race could do every class.
we can get other races later.
but i like the idea of an underwater or underground race but we need to think this through very well because they have to get on the surface at some point and the actual races now would need to go underground/water at some point.
another important thing would be dynamic music for non combat and combat inside and outside of cities and cultural diversity for it.
maybe we get a furry or lizard race later on but for now i just wnat this game to get done and this really well pollished!!!

ArchivedUser

I'm reserving my opinion for when they have shown us these races in more art concept drawings, and some moving video. At first it did seem a little underwhelming, but they may be more diverse than imagined.

I, too, would like a furry race, but if the game play delivers, I'm ok.

ArchivedUser

I personally find the typical DnD race selection reassuring, but also curious with the secondary branch.

I just need dwarfs, but surfing dwarfs, common that pretty neat.

If anyone wants more starting races than fingers crossed the KS get another 1mil.

Without more in game assets and concept art i feel making claims that the race selection is lackluster is a bit premature.

Also remember that if gearing is universal and your race variety is overly diverse then making items fit can be detrimental and resource/development heavy.

ArchivedUser

Adding races is not easy. You have the question of what armour fits? Does it clip though pointy ears, tails, etc. You need to design hundreds of new in game assets. It does not make sense that an armour taken from a Dwarf or troll should fit a man or elf. That can be fixed. Amour recrafting skills, etc. However it's more work for the devs. Making several out fits and scaling them vertically is easy. Hence the basic tall, medium , short human option but how do you armour a merman? Another game, in the works, has them but gives them a spell the flips then from fish tailed mer form to human with legs. No change above the waist. Nice.

It is doable. I could do the cloud guy, the Slime race and the sentient quadruped but there would be a lot of remodeling. And in most cases you would just get fantasy mecha for the first two and magic barding for the third. How do you fit it into the lore where you have man ( or what ever) returning to a world long abandoned after a catastrophe? Again I could probably do that too and it would be fun. I have back story in search of an MMO. Where have they been? What was their technology when they left?

ArchivedUser

[quote quote=19680]I’m reserving my opinion for when they have shown us these races in more art concept drawings, and some moving video. At first it did seem a little underwhelming, but they may be more diverse than imagined.

I, too, would like a furry race, but if the game play delivers, I’m ok.

[/quote]

+1

I would like to see some Races that are not normally offered. Like Cat Folk, and Gnolls, and some thing that's more exotic could be Centaurs, and Half Dragons.

ArchivedUser

Hello agin,

Is their a spot in the forums that gives infomation and some artwork on the curent playable races?

ArchivedUser

Keep in mind guys this is literally the 'vanilla' level of AoC. Theres still a couple years till launch and plenty of new race options for expansions. Plus, hopefully, the underrealm race from kickstarter. Dont get bummed on this stuff so early in development. Between now and launch some of these race models may radically change.

ArchivedUser

Stylistically, I am happy with humans as they are. I'm wanting some costumization in terms of body shape and size, similair to the system in BDO. I'm really hoping that goblins end up in the game, hopefully modeled after the goblins from Styx the game. I am also hoping that the orcs look more bulky and more akin to the orcs from the war craft movie. As far as dwarves go I really want dwarves to look like the dwarves of Warhammer. I feel that mix like that would look great!

ArchivedUser

They can add more races in the future, if needed. Personally, I prefer just a few races but well developed, rather than many that look and behave all the same way. A race requires not just an unique look, but also lore and mechanics that can really make it special.