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Finite Resource Condundrum Resolution....AGAIN!
[A repost due to auto-deletion on edit]
We have been told that resources are finite.
That resource nodes will expire.
That equipment will decay and break.
Many people seems to have ignored the elephant in the room. At some point material will run out.
Many have even said/assumed new material nodes will pop up. But I think this may well be wrong.
We live in a throw away society where we replace everything with new.
I earlier times this was neither practical nor realistic.
Much of what was used would be recycled or repurposed.
Which kind of gave me a possible answer to this finite conundrum.
Those material nodes will be a bank or reservoir of all available materials.
Once of them across the world have been found and exploited their depletion will be final.
So what then ? Now you choose what you value most.
Now you sacrifice that which is precious to gain an alternative reward.
Now the nodes survival may very well depend on the sacrifice and repurposing of existing goods for materials.
Such sacrifice allowing the creation of new items.
This develops opinion and conflict between the desire for personal goods and the public needs of the node.
Will you need to sacrifice all those peace time goods and tools to create war time weapons and armour ?
Will you prefer scientific machines instead and depend on technology to protect you.
Will you create shrines to the gods to obtain their favour and protection ?
Is that furniture and luxury goods, something that must be sacrificed ?
Aside from that I was thinking about the decay cycle too.
We know stuff breaks and can be repair.
We know items can be deconstructed into materials.
But could there also be a way to replenish the resource nodes ?
It made me think about the ancient tradition of making offerings to the gods.
So perhaps this could be a mechanism to replace the material nodes, through items that are no longer wanted or needed.
Anyway. Just my typical ponderings.
What are you thoughts on these finite resources ?
We have been told that resources are finite.
That resource nodes will expire.
That equipment will decay and break.
Many people seems to have ignored the elephant in the room. At some point material will run out.
Many have even said/assumed new material nodes will pop up. But I think this may well be wrong.
We live in a throw away society where we replace everything with new.
I earlier times this was neither practical nor realistic.
Much of what was used would be recycled or repurposed.
Which kind of gave me a possible answer to this finite conundrum.
Those material nodes will be a bank or reservoir of all available materials.
Once of them across the world have been found and exploited their depletion will be final.
So what then ? Now you choose what you value most.
Now you sacrifice that which is precious to gain an alternative reward.
Now the nodes survival may very well depend on the sacrifice and repurposing of existing goods for materials.
Such sacrifice allowing the creation of new items.
This develops opinion and conflict between the desire for personal goods and the public needs of the node.
Will you need to sacrifice all those peace time goods and tools to create war time weapons and armour ?
Will you prefer scientific machines instead and depend on technology to protect you.
Will you create shrines to the gods to obtain their favour and protection ?
Is that furniture and luxury goods, something that must be sacrificed ?
Aside from that I was thinking about the decay cycle too.
We know stuff breaks and can be repair.
We know items can be deconstructed into materials.
But could there also be a way to replenish the resource nodes ?
It made me think about the ancient tradition of making offerings to the gods.
So perhaps this could be a mechanism to replace the material nodes, through items that are no longer wanted or needed.
Anyway. Just my typical ponderings.
What are you thoughts on these finite resources ?
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Comments
I'm not gonna answer all the questions you "ask", but more over give a general idea of my standings. I feel finite ressourses would be a fun and different experience, but it is also very dangerous (gameplay vice). It might destroy the gameplay completely or it will add a new glorious level.
A combination of finite and infinite ressourse would be nice. Some ressourses would be infinite if managed properly, some might not no matter what. To me it also depends on the game; can I keep digging a tunnel to go deeper no matter what, or will I be limited to on land iron-nodes. It also depends on thing like can you recycle items, will they be destroyed completely, what are the best materials etc.
About godly interference I would say its almost overused, instead let us clear a minor dungeon for new ressourse nodes or something, don't let it be "sacrifice and get reward"-style.
But thats just my two-cents on the matter, have a good evening :)
Yes. You might be right on a balance between finite (non-renewable) and infinite (renewable) being best.
It was actually a response to <ul>
steven </ul>
saying resource nodes 'WILL' be finite and trying to come to terms with it.
Not a personal wish list.
That is how they worked in Star Wars Galaxies.... Such and Such Iron/Mineral would spawn on certain planets. Upon using a Survey device tool you could locate where certain locations had a higher % based production rate of that Material. Then you could put down harvesters to harvest it and also hand sample it in small amounts.
The mineral depending on the type would last anywhere from a couple days to 2 or 3 weeks before it despawned.
Now, to keep in mind.... That Mineral that spawned would have such and such stats on that specific mineral "lets say server Best."
If it re-spawned a month down the road or 6 months down the road then it could either have higher or lower stats than the previous spawn.
With stuff going on like that it requires your main attention to get as much of the resource as possible in the random limited amount of time it was available to everyone because who knows when it would spawn again and or rather if it will have better stats than the previous. Each server was also different with mineral spawns.
With that type of spawning, it helps people create shops to sell items and resources. As time goes on, that resource in the economy will deplenish because it is being used for said items via crafting. This can also drive the price up or down for that resource or item.
One of the best things about Star Wars Galaxies though was its Material spawns and crafting system. Most old players who've played the newer MMO's unlike my self still vouche for that system that SWG had when it came to Mats and the crafting system. It was superior.
I am just going to assume certain materials like coal/oil/iron/aluminum/Ore and such will be a random spawn which will again pop back up. One deep question I do have about resources is rather or not they will have different types of specific stats each time they may or may not pop back up right away?
A good example of different stats of that same resource would be a Tree. I am using an example from Vanguard now....
You start chopping such said tree down, but each time you got a piece of the tree during the cutting process their was I believe about 4 or 6 different types of tree from that single tree. Each piece or type with that stat could craft lower end to higher end items. You could be swinging your axe and get a piece of "deciduous wood" swing a few more times and get the next piece and it could be "petrified wood."
One more thing to keep in mind is, in certain areas of Vanguard the best wood you could get "Petrified" would be found near a forest or what ever that had higher end mobs. In a higher end mob area you had a better chance of getting a piece of "Petrified" wood off that tree than you would cutting down trees near lower end mob areas.
On the SWG mechanics you describe, I think I may have been able to deduce whats going on with the whole game design.
Which is related to what you say, but not quite the same.
I would say the system you describe is far too shallow in comparison to this.
But that's an opinion.
We know that the harder you push, the more the world fights back.
We know that your nodes will be attacked and I think, resources lost.
Clearly the world does not want us there, but is it merely because of our presence, or because we are plundering its wealth ?
Here in lies the beauty of the whole system.
Its a balanced equation.
X of one resource
Y of another resource
Z of another resource
These resource can exist either out in the worlds possession (a resource bank), hidden in resource nodes or....
...in the possession of the invaders being used to craft all manner of items.
The world wants total possession of the resources. The players want total possession of the resources.
Here in lies the root of the conflict between the world and the people.
Here in lies the progressively more extreme measures the node takes to destroy 'civilisation'.
It wants its damn stuff back.
But there is also a problem with the gatherer profession.
If goods run out and everything is recycled, they become obsolete.
I don't think steven would risk the wrath of everyone in the gathering profession suddenly becoming redundant.
So...there must be a way to replenish raw materials.
But how can you do that if they are locked into goods ?
Recycling only makes the materials available...it doesn't replenish any gatherer nodes.
Stuff breaking doesn't suddenly vanish....it can be repaired. Node material there.
So the only option I see is the ability to directly give back any goods (broken or unwanted) to the world.
This mechanism must exist to allow the equation to balance and the finite system to work.
Thus the only option I can see is votive offerings.
This means the gods are directly involved with the conflict between the world and the people.
And we know this to be true because its states,
.... will you remember the old gods or try the sword instead ?
In regard facing off the challenge of the worlds aggression toward you.
Consumables do vanish into thin air once used.
So any material associated with their production would also return to the world bank kind of thing.
Not that you will be eating iron....unless you're Scottish.
I HIGHLY doubt that resources will be finite as you posit here</ul>
. Instead like A_Chaos_G said, they’ll respawn somewhere else. The interesting thing is that you can look at this on different scales. On the smallest scale, you might set your homestead down near a resource, but it won’t be there forever. You’ll either have to try to uproot yourself or go farther away to find what you need. At the large scale, the region that you’re in might be famous for having a certain resource, but over time the spawning might shift to a nearby zone. The impacts of such a shift would vary widely based upon the player politics for that area. It also encourages the caravan system.
[/quote]
I will simply park this here and let you find the elephant in the room....
The state of the world is determined by our Node System. It’s through this system that players determine how civilization evolves, and it’s through this system that our world determines how to react.
Every zone is made up of multiple Nodes, and each Node has a Zone of Influence. As players adventure and complete their day-to-day goals, their experience is being captured by a Node through its Zone of Influence. As players level up, so do these Nodes
More player activity results in more civilization, bringing with it new quests, events, and services that players can take advantage of.
Every leader is ultimately bound by their economies, which are local to their region. There is no global auction house, and *****resources don’t exist in unlimited supply*****
Some regions might have too much iron, others not enough, and thus trade routes will be brokered and fought over. The transport of goods is an essential facet of our game, and though dangerous and fraught with risk, the health of the Node depends on it.
It depends on it, because the world doesn’t appreciate civilization. Something dark and terrible happened long ago to wipe it from the face of this planet, and now that civilization has returned, those dark things stir again.
Can you remember the names of the gods that once were, and invoke their aid? Or will you erase their memory from history and take up the sword yourself?
https://www.kickstarter.com
So it doesn't sound like there's a true finite about of, say, iron, in the planet.
But iron scarcity in one area of the world will make commerce an interesting play, which I think is the idea :)
Metropolis will not have the resources to sustain itself and be reliant on trade/caravans.