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Intrepids stance on hacking?

Sorry, but i gotta ask. I used to sit by the spawn in point in ESO battlegrounds and wait for enemy PvPers who had "accidentally" found they could spawn in an enemy's camp and PK ppl who thought they were there to craft. I reported these players names numerous times and weeks later these players were still PKn behind enemy lines where they weren't supposed to be. Glitching land and bugs isn't funny..It's subscription breaking.

Comments

  • [quote quote=16553]Sorry, but i gotta ask. I used to sit by the spawn in point in ESO battlegrounds and wait for enemy PvPers who had “accidentally” found they could spawn in an enemy’s camp and PK ppl who thought they were there to craft. I reported these players names numerous times and weeks later these players were still PKn behind enemy lines where they weren’t supposed to be. Glitching land and bugs isn’t funny..It’s subscription breaking.

    [/quote]

    Hacking and exploiting will always be a problem , but unlike in ESO, pvp in AOC is going to be a lot more important to the game and the people playing it. Cheaters will be called out by a lot more players in a game, I have no doubt about that.
  • While you will never stop hacking or exploiting completely, what they can do is keep a watchful eye and make they they have plenty of active GMs to take care of things. The devs have said that they will have GMs on the lookout but obviously their effectiveness will depend on who they hire for the job.
  • My only hope is that they will have a zero-tolerance policy regardless of the impact of the exploit/hack/script whatever that is unintentional. Some of the exploits won't be obvious to us so issuing bans after a global warning would be fair imo.(while removing everything gained from such exploits)

    I've seen so many games with grey areas that are larger than their game world and it's one of the things that kill games slowly but surely.
  • [quote quote=16638]My only hope is that they will have a zero-tolerance policy regardless of the impact of the exploit/hack/script whatever that is unintentional. Some of the exploits won’t be obvious to us so issuing bans after a global warning would be fair imo.(while removing everything gained from such exploits)

    I’ve seen so many games with grey areas that are larger than their game world and it’s one of the things that kill games slowly but surely.

    [/quote]

    Quite right. One of my biggest problems with Blizzard was the inconsistency with which they handled game exploitation. Some times they would issue suspensions, other times perma-bans and other times nothing at all. Of course you need to tailor the punishment to fit the crime, but even so, some of their decisions were very questionable over the years.
  • You can't really ban someone for taking the shortcut in a dungeon but you could strip away their gains and also issue a fraction. (3 fractions in a month= suspension) I think that would be fair.

    The fact that some players spend a lot on the cash shop shouldn't make them immune to penalties.
  • Towards the end of my sub with ESO it was just stupid.I got most of my kills simply waiting for enemy players to zone in.Watching rangers (yes I said it) walk across the sky got frustrating.
  • I think there's a very good chance AOC will take a much more active approach to hackers then most mmos. With the creative director being a mmo player and guild leader himself I think he'll know first hand just how bad hackers are for mmos
  • We should have a dedicated group or guild to fight hackers and such while the developers and such do their thing. If that's a possibility, I would so help out! It's always been my dream since watching .hack//sign (anime) to work with the developers in a semi-official capacity to do tasks like helping new players, stop hackers, etc.

    P.S. If you look up Silver Knight from the series, you'll get a better understanding on what I was trying to say mew. >v<
  • there are two types of hackers, subtle and all-out hackers. subtle hackers will just hack in great gear, good stats, etc. something archievable properly. it'll be tough for players to find them, but considerably easier for devs, if they are watching.
    all-out hackers just don't give a shit, they'll hack like 10* max attack blah blah blah. these guys are easily caught by, because endless gold and crazy high attack is like a dead giveaway.
  • [quote quote=16638]My only hope is that they will have a zero-tolerance policy regardless of the impact of the exploit/hack/script whatever that is unintentional. Some of the exploits won’t be obvious to us so issuing bans after a global warning would be fair imo.(while removing everything gained from such exploits)

    I’ve seen so many games with grey areas that are larger than their game world and it’s one of the things that kill games slowly but surely.

    [/quote]

    Never fear, there will be a highly active GM community. It should be very easy to report violations and have them investigate quickly. The reply was to RMT and such, but that's as illegal as hacking and botting for US gaming companies, sometimes more so.

    [quote]24:55 How will you guys prevent p2w via gold seller player to player trading?

    Steven:
    Outside of the standard mmo security mechanics that involve, algorithms and flagging accounts that have nonstandard action. <strong>We plan to have a very active gm community that will be proactive in preventing RMT, botting, spamming in chat, all that kind of stuff. </strong>It is something we haven't seen in most recent mmos for some reasons. I don't know why we moved away from active GMs, but that's something I feel very strongly about that GMs should be proactive in servers and stuff. Which means, yes, there will be a higher costs associated for customer service from that standpoint, but at the same time if you build up a subscription model game those are the types of things you can do.[/quote]
  • [quote quote=16638]My only hope is that they will have a zero-tolerance policy regardless of the impact of the exploit/hack/script whatever that is unintentional. Some of the exploits won’t be obvious to us so issuing bans after a global warning would be fair imo.(while removing everything gained from such exploits)

    I’ve seen so many games with grey areas that are larger than their game world and it’s one of the things that kill games slowly but surely.

    [/quote]

    Never fear. There will be a highly active GM community. It should be easy to report offenders and have them quickly investigate.

    [quote]24:55 How will you guys prevent p2w via gold seller player to player trading?

    Steven:
    Outside of the standard mmo security mechanics that involve, algorithms and flagging accounts that have nonstandard action. <strong>We plan to have a very active gm community that will be proactive in preventing RMT, botting, spamming in chat, all that kind of stuff. </strong>It is something we haven't seen in most recent mmos for some reasons. I don't know why we moved away from active GMs, but that's something I feel very strongly about that GMs should be proactive in servers and stuff. Which means, yes, there will be a higher costs associated for customer service from that standpoint, but at the same time if you build up a subscription model game those are the types of things you can do.[/quote]
  • Ban hammers unite!

    Exploiter was crit comboed by several GMs at once for several millions damage. His spirit needs to recover for 350 years to be able to respawn.
  • Well I can say this for certain. when I reported hackers and people exploiting terrain glitches in ESO and then saw them a week later, a little piece of my loyalty to their brand died and eventually I had no interest at all. In Neverwinter when people exploited the market and hacked making legendary stuff, it cheapened everything and a little piece of my love for the game died til there was no more.
  • It really depends on what intrepid have up there sleeves for taking down hackers . it just comes down to what Gms can do n whats in place on the servers, plus it would be funny if they ever made a actual ban hammer just for shits n giggles.
  • I'm imagining- a hammer suddenly comes out of the ground and smashes the player.
    or maybe we can have like a grim reaper. does the work well, chop chop.
  • In any community with rules needing to be enforced and non-omniscient enforcers, reporting infractions is all that can really be done. Hacking/exploiting is an arms race that gets very complicated very quickly. One of the greatest things about a game where players are given so much agency by the developers is that, for it to work, the developers need to respond to player needs.

    Honestly, I think it's one of the more clever ideas behind Ashes. It marks a clear distinction between developers and designers, and lets players in where they do belong in the creative process--the design process. I'm sure we can work together to figure out what will be most effective to mitigate threats we see, and pass that information on for Intrepid to action as developers.

    Being gamers themselves, we should see the player community's interests held in high regard. In other games, actioning accounts can be a slow process because the effect on other player's experiences is usually pretty minimal. In Ashes, a sense of urgency will need to be employed to prevent problems, as the game's core design is to make the player's choice meaningful.
  • I would like to see instant suspension with sub on hold for potentially game breaking problems.
    Pending further investigation.
    Maybe a max suspension of 7 days, at which point the player is banned or reinstated.

    Whatever they do, the rules need to be blantant, in your face and non negotiable.
  • I also forgot to add that players filling up a report feature with false reports is in itself an exploitation of mechanics if reports are all personally reviewed.

    There will need to be a deterrent to using a report feature capriciously, if that's the route Intrepid intends to go. Otherwise it's wasted resources sifting through false reports. I think, generally, that most report features don't get false reports, but all it takes is a little bit of noise to have a large effect on that kind of system's efficiency.

    In a way, making it a true "task" to report behavior in itself is a deterrent to false reports. As frustrating as that may be on the player side when there truly is an issue, it needs to be a measured balance in that kind of process.
  • Once you have an active game, you conceivably have <em>millions</em> of potential hackers/cheaters/bot creators. Why is this important? Well, let's say that one -- just one -- cheater happens to be botting around a node. Now, we know the nodes can change and grow, so that'll be a chore in itself, harvesting whatever in any kinda loop will be effed up when the node expands, or when it's under siege, or when the weather changes things ... but still. Let's stick with that one botter. And then let's talk about we eagle-eyed players who see this and report it ... how many do you think that'll be? Let's keep it small, and say an even dozen.

    So. Multiple nodes, one botter per, and then dozens of reports. Then expand that by the entire game world, and every conceivable form of cheating/botting that can happen. In short, the problem becomes monumental. I think it would help if they have some form of coordinate system in place for each report; this means they could easily filter through all the reports and combine reports into one group per node, or per whatever, then filter through all of those to find the common element(s). I don't believe this could occur over less than a couple of days.

    Then a GM or algorithm or other such must be unleashed to go investigate, because (yep, had it happen) sometimes players report someone actively gathering/etc ... and they'll need to confirm this. Then decide the penalty, then lay in that penalty.

    I'm pretty sure Intrepid is looking at all the usual and customary methods of handling these things, but I'd also lay money that they're looking at some out-of-the-box options, as well. Me? I'll be happy to sit back and see how they handle it, before I start proclaiming gloom and doom. Also, for games that actively do strike back, there is a period of time while they get their systems "up" to doing what needs to be done.

    TL:DR? Give'em time, let's wait & see what their approach is ... then we'll see what direction we, the players, need to move in to respond and, potentially, help rather than hinder.
  • I think most people interested in this game enough to be here would like to see the studio actively combat game exploits. Hackers ruin the feel of the game and just sour the experience for everyone except themselves.
  • In a more general term, in Stevens own words  Source: Discord QnA

    24:55 How will you guys prevent p2w via gold seller player to player trading?

    Steven:
    Outside of the standard mmo security mechanics that involve, algorithms and flagging accounts that have nonstandard action. We plan to have a very active gm community that will be proactive in preventing RMT, botting, spamming in chat, all that kind of stuff. It is something we haven't seen in most recent mmos for some reasons. I don't know why we moved away from active GMs, but that's something I feel very strongly about that GMs should be proactive in servers and stuff. Which means, yes, there will be a higher costs associated for customer service from that standpoint, but at the same time if you build up a subscription model game those are the types of things you can do.


  • As long as everything goes as stated you shouldn't see as much hacking/botting/gold selling. In a sub only environment you just make it economically worthless to the gold seller for example. They have to buy the game, pay the sub, get in game, spam their message, get account blocked or banned. The developers have software that can track large gold transfers or characters who amass stupidly large amounts, investigate, and lock said accounts. So while they may create accounts just to spam their message, and have another character account where they store their gold to transfer to others, it can be detected and tracked. The problem with ESO and others is that they started out as sub only game that would said "We will never be f2p or p2win!" but ended up converting from a sub only system to f2p in under a year in most cases. Once you have account creation with no monetary cost, you get the hack/spam flood. If you have an exploiter who is showing up just to ruin everyone elses day who knows that they can get banned/suspended, when it costs them real world scratch, it drops significantly.
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