Glorious Alpha Two Testers!
Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Endgame PvE crowd.
Now, when people say "endgame" in the mmo universe they automatically pin you as a WoW player. Its not true. I played extensively Endgame content in multiple MMO's including WoW. Thousands of hours put into raids/speedruns in, ESO, SWTOR and WoW.
The one thing that I truly want to ask is "will you leave us hanging". What I mean by this is will you leave us with one raid for 3-4 months on end? How big of an impact will endgame PvE have on the living world? Will the rewards be meaningful and the content diffuclt?
I ask because other MMOs usually burn their endgame crowd. I hope this wont be the same!
The one thing that I truly want to ask is "will you leave us hanging". What I mean by this is will you leave us with one raid for 3-4 months on end? How big of an impact will endgame PvE have on the living world? Will the rewards be meaningful and the content diffuclt?
I ask because other MMOs usually burn their endgame crowd. I hope this wont be the same!
0
Comments
The one thing that I truly want to ask is “will you leave us hanging”. What I mean by this is will you leave us with one raid for 3-4 months on end? How big of an impact will endgame PvE have on the living world? Will the rewards be meaningful and the content diffuclt?
I ask because other MMOs usually burn their endgame crowd. I hope this wont be the same!
[/quote]
Please don't take my following comments as an insult, or a dig, because they're not meant as such. Merely my perspective.
I don't think it's MMO developer's burning out "end gamers", but "end gamers" themselves. What I mean by that is, end gamers are usually in such a rush to see who can be the first, and fastest, to clear certain milestone objectives (clearing dungeons, obtaining epic loot, etc), that once they speed run through everything, they run out of content to devour, and leave until more content comes out, rinse-repeat. Just my opinion.
The one thing that I truly want to ask is “will you leave us hanging”. What I mean by this is will you leave us with one raid for 3-4 months on end? How big of an impact will endgame PvE have on the living world? Will the rewards be meaningful and the content diffuclt?
I ask because other MMOs usually burn their endgame crowd. I hope this wont be the same!
[/quote]
Well AOC is a completely different game to your usual thempark mmo like the games you mentioned. The "Endgame"is what you the player decides what it is. They are not designing the game to be rushed through so you can get to the good stuff at the end. You are free to chose how to spend your time as to opposed to be being told where to go and being lead around. The Nodes are the primary gameplay , you develop them , build them up , expand them or lose them and start again. Seems the big npc monsters will be player controlled during Node Events, not sure if traditional raiding will be in this game or not. Players interact with each other and tell a story through those interactions , you can do this from the get go as soon as you log in for the first time.
The goal is to have an ever-evolving, dynamic story due the node system.
Once that settles, players will enjoy a time of crafting, exploring, doing dungeons, raids and events all in the interests of gearing and building. Then the node wars will start and beyond that, it'll be up to the developers to keep things interesting and new.
At least, this is how most games have gone for as long as I can remember.
Any game that minimises fast travel and encourages you to take your time, actually read quests and storylines, enjoy being part of a world and take the time to explore the content gets my vote. The pleasure in the game should be the journey as you progress, not just a rush to max everything out otherwise you may as well do away with levels 1-49 and just start everyone a level 50 with a selection of raids, full kit and skills and be done with it *yawn*
If the resources are finite, as the devs seem to indicate, then we will eventually have to go exploring to find a fresh node to rebuild... and hope the experiences in the new region are as thrilling as they were originally.
[quote quote=16768]We will not have WOW like end game where you raid for gear. Raids will be there but most of the drops will be for mats that will help you make crafted gear. This is a Sandbox MMORPG and WOW like Raid progression is not in a Sandbox MMORPG because the game focuses more on Open world content. Again there will be PVE content for sure BUT again Dont think WOW with it. Think more hard content that requires people for the fun, mats, and gold.
[/quote]
Pretty sure Steven said there will be instanced raids and dungeons that drop gear equal to crafted gear.. they are going for a viable mix with both dungeon/raid gear and crafted gear. Crafters will be important though to repair the gear, and ofc craft it.
The raids will also be challenging with complex mechanics (also his words) sounds pretty similar to end game raiding we've seen in other MMOs.
<blockquote>
<div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/endgame-pve-crowd/#post-16768" rel="nofollow">Helzbelz wrote:</a></div>
We will not have WOW like end game where you raid for gear. Raids will be there but most of the drops will be for mats that will help you make crafted gear. This is a Sandbox MMORPG and WOW like Raid progression is not in a Sandbox MMORPG because the game focuses more on Open world content. Again there will be PVE content for sure BUT again Dont think WOW with it. Think more hard content that requires people for the fun, mats, and gold.
</blockquote>
Pretty sure Steven said there will be instanced raids and dungeons that drop gear equal to crafted gear.. they are going for a viable mix with both dungeon/raid gear and crafted gear. Crafters will be important though to repair the gear, and ofc craft it.
[/quote]
Yeah, heard the same. Though, no hard numbers on the rate% of dungeon/raid acquired pieces of gear. I also think, and I stress <em>THINK</em>, there was something mentioned that entire sets of gear were not going to available in dungeons/raids. Meaning that, if you lucked up, and got a nice chest piece, don't expect to find matching pieces while dungeon delving. You'll have to have an armorer make the accompanying pieces.
I was wondering about the details about durability, and repairs. I'm guessing that the more damaged your gear is, the more money/materials it will take to repair it. And, if it breaks, then either the item is lost, or it will just take a relatively extreme amount on investment to repair it. Also, the lvl of the smith fixing it, must at least be equal to the quality of the item. All guess work, though.
<div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/endgame-pve-crowd/#post-17331" rel="nofollow">QviZik wrote:</a></div>
All I known
<blockquote>
<div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/endgame-pve-crowd/#post-16768" rel="nofollow">Helzbelz wrote:</a></div>
We will not have WOW like end game where you raid for gear. Raids will be there but most of the drops will be for mats that will help you make crafted gear. This is a Sandbox MMORPG and WOW like Raid progression is not in a Sandbox MMORPG because the game focuses more on Open world content. Again there will be PVE content for sure BUT again Dont think WOW with it. Think more hard content that requires people for the fun, mats, and gold.
</blockquote>
Pretty sure Steven said there will be instanced raids and dungeons that drop gear equal to crafted gear.. they are going for a viable mix with both dungeon/raid gear and crafted gear. Crafters will be important though to repair the gear, and ofc craft it.
</blockquote>
Yeah, heard the same. Though, no hard numbers on the rate% of dungeon/raid acquired pieces of gear. I also think, and I stress <em>THINK</em>, there was something mentioned that entire sets of gear were not going to available in dungeons/raids. Meaning that, if you lucked up, and got a nice chest piece, don’t expect to find matching pieces while dungeon delving. You’ll have to have an armorer make the accompanying pieces.
I was wondering about the details about durability, and repairs. I’m guessing that the more damaged your gear is, the more money/materials it will take to repair it. And, if it breaks, then either the item is lost, or it will just take a relatively extreme amount on investment to repair it. Also, the lvl of the smith fixing it, must at least be equal to the quality of the item. All guess work, though.
[/quote]
Yes the loot table will be affected based on how the node has developed. So we can get quest starters, crafting material and items. In the end they will lead to gear though.
Yes we don't know everything about that yet and everything is subject to change. We do know gear will brake down and crafters will be needed to repair them for the best result l.
<div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/endgame-pve-crowd/#post-17331" rel="nofollow">QviZik wrote:</a></div>
All I known
<blockquote>
<div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/endgame-pve-crowd/#post-16768" rel="nofollow">Helzbelz wrote:</a></div>
We will not have WOW like end game where you raid for gear. Raids will be there but most of the drops will be for mats that will help you make crafted gear. This is a Sandbox MMORPG and WOW like Raid progression is not in a Sandbox MMORPG because the game focuses more on Open world content. Again there will be PVE content for sure BUT again Dont think WOW with it. Think more hard content that requires people for the fun, mats, and gold.
</blockquote>
Pretty sure Steven said there will be instanced raids and dungeons that drop gear equal to crafted gear.. they are going for a viable mix with both dungeon/raid gear and crafted gear. Crafters will be important though to repair the gear, and ofc craft it.
</blockquote>
Yeah, heard the same. Though, no hard numbers on the rate% of dungeon/raid acquired pieces of gear. I also think, and I stress <em>THINK</em>, there was something mentioned that entire sets of gear were not going to available in dungeons/raids. Meaning that, if you lucked up, and got a nice chest piece, don’t expect to find matching pieces while dungeon delving. You’ll have to have an armorer make the accompanying pieces.
I was wondering about the details about durability, and repairs. I’m guessing that the more damaged your gear is, the more money/materials it will take to repair it. And, if it breaks, then either the item is lost, or it will just take a relatively extreme amount on investment to repair it. Also, the lvl of the smith fixing it, must at least be equal to the quality of the item. All guess work, though.
[/quote]
The loot table will be affected by the node development, so we can get everything from items, crafting materials to quest starting item that will all lead to gear in th end.
Yes all we've heard about items durability is that items will break and crafters will be needed to repair them. We'll probably hear more later and everything is subjective to change.
<div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/endgame-pve-crowd/#post-17331" rel="nofollow">QviZik wrote:</a></div>
All I known
<blockquote>
<div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/endgame-pve-crowd/#post-16768" rel="nofollow">Helzbelz wrote:</a></div>
We will not have WOW like end game where you raid for gear. Raids will be there but most of the drops will be for mats that will help you make crafted gear. This is a Sandbox MMORPG and WOW like Raid progression is not in a Sandbox MMORPG because the game focuses more on Open world content. Again there will be PVE content for sure BUT again Dont think WOW with it. Think more hard content that requires people for the fun, mats, and gold.
</blockquote>
Pretty sure Steven said there will be instanced raids and dungeons that drop gear equal to crafted gear.. they are going for a viable mix with both dungeon/raid gear and crafted gear. Crafters will be important though to repair the gear, and ofc craft it.
</blockquote>
Yeah, heard the same. Though, no hard numbers on the rate% of dungeon/raid acquired pieces of gear. I also think, and I stress <em>THINK</em>, there was something mentioned that entire sets of gear were not going to available in dungeons/raids. Meaning that, if you lucked up, and got a nice chest piece, don’t expect to find matching pieces while dungeon delving. You’ll have to have an armorer make the accompanying pieces.
I was wondering about the details about durability, and repairs. I’m guessing that the more damaged your gear is, the more money/materials it will take to repair it. And, if it breaks, then either the item is lost, or it will just take a relatively extreme amount on investment to repair it. Also, the lvl of the smith fixing it, must at least be equal to the quality of the item. All guess work, though.
[/quote]
Yes the node development will affect the loot tables. So we can get everything from crafting materials to items and quest starters. In the end they will all result in gear. I really like that system, even if we do the same thing with more stages.
Yeah about item durability and repair we only know that items will break and crafters will be needed to repair them. We'll learn more when they are further into the development. As it is now everything can change.
Haven't read the reply to this statement, but I had to say, I must concur with what you wrote above. Take GW2, for example. Initially the game was sold under the theory that "We want the entire game to be endgame," so it had no raids. The busy little bees rushed through the content, rather than <em>experiencing</em> the content, then got pissed because "that's all?"
It happens lots, and it's crazy, imo, to think that a game should be beholden to a person's desire to GO GO GO GO GO! when there are others who're like "Oh, wow, this story is epic!"
The dream has always been to be able to ever quest -new quests- not repeat the same quests ad infinitum.
We just haven't had the tech.
<div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/endgame-pve-crowd/#post-17336" rel="nofollow">freespiryt wrote:</a></div>
<blockquote>
<div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/endgame-pve-crowd/#post-17331" rel="nofollow">QviZik wrote:</a></div>
All I known
<blockquote>
<div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/endgame-pve-crowd/#post-16768" rel="nofollow">Helzbelz wrote:</a></div>
We will not have WOW like end game where you raid for gear. Raids will be there but most of the drops will be for mats that will help you make crafted gear. This is a Sandbox MMORPG and WOW like Raid progression is not in a Sandbox MMORPG because the game focuses more on Open world content. Again there will be PVE content for sure BUT again Dont think WOW with it. Think more hard content that requires people for the fun, mats, and gold.
</blockquote>
Pretty sure Steven said there will be instanced raids and dungeons that drop gear equal to crafted gear.. they are going for a viable mix with both dungeon/raid gear and crafted gear. Crafters will be important though to repair the gear, and ofc craft it.
</blockquote>
Yeah, heard the same. Though, no hard numbers on the rate% of dungeon/raid acquired pieces of gear. I also think, and I stress <em>THINK</em>, there was something mentioned that entire sets of gear were not going to available in dungeons/raids. Meaning that, if you lucked up, and got a nice chest piece, don’t expect to find matching pieces while dungeon delving. You’ll have to have an armorer make the accompanying pieces.
I was wondering about the details about durability, and repairs. I’m guessing that the more damaged your gear is, the more money/materials it will take to repair it. And, if it breaks, then either the item is lost, or it will just take a relatively extreme amount on investment to repair it. Also, the lvl of the smith fixing it, must at least be equal to the quality of the item. All guess work, though.
</blockquote>
Yes the node development will affect the loot tables. So we can get everything from crafting materials to items and quest starters. In the end they will all result in gear. I really like that system, even if we do the same thing with more stages.
Yeah about item durability and repair we only know that items will break and crafters will be needed to repair them. We’ll learn more when they are further into the development. As it is now everything can change.
[/quote]
Yes there will be instances and raids but it will not be raids for Gear like WOW. Yes you will get gear but the main focus of the instances will be for high end mats for crafting. Not a Tiered raiding system. They already talked about gear not being a tiered system in one of their videos. So it will not be like WOW in that sense. Yea you will have instances but there will be a different focus on it than other MMORPGs.
I saw somewhere that repairing fully broken gear will take the equivalent mats to create it in the first place.
<div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/endgame-pve-crowd/#post-17336" rel="nofollow">freespiryt wrote:</a></div>
I was wondering about the details about durability, and repairs. I’m guessing that the more damaged your gear is, the more money/materials it will take to repair it. And, if it breaks, then either the item is lost, or it will just take a relatively extreme amount on investment to repair it. Also, the lvl of the smith fixing it, must at least be equal to the quality of the item. All guess work, though.
</blockquote>
I saw somewhere that repairing fully broken gear will take the equivalent mats to create it in the first place.
[/quote]
Yes but the question is would it be cheaper to just buy a new item that is just as good or the same quality as the one you have rather than gathering the mats.
<div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/endgame-pve-crowd/page/2/#post-17474" rel="nofollow">Sarill wrote:</a></div>
<blockquote>
<div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/endgame-pve-crowd/#post-17336" rel="nofollow">freespiryt wrote:</a></div>
I was wondering about the details about durability, and repairs. I’m guessing that the more damaged your gear is, the more money/materials it will take to repair it. And, if it breaks, then either the item is lost, or it will just take a relatively extreme amount on investment to repair it. Also, the lvl of the smith fixing it, must at least be equal to the quality of the item. All guess work, though.
</blockquote>
I saw somewhere that repairing fully broken gear will take the equivalent mats to create it in the first place.
</blockquote>
Yes but the question is would it be cheaper to just buy a new item that is just as good or the same quality as the one you have rather than gathering the mats.
[/quote]
It has already been stated that some items are not craftable so those might be worth repairing. It sound like the devs want players to be constantly having to work at keeping gear up and making cost/benefit decisions about gear. It will also give people who like crafting/gathering some way to provide benefits to the world instead of just themselves. I am hoping for a robust economy to be able to be sustained in AOC. I am already anticipating being able to open my own shop in the game.
<div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/endgame-pve-crowd/page/2/#post-17480" rel="nofollow">Helzbelz wrote:</a></div>
<blockquote>
<div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/endgame-pve-crowd/page/2/#post-17474" rel="nofollow">Sarill wrote:</a></div>
<blockquote>
<div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/endgame-pve-crowd/#post-17336" rel="nofollow">freespiryt wrote:</a></div>
I was wondering about the details about durability, and repairs. I’m guessing that the more damaged your gear is, the more money/materials it will take to repair it. And, if it breaks, then either the item is lost, or it will just take a relatively extreme amount on investment to repair it. Also, the lvl of the smith fixing it, must at least be equal to the quality of the item. All guess work, though.
</blockquote>
I saw somewhere that repairing fully broken gear will take the equivalent mats to create it in the first place.
</blockquote>
Yes but the question is would it be cheaper to just buy a new item that is just as good or the same quality as the one you have rather than gathering the mats.
</blockquote>
It has already been stated that some items are not craftable so those might be worth repairing. It sound like the devs want players to be constantly having to work at keeping gear up and making cost/benefit decisions about gear. It will also give people who like crafting/gathering some way to provide benefits to the world instead of just themselves. I am hoping for a robust economy to be able to be sustained in AOC. I am already anticipating being able to open my own shop in the game.
[/quote]
I personally like the idea of having no unique non craftable gear. The reason being then you can have item decay where stuff goes away for good and forced players to keep buying new gear. Thats how SWG worked and it was great having my shop up. I always had credits for what ever I wanted to do.
<div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/endgame-pve-crowd/#post-17348" rel="nofollow">QviZik wrote:</a></div>
<blockquote>
<div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/endgame-pve-crowd/#post-17336" rel="nofollow">freespiryt wrote:</a></div>
<blockquote>
<div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/endgame-pve-crowd/#post-17331" rel="nofollow">QviZik wrote:</a></div>
All I known
<blockquote>
<div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/endgame-pve-crowd/#post-16768" rel="nofollow">Helzbelz wrote:</a></div>
We will not have WOW like end game where you raid for gear. Raids will be there but most of the drops will be for mats that will help you make crafted gear. This is a Sandbox MMORPG and WOW like Raid progression is not in a Sandbox MMORPG because the game focuses more on Open world content. Again there will be PVE content for sure BUT again Dont think WOW with it. Think more hard content that requires people for the fun, mats, and gold.
</blockquote>
Pretty sure Steven said there will be instanced raids and dungeons that drop gear equal to crafted gear.. they are going for a viable mix with both dungeon/raid gear and crafted gear. Crafters will be important though to repair the gear, and ofc craft it.
</blockquote>
Yeah, heard the same. Though, no hard numbers on the rate% of dungeon/raid acquired pieces of gear. I also think, and I stress <em>THINK</em>, there was something mentioned that entire sets of gear were not going to available in dungeons/raids. Meaning that, if you lucked up, and got a nice chest piece, don’t expect to find matching pieces while dungeon delving. You’ll have to have an armorer make the accompanying pieces.
I was wondering about the details about durability, and repairs. I’m guessing that the more damaged your gear is, the more money/materials it will take to repair it. And, if it breaks, then either the item is lost, or it will just take a relatively extreme amount on investment to repair it. Also, the lvl of the smith fixing it, must at least be equal to the quality of the item. All guess work, though.
</blockquote>
Yes the node development will affect the loot tables. So we can get everything from crafting materials to items and quest starters. In the end they will all result in gear. I really like that system, even if we do the same thing with more stages.
Yeah about item durability and repair we only know that items will break and crafters will be needed to repair them. We’ll learn more when they are further into the development. As it is now everything can change.
</blockquote>
Yes there will be instances and raids but it will not be raids for Gear like WOW. Yes you will get gear but the main focus of the instances will be for high end mats for crafting. Not a Tiered raiding system. They already talked about gear not being a tiered system in one of their videos. So it will not be like WOW in that sense. Yea you will have instances but there will be a different focus on it than other MMORPGs.
[/quote]
The loot tables will be affected based on how the node has developed. If it's scientific we might see more crafting oriented rewards but if it's military based we might see different rewards. In the end all these rewards lead to the same thing, gear that improves your character, and a progression of the story, not unlike other MMOs just in a different presentation (which is welcome).
So yes AoC raiding will reward gear just like other MMOs, only with more steps in between and that's not a bad thing. My point was AoC will have challenging group content with mechanics that requires cordination and strategies. Similar to other popular PvE games.
And no WoW bosses don't only reward gear, they take part in quests, they progress stories, they drop gear as in weapons, armour, trinkets but they also drop mounts, pets, cosmetics, crafting patterns and materials. But I never compared AoC to WoW and I don't want to. I like that AoC is doing thing different but still implements the fun parts. Namely raids and dungeons with challenging mechanics. I'm not much of a fan of tiered raiding gear, I do like sets though and I remember them talking about that in some interview, but I may have misunderstood that, time will tell.
<div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/endgame-pve-crowd/#post-16742" rel="nofollow">DanielTheSlayer wrote:</a></div>
Now, when people say “endgame” in the mmo universe they automatically pin you as a WoW player. Its not true. I played extensively Endgame content in multiple MMO’s including WoW. Thousands of hours put into raids/speedruns in, ESO, SWTOR and WoW.
The one thing that I truly want to ask is “will you leave us hanging”. What I mean by this is will you leave us with one raid for 3-4 months on end? How big of an impact will endgame PvE have on the living world? Will the rewards be meaningful and the content diffuclt?
I ask because other MMOs usually burn their endgame crowd. I hope this wont be the same!
</blockquote>
Please don’t take my following comments as an insult, or a dig, because they’re not meant as such. Merely my perspective.
I don’t think it’s MMO developer’s burning out “end gamers”, but “end gamers” themselves. What I mean by that is, end gamers are usually in such a rush to see who can be the first, and fastest, to clear certain milestone objectives (clearing dungeons, obtaining epic loot, etc), that once they speed run through everything, they run out of content to devour, and leave until more content comes out, rinse-repeat. Just my opinion.
[/quote]
Very good reply freespiryt. As an MMO gamer since the beginning (remember MUDS) and for a short while a "hardcore" raider, the issue isnt the game, the issue is the gamer. Everyone wants to be "the first".. And in this rush, they get through the content in a month or so and then cry "there is no more content, this game is dead".
Slow down, enjoy life... An "endgame" is what you want it to be. An MMO doesnt have an "EndGame" if you dont want it to.. An MMO is not meant to be "beaten". I feel Intrepid feels the same way.
Similarin
It will be an aspect, but not the focus.
The focus is constructing, maintaining or destroying the world as a team and fighting off the triggered environment.
When goals differ, those teams will fragment and oppose each other.
This is the game.
It has been said that decisions you make and the outcome of objectives will be conclusive and unchangeable.
That does not square with repeatable instances by 1000s of people.
Otherwise whose failure or success out of 1000s would have decided the unchangeable conclusion ?
The instanced areas are merely sideshows and stocking fillers.
And to be honest they will take away from the global experience for large global cooperation.
And replace it with the local experience of limited local cooperation.