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Are we overhyping AoC?

I've been following AoC since it was announced and it sounds just perfect, but i said that so many times and just got dissapointed in the end. Why i came up with this is pretty simple:

"We have 14 people total, across a wide range of disciplines. Our Technical Director, Jason Crawford was deeply involved in the backends of EverQuest II, Planetside 2, and EverQuest Next, and was a principal coder on KillSwitch over at SCEA (again working on network and server architecture). He’s got over ten years of experience working on MMO frameworks, and he’s one of a handful of people in this world that has his particular set of skills."

Despite their experience, can a 14 man squad make the next big MMORPG? To be honest i doubt it, Even for big publishers that have studios with hundreds of employees working on the MMO, go through years and years and many dozens of millions to pull off MMO's as this...
As example Conan Exiles had 14 months and a budget of 4.5 million with also a experienced team. AoC is like 20x the scope with such a small team.

Im not trying to downplay AoC, as a MMORPG Player myself i want that the Devs will deliver what they promised us, but my past experience just says no. What do you guys think about it?

Comments

  • Steven has 30mil to play with. The kickstarter funds are on top of that. If Intrepid shows some really great content, along the way, like star citizen, more funding could come in.
  • Hey man i have been let down in past from games mostly console games but games none the less but its been in my experience that hype isnt usually a bad thing i mean like if you go into a game expecting only bad things or nothing at all then you are probably gonna get something bad or nothing new. Intrepid stupids hasnt giving into any of the companys that are money grubbers or any company at all for that matter they are making the game alone because they dont want it messed up. ( you know like the phrase if you want something done right you do it yourself?)

    Steven is a gamer himself and the lead developer of the game so have some faith man and trust that theres another gamer out there thinking for everyones best interest since hes already put millions of his own dollars into the game as it is. You could at the very least give him the benefit of the doubt
  • [quote quote=18614]Hey man i have been let down in past from games mostly console games but games none the less but its been in my experience that hype isnt usually a bad thing i mean like if you go into a game expecting only bad things or nothing at all then you are probably gonna get something bad or nothing new. Intrepid stupids hasnt giving into any of the companys that are money grubbers or any company at all for that matter they are making the game alone because they dont want it messed up. ( you know like the phrase if you want something done right you do it yourself?)

    Steven is a gamer himself and the lead developer of the game so have some faith man and trust that theres another gamer out there thinking for everyones best interest since hes already put millions of his own dollars into the game as it is. You could at the very least give him the benefit of the doubt

    [/quote]

    +
  • In conjunction with Epic Games...masters of graphical fidelity.
    In conjunction with Discord... masters of netcode and net comms.
    In conjunction with Google...masters of cloud storage and backend servers
    In conjunction with.....
  • My guess is that the hype is somewhat over-inflated to some degree at the moment, but as more and more content gets built and shown off we will know if the hype is well placed or not deserved. Just a few months ago, we saw a mage fly over a chasm and cast a couple of spells. That mage went on to do some sort of dungeon. Last Friday we saw a rogue walking around in a freehold. If the content keeps coming we're in good shape. If it dries up we will have cause to worry.
  • From what I undertsnad this 14 man team will expand to a 30 man team around the end of the kickstarter. Also, not entierly sure on this, but i've heard they actually hired people to assist them on some things outside of the team, and that is the reason why they manage to get this far in such a short time. In a way they have always been bigger than a 14 man team, and the pace will jsut continue to pick up after the kickstarter.

    But regarding overhyping. I don't think we are overhyping the game, Intrepid have done more or less everything right and keep heading towards a direction in were they will continue to do so. They deserve the hype and attention. But we are hyping it very early, as it will be a while until we get our hands on the game.
  • [quote quote=18606]Steven has 30mil to play with. The kickstarter funds are on top of that. If Intrepid shows some really great content, along the way, like star citizen, more funding could come in.

    [/quote]

    Do you have a source for that?
  • [quote quote=18603]Despite their experience, can a 14 man squad make the next big MMORPG?[/quote]

    But its NOT 14 people. They've mentioned, many times, that they'll be hiring on the back of the Kickstarter... plus, they've occasionally mentioned the support they get on the Unreal engine, and how that support effectively equals extra bodies as well. So it's way more than this low number people keep clinging to.
  • I've been burned too many times already.
    EQNext - Revival - No Man's Sky

    I have no hype.
    I do have hope.
    But, I'm expecting vaporware.
  • Can you explain the 30 million thing ?
  • I got the 30mil figure from <a href="http://massivelyop.com/2017/05/04/ashes-of-creations-steven-sharif-on-his-business-history-30m-funding-goal-and-pvp/">massivelyop</a>

    <blockquote>The project is being funded by myself currently. This is going to be a bigger game, content-wise, than Crowfall, and our budget and funding reflects that. A core viable build that includes all the features discussed about the game will take roughly $30 million to complete. The Kickstarter and any other crowdfunding we might engage in is intended to add to that budget, for additional scope on certain systems we intend to reveal throughout development.</blockquote>
    - Steven Sharif
  • Your concern is shared by many people. From following this game and seeing what has been delivered so far in the amount of time so far and with the size of the team that they have, that shows that numbers does not necessarily mean everything, but quality of the team and the dedication of that team to create the best product possible.
  • These are from an interview of Steven Sharif,Creative Director and founder of Aoc
    at http://massivelyop.com on May 4 2017

    <strong>Massively OP: Our commenters have been linking some of the Reddit concerns about Sharif’s background, and while some of it appears baseless, Sharif himself has admitted that he formerly participated in a non-gaming multi-level marketing business before moving on to real estate. While Sharif has characterized that company as legal, detractors are basically saying it was tantamount to a scam, drawing the conclusion that this Kickstarter can’t be trusted. Could you clarify the nature of the MLM and convince backers that Intrepid is on the level?</strong>

    Ashes of Creation’s Steven Sharif: Yea, it saddens me to see a lie spread about me. When I was 18, I was recruited to join an MLM company called XanGo. XanGo sold nutritional products, a fruit juice and vitamins. I started a website store to sell these products to customers, and my website was very successful. XanGo is still around today as a company and after 14 years I think has done over 3 billion in sales and is open in 50+ countries. Yes they are an MLM, and I understand that people dislike MLM because some companies focus on recruitment of people instead of sales of a product. But companies like Avon, Marykay and XanGo really focused on selling a product, what you would find at a Whole Foods store, or Health Store.

    So when I was 24, I began to get involved in investments and also in real estate, which is where I saw most of my success. I still am involved in those heavily today, but my primary focus now is in developing Ashes of Creation into an MMORPG that my true heart’s passion is focused on. Throughout my life I have always loved gaming, and it was my dream to create something that my fellow community of gamers could be proud of.

    ----------
    <strong> Massively OP
    I also saw some Redditors claiming that the AoC staff has that SOE pedigree but is relatively inexperienced, casting shade on their qualifications based on old Linkedin resumes. I know you addressed that on Reddit — could you clarify their experience and your staff setup here? Do you have 12 principals or 12 total — and how will you be expanding the team into areas where you need help? How many people do you anticipate hiring and in which fields? How will you be able to ramp up staffing quickly enough to have an alpha and then launch on your proposed timeline? (I’m thinking of how difficult City State found staffing to be.)</strong>

    Yeah sure, I was pretty surprised by that thread because we’ve got some really experienced guys here who have put a lot of blood and sweat into their careers, and to sell them short that way does them a disservice. LinkedIn is a terrible way to try to get the full picture of any individual, because it depends on the individual’s engagement of it. It feels so weird to have to defend a person’s LinkedIn, but it’s an opt-in service that is wholly dependent on a person’s need to use it along with their networking goals. A lot of these guys haven’t had to use it much, because the industry is actually pretty small and designers and artists often rely on their own networks to get the word out. When hiring this group, I relied on references, resumes, and actual published game credits to construct it. I couldn’t make this game with a rag-tag team of inexperienced know-nothings. At the end of the day though, even the resume doesn’t matter much, it’s what they actually do that matters.
    “I couldn’t make this game with a rag-tag team of inexperienced know-nothings.”
    We have 14 people total, across a wide range of disciplines. Our Technical Director, Jason Crawford was deeply involved in the backends of EverQuest II, Planetside 2, and EverQuest Next, and was a principal coder on KillSwitch over at SCEA (again working on network and server architecture). He’s got over ten years of experience working on MMO frameworks, and he’s one of a handful of people in this world that has his particular set of skills.

    Our Lead Designer, Jeffrey Bard really is a bard of sorts, a full package guy, and has been involved in nearly every aspect of MMO production. Beyond design, he’s done customer support, QA, international operations and has been part of startups previously. He got into the MMO industry in 2003 at SOE and quickly rose through the ranks of leadership – that means he’s been knee deep in MMOs for over 14 years! Because of the breadth of his experience I don’t think there are too many people who have his perspective and understanding of all the pieces that make up an MMO. His contribution to this team has been priceless.

    And Michael Bacon! This guy has been in games forever (since the ’90s) but regardless of his experience, his stuff looks amazing. He’s worked on the first two Saints Rows, some of the Duke Nukem games way back in the Playstation and Playstation 2 era, among so many others. He worked on nearly every EverQuest 2 expansion, which is a lot of them. He’s one of our rocks, extraordinarily experienced, and is one of the reasons why our game looks the way it does.

    And that’s just three of our guys. I could go into it with the rest of the group, but suffice it to say, the team has been around the block, and I think what we’ve shown to our players continues to prove that out.

    As far as staffing is concerned, we’re looking to double the size of the team by the end of the summer, and triple it by the end of the year. We want to grow organically and are focused on hiring people who fit our team and culture best. We haven’t run into any issues finding talent so far, and part of that is our location – San Diego, Orange County and LA all have huge pools of good people we can draw from.

    ---------

    <strong>Massively OP
    Can you discuss the setup of your funding? How much capital has gone into the game so far, and where did it come from? How much is the whole game expected to cost, all told, and how does it compare to other recent Kickstarted MMOs? (Crowfall has raised $12M, for example.)</strong>

    “A core viable build that includes all the features discussed about the game will take roughly $30 million to complete.”
    The project is being funded by myself currently. This is going to be a bigger game, content-wise, than Crowfall, and our budget and funding reflects that. A core viable build that includes all the features discussed about the game will take roughly $30 million to complete. The Kickstarter and any other crowdfunding we might engage in is intended to add to that budget, for additional scope on certain systems we intend to reveal throughout development.

    Is the characterization of the game as a bit of a vanity project built by a wealthy benefactor fair? Can you (Steven) discuss your own business expertise as it relates to building MMORPGs or games specifically? How many of the design decisions are being left to the pros with more development (rather than business) experience?

    Vanity project? No. Passion project? Yes. First and foremost I am an MMORPG gamer. I have been since I first sat down at a computer. I had the fortunate circumstance in life, to become wealthy through hard work at a young age. A couple years ago, I got very fed up with what was happening to a genre that I love. So I decided to put my money where my heart is and do something about it. That is where Ashes of Creation comes in. All of the design decisions are made by myself. Before it becomes a decision, however, I ask my pros if it can be done, and done right with a reasonable cost. I learned early in my life, that there is nothing more valuable than advice from a pro, which is how I made my team. I found the pros on the projects I liked, and made sure that when I ask for advice, I trust the source.


    Source link
    http://massivelyop.com/2017/05/04/ashes-of-creations-steven-sharif-on-his-business-history-30m-funding-goal-and-pvp/
  • The main decisive factor for me is the lack of publishers.
    All my previous hopes for that 1 awesome game have died or derailed by the usual suspects of the dead MMO

    Sony/NCSoft/EA....(<--insert publisher-->) etc.

    The whole fact that's its a a privately funded, small dedicated core team, with a tangible vision and solid directive goal, was what gave me confidence.

    There is no reason why the production could not ramp up or down with staff depending on the workload.
    It's just savvy business efficiency. Why hire a 100 chimps when you could could hire 1 experienced veteran of the industry?

    I rarely get hyped. (we've all more than likely be burned by the MMO dream hotplate a number of times by now to know). I think it's actually bad for the consumer and industry.
    Look at all the lazy cash grabs in the past, the rise of the preorder culture.

    I remember when demo disks were a thing...

    I am encouraged by what i have seen Intrepid offer so far, and in saying felt enough trust to where i would roll the kick starter dice 1 more time...

    I however will hold off making Ashes of Creation assumptions based off speculation, and appreciate as much shared development content progression, at ideally reliable intervals to insure the validity of the project.

    Some may be overhyping it...I think I am still within reason.
  • I understand your reservations, we have all been burned so bad. But for some reason a ray of hope is shinning for AoC!!! I just can't put my finger on it! :)
  • <blockquote>Are we overhyping AoC?</blockquote>

    YES
  • It can't turn out any worse than Vanguard...

    I followed that MMO so vigorously only to get nothing like I'd hoped for. But, you know, if Vanguard came out tomorrow I'd eat it up, because it would be so much better than trash we've been fed for the past 5 or so years.

    MMOs have gone so far downhill that if even half of what is being promised by AoC becomes reality then we'll be better off.

    That's why I'm hyped. I'm hearing and seeing things from AoC that is far, far better than we're getting from any other dev team. Steven is a gamer and he sees this same thing. He appears to have money and a dev team that appears to want to fulfill his every wish.

    I don't see this community buzz with every MMO that pops up either. I've followed a lot of MMOs and this feels so different.


    The short of it though? I can't bloody help but be hyped. If it turns out not so good at least I can say I enjoyed the ride.
  • The hype comes from what Steven has told us as community. He's a very skillful spokesman for certain.

    The thing bothering me the most is the amount of stuff they have promised without actually giving us anything about how they'll be solving the balance issues of different matters.

    I truly believe Steven has real motivation in trying to make the best current MMORPG for gamers. But a lot can happen when giving the responsibility of changing the world for players. I hope they won't let the game purely float on player actions, but guide us to the "right" directions to keep the game entertaining and living.

    With the things we now know it can only be said that the only remarkable specification of Ashes is that it's been made on the UE4 engine :D Otherwise it's just another MMORPG in production until shown more of the final product.
  • [quote quote=18689]I’ve been burned too many times already.
    EQNext – Revival – No Man’s Sky

    I have no hype.
    I do have hope.
    But, I’m expecting vaporware.

    [/quote]

    ugh. all 3 of those were brutal disappointments to me. especially EQN though (being an ex-EQ gamer) which I had so much joy and excitement for when it was announced and then dreams and hopes all destroyed.
  • Even if it's the most amazing game in the world, someone is always going to be unhappy with the result, so does overhyping it really make a difference in the world anyway?
  • The wrong thing? Maybe!
    But know what? Sometimes the wrong things feel sooooo goooood 8)
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