Group ability`s

so i saw this quote in the topic of weapon collision.
[quote quote=737]Ooooo a ability to “lock” shields with other tanks effectively turning 2 or more people into 1 solid arse-kicking wall man that would be amazing…
[/quote]

And when i saw that i suddenly had an idea that might be cool. So my idea was like when a node gets seiged that you can make a group with, lets say archers, make a group ability of a arrow rain on a location (sorry i suck at explaining hopefully you guys understand what i mean.) The same as with the idea with the shield wall and also with other classes. I think it would be awesome to have such a thing in-game.
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Comments

  • It seems like an interesting idea. Having tanks actually being able to block projectiles with their shields would be really cool an immersive, yet it could also end up being overpowered.

    I would imagine the shield having it's own healthbar of some sort, similar to Reinhardts shield in Overwatch.
  • i find that idea interesting aswell, if it gets implemented to let the shield have a seperate health bar, or you can also have an other classes 'group ability' counter the shields in some way.

    for example a big sort of meteor from mages that will drop down (maybe that will be overpowered but just throwing out idea`s.)
    Group abilitys would also counter other group abilitys like if the tanks go into a turtle kind of stance the arrows wont go through.
    You can talk days about this with special interactions and counters but i hope you get my idea.
  • whatever they do, I hope that they include some kind of skills synergy between classes.. or even within your own class. Like you can have your own skills that combo with other skills you have.. but also combo with skills that other party members may use.. I remember playing the good ol FFXI . They had a great combo system in that where party members would each use their "Limitbreak" one after another and the mage would finish with a spell to do a magic burst and you'd get large Damage increases if timed properly.
  • I dont mind the shield wall.....but if you make a 90% speed penalty to go with it, they become sitting ducks for ground based aoe like fire.
    As long as you apply a negative to go with every positive, there is always a way to make things fair.
    With strength comes weakness.
  • Back when I was enthusiastic about some other MMO ,I played with the idea of formations as well and how this would change the dynamic of combat,for better or worse..
    If i remember correctly,it was in context of finding a solution to world vs world zerging.
    As Rune_Relic mentions,they would need to apply a negative to go with the positive.
    So lets say players can increase their protection by froming some kind of shield formation ,
    the negative that could be applied to balance that is that war machines like the catapult would have a damage multiplier based on the amount of players in the radius of the catapult's aoe blast

    Also ,to stimulate the social cohesion of mmo's
    It might be nice to see a group progression system that runs parallel with the character(your character)progression system you are used to.
    Actually it is very logical if you think about it;during life you grow as a person.But you'll also grow in relations.(and in mmo's its all about the multiplayer aspect,or at least it should be)
    If you just met someone you do not always understand the person immediately,but if you have known each other for years,a gaze is sometimes enough to understand each other.
    Group progression could ,in a way, also be seen as an advanced friendlist system.
    Character progression is individual in most(if not all) mmo's.I'm not sure if progression has ever been designed properly for an mmo's though.
    Perhaps its what people perceive as " the feeling they are playing a single player game, with other people running around".
    They know something is off but can't fingerpoint it, neither can I.

    In quest for glory V, swimming was actually a skill you had to improve.
    When you first attempted to swim ,your character just splattered around the limbs in the water.Sea monsters could easily catch on with the slow- pace- swimming of an untrained character.
    In mmo's we know nowadays,your character is instantly pro-swimmer.
    Because we've never seen a progression system for swimming in MMo's,nobody expects it to be there.
    "progression system for swimming" said no topic ever..
    if there was one,learning new techniques like the crawl could be seen as the personal progression.
    While rescue/lifesaving is based on group progression
    Also for spellcasting there could be spells as mostly seen in mmo's for personal progression ,and rituals for group progression casting
    Actually,with bards in the game,I might truly enjoy group progression..who wants to start a band?
    Or if you become an acrobat you could "assist dance" a fellow player for some awesome choreography unlockments as you progress as group
    Warriors could then also train together as group progression...
    Hmm maybe this would require a complete revamp of skill system too ? I'm beginning to think it would affect other systems
  • I think that would be awesome, also having a other progression type going around for example horse riding. If you havent done anything with it you can ride it but slower and unstable, if you have learned and masterd it you can ride fast and more stable stuff like that. i dont know if there will be a system for attacking off a horse otherwise you could also do that the first couple of levels you can only ride it and after a while you can attack from the back of the horse and even further you can use some spells from the horse something like that.
  • [quote quote=1900]I dont mind the shield wall…..but if you make a 90% speed penalty to go with it, they become sitting ducks for ground based aoe like fire.
    As long as you apply a negative to go with every positive, there is always a way to make things fair.
    With strength comes weakness.

    [/quote]

    I was thinking something along those lines as well. A certain aspect of that ability has to be punishing in order to make it fair for all parties involved. A bit of an issue I see with this ability though, is that tanks might not end up being as fun to play, if that's all they're used for.
  • Interesting that you mention riding,Cococol
    While mmo's have had upgrades for riding skills,they never have had a progression system linked to riding ,where you truly have to master it yourself,as the player.
    Instantly buying a driver license upgrade in games is easy.Getting a driver license is something else.It requires effort and there is the chance you won't succeed from the first time.
    I think the riding skill has affected how fast you can get dismounted by mobs in mmo's,and stuff like that,..
    But it has nevery had an impact on how you can keep the mount under controle while the beast senses great danger ,for example.
    Most people would probably say "why overcomplicate things" because they are used to games where instant mastery of riding a mount is standard.Its what they've always been used to,so they dont expect it..
    So thats why nobody asks for ,nor desires (Well I do and I can't speak for everyone,but never saw the request) a more challenging riding system.
    Ofcouse there could be more stable stuff where you could pimp your mount,..,..Since mount sytems never had the depth to it.
    Just like swimming its like poof,instant pro at it.
    Its a pitty that players might now be used to it being so easy they don't want anything else :(

    When considering group progression,running a stable suddenly sounds very exciting to me
    It would be like a bunch of players preparing for an animal beauty contest,taking care of their mounts,showing off,giving beauty &diet advice to other players lol
    Also imagine what an honor it would be to wash the king/queen's dragon :D
  • [quote quote=1900]I dont mind the shield wall…..but if you make a 90% speed penalty to go with it, they become sitting ducks for ground based aoe like fire.
    As long as you apply a negative to go with every positive, there is always a way to make things fair.
    With strength comes weakness.

    [/quote]

    i agree with this, ontop of that the back of the shield wall would be exposed so if you attack the shield wall from behind you could do extra damage.
  • [quote quote=1916]i agree with this, ontop of that the back of the shield wall would be exposed so if you attack the shield wall from behind you could do extra damage.[/quote]

    Or maybe you could always do bonus damage when hitting anyone from behind?.. like a Back Attack bonus of some sort..
  • [quote quote=1922]<blockquote><div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/group-abilitys/#post-1916" rel="nofollow">Shunex wrote:</a></div>
    i agree with this, ontop of that the back of the shield wall would be exposed so if you attack the shield wall from behind you could do extra damage.
    </blockquote>
    Or maybe you could always do bonus damage when hitting anyone from behind?.. like a Back Attack bonus of some sort..

    [/quote]
    yeah, thats what im thinking
  • I am all for realism in levelling up. I am there to be absorbed in the atmosphere.
    Its when its done as an endless grind purely as a time sink that I absolutely hate.
    A novice being thrown off a horse quite often would be amusing..especially in the middle of battle.
    Are such moments not what we live for ?

    I agree on the rear attack vulnerability, but I think thats normally (should be) covered under sneak attacks anyway.
    So I guess should always be a damage mutiplyer for flanking and such.

    I would really love to see full on ranks and battle formation going head to head.
    Tanks infantry sponging the damage with shield walls...maybe spears
    Archers with ranged attack with arrow barrage.
    Stealth attack flanking the tanks
    Cavalry braking up the lines.

    It would be something epic to partake of a seriously organised large scale battle.
    Alas, free for all is nearly always the most effective way to fight in MMOs.
    :(

    One of the things I like about ESO was the concept of synergies where you could share powers momentarily for groups attacks.
    It would be nice to submit control to the server to perform a specific formation attack.
    And then hit a release button at any point to exit.
  • Actually on the lines of stealth...do we not need the fog of war ? smoke fires to reduce visibility to almost zero.
  • Synergies are very interesting indeed.remember the elementalist in guildwars 2 being able to plant a fire wall & then archers could like shoot fire arrows.

    What also might be interesting is a group ability like
    1 shaman casts lightningbolt
    Shaman + 1 shaman assisting the lightingbolt spell turns it into chainlighning.
    3 shaman creates a powerful large lightning storm aoe

    Unlike the previous examples ,these type of group ability would be very combat oriented.

    Maybe a similar example i gave for the shaman could be applied to a steath mechanic.
    So steath of one rogue would differ from the group ability
  • Been a bit gone from this forum cuz i'm participating in a Global Game Jam and got some time to read up again. Basically said, i like actually all the idea`s here. I just want a good game that really needs a lot of teamwork to win, so group ability's, and those sneak/flank attack bonusus i also completely agree with them. And comming back to the horse mechanic i posted about, basically everything that you can learn could be a leveling system and i would completely agree with it. Im the type of guy that really plays to get everything highest level and the more leveling systems there are the more i would like it. I can't say that for all the people here of course but i would love to see those things happen.
  • I think synergy between skills would be awesome. Like what Darshx1 has said, FFXI had some cool skill combos and magic bursts, although their combat was slow paced compared to modern games. GW2 had some combos, but you had to do it super quick.

    I tend to two man many content with a friend, if there were synergy between skills that would be super fun.
  • it would be nice if for example mages, had the ability to synergise their ability's to create a more powerful version i.e a group of 4 mages doing a "meteor" ability would rain havoc.
  • [quote quote=2696]it would be nice if for example mages, had the ability to synergise their ability’s to create a more powerful version i.e a group of 4 mages doing a “meteor” ability would rain havoc.

    [/quote]

    I have no problem with that as long as they cant animation cancel out of it and keep the extra damage.
    I would expect vulnerabilities.
    Setup/execution time with a long telegraph being one of them.

    They would be powerful within the midst of 100s of distracting players.
    But avoidable if alone.

    Dont want 100 mages teaming up to carpet bomb a massive area that no one can escape from :/
    Good for the mages. Bad for everyone else.
  • What I'm wondering is how would the shieldwall decided to turn or move or who would decide where the arrow rain/meteor lands?
    That could be a bit troublesome.
  • [quote quote=2779]What I’m wondering is how would the shieldwall decided to turn or move or who would decide where the arrow rain/meteor lands?
    That could be a bit troublesome.

    [/quote]

    This is the main reason I suggester a shield-wall join option.
    By joining....you explicitily give over movement control until you hit the break-shield-wall option.
    The instigator of the shield wall would have full control of group movement while in that mode.
    Instigator position xyz +x +y +z

    This way you can always leave the shield wall at your leisure.
    This way the shield wall can function under individual control of the instigator.
    This way the shield wall can adopt the perfect formation and animation
  • [quote quote=2854]<blockquote><div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/group-abilitys/page/2/#post-2779" rel="nofollow">Amuria wrote:</a></div>
    What I’m wondering is how would the shieldwall decided to turn or move or who would decide where the arrow rain/meteor lands?
    That could be a bit troublesome.

    </blockquote>
    This is the main reason I suggester a shield-wall join option.
    By joining….you explicitily give over movement control until you hit the break-shield-wall option.
    The instigator of the shield wall would have full control of group movement while in that mode.
    Instigator position xyz +x +y +z

    This way you can always leave the shield wall at your leisure.
    This way the shield wall can function under individual control of the instigator.
    This way the shield wall can adopt the perfect formation and animation

    [/quote]


    yeah this would work, having a the first tank as the wall's leader, i have to say actually witnessing this is a game would be amazing :P
  • @Shunex
    I think I would legit cry the 1st time I saw proper player controlled ranks and formations in an largescale warfare MMO.

    Hype off > calm down mode.
  • [quote quote=2865]<a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/users/shunex/" rel="nofollow">@shunex</a>
    I think I would legit cry the 1st time I saw proper player controlled ranks and formations in an largescale warfare MMO.

    Hype off > calm down mode.

    [/quote]
    No no no, get more hyped :) But seriously though, all this sounds amazing :O

    Having shieldwalls, casting rituals etc. sounds nice. Let me at a few ideas:

    5+ bards can start a choir and get some battle spirit going :)
    10+ mages can transport/teleport a large amount of players a short distance, "we need people overhere, moves 5 player where support is needed".
    5+ druids (if thats a thing) can summon a wall of trees for a short while.

    If you guys want more ideas let me know, but these where the ones I could think of off the top of my head :)
  • I think if we have that much mechanics in this game it would be a mmo which doesn't need a dlc after a short time after the release. if the game have this content it will have much possibillities.

    Other suggestions:
    Mages combine two different skills for example a earthball and a fireball, so it is one magmaball or a mage and a fighter combine two slills, the fighter makes a storm attack and the mage makes his attack electrical.
  • [quote quote=2869]<blockquote><div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/group-abilitys/page/2/#post-2865" rel="nofollow">Rune_Relic wrote:</a></div>
    <a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/users/shunex/" rel="nofollow">@shunex</a>
    I think I would legit cry the 1st time I saw proper player controlled ranks and formations in an largescale warfare MMO.

    Hype off > calm down mode.

    </blockquote>
    No no no, get more hyped <img alt="?" src="https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/2/svg/1f642.svg" /> But seriously though, all this sounds amazing :O

    Having shieldwalls, casting rituals etc. sounds nice. Let me at a few ideas:

    5+ bards can start a choir and get some battle spirit going <img alt="?" src="https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/2/svg/1f642.svg" />
    10+ mages can transport/teleport a large amount of players a short distance, “we need people overhere, moves 5 player where support is needed”.
    5+ druids (if thats a thing) can summon a wall of trees for a short while.

    If you guys want more ideas let me know, but these where the ones I could think of off the top of my head <img alt="?" src="https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/2/svg/1f642.svg" />

    [/quote]

    lol druids can summon trees that'll be op as f.... i can see the forums now.... NERF TREES OMG
  • If these groups all have a Leader who "takes control" what if the Leader dies?
    For example in a Shield Wall if the Leader dies from a fireball or so would the complete wall break?
  • [quote quote=2904]If these groups all have a Leader who “takes control” what if the Leader dies?
    For example in a Shield Wall if the Leader dies from a fireball or so would the complete wall break?

    [/quote]

    i think it would pass to the next person to join, and keep going down the line, or even if the leader is killed the formation breaks apart.
  • [quote quote=2905]<blockquote><div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/group-abilitys/page/2/#post-2904" rel="nofollow">Shukketsu wrote:</a></div>
    If these groups all have a Leader who “takes control” what if the Leader dies?
    For example in a Shield Wall if the Leader dies from a fireball or so would the complete wall break?

    </blockquote>
    i think it would pass to the next person to join, and keep going down the line, or even if the leader is killed the formation breaks apart.

    [/quote]
    Well it would presumably also break the wall at the place where the leader stood, unless they just make you move together if someone dies in the middle.

    @Shunex
    The trees thing I wasnt thinking 200m long wall of inpenetrable trees, more like a short wall to stall attackers for 5/10/20 seconds?
  • yeah, that makes sense but...... op trees would be a first in mmo's
  • Get one shot by an erupting blockade of trees. lmao.
    Area denial with blockade skills ? I dont see why not myself.
    Perhaps even 3/4 groups boxing an area to make a temporary trap.
    I guess it all depends on counters/penalties durations/cooldowns and how such things interact.

    Trees can be burnt down with fire.
    Fire can be put out with water/ice.
    Fire can be spread with wind/air.
    Ground-based roots can impede and advance.
    As long as opposites/negation is available, the counterplay is always there, and an ongoing process.

    Probing for weakness is all part of the process of trying to gain an advantage in battle...or merely a decoy/distraction.
    Who made a mistake (didnt counter) first ?
    Who didnt come fully prepared ?
    Who came better prepared than the other ?
    Who got suckered into a trap ?

    If the instigator dies, then perhaps the shield wall should break.
    You can always reform another wall with whoever is remaining too with a new instigator.
    What happens if the leed of a phalanx dies and the phalanx breaks......they regroup and make a new one.
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