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Can we please have kidnapping of players?
Before the pitchforks and torches are brought out, allow me to explain.
Kidnapping would have to be extremely limited in terms of who could be targeted, in terms of both circumstances and requirements.
It would have to be a player of high renown for starters. Whether that is a player well known for their artisan class, or position in local government or guild leaders and such, would be part of the determining factors. These people need to be important, need to be missed in their absence, and need to retrieved at all costs. Each of these sections of the metaphorical pyramid are universally important. So, only those of high value would even be considered for kidnapping. This prevents low tier, new players from being targeted and for lack of a better word, conscripted or harassed.
Another limitation that would need to be put in place, would be a conflicted state, so most likely nations/guilds at active war with one another. This provides incentive to combat leaders on both sides to remove opposing players of great importance to the enemy guild/nation, as you get to levy demands against the faction such as monetary gain resources or maybe even the enemies defeat.
The third limitation, will be the kidnapped players level of communication. Guild chat is disabled, and global chat is heavily gimped. Think of it as the equivalent of smoke signals in terms of how much you can say in global chat. " Am stolen. Plz Halp!"
The fourth limitation, which I'm still unsure on, would be the time-frame on which determines the minimum and maximum time a player can remain in a kidnapped state. To that end, I turn to you all. What are your thoughts on this idea, as well as the limits I've put forth? Lets get a dialogue going and see if this can be fleshed out and hell, maybe even considered by the developers.
Kidnapping would have to be extremely limited in terms of who could be targeted, in terms of both circumstances and requirements.
It would have to be a player of high renown for starters. Whether that is a player well known for their artisan class, or position in local government or guild leaders and such, would be part of the determining factors. These people need to be important, need to be missed in their absence, and need to retrieved at all costs. Each of these sections of the metaphorical pyramid are universally important. So, only those of high value would even be considered for kidnapping. This prevents low tier, new players from being targeted and for lack of a better word, conscripted or harassed.
Another limitation that would need to be put in place, would be a conflicted state, so most likely nations/guilds at active war with one another. This provides incentive to combat leaders on both sides to remove opposing players of great importance to the enemy guild/nation, as you get to levy demands against the faction such as monetary gain resources or maybe even the enemies defeat.
The third limitation, will be the kidnapped players level of communication. Guild chat is disabled, and global chat is heavily gimped. Think of it as the equivalent of smoke signals in terms of how much you can say in global chat. " Am stolen. Plz Halp!"
The fourth limitation, which I'm still unsure on, would be the time-frame on which determines the minimum and maximum time a player can remain in a kidnapped state. To that end, I turn to you all. What are your thoughts on this idea, as well as the limits I've put forth? Lets get a dialogue going and see if this can be fleshed out and hell, maybe even considered by the developers.
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The last thing I want is to be running around doing a quest and suddenly become prisoner and unable to do anything while I'm kidnapped and not even able to talk
The last thing I want is to be running around doing a quest and suddenly become prisoner and unable to do anything while I’m kidnapped and not even able to talk
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Your guild/nation would already have to be at war with another guild/nation, which means you're already on the lookout(or should be) for players wanting to kill you.
Actually no, there is one thing I could think of to make this both relevant and interesting, which would be to incorporate it into the sieges. Once a siege is declared there could be a period of time where both sides could declare a champion or general for the siege. During the time between the siege being declared and the event starting, each side has the opportunity to kidnap the enemy general. If they manage to capture the general, the players on the capturing team receive a buff during the siege.
I agree, but there is a huge difference between being killed and re spawning right away and being held captive, unable to do anything for the duration of the kidnapping and cant even talk in certain chats. If that happens I'd log off and be done with the game for the day because what's the point of even being online
Also, to limit communications of a napped player is, simply put, impossible. You might be able to limit ingame communications but you can't stop the player from going on the guild discord or chatting up friends on facebook or whatsapp or anything. So this idea would be mostly redundant.
Kidnapping might make for an interesting strategy in sieges and wars but it can't be done with actual players. NPCs however are a completely different thing. Those generals or champions or whatever kinda position they might have could be some form of elite NPC that can be kidnapped to either buff one side or debuff the other. There could even be several nappable characters. For example napping a Champion/Hero NPC would demotivate the side it was napped from, lowering their combat effectiveness while napping a General might put their armies in disarray, leading to holes in their defenses or slower responses to events like breaking down a wall or something (tho' that might be a bit harder on the devs).
Of course, since those NPCs are merely napped instead of killed there would be a chance to reclaim them so both sides have incentives to look out for and attack/defend certain POIs.
Let's say those nappable NPCs are like bosses in a siege that take around 10 minutes or more to take down with a proper party/raid. Napping them would only take 1-2 minutes if executed well. That'd make it a risk-reward sort of strategy.
Killing those NPCs would grant the respective effect permanently but fighting for 10 minutes or more raises the risk of being interrupted by enemy players against a boss that's already hard to deal with.
Napping them would be faster and has less risk of being interrupted, however the effect is only temporary as the enemy team has a chance to reclaim them, nulling the effect. Of course it'd have to be done so that napped NPCs can't be killed during the time they're napped.
The NPC kidnapping could be something like an open world capture the flag game. Happens during conflict and the players from either 'faction' are given reward base on who secure the target before X amount of time.
I don't like it.
I'm for the idea, but worried about what might happen if it was used to grief instead of making a meaningful conflict.
Still, as Madnacc said, as a special function during sieges, it might be kind of an interesting estrategical option, if managed correctly, allowing a team to block temporarily some members from the opposing team. Of course, there should be an option to rescue and the "kidnapped" players would be released automatically after the siege.
Either storm a keep to retrieve the prisoner or have a stealth team to try and extract them quietly.
The PvP aspects on both sides would be exciting I think.
But as said, not so interesting for the kidnapper or kidnapped, if they wait around for ever.
Why would anyone pay a ransom if they know the prisoner will be released anyway?
So you cant have an auto-release mechanism..which means you cant use players....as stated.
So....
What you would need is highly prominant diplomat of sorts.
If you capture them, the enemy node loses stats.
The enemy node stats remain reduced, until the prisoner is rescued or the ransom paid.
This forces either trade, incursion or war...to stop the node from being crippled.
You'l have say 4 hours to find and kidnap or defend your NPC, if you successfully defend you get a buff, if your NPC's kidnapped, the other guild will get a buff, and you'll have say 2 hours to get your NPC back. During that time, you could have reduced communication etc.
This would give Guild Wars some meaning, rather than just declaring because some guild's in your grinding zone, declare by all means, but make sure you have enough people on to protect your high value asset.
I'm seeing suggestions for buffs on the side of "he who holds the target" and detrimental effects for those who lack the target, and I like it. So, what other ways could we flesh out kidnapping an NPC? They'd have to, at the minimum, be of value to one degree or another yea? So, what KIND of NPC's could we theoretically snatch up, and what benefit would it bring to do the kindapping party?
I like Shirkuryu's idea that the way it could possibly work is, if the target was an important NPC of the target city. For example. kidnapping a chief war strategist, before a siege. Or, an important trade official, to muck up the city's economy, etc etc.
1) war has been declared. 2 week for prep on both sides (but its obvious the declarer had already prepare much in advance)
2) guild and citizens can get special quest to protect or kidnap key NPC between the time of declaration to the time of war.
3) the target location is always displayed on the map once you accepted the quest. Since its an NPC, they might walk a daily route, if players are clever, they can figure out when the best time to strike. Same as those serving to protect.
4) getting into the city is difficult so defending city has home advantage. Stealth, wall climbing, teleport, flying, disguise, spies would be used to get into the city and capture the target.
5) if you manage to capture the target, you have to take them out of the city and into your city (to the NPC who commision the job). Between that time, it will be a car chase. The person carrying the target is slow so they will need protection.
6) if u get ur target to the return point, they are held in a dungeon until the war is over. The defending city can still rescue the NPC until the 2 weeks are up.
7) effect: a temporary decline in cities function during the war once the siege starts. The function will match the NPC. The function might be trivial or might hinder the city greatly. Example: the head blacksmith was kidnap: all items made via smithing -20% stats.
8) after siege is done, NPC returns.
The NPC kidnapping could be something like an open world capture the flag game. Happens during conflict and the players from either ‘faction’ are given reward base on who secure the target before X amount of time.
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My first comment is towards the effect on the community. There are several crimes that have been suggested on the forums regarding playable mechanics that could create such extremely high emotional responses from those with personal experiences due to the intimacy of these experiences. I have seen other posts of like nature, not take this viewpoint into account of more grievous suggestions and their effect on others. I would not wish any individual to feel effected due to egregious player mechanics.
NPCs is a great suggestion to not place players directly into these situations.
<div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/can-we-please-have-kidnapping-of-players/#post-19110" rel="nofollow">Shirikuryu wrote:</a></div>
Kidnapping players sounds like a bad idea, but kidnapping NPCs sounds like a great idea.
The NPC kidnapping could be something like an open world capture the flag game. Happens during conflict and the players from either ‘faction’ are given reward base on who secure the target before X amount of time.
</blockquote>
My first comment is towards the effect on the community. There are several crimes that have been suggested on the forums regarding playable mechanics that could create such extremely high emotional responses from those with personal experiences due to the intimacy of these experiences. I have seen other posts of like nature, not take this viewpoint into account of more grievous suggestions and their effect on others. I would not wish any individual to feel effected due to egregious player mechanics.
NPCs is a great suggestion to not place players directly into these situations.
[/quote]
Well, as I said in my latest post, lets completely set aside the notion of kidnapping players, and instead focus on expanding the notion on kidnapping NPC's. So, in regards to that portion, what would you like to see/what ideas would you suggest to make this mechanic the most rewarding it could be?
Off topic: As someone who has been the victim of literally every category of abuse that exists, I say get over it. As for how one gets over it, small scale trauma exposure that is in a controlled environment is the best method in confronting things such as PTSD(I'm diagnosed and have had many a therapy session over it) because it shows the individual that although yes bad things can and often do happen, in this instance they aren't the end of the world. So slightly increasing the threshold in which the trauma occurs allows for a tolerance buildup to the stimuli. So, in that regard we shouldn't entirely be worrying about people's personal experiences in that matter as that is for the individual(with help) to get over.
1) war has been declared. 2 week for prep on both sides (but its obvious the declarer had already prepare much in advance)
2) guild and citizens can get special quest to protect or kidnap key NPC between the time of declaration to the time of war.
3) the target location is always displayed on the map once you accepted the quest. Since its an NPC, they might walk a daily route, if players are clever, they can figure out when the best time to strike. Same as those serving to protect.
4) getting into the city is difficult so defending city has home advantage. Stealth, wall climbing, teleport, flying, disguise, spies would be used to get into the city and capture the target.
5) if you manage to capture the target, you have to take them out of the city and into your city (to the NPC who commision the job). Between that time, it will be a car chase. The person carrying the target is slow so they will need protection.
6) if u get ur target to the return point, they are held in a dungeon until the war is over. The defending city can still rescue the NPC until the 2 weeks are up.
7) effect: a temporary decline in cities function during the war once the siege starts. The function will match the NPC. The function might be trivial or might hinder the city greatly. Example: the head blacksmith was kidnap: all items made via smithing -20% stats.
8) after siege is done, NPC returns.
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I wish there was an upvote button lol. Warframe forums spoiled me on that. I like the way you think good sir/ma'am.
As for the kidnappers during this time need to keep hold of the kidnapped NPC. The NPC could leave clues for pursuers, attempt to escape or cry for help and making other NPC's in the area be able to give the pursuers more information on the kidnappers (eg: race, gender, name or title depending on the renown of the players). If the kidnappers are citizens of a developed node they should have a choice to hold their captive at their home node or out in the wilds somewhere. Holding them at their home node makes it easier to prevent the captive from escaping but if the trail is found to lead to their node it would have detrimental effects its relations and standings with other nodes. Possible having NPC's from the kidnapped NPC's home node demanding for the destruction of the offending node.
The suggested amount of time I made is more for a deterrent to prevent players from constantly kidnapping NPC's and making it a blight in the game. This system should make for more work required to pull it off but have it as high risk high reward.
It's late and I'm tired so sorry if its not more flushed out but maybe you all can come up with ways to make it more solid of a concept.
1) war has been declared. 2 week for prep on both sides (but its obvious the declarer had already prepare much in advance)
2) guild and citizens can get special quest to protect or kidnap key NPC between the time of declaration to the time of war.
3) the target location is always displayed on the map once you accepted the quest. Since its an NPC, they might walk a daily route, if players are clever, they can figure out when the best time to strike. Same as those serving to protect.
4) getting into the city is difficult so defending city has home advantage. Stealth, wall climbing, teleport, flying, disguise, spies would be used to get into the city and capture the target.
5) if you manage to capture the target, you have to take them out of the city and into your city (to the NPC who commision the job). Between that time, it will be a car chase. The person carrying the target is slow so they will need protection.
6) if u get ur target to the return point, they are held in a dungeon until the war is over. The defending city can still rescue the NPC until the 2 weeks are up.
7) effect: a temporary decline in cities function during the war once the siege starts. The function will match the NPC. The function might be trivial or might hinder the city greatly. Example: the head blacksmith was kidnap: all items made via smithing -20% stats.
8) after siege is done, NPC returns.
[/quote]
I would sign up to this general framework.
I would leave the fine details to Intrepid.
:thumbsup:
1) war has been declared. 2 week for prep on both sides (but its obvious the declarer had already prepare much in advance)
2) guild and citizens can get special quest to protect or kidnap key NPC between the time of declaration to the time of war.
3) the target location is always displayed on the map once you accepted the quest. Since its an NPC, they might walk a daily route, if players are clever, they can figure out when the best time to strike. Same as those serving to protect.
4) getting into the city is difficult so defending city has home advantage. Stealth, wall climbing, teleport, flying, disguise, spies would be used to get into the city and capture the target.
5) if you manage to capture the target, you have to take them out of the city and into your city (to the NPC who commision the job). Between that time, it will be a car chase. The person carrying the target is slow so they will need protection.
6) if u get ur target to the return point, they are held in a dungeon until the war is over. The defending city can still rescue the NPC until the 2 weeks are up.
7) effect: a temporary decline in cities function during the war once the siege starts. The function will match the NPC. The function might be trivial or might hinder the city greatly. Example: the head blacksmith was kidnap: all items made via smithing -20% stats.
8) after siege is done, NPC returns.
[/quote]
sighs...auto delete strikes again.
I would sign up to this framework.
I would leave the finer details to intrepid.
They would be more intimately aware of the available targets and effected systems.
:thumbsup:
Kidnapping NPC however sounds interesting!
Any chance we can get word from the developers to weigh in on this? I feel that some direct communication with them in regards to what they wish to do or allow here and now would be better than investing a lotta time and energy into a potential system that they're not interested in using.
The last thing I want is to be running around doing a quest and suddenly become prisoner and unable to do anything while I’m kidnapped and not even able to talk
[/quote]
Agreed. losing complete control of your character sounds like a very bad experience. The games are designed to give us all a sense of strength and power, to have the ability to make someone feel helpless is a just, just goes against what games are designed to do.
I work a lot, and when I do have the time to play something I don't want to spend it locked-up by a griefer.
However, the same process for an NPC could be entertaining i.e. capturing an important NPC from a node under siege such as the Guard Captain in order to weaken defenses. Or capturing a head religious figure NPC. I like possibilities along that line.