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Professions & Hybridization ideas
I have a bunch of ideas when it comes to Crafting / Gathering / General Professions, so in no particular order here goes.
How will professional skills be measured in proficiency? IE numerically like WoW 1-Max, or will it be based off a craft mastering level with character stats directly affecting the quality of your crafts?
Will character skills decay over time? -- IE I start out smithing & go to being a scribe, would my gear I put out via smithing after 9 months of inactivity in that skill be the same, or worse than I had created previously?
Will there be mechanics allowing for blending of professions? Examples below:
Skinning + Cooking would increase material yields when gathering and increase food material quality
Inscription + Blacksmith / Woodworking / Masonry / Etc - allow for creation of mana / spell enriched core materials...
-- Ins+Bs = Core part for crafting with skill runes
-- Ins+Wood = Modifications to carriages or other crafts
-- Ins+Masonry = Architecture improvements such as stronger walls, moisture management in farm fields, etc
--Mining+Bs = Better mastery over metals, plus chance of discovering alloys.
--Bs+Manacrafting = Enchanted core equipment pieces, varied depending on type of craft & if Inscription is added to the mix as well.
Will there be crafter guilds?
-- Will we be able to take custom orders handled like quests obtaining Quest rewards such as EXP/Loot
-- Would we get work requests from NPCs & as our name grows work orders from other player(s)
-- Will we be able to tag crafts? Both Crafter Name & Customer name "Easy weapon identification in case of PvP Looting/Theft More later... Sort of a player made BoP"
Will we be capable of performing maintenance on items such as Weapons/Armor/Buildings/Etc, inversely will equipment fail over time
IE weapons dull & after X number of times being repaired/sharpened, break to a point of non repairable states, or if weapons aren't properly maintained would they rust & start to decay stats wise if Blood/Gore is left on the weapons?
Will items be capable of being stolen / looted from corpses?
-- Can we put out bounties on them? -- For example someone steals my sword, I put a bounty out on it, NPCs would refuse purchase of it & flag the selling party as a potential criminal
Will we be able to hire NPCs to take orders to allow our toon continue to work while we're offline?
IE: Player sets aside X allocated resources, and the NPC would sell the available crafts at pre-set prices while you're offline.
Could our character if citizen of a high enough node type be called into action
-- Masons getting the all hands call for wall repairs during/after a siege, leaving the player character exhausted but more proficient in masonry
-- Smiths getting the call to help the army prepare for war
Will crafts require resources outside of what's expected as standard?
-- Stamina, Hunger, Mana, Sanity
-- Time from a different profession NPC
-- Craft Time(s) IE time required by work area X
Sorry, bit rambly & scattered on ideas. :) I'll revisit to cleanup & reorganize soon.
How will professional skills be measured in proficiency? IE numerically like WoW 1-Max, or will it be based off a craft mastering level with character stats directly affecting the quality of your crafts?
Will character skills decay over time? -- IE I start out smithing & go to being a scribe, would my gear I put out via smithing after 9 months of inactivity in that skill be the same, or worse than I had created previously?
Will there be mechanics allowing for blending of professions? Examples below:
Skinning + Cooking would increase material yields when gathering and increase food material quality
Inscription + Blacksmith / Woodworking / Masonry / Etc - allow for creation of mana / spell enriched core materials...
-- Ins+Bs = Core part for crafting with skill runes
-- Ins+Wood = Modifications to carriages or other crafts
-- Ins+Masonry = Architecture improvements such as stronger walls, moisture management in farm fields, etc
--Mining+Bs = Better mastery over metals, plus chance of discovering alloys.
--Bs+Manacrafting = Enchanted core equipment pieces, varied depending on type of craft & if Inscription is added to the mix as well.
Will there be crafter guilds?
-- Will we be able to take custom orders handled like quests obtaining Quest rewards such as EXP/Loot
-- Would we get work requests from NPCs & as our name grows work orders from other player(s)
-- Will we be able to tag crafts? Both Crafter Name & Customer name "Easy weapon identification in case of PvP Looting/Theft More later... Sort of a player made BoP"
Will we be capable of performing maintenance on items such as Weapons/Armor/Buildings/Etc, inversely will equipment fail over time
IE weapons dull & after X number of times being repaired/sharpened, break to a point of non repairable states, or if weapons aren't properly maintained would they rust & start to decay stats wise if Blood/Gore is left on the weapons?
Will items be capable of being stolen / looted from corpses?
-- Can we put out bounties on them? -- For example someone steals my sword, I put a bounty out on it, NPCs would refuse purchase of it & flag the selling party as a potential criminal
Will we be able to hire NPCs to take orders to allow our toon continue to work while we're offline?
IE: Player sets aside X allocated resources, and the NPC would sell the available crafts at pre-set prices while you're offline.
Could our character if citizen of a high enough node type be called into action
-- Masons getting the all hands call for wall repairs during/after a siege, leaving the player character exhausted but more proficient in masonry
-- Smiths getting the call to help the army prepare for war
Will crafts require resources outside of what's expected as standard?
-- Stamina, Hunger, Mana, Sanity
-- Time from a different profession NPC
-- Craft Time(s) IE time required by work area X
Sorry, bit rambly & scattered on ideas. :) I'll revisit to cleanup & reorganize soon.
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Comments
It's decidedly "unfun" for players that aren't really into crafting, but absolutely rewarding for those that are.
I'm not sure if they have plans for this, but have spoken about how it will be all but impractical to have more than 1 Artisan profession of any serious progress.
Every crafter would have varied degrees of proficiency in multiple professions for any craft to be possible...
For example, a good hunter will know how to track/kill their prey, followed by dismantle & process the resource as well as possibly being able to cook the meat & utilize the hide - True not to the same quality as a specialist, but none the less still be able to perform the tasks start to finish.
But, could a player submit a build request for say the top quality 2H axe which would require numerous artisans to pool their efforts by making base components & be assembled at the end?
That brings up a different line of thought...
Say I build a character, absolute top tier skills in metallurgy and blacksmithing, could I hire a crew of NPCs to cover the weak points such as Wood Working, Leather Working, Inscription, Enchanting, etc etc etc to be able to produce the finest crafts in the field of blacksmithy I've focused on.
To keep it balanced, they would have to be paid for production costs "Scaled to NPC Skill & contribution" out of the sale of the craft, possibly with the looming threat of them being capable of being hired by the node for various reasons. So say I take off for X time, I'd basically return to a Dear John letter & have to hire more grunts from the agency.
Pyro411
In regard to your question about decaying artisan skills: I doubt they'll do something that drastic. Ignoring an artisan skill for a significant period of time would make you worse at that skill realistically, but relate artisan class skills to combat class skills and imagine yourself losing stats because you aren't constantly in combat. A system that rewards players for activity is understandable and fair, but a system that punishes players for inactivity seems a tad harsh and would make the game feel less inclusive to the more casual player.
Answering if weapons will require maintenance and fail over time: Yes absolutely, the devs have already mentioned needing to repair items and the chance of items breaking.
Will there be crafting guilds: Yes, there are some already gathering community members in the guild recruitment section!
Looting items from corpses: I think there will be a system to loot corpses for their valuable loot, and personally I believe that makes for a good economy. Artisans need work, and replacing gear means work.
Lethality
As a dedicated artisan I feel comfortable saying the decay system isn't fun for us either. While it does create a more competitive economy at the top level of artisan professions, the impact on the casual players will ultimately be detrimental. Less artisans means less competitive, and I'd rather have more artisans to compete with and a few elitist ones at the top that need to be innovative than less artisans and stiffer competition because of the deeper time sink.
Pyro411
My personal opinions on your second post are as follows :If you want a top tier item made to the best of the item ability it should require multiple artisans. Allowing NPCs to enter the artisan field would be a disservice to the artisans out here struggling to make it in the economy, it also takes a part out of the community if half your crafting is done through a robot. While the devs have slightly touched on workers I would be somewhat upset to see them replacing living workers. We artisans are a proud and competitive bunch, we're blatantly ignored in most modern MMORPGs, and with a game that considers the economy one of the pillars of it's creation I would hope that we get treated better.
Definitely. I can see NPC selling low end parts/gear but anything worth having should be made by players (or found through adventuring).
[quote quote=19645]While the devs have slightly touched on workers I would be somewhat upset to see them replacing living workers.[/quote]
I personally would like to see hire NPC do menial task like gathering crops or mining ore that you have a freehold on. IE they can't leave your freehold. Anything outside the freehold should be commission through players. If not, at least an NPC that will serve as a seller to your goods. So you don't have to constantly stop crafting to talk to someone who wishes to buy a sword. Of course there should be a 'wage' to maintain the NPC otherwise the NPC will 'leave'.
[quote quote=19600]It’s decidedly “unfun” for players that aren’t really into crafting, but absolutely rewarding for those that are.[/quote]
This is true, but I think everyone will agree that it's a requirement to keep crafting relevant in game. As the player base age, if gear was permanent, there would be no need for crafting end game. The price of resource will start to fall as players have their final build. No one will continue to gather or mine because prices are pennies. Any player who dedicated his life to crafting would now have to quit the game or start a combat profession from lvl 1. I never played a MMO that had weapon decay but I understand fundamentally why all the games I've player before never had a strong crafting community.
I remember Steve saying in a Q&A there is no thief mechanic. Goods cannot be stolen.
But there is definitely loot mechanics (from corpse and from caravans).
[quote quote=19582]Will there be crafter guilds?[/quote]
I think the devs would put in the tools to allow for this. All we need are players who want to do it.
[quote quote=19582]Could our character if citizen of a high enough node type be called into action[/quote]
I would think any call for action would be through players to players. Like if a node is being attack, weapons, bows and arrows will be in high demand, making the prices soar. You can either play the market during these times or sell them at discounted prices to help your node survive the attack. I think things like castle walls and defense might be purchasable through a UI of whoever is the current leader, though the types of defense and quality might be based on the crafters who reside in the city? EDIT: also people would probably ask crafters who can repair stay online during sieges (or they just buy several weapons to swap out when they break).
[quote quote=19582]Will there be mechanics allowing for blending of professions? [/quote]
I hope there will be. And from the Q&A it sure sounds like it.
Okay so here goes in no particular order :D
With the looting corpses "I'm assuming looting of player & npc bodies is what you mean" and caravans
-- Craft tagging with Crafter & Customer names prior to transport would definitely help players identify those who PK / Loot the dead for them to put bounties on people
--- Assuming this is the case, a mechanic would have to be put into place for "Shadier" players to sell/reuse said equipment, IE a black market scrubbing service, or a method for a Blacksmith from a rival clan to deconstruct it for rebuild or even overwrite the imprints
Grizzley:
Honestly it wouldn't so much be about replacing players with NPCs outright, but setting a baseline on being able to complete a craft without insane price gouging from certain players in the player base...
For example, I want to build a sword...
I build the sword
Quotes for the Scabbard from active players come in at 9x the cost of the sword
-- Hire a NPC to work in your freehold that can craft it but say at a variable level reduction of quality compared to a player
Quote for the leather wrappings/belt come in at 2x the price of a typical end product
-- Hire another NPC capable of leatherworking
Same for imprinting runes, infusing with mana for enchantments, etc etc etc
Also I'd like it if said hired NPCs would go to work for certain Nodes putting out flavor text on you, essentially advertising your service when they do menial tasks such as making nails, fixing roads/walls, shoeing a horse, and etc...
-- This could happen at the end of a contract, if they get abandoned "Several months of no play", or a city call for X such as repair post war, gearing up for war, etc.
Now for Gear Decay...
I could see this both being hated by certain players, and adding in a powerful mechanic of realism
-- Potential damage to or destruction of X when repaired -- variable dependent on skill level of player/npc doing the repair
-- Potential failure of gear in siege warfare for equipment that's seen weather for a long while without proper upkeep
-- Home/road/city facilities needing repair from environmental hazards and daily wear & tear.
-- Wagons breaking down on long trips if not properly maintained
I'd say some of the above could be covered by NPCs "Purchased services by person or node via taxes" where the rest would require player interaction to do it.
On the "Craftsman Guild"
I was thinking an umbrella "Guild" of representatives staffed by players and augmented by NPCs to help ensure craft to craft quality levels are properly rated and priced to ensure no crafter could outprice someone by taking a 90% hit to their bottom line on one craft to ensure a contract with massive gold, thereby snuffing out competition before new players can even get established in the game.
Other features of the Craftsman Guild
-- Craft requests in the form of Quests
-- Submission of component craft requests
-- Submission of resource gathering requests -- Possibly to be filled by node leadership via Caravans from other nodes
That way, even if I join a friend's "Guild" while very active that has 5 players I'm not so far out of league with a semi active member of a HUGE guild.
More to come but for now I gotta run.
In response to your idea that the gatherer and processor can charge you 9x and 2x the material and processing cost of the final product: if your prices are netting you a loss as an artisan you're pricing your product too low or you have some very poor agreements with your suppliers. Economies, like governments, have systems to check and balance themselves. The gatherer cannot over-charge the supplier because the supplier has options to: find other gatherers with lower prices, begin gathering for themselves, develop a new product, ect. Processors cannot over-charge crafters because the crafters can: Find a better price for refined materials, refine the materials themselves, develop new product, ect. In addition: any artisan of the three branches has the option to refuse to sell at a bad price. While the market is competitive and you're constantly trying to out-do the income of other artisans, if the artisans as a whole are not making enough money they can, and will, put a limit on the quantity of goods supplied. Players control demand, but artisans control supply. Anyone who has studied economics knows that at a basic level you find a balance of the two to get a price, and artisans have the ability to create artificial scarcity. I wouldn't worry to much about getting the bad end of deals, focus on establishing good relationships with your fellow artisans and your experience will likely be positive in the end.